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Sport Or Game


Googling Hrpty Hrrs
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If Geocaching is a sport there would be lots of rules.  There would be a national organization to interpret and enforce those rules.  We would need to be drug tested once a year. There would be cameras in the trees watching our every move and commentators telling the masses how we are screwing up this one by turning over rocks when we should be looking under logs.  We would spike that old ammo can into the dirt after we find it, spewing the contents all over the woods. If it was a sport, we would be looking for an edge to win every game.  To beat everyone else to the cache, to get more caches than anyone else in a day... in a lifetime.  People would claim caches they have not found or maybe not even attempted to find in order to win each game, to be the champion of this sport. No this isn't a sport or a game.. not here anyway.. with me it is just a relaxing hobby that borders on an obsession.  :lol:

You seem to be arguing with the definition of sport. You're not alone there. Actually a lot of the things in your list are true. Some more so than others, and some only for certain people. You were never ever even tempted to do a fist pump after finding a difficult cache? You said the operative words, "with me it is..." That doesn't change what it is to anyone else.

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Not a sport or a game, because I'm not competing against anyone. Being a sport concludes some sort of "winning" conditions. There are none with geocaching.

 

The only real difference between a game and a sport is that a sport is at least a phyical activity (whereas a game can be a solely mental activity).

 

I consider it hobby, a definition geocaching fits nicely and perfectly into.

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The word "sport" doesn't always mean competitive. It's a common falsehood.

Sure, the dictionary will use the term "generally competitive" in defining sport, but they're really just being open-ended in the event some non-competitive sport is dreamed up by someone.

 

Since you're so sure that sport needn't be competitive, perhaps you could list a couple of these non-competitive sports. Maybe you know something the rest of us don't? If there are non-competitive sports I'd love to learn about them.

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Sure, the dictionary will use the term "generally competitive" in defining sport, but they're really just being open-ended in the event some non-competitive sport is dreamed up by someone.

 

Since you're so sure that sport needn't be competitive, perhaps you could list a couple of these non-competitive sports. Maybe you know something the rest of us don't? If there are non-competitive sports I'd love to learn about them.

Sorry old sport. There's actually no mention of competition in the Merriam-Webster's dictionary.

 

Hunting and fishing are two sports. They don't have to be competitive to be called sport.

 

Why are you being such a poor sport about it?

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Would anyone consider they are "playing games" when they are geocaching? Are you "playing games" when you are hiking or sightseeing? Playing games when you are doing geneology research, crypto analysis, or pondering riddles?

 

If it has to be either one or the other, it'd have to "sport." Like "sport fishing" where you are fishing for the sport of it, geocaching is an activity you do for the recreation.

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Hunting and fishing are two sports. They don't have to be competitive to be called sport.

There are competitive components to both those activities. Ever watch your cable sports channel and catch those bass fishing competitions?

 

Hunting and fishing were recreational activities until someone figured out how to turn them into competitions, at which point they were coined sports.

 

;)

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If Geocaching is a sport there would be lots of rules.  There would be a national organization to interpret and enforce those rules.  We would need to be drug tested once a year. There would be cameras in the trees watching our every move and commentators telling the masses how we are screwing up this one by turning over rocks when we should be looking under logs.  We would spike that old ammo can into the dirt after we find it, spewing the contents all over the woods. If it was a sport, we would be looking for an edge to win every game.  To beat everyone else to the cache, to get more caches than anyone else in a day... in a lifetime.  People would claim caches they have not found or maybe not even attempted to find in order to win each game, to be the champion of this sport. No this isn't a sport or a game.. not here anyway.. with me it is just a relaxing hobby that borders on an obsession.  ;)

You seem to be arguing with the definition of sport. You're not alone there. Actually a lot of the things in your list are true. Some more so than others, and some only for certain people. You were never ever even tempted to do a fist pump after finding a difficult cache? You said the operative words, "with me it is..." That doesn't change what it is to anyone else.

Exactly.. not trying to change anyone... just expressing an opinion and making some observations.

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Check out Find Counts=Status? and Scoring your finds.

 

I think somebody has figured out how to turn geocaching into a competition!

Since there are no hard and fast rules on how to score finds and since so many people "cheat", the find count is not a useful metric for competition. ;)

How about we use Terracaching as an example instead? It's been going pretty good over there.

 

FTF's and such are another method of compitition.

 

Otherwise, I don't recall that quality metrics are required, just metrics.

 

Another way to look at it. How many skiers and ice skaters do it competitively? Swimming?

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Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable?

 

The confusion about 'fruit' and 'vegetable' arises because of the differences in usage between scientists and cooks. Scientifically speaking, a tomato is definitely a fruit.  .....  As far as cooking is concerned, some things which are strictly fruits may be called 'vegetables' because they are used in savoury rather than sweet cooking.

 

I finally get it.

 

(source)

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Since there are no hard and fast rules on how to score finds and since so many people "cheat", the find count is not a useful metric for competition. :huh:

Interesting. You declare geocaching is a non-competitive hobby. Yet people cheat at it. How do you cheat at a hobby? And if it's non-competitive why would you? I think we have another case of confusing what something is with one persons relationship to it.

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I consider it an "activity". If you play a sport or game you win, lose, or tie.

 

Until you define those ends..... as it related to Geocaching then it is an activity.... or hobby... or "JUST PLAIN FUN"

So in your book chess, checkers and backgammon are sports, while swimming, running and skiing aren't and tennis isn't if you aren't keeping score.

Edited by briansnat
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Hunting and fishing are two sports. They don't have to be competitive to be called sport.

There are competitive components to both those activities. Ever watch your cable sports channel and catch those bass fishing competitions?

 

Hunting and fishing were recreational activities until someone figured out how to turn them into competitions, at which point they were coined sports.

 

:huh:

Actually I believe hunting and fishing were probably somewhat competitive before they were recreational activities. In fact, I doubt your assertion there was a time they weren't competitive. It seems to me the addition of rules is what made them sports. Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, the definition of sport.

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Since you're so sure that sport needn't be competitive, perhaps you could list a couple of these non-competitive sports. Maybe you know something the rest of us don't? If there are non-competitive sports I'd love to learn about them.

 

Skiing

Swimming

Running

Snowboarding

Fishing

Hunting

Mountain Biking

Surfing

Sailboarding

Roller blading/skating

Ice skating

Shooting

Skateboarding

Archery

Kayaking

Frisbee

Backpacking

Hiking

Cycling

Geocaching

 

While most of the above can be and are practiced competetively, the overwhelming majority of the participants in these sports do not compete. Yet they are sports because, 1-You buy equipment for these sports in sporting goods stores, or the sports section of department stores (except perhaps Frisbee). 2-You read about them in the sports section of the newspaper. 3-You will find books about them in the sports shelves in your local bookstore, and most importantly, 4-They fit the definition of sport as posted by the OP, in Merriam-Webster online, in Dictionary.com, in Cambridge Dictionary-Online, in Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, in the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language and in the Oxford American Dictionary (as well as others I'm sure).

 

You are free to make up your own definition for any word that exists. It doesn't mean you are right though.

Edited by briansnat
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The word "sport" doesn't always mean competitive. It's a common falsehood.

Sure, the dictionary will use the term "generally competitive" in defining sport, but they're really just being open-ended in the event some non-competitive sport is dreamed up by someone.

...

That's a good one. You don't think a certain definition should apply so you claim the definition doesn't mean what it says?

 

I'm pretty sure what they're getting at is that when you call something a sport that doesn't mean it has to done competitively at all times. Now, is someone still claiming geocaching has no competitive aspect?

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Since there are no hard and fast rules on how to score finds and since so many people "cheat", the find count is not a useful metric for competition. :huh:

Interesting. You declare geocaching is a non-competitive hobby. Yet people cheat at it. How do you cheat at a hobby? And if it's non-competitive why would you? I think we have another case of confusing what something is with one persons relationship to it.

That's why I put the word cheat in quotes. Just to symbolize that there are as many rules to logging caches as there are caches. If "everyone plays their own way" then it can hardly be a sport. There would need to be some clearly defined and adopted rules before that could occur.

 

Geocaching is a recreational activity. It is a hobby. It is not a sport. Hide and Go Seek isn't a sport. And neither is hiking. Geocaching is simply a combination of the two activities.

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Skiing

Swimming

Running

Snowboarding

Fishing

Hunting

Mountain Biking

Surfing

Sailboarding

Roller blading/skating

Ice skating

Shooting

Skateboarding

Archery

Kayaking

Frisbee

Cycling

All those are recreational activities, only when indulged in a particular manner and for competitive purposes are you engaging in a sport.

 

Going for a Christmas skate on the pond, you could hardly say you were engaging in the sport of ice skating. Heading to the rink to practice your triple cow-tows, you could say you were involved in the sport.

 

Backpacking

Hiking

Geocaching

None of which are sports. Recreational activities, sure. How many times, when asked what you did on your weekend, have you replied: "I was engaged in the sport of hiking!"

Edited by dogbreathcanada
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And neither is hiking.

 

They why do they sell hiking boots in sporting good stores and the sports section of department stores and why do articles about hiking appear in the sports section of my local newspaper?

 

From Cambridge Dictionary online:

Sport-2 all types of physical activity which people do to keep healthy or for enjoyment:

 

From Merriam-Webster online:

Sport- 1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION. c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure.

 

From Dictionary.com:

Sport - 2- An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

3-An active pastime; recreation.

 

Encarta World English Dictionary:

Sport- 2. pastime: an active pastime participated in for pleasure or exercise

 

American Heritage Dictionary:

Sport - 3. An active pastime; recreation.

 

Infoplease Dictionary:

Sport- 3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.

 

Websters Revised Unabridge Dictionary (1913 edition):

Sport- That which diverts, and makes mirth; pastime; amusement.

 

The WordSmyth Dictionary:

Sport-2. to amuse oneself through recreation or other activity; play.

 

The Online Etymology Dictionary:

Sport-sport (v.) c.1400, "to take pleasure, to amuse oneself," from Anglo-Fr. disport, from O.Fr. desport "pastime, recreation, pleasure," from desporter "to divert, amuse, please, play" (see disport). Sense of "to amuse oneself by active exercise in open air or taking part in some game" is from c.1483. Meaning "to wear" is from 1778.

sport

 

(n.) c.1440, "pleasant passtime," from sport (v.). Meaning "game involving physical exercise" first recorded 1523.

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None of which are sports. Recreational activities, sure. How many times, when asked what you did on your weekend, have you replied: "I was engaged in the sport of hiking!"

 

Nor do I say "I engaged in the recreational activity of hiking". :huh:

 

All those are recreational activities, only when indulged in a particular manner and for competitive purposes are you engaging in a sport.

 

Duh. One of the main definitions of sport IS "recreational activity". Man some people are...oops gottas remember the forum guidelines.

Edited by briansnat
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One of the main definitions of sport IS "recreational activity".

They're not mutually inclusive, though.

 

Hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself, believing you're engaged in a sport, then by all means believe it. :huh: Whatever gets you off the couch. Right?

 

I play a lot of different sports (squash, tennis, softball), so I don't have to pretend that geocaching is another sport I engage in. It's a hobby of mine. An activity I enjoy.

 

As Wikipedia states, the ongoing "Is it a sport?" debate will forever rage. :huh:

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They why do they sell hiking boots in sporting good stores and the sports section of department stores and why do articles about hiking appear in the sports section of my local newspaper?

Because it's convenient? More convenient than starting a chain of "Recreational Activity " stores or sections in department stores.

 

I'd gather they do it for the same reason they sell soy milk in the dairy section. You're not going to claim that soy milk is dairy now, are you?

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Several of the previous definitions were the secondary ones provided by those dictionaries.

 

From Cambridge Dictionary online:

sport (GAME) noun 1 [C] a game, competition or activity needing physical effort and skill that is played or done according to rules, for enjoyment and/or as a job:

 

From Dictionary.com:

sport Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. A. A particular form of this activity.

 

Encarta World English Dictionary:

sport

noun (plural sports)

Definitions:

1. competitive physical activity: an individual or group competitive activity involving physical exertion or skill, governed by rules, and sometimes engaged in professionally

 

American Heritage Dictionary:

1a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. b. A particular form of this activity.

 

Infoplease Dictionary:

an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

 

Of course the English language is hard to nail down, but for me the difference comes down to "competition." The three groups seem to be: 1.) Hobby, leisure-time activity folks, 2.) Competitive, governed by rules or guidelines 3.) Depends on what day of the week you catch me on!

 

:huh:

Edited by Googling Hrpty Hrrs
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Hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself, believing you're engaged in a sport, then by all means believe it

 

Its not a matter of feeling better about myself or what I believe. Its a matter of what the facts are.

 

Hey if you want to walk around with your personal dictionary that is at odds with every other dictionary in existence, then by all means do it.

 

Several of the previous definitions were the secondary ones provided by those dictionaries.

 

They are not secondary definitions, they are different definitions. Many words have a number of definitions and in most cases one is no more or less correct than others.

Edited by briansnat
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They why do they sell hiking boots in sporting good stores and the sports section of department stores and why do articles about hiking appear in the sports section of my local newspaper?

Because it's convenient? More convenient than starting a chain of "Recreational Activity " stores or sections in department stores.

 

I'd gather they do it for the same reason they sell soy milk in the dairy section. You're not going to claim that soy milk is dairy now, are you?

They could just sell hiking boots alongside the regular shoes. Oh, and my supermarket sells soy milk in the heath foods aisle.

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Several of the previous definitions were the secondary ones provided by those dictionaries.

 

They are not secondary definitions, they are different definitions. Many words have a number of definitions and in most cases one is no more or less correct than others.

 

Dictionaries list alternate definitions in order of most common use. I was just stating that many of the ones you highlighted were the second or third definitions provided for the word.

 

As I said, the English language is hard to nail down! The key to this conversation is not whether there's alternate definitions- it's how do you define the sport, game, hobby, activity, madness, etc for yourself.

 

:huh:

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it's how do you define the sport, game, hobby, activity, madness, etc for yourself.

It is what it is. Semantics aside, our "activity" can be all things to all people, thus wildly popular. Witness these forums, a free and open exchange of ideas. Do labels matter? A rose by any other name . . .

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If you base Geocaching on a "definition", it's both sport and game. But I prefer "hobby" or "recreation". I also combine geocaching with other things I do, like camping, hiking, and mountain biking.

I think everyone looks at geocaching differently, and it means different things to different people. You get out of it, what you put into it, or at least what you perceive.

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Since there are no hard and fast rules on how to score finds and since so many people "cheat", the find count is not a useful metric for competition. :(

Interesting. You declare geocaching is a non-competitive hobby. Yet people cheat at it. How do you cheat at a hobby? And if it's non-competitive why would you? I think we have another case of confusing what something is with one persons relationship to it.

That's why I put the word cheat in quotes. Just to symbolize that there are as many rules to logging caches as there are caches. If "everyone plays their own way" then it can hardly be a sport. There would need to be some clearly defined and adopted rules before that could occur.

 

Geocaching is a recreational activity. It is a hobby. It is not a sport. Hide and Go Seek isn't a sport. And neither is hiking. Geocaching is simply a combination of the two activities.

Putting quotes around "cheat" when you realized you'd just lost your own argument as soon as you wrote that word didn't change the outcome. The definition of sport does not require there be only one set of rules. Notice the definition even says "or customs" which would be even looser than rules. Do you claim geocaching doesn't even have customs?

 

When you play softball do you use exactly the same rules as everyone else? If someone used different rules would they not be playing softball? Or would it suddenly become "not a sport"? I can't believe I would need to ask these questions, but it is a very strange world you live in where how many other "sports" you play would effect whether you think geocaching is one.

 

Combining multiple recreational activities (throw/hit/run, pass/punt/tackle, hike/hide/seek) and adding some rules/customs is exactly how most sports came to be. You might want to argue geocaching is a poorly run or immature sport, but that's different than "not a sport".

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When you play softball do you use exactly the same rules as everyone else? If someone used different rules would they not be playing softball? Or would it suddenly become "not a sport"?

 

Nice analogy. Lets see. There is fast pitch softball, high arc softall, modified arc softball, three very different games. Some leagues use a standard ball, some use a restricted flight flight ball. Some use a 12 inch ball, some use a 11.5 inch ball.

 

Most leagues allow 10 players on defense, while high school (at least in NJ) only allows 9.

 

One league I was in allowed unlimited DH's so everyone on the bench could bat but only 10 could play the field. Most others only allow the 10 players on the field to bat while some allow 1 extra hitter.

 

Some ban double wall bats while others don't. I've even been in leagues where there were different rules depending on your sex.

 

One league I played in required that players slide if there is a play being made on them. Another pick up league that I play in bans sliding and every play is a "force play" so there is no tagging. There are even separate 1st base and home plates for the fielders and runners to use. Yet score is kept, there are winners and losers, people play hard, make great plays and errors, just like any other version of the sport.

Edited by briansnat
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sport    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (spôrt, sprt)

n.

 

1

 

    a  Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

 

    b A particular form of this activity.

 

2  An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

 

3  An active pastime; recreation.

 

It falls into the 3rd definition of the word sport.

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sport    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (spôrt, sprt)

n.

 

1

 

    a  Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

 

    b A particular form of this activity.

 

2  An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

 

3  An active pastime; recreation.

 

It falls into the 3rd definition of the word sport.

That #3 is a pretty broad definition. Sport of gardening, sport of cabinetmaking, sport of traveling, sport of hiking, sport of birding, sport of wine tasting, sport of walking the dog, sport of shopping, sport of bar hopping, and I'm not even going to get started on all the "collegiate sports" that went on in the old frat house a bunch of years ago.... ESPN needs about 15 more channels....

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