Bomb Squad Friendly Containers

[+FASTFRANK&WANDA]

Recently my Mini Geo-Spyglass cache (GCQ3KO) was found by a muggle and reported to the police. Because of the police policy, any unidentified object must be treated like a bomb. The cache was identified, but because of the way it had slipped from its original hiding spot and wedged itself against an i beam, the identification was not visible to the officers. The cache was a tiny black plastic tool box with a cheap combination carabiner lock. The police cordoned off the street and closed down the parking garage where the cache was hidden. The FBI investigator would like to get the word across to hide caches in clear containers so the contents can be judged harmless without causing unnecessary alarm. I told him that most of my caches are in clear plastic jars, but some of them are in ammo cans. He said they would have freaked out over an ammo can. What I am trying to say is to use clear containers so this wil not happen to you. Especially in an urban surrounding. Thanx. FASTFRANK&WANDA

[+The Leprechauns]

::: Taking bets on how many examples of exploded clear containers will be posted :::

[+jlday70]

It won't work I am an ex-military Bomb Tech and we are suspicious of everything ....I would say the best bet is to clearly mark the container on the outside.

Edited December 7, 2005 by jlday70

[+The Leprechauns]

1. Labeled caches

2. Permission from the land manager

3. Good hiding spots unlikely to be muggled

 

All of these, in my mind, are more important than using a clear container for the cache. That being said, I generally *do* choose clear containers for caches hidden in high-traffic suburban parks, saving my ammo cans for more remote locations, in the hope that at the margin this *might* help if there was a misunderstanding.

[+Mopar]

::: Taking bets on how many examples of exploded clear containers will be posted :::

I think they are about even, maybe slightly more clear containers.

BTW, I don't know of any terrorist attacks involving an ammo can, ever.

However, the Madrid bombings is still fresh in many people's minds. Remember these?

The bomb, which was being examined at a police laboratory, was in a clear plastic box measuring about 8 inches by 8 inches. The box contained nitrate fuel and a flat battery linked to seven detonators and a handmade timing device, the ministry said.

[+gas4cache]

I've never hid a cache.. but I would have to think it would be best to mark it with geocache stickers on all sides. That way if it is stumbled upon, maybe they will be clearly visible.

 

Ron

[+Mopar]

I've never hid a cache.. but I would have to think it would be best to mark it with geocache stickers on all sides. That way if it is stumbled upon, maybe they will be clearly visible.

 

Ron

Sadly, it usually doesn't matter. If the bomb squad come out, how will they know its not a bomb with a geocaching sticker? That's only one step removed from writing "this is not a bomb" on a bomb.

If they get called, chances are it's going to be a big deal.

 

Best bet is preventing the bomb squad from being called in the first place.

You do that by putting caches in places where non-cachers aren't going to find it.

You do that by getting permission. If the police get a call about something in one of my parks, me or someone in my office is going to get called before the bomb squad does.

[Jeremy]

::: Taking bets on how many examples of exploded clear containers will be posted :::

Oscar the Grouch was a clear plastic container hidden with permission near some trash bins outside of a PBS building. It was one of the first caches to be called in as a bomb. It doesn't matter what the container is. If the caller says it is a bomb it is treated as such. All you can do as a cache owner is to do your best to make sure it is not considered a bomb.

 

One good way is to place it out of high traffic areas. Drive-by caches are the most commonly called in as bombs.

[Jeremy]

You do that by putting caches in places where non-cachers aren't going to find it.

Often it is the suspicious looking activity that makes someone call in the cache, not the cache itself. But yes, location is the issue.

 

You do that by getting permission. If the police get a call about something in one of my parks, me or someone in my office is going to get called before the bomb squad does.

 

Even with permission, like in the case of Oscar the Grouch, the permission giver was on lunch break and no one in the immediate area knew what it was. This isn't foolproof, but it is a start.

[+Mile Runner]

One good way is to place it out of high traffic areas. -

I live in new york city how can i hide caches then

[+FASTFRANK&WANDA]

It is funny that you brought up Oscar the Grouch cache because I was involved in that one also. We were in Las Vegas shortly after 911. New to geocaching and wanting to log a cache far from our home in S.C. This was the only cache we located while we were there. When I was replacing the cache after signing the log I noticed a woman sitting at a nearby picnic table watching us curiously. When we got back home the cache was missing from the site and I found it on the archive listing. I remember the cache had some sort of computer game in it. Something with transistors that was visible thru the tupperware sandwich container. I think that was the reason the bomb squad blew it up. Small world after all.

[+Renegade Knight]

It is funny that you brought up Oscar the Grouch cache because I was involved in that one also. We were in Las Vegas shortly after 911. New to geocaching and wanting to log a cache far from our home in S.C. This was the only cache we located while we were there. When I was replacing the cache after signing the log I noticed a woman sitting at a nearby picnic table watching us curiously. When we got back home the cache was missing from the site and I found it on the archive listing. I remember the cache had some sort of computer game in it. Something with transistors that was visible thru the tupperware sandwich container. I think that was the reason the bomb squad blew it up. Small world after all.

You gave your own advice. If they can't tell 100% for sure they will blow it up. McToys have circuit boards.

 

I've had one of my caches call in. It was in a rest area on a state highway, out of the improved area and near a fishing pond. It was called in as a drug stash. That's who responded. They opend the cache saw it was good and told me no big deal. Had it been reported as a bomb the bomb squad would of showed up, blew it up and the sherrif would of been ranting about it and threatening to charge me.

 

The person who calls it in seems to weild a lot of power. In reality that should not be the case.

[Clan Riffster]

A cop's perspective;

Bomb squads need a purpose in life. That purpose is, quite often, blowing up harmless containers. The more stuff they get to blow up, the more important they look when it's time for budget considerations. There have been instances where a bomb squad responded to what was obviously not a bomb, they were told exactly what it was, and they blew it up anyway, claiming, "We can't take chances".

 

On a Devil's advocate note; Wasn't the bomb at the Atlanta Olympics in clear Tupperware?

[+briansnat]

Someone hiding a bomb in a clear container can wrap it in an innocuous looking package. Its not going to matter much at all

 

Labeling your caches clearly as caches and with contact info will help, but is not foolproof. The best way to keep the bomb squad from being called out is to hide your caches off the beaten path in an area where searchers are unlikey to be observed.

 

Often it is the activity of geocachers in an area that draws attention to the cache and generates a phone call to the fuzz.

[Jeremy]

Imagine if every discarded McDonalds bag was scrutinized as closely as a clear tupperware container. It boggles the mind.

[Vapor.TRH.]

Pretty much all depends on who finds the container and what they feel like it might be, No matter what the container, the wrong person finds it and they will call for assitance no matter what it is.

Label them well and try not to make them look like a pipe bomb for sure

[+sbell111]

... Label them well and try not to make them look like a pipe bomb for sure

My experience in this forum has tought me that very few people actually know what a pipe bomb looks like.

[+ramraj]

The idea of the threat of global terrorism comes to mind every time I give in to finding an urban micro cache. If I saw some guy hanging around a transformer or even loitering around a shopping mall I would be suspicious and wouldn't think twice about calling the cops. Our government is asking responsible citizens to do just that! I think people need to think twice about 90% of the placements of urban micros out there given the world we live in. Remember, there will always be more muggles than cachers.

[+sbell111]

Thank you, Mrs. Kravitz.

[+OmniCitadel]

keep in mind this...

 

we who are cachers are always likely to think that if we find a container that we are not aware of to be a cache... but to un aware person like my brother 5 months ago... they dont know what it is... no keep in mind my brother is not a stoner but still a snowboarder he was like cool and opened up the ammo case he found by his house. turned out to be a cache (he just learned that tonight by me) but he saw that there was all sorts of stuff in there figured it was somthing semi important and left it as it was... No matter what you do in this post 9/11 time that we are in that if a muggle finds it they are going to lose their mind its the times we are in.

 

the best thing you can do is write on there as intellectually as possible that it is a game and that disturbing that would ruin the fun. i hope that no more caches get blown up because of some ones lack of expanation. also when you find a cache put it back where it belongs...

 

my .02 cents

[+BigFurryMonster]

I sure hope no terrorist is reading this thread and will mark his bomb with the text: "this is a geocache - please do not disturb"...

[+OmniCitadel]

I sure hope no terrorist is reading this thread and will mark his bomb with the text: "this is a geocache - please do not disturb"...

the thought crossed my mind as i posted this...

 

you know that in france they no longer have trash cans in major citys any more....

 

they have determined that it is more cost effective to allow littering and pay a clean up force to deal with the trash then to have a container blow up and do real damage... i wonder how they deal with anything other then micro geocaches

[+Mr Nibbler]

As a former British Army bomb disposal officer I feel I can contribute a number of points:

 

1. All containers (even as small as a cassette tape case) are potential bombs if their location is suspect or the authorities are concerned for any reason. Visual identification of contents may help and use of portable x-ray equipment is always possible. An operator being happy with his initial findings does not, as mentioned before, guarantee no action being taken.

 

2. In nearly every case I dealt with over many years any "false" was disposed of as it was almost always trashed in the process. Those that were not disposed of after clearance were either of value, dangerous in some other way or directly traceable to an individual.

 

3. Even in the event of an operator being happy the target is false many will continue with disruptive action because: a) he/she and their team have blue-lighted to the scene and want a bit of a bang, or b ) the inevitable crowd which have gathered outside the incident control point and cordon may well have been inconvenienced for some time and deserve a bit of a show viz a bit of a bang and someone in a clumsy suit wandering around after the wheelbarrow (robot) has bimbled about for a bit.

 

And BTW, I have dealt with a discarded McDonalds bag - it was reported as "ticking" by the police and sure enough it was. Turned out it was water dripping from a pipe onto the styrofoam lid of a drinks container inside.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Mr Nibbler

[+OmniCitadel]

As a former British Army bomb disposal officer I feel I can contribute a number of points:

so (as a pfc us army) that your demed tghat even if you do clear the cache with the property managment... it still does not protect that...

 

regardless of what actions you take even clearing it withl the property manager to get the "ok" its not going to work to protect the cache?

Edited December 7, 2005 by OmniCitadel

[+Mr Nibbler]

It would help if the property manager is in the loop when it is reported and I would expect this to stop any action on the spot, but sometimes that is not the case - they may be on vacation for example or another member of staff may act in haste. Response by teams is usually fairly swift and there is, understandably, a better safe than sorry mentality about it all. Add to that the twitchiness of the general public on both sides of the pond these days and it is inevitable that some caches will be lost this way. But when all is said and done what is lost is a box in the woods or wherever, the disruption caused to others is much greater. And just think of all the paperwork the police and IEDD teams will have to do post incident

Edited December 7, 2005 by Mr Nibbler

[+OmniCitadel]

it is truely sad to hear that all that effort is taken for innocent ideals... but i am starting to realize the issue...

 

hahaha i sware i am under the same persecution right now in another forum... but oh well when i get tired of contesting my issue there i will go to bed...

[Zoptrop]

the parking garage where the cache was hidden

 

What's wrong with this picture?

[+Criminal]

I'm only sad that now I'll never get to experience that parking garage.

[+Renegade Knight]

the parking garage where the cache was hidden

 

What's wrong with this picture?

One of the best caches I've found was in a parking garage. It was eventually muggled (which maybe what's wrong with that picture...).

[Sadie]

I'm only sad that now I'll never get to experience that parking garage.

Parking garages can be fun.

 

 

Anybody bring a skateboard?

[+RobRee]

re:McDonalds bags and such....

 

December 31, 1982 – The FALN strikes again, this time they planted three bombs in lower Manhattan. One bomb secreted in a Kentucky Fried Chicken box severely injures PO Rocco Pascarella outside of One Police Plaza by blowing off his left leg. That same night, other bombs detonate at 26 Federal Plaza and the Metropolitan Correctional Facility, injuring Detectives Salvatore Pastorella and Anthony Senft from the Bomb Squad.

 

sometimes things are not what they seem.

[+EScout]

Several exploding pens were found in southern California high schools over the past few days. They exploded when the cap was removed.

 

Police Baffled by Booby Trapped pens; LA Times

[+TMBFamily]

Reading this thread brought a black cloud through my mind. I started going over all my hides and finds. I think only one time the thought "this might not be such a good idea" came to me while caching. It was a micro I found hidden under some fire exit stairs at the back of a building. So maybe "near buildings" is a problem somewhat like "near road bridges" as some have suggested.

 

The OP cache had at least 4 strikes against it: In/near a building, found/seen by muggle, opaque container, locked container. I think if any of those had not been true we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

I then started looking for cases of caches called in to bomb squads. It seems it might be good for everyones edification to collect up these cases to give us all a better chance of avoiding it. Oscar the Grouch seems to be mainly a case of bad timing. Another lesson from that is to avoid letting a muggle see you re-hide a cache. Then I saw Troll.

At first I thought this one wasn't near a building, but no... it is within 70 feet. So I think it is good advice to be extra careful with caches near buildings even if you have permission. But then, that was obvious.

 

So, how often does this happen?