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Jeremy

Fake Loggin Travel Bugs

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Or she could be one of those fabled 'work spouses'. You know, you sit close to them day in/day out, and by proximity they become the work spouse, since you spend more time around them than your own real one at home.

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Or she could be one of those fabled 'work spouses'. You know, you sit close to them day in/day out, and by proximity they become the work spouse, since you spend more time around them than your own real one at home.

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I guess this kind of ties in with the beef I have about people who go to cache events and grab the tracking number of a jeep tb, coin or some such other item and then log a find for it. They are not moving the item and may have only handled it for a few seconds. In my mind there is something inherently wrong with this scenario. It just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game.

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As a fervent geocoin freak -- I would hate to see the logging of virtuals ruin the fun. It's pretty sad and pathetic when folks start logging things they haven't actually seen.

 

I do like folks logging coins at events -- as long as the coin is, in fact, seen/held/etc. They have interacted with the item at a superficial level to be sure, but it is sometimes the only way to see/hold/touch these items.

 

If someone virtually logged my Travel Bug/Coin I would, as the owner, delete the entry. trying to centrally administer this would likely require a very restrictive policy that would remove more fun than create complience/enforcement.

 

Travel Bugs and Coins are a fun add-on to the hobby.

Edited by Lemon Fresh Dog
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Instead of letting that $7 or whatever it was be forever gone I turned it into a virtual.

 

I think a better solution is to "relaunch" the missing TB with a duplicate tag. That way you haven't lost the cost of the TB and the miles continue (legitimately).

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Instead of letting that $7 or whatever it was be forever gone I turned it into a virtual.

 

I think a better solution is to "relaunch" the missing TB with a duplicate tag. That way you haven't lost the cost of the TB and the miles continue (legitimately).

I don't think coins HAVE duplicates... TBs, yes, coins no. I could be mistaken of course, as I own no coins.

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...

carefull... be VERY careful :P:D:D:D:D

Why--are you the wife in question? :D

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Just like when I first seen this topic this morning, I went into my bug page and took out everything "virtual" and references to the bug number.

Your coin's been locked... I was going to do a test log to it.

 

You missed the following on your stats page:

Help put some miles on our Virtual USA Geocoin #xxxxxx!!!
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Seems like there is a lot of confusion about what a "virtual" travel bug is.

 

Virtual travel bugs started out with some neat ideas. The travel bug owner would have a goal for the travel bug and would either post the travel bug tag number on the travel bug page or give out the number to whomever asked so that they could grab the bug without ever physically seeing it and log it in a cache consistent with its goal. I have logged one virtual travel bug; that one wanted to be logged into a the cacher's favorite cache. Today this would be better served using bookmark list rather than travel bugs.

 

After a few of these appeared, people would start turning their missing travel bugs into virtual ones. This was similar to the practice of turning missing geocaches into virtual caches (which was stopped by not allowing users to change the cache type once a cache is approved). The justification was "since I spent $6 on the tags, I'm going to get my money's worth by keeping it alive as a virtual".

 

With the separate icons for geocoins as well as the Jeep travel bugs, some people decided it was a service to the geocaching community to publish tracking numbers for various coins and Jeeps so that people who wanted an icon could log these. In some cases the numbers were supplied were the owners of the travel bugs in questions, but in other cases this was done with somebody else travel bug with or without the owner's permission.

 

Another abuse is where a person (usually accidentally or because they are unaware of the potential abuse) posts the tracking number in a log or it is shown in a photo. I don't understand why people log these - perhaps because they want to be the leader in most travel bugs found - but then it would be sort of like posting finds for caches you've never been to.

 

There are geocachers who go to events and write down the travel bug tracking numbers so they can log the bug or coin. Their intent is to log it out and back into the event, but often the bug has moved from the event by the time they log and so they wind up grabbing the bug from wherever it is to log it. So you see people logging travel bugs out of cache that you know they never went to. Perhaps the proposed "spotted" log type will solve this problem. I don't consider these to be virtual travel bugs.

 

Personal travel bugs that a person holds on to and logs in and out of caches they visit and geocoin collectors that allow people to log the coins they take to events are not virtual travel bugs.

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Instead of letting that $7 or whatever it was be forever gone I turned it into a virtual.

 

I think a better solution is to "relaunch" the missing TB with a duplicate tag. That way you haven't lost the cost of the TB and the miles continue (legitimately).

What good would that do? The duplicate tags have the same tracking number. Now you've got two bugs in one--a virtual and a real one.

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...Personal travel bugs that a person holds on to and logs in and out of caches they visit and geocoin collectors that allow people to log the coins they take to events are not virtual travel bugs.

Thank you for the thoughful summary.

 

I think that last line clears most of the questions up.

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You missed the following on your stats page:
Help put some miles on our Virtual USA Geocoin #xxxxxx!!!

Forgot all about that one, thanks. I'll go remove it right now. :P

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Let me see if I have this right.

Sorry to hear that. Some people need to get a life. What is the definition of a virtual tb or geocoin. Just asking to try and understand. I have some ideas and just want to make sure I am within the guide lines. Thanks Russ

Case One

I have a Tb or Geocoin. I take it to events with me. If people come up and ask to see it and I give them the number would this be ok?

 

Case two

I have a cache. If you find the cache I have a Tb or Geocoin number listed in the container. You can log it. Will this work?

 

Case three

Im sure this is ok but wanted to throw it out there anyways. You make a copy of a geocoin have it laminated send it out that way. Sure this is ok but like I said just throwing it out there.

 

Case four

Back to the event thing. I was thinking of taking a TB and taking it and cutting it in half. Give half to my wife and the other half I would have. To log it you need to talk to us both.

Just doing a quote to maybe get my questions answered before it gets lost in the post. Thanks Russ

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Just to make sure that I understand are you saying that if someone's TB becomes a virtual TB by no fault of their own (ie your wife) you are blocking their bug from being logged? This seems as though you are taking back something you sold to them, I personally think you should have to prove that the owner is the one that made it into a virtual bug or send the owner a new TB tag so that they do not lose out in the money they spent on it.

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Whilst the logging of virtuals is obviously frowned upon I would be sad to see the discussions held at

Logging at meets

 

not to come to fruition due to a careless or vindictive log on one individuals TB Tag

 

Bob

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Virtual travel bugs and coins are not the same as travel bugs and coins that are "spotted" at events. Two different animals. Only the former is being hunted and shot.

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Case One

I have a Tb or Geocoin. I take it to events with me. If people come up and ask to see it and I give them the number would this be ok?

I think that would be fine. For example, at one event I've been to everybody who went got some of the geocoin numbers, but instead of turning them into virtuals and "dropping" them off somewhere else, we dropped them off at the event so they didn't log any fake miles. Plus, the tracking # is only available to the people at the event.

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Instead of letting that $7 or whatever it was be forever gone I turned it into a virtual.

 

I think a better solution is to "relaunch" the missing TB with a duplicate tag. That way you haven't lost the cost of the TB and the miles continue (legitimately).

I don't think coins HAVE duplicates... TBs, yes, coins no. I could be mistaken of course, as I own no coins.

True, the coins don't come with duplicates -- but you can make one easily enough. We have one coin, and if/when it disappears, I was going to make another one out of Sculpey clay (with the same tracking # on it) and release it. But if you don't want to put that much effort into it, you could just laminate a picture of a coin and send that out as a replacement. Or write the coin's tracking number on a wooden nickel or poker chip. (It'll probably last longer than the original did.)

 

You bought the number, you own the number, even if someone steals the coin.

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Many are asking, so I'll try to clear this up once and for all. What is not allowed is the Virtual TB or Virtual Coin. By virtual we mean there is no physical bug/coin. It's still sitting home in a drawer, so it doesn't go lost, but someone passes out the number or displays it right on the page so any Tom, Dick or Harriet can log it anywhere they please, without ever having visited the cache or touched or even seen the bug/coin. Or the TB got lost, picked up, not moved, stolen, pilfered, pillaged, washed away, whatever and the owner turns it into a virtual bug, when what they should have done was send out the copy tag, or kiss that bug goodbye. Making it an invisible, non-existant thing is what we consider abuse of the system. Virtual geocoins for the sake of letting someone get another icon really isn't fair to those who get them in the honest, hard-caching manner. We do it the old fashioned way, we earn it!

 

Travel bugs or coins that you carry on your person and log into and out of caches to keep track of your miles are allowed. Travel bugs/coins that you carry with you to events and oh so nicely share the number with others :P are allowed. Leaving a number in a cache for others to write down is just silly, and ought not be allowed, they never see the item.

 

In regards to Russell53040's post:

Case One

I have a Tb or Geocoin. I take it to events with me. If people come up and ask to see it and I give them the number would this be ok?

Allowed

 

Case two

I have a cache. If you find the cache I have a Tb or Geocoin number listed in the container. You can log it. Will this work?

 

Why? More numbers? Another icon? What's the purpose, they don't see it, touch, feel it, don't even get to look at it. Silly idea, forget about it, it's the same as a virtual.

 

Case three

Im sure this is ok but wanted to throw it out there anyways. You make a copy of a geocoin have it laminated send it out that way. Sure this is ok but like I said just throwing it out there.

 

Yes, it's allowable.

 

Case four

Back to the event thing. I was thinking of taking a TB and taking it and cutting it in half. Give half to my wife and the other half I would have. To log it you need to talk to us both.

 

Allowed, it's your coin, but then again, why? What happens if there's a divorce? :D

 

I hope this explains it clearly enough. It has to be tangible to be logged.

 

(coin is just icon spelled wrong :D or vice versa)

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i just checked on a virtual coin i know of...it is still open for logging.

 

it seems that there should be a check system in place that would analyze TB and Coin pages looking for absurd travels (several countries in the same date, or racking up impossible miles in a 24 hour period). This would then be a 'new geocaching.com position'. all TBs/Coins that "throw up the red flag" and this position will approve the transaction(s) or lock the logging.

 

note: i have no experience with logging things at meets. it seems to me that if a TB/Coin is going to be logged as a visit (spot?)--not a drop or pickup--would the 'presenter' not have it in their inventory, and then the first logger would grab it, retaining it in their inventory until the next logger grabs it. this would eliminate the need to drop it somewhere--being a 'rookie' what if i drop it in the wrong place in the owner's eyes or retain it as above. then after the presenter decides that all logs are posted, grab it back.

 

can TBs not borrow from Waymarking, and get a VISIT. if i see it, feel it, touch it, and get the # for it, did we not visit?

 

why would you want to log all the TBs at a meet? just the ones you trade would be fine. coins are another story, i would want to log as many as i could--yes i like the icons. i have just found a jeep (2004), and therefore don't fully get them yet, and don't understand why people keep them and take them to events for mass logging. i thought you found it, did some tasks (to enter the contest), and left it somewhere. is that not what caching is about--finding things?

 

maybe "personal" TBs and Coins, we all have them, could get a special icon. i have laminated all of my coins so far--except the personals--and plan on releasing them. but if i take my personal coin(s) to a meet for people to "spot/visit", it would be obvious they did not find it in a cache.

 

i have been to quite a few caches in the area that 'had a coin'--they are still in there too--but it had been abducted. i guess cachers see the coin on the site, and go get it. what is the point of having a coin that was stolen (or a travel bug)? is it really that great of a toy that you steal it, and it 'dies'. i just released some TBs, none have been picked up yet (?), and i have coins too--1 has been moved. so are the thiefs going to steal my laminated pieces of paper, out of greed or spite, or will they move them on like sensible cachers would [move the REAL coins]? I, personally, never feel that the REAL coins will ever be safe in caches--maybe the USA ones since there are "enough" out there.

 

As a collectable coin--they will always be colleced. imagine a cacher in 50 years finding a 2005 moun10bike (sorry if i messed it up) in a cache. the tough thing is assigning a value on them. currency is related to it's face value, year of manufacture, and number minted. Geocoins do not have a face value, and there are so many variations of the other variables it is insane.

 

QUOTE (russell_53040 @ Dec 7 2005, 06:43 PM)

Case One

I have a Tb or Geocoin. I take it to events with me. If people come up and ask to see it and I give them the number would this be ok?

 

seems to be common practice.

 

Case two

I have a cache. If you find the cache I have a Tb or Geocoin number listed in the container. You can log it. Will this work?

 

why would you do this?

 

Case three

Im sure this is ok but wanted to throw it out there anyways. You make a copy of a geocoin have it laminated send it out that way. Sure this is ok but like I said just throwing it out there.

 

i do this in the hopes that my coins will travel, and in they event that they are stolen, i can send out "version 2.0" and so on, until i die. if enough people started doing this, the thiefs would not 'know where to look' and might cease their activity. once the thefts are 'eradicated' us cachers could start releasing the real ones (sparingly) so that they are hidden amongst the fake ones.

 

Case four

Back to the event thing. I was thinking of taking a TB and taking it and cutting it in half. Give half to my wife and the other half I would have. To log it you need to talk to us both.

 

sounds like a great idea. i think i will have to do that. in order to log "ChapterhouseInc" you have to meet both of us.

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Many are asking, so I'll try to clear this up once and for all. What is not allowed is the Virtual TB or Virtual Coin. By virtual we mean there is no physical bug/coin. It's still sitting home in a drawer, so it doesn't go lost, but someone passes out the number or displays it right on the page so any Tom, Dick or Harriet can log it anywhere they please, without ever having visited the cache or touched or even seen the bug/coin. Or the TB got lost, picked up, not moved, stolen, pilfered, pillaged, washed away, whatever and the owner turns it into a virtual bug, when what they should have done was send out the copy tag, or kiss that bug goodbye. Making it an invisible, non-existant thing is what we consider abuse of the system. Virtual geocoins for the sake of letting someone get another icon really isn't fair to those who get them in the honest, hard-caching manner. We do it the old fashioned way, we earn it!

 

Travel bugs or coins that you carry on your person and log into and out of caches to keep track of your miles are allowed. Travel bugs/coins that you carry with you to events and oh so nicely share the number with others :D are allowed. Leaving a number in a cache for others to write down is just silly, and ought not be allowed, they never see the item.

 

In regards to Russell53040's post:

Case One

I have a Tb or Geocoin. I take it to events with me. If people come up and ask to see it and I give them the number would this be ok?

Allowed

 

Case two

I have a cache. If you find the cache I have a Tb or Geocoin number listed in the container. You can log it. Will this work?

 

Why? More numbers? Another icon? What's the purpose, they don't see it, touch, feel it, don't even get to look at it. Silly idea, forget about it, it's the same as a virtual.

 

Case three

Im sure this is ok but wanted to throw it out there anyways. You make a copy of a geocoin have it laminated send it out that way. Sure this is ok but like I said just throwing it out there.

 

Yes, it's allowable.

 

Case four

Back to the event thing. I was thinking of taking a TB and taking it and cutting it in half. Give half to my wife and the other half I would have. To log it you need to talk to us both.

 

Allowed, it's your coin, but then again, why? What happens if there's a divorce? :D

 

I hope this explains it clearly enough. It has to be tangible to be logged.

 

(coin is just icon spelled wrong :D or vice versa)

Thanks for clearing this up. For what would happen if we got divorced I would give the other half to the new wife silly :P

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I posted this in the geocoins forum and I want to post it here too:

My solution to preventing vitrual logging just to get the icon in your profile is: change the profile appearance to a one that would show ALL the icons on both found/own sides of EVERYONE'S profile. Only the ones that you haven't found/owned yet, would have a zero next to them. :P

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They do charge for the icon.

 

Yeah. but in the bulk quantity of 150 bucks or something.

or something???

 

I'm not sure what you get for the money, but I heard $1700 for 1000 coins. Trackable, unique icon, gc logo on coin??? What would one get for this price?

 

-- on topic

I try to play cleanly. I think I have three virtual bug logs. That being said:

 

There's lots of crap going on in here. Weenies stealing tbs, coins and caches, logging virtual finds and bug (coins) from their couch.

 

I get pissed when some muggle goes through the trouble of setting up an account and logs that he has my tb and never plays again. Prolly opens a new account for every steal.

 

-- off topic --

I don't understand why non paying members have access to the forums and are allowed to place hides. To me these are services that you should pay for.

 

If the servers handle all the waste in (off topic) forums and the non-member logs taking up space, then how are virtual tbs so evil? Because a coin gets twenty hits at an event? It sits at the owners desk til the next event.

 

--back on topic

I'm sorry Jeremy ('s wife) had a weenie step on a tb. I've only been here for 9 months and have had to deal with it a few times already. I agree, it's VERY frustrating!!! Move the tb to unknown - kill it off the tables and release another one. (scream Serenity Now!!!)

 

btw, how are the servers handling all the recent log deletions?

 

CinCT

Still learning what this geochaching phenom is all about.

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If the servers handle all the waste in (off topic) forums and the non-member logs taking up space, then how are virtual tbs so evil? Because a coin gets twenty hits at an event? It sits at the owners desk til the next event.

The forums run on a different server. Irrelevant. Many people find that the OT forum helps build a sense of community among fellow geocachers. That's a good thing.

 

Also, forum posts aren't compiled into a complex database with bajillions of queries hitting the webservers 24/7. It's rare that we get a slowdown here in the forums, although I've noticed a few recently. Maybe if we locked down the geocoin forum, the load would ease up.

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If the servers handle all the waste in (off topic) forums and the non-member logs taking up space, then how are virtual tbs so evil? Because a coin gets twenty hits at an event? It sits at the owners desk til the next event.

Who said anything about server issues? This is a social one not a technical one. Yes you did stick it in your off topic rant but do me a favor and not post off topic rants because, duh, it's off topic. But it's still wrong so it should be addressed.

 

Posting that a travel bug is in a cache when it is not is bad. mmkay? It makes people go out and try to find the travel bug that isn't there. It's irresponsible and abusive.

 

Please leave "grabbing" and "dropping" travel bugs found at an event out of this topic. I feel like a broken record but the OP was about logging fake movements of travel bugs. We're already discussing a "spotted" log type for replacing the unnecessary recycling of travel bugs in the same cache just to get that pretty icon on your profile.

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Case twoI have a cache. If you find the cache I have a Tb or Geocoin number listed in the container. You can log it. Will this work?

 

Why? More numbers? Another icon? What's the purpose, they don't see it, touch, feel it, don't even get to look at it. Silly idea, forget about it, it's the same as a virtual.

 

Case three

Im sure this is ok but wanted to throw it out there anyways. You make a copy of a geocoin have it laminated send it out that way. Sure this is ok but like I said just throwing it out there.

 

Yes, it's allowable.

 

The only difference between these two scenarios is, wait, there is no difference.

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I hear you loud n clear.

 

I agree with your position on Virtual TBs. This just another bent rule that has to stop. My previous post wasn't very clear. There are buttheads in and around our activity that get off by rocking the boat.

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There's not much more to rant about, so I'll lock my own ranting thread.

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