+5¢ Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I am going on vacation soon and there is a cache with a rule on the cache page that I don't agree with as I know others don't agree either. If a cache has a rule for trading travel bugs and it says if you take one you have to leave one, do you all feel that this must be followed? A follow up question on that cache is...if some bugs have been sitting in that cache for months because it is in a very remote location, does that change your thoughts if you said to follow the cache owners rule? I have decided to not tell the specifics of the cache other than the cache is in another country other than the US. Quote Link to comment
+Lil Elephants Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 If you have one to trade, do it. If you don't, don't let that keep you from taking one. Those that have been stuck for a long time need to be moved whether you have any to trade or not. Quote Link to comment
+Lil Devil Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Travel bugs are meant to travel. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment
+Colorado Cacher Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Play fair. Wether a rule, option, or etc., is listed on the bugs page or cache page playing fair is self explanatory. Quote Link to comment
+zoltig Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I am sure the reason the cache hider has that request invoked into the cache is to help keep the cache full of bugs which is what they intended. ie TB hotel... HOWEVER, personally I have dropped off TB's without picking one up and as well hav picked a TB from a cache without dropping one in. I think it balances out. I do try to switch in/out evenly when I can but use that as a guide, not a rule. Save yourself some guilt and aquire a TB that you can switch out at that cache. If you do not have a bug, you can still enjoy hunting the cache, sign the logbook and not trade any bugs. You know, these cachers from Colorado are some of the smartest people around. Quote Link to comment
+Sagefox Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Play fair. Playing fair includes an average of actions over a long period of time. As far as the travel bug hotel rule about one-for-one goes, today someone might take 3 tb's and leave 1. Next month they might take 1 and leave 3. Perhaps one day they might take 5 and leave none but then take those 5 and deposit them in a travel bug deficient area for others to find. Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 If you have one to trade, do it. If you don't, don't let that keep you from taking one. Those that have been stuck for a long time need to be moved whether you have any to trade or not. That's right. I consider cache rules that are inconsistant with TB goals to be null and void. A TB is someone else's property and anyone who tries to impose their will upon someone else's property is missing the point. All of my TB hotels say something like this: There are no rules for this TB Hotel, because I don't want it to become a TB Prison.Trade bugs, take bugs, count coup, or just leave bugs. It's all kosher. Try to place NEW arrivals on the bottom to help rotate the inventory. I try to trade hand to hand, bug for bug, at events because I rotate the inventory of mine and other local TB hotels regularly. A few times a year I take long road trips where I clean my TB hotels out and restock upon my return. BTW- After being LTF on several geocoins, I will only trade those at events unless the owner wants them left in a cache. Quote Link to comment
+worldtraveler Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 (edited) If you have one to trade, do it. If you don't, don't let that keep you from taking one. Those that have been stuck for a long time need to be moved whether you have any to trade or not. That's right. I consider cache rules that are inconsistant with TB goals to be null and void. A TB is someone else's property and anyone who tries to impose their will upon someone else's property is missing the point. I agree. The rule is often counterproductive to the intent of the travel bug owners; and unless the cache owner has purchased at least as many travel bugs as are in the cache, he is keeping it stocked at others' expense. Edited December 2, 2005 by worldtraveler Quote Link to comment
+GEO.JOE Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I consider cache rules that are inconsistant with TB goals to be null and void. A TB is someone else's property and anyone who tries to impose their will upon someone else's property is missing the point. I would have no problem taking all of the bug and notifying the cache owner why and requesting they eliminate the 1 for 1 rule. If you are hesitant you can always ask the bug owners if they would like for you to move their bugs, then you can tell the cache owner you were only following the request of the TB owners. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Take as many bugs as you can and want to help along. And if anyone complains tell them I said it was ok. Quote Link to comment
Mustcache Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 When I first "opened" my TB Hotel, I had a stupid rule like that too. But, after learning more and more about geocaching (mostly from these forums), I realized it was a mistake. My hotel is simply a convenient place to help a TB fulfill its goal. If it's empty for awhile, so be it. Old 146 TB Hotel Quote Link to comment
+Folshen Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 (edited) I think the TB Hotel owners generally have good intentions. I must admit, even though I'm not fond of caches on private property, the hotels in someones yard are nice. They usually are stocked, people seem to have no problem trading bug for bug, the owners do routine maintenance etc... All good for the bugs. At the same time though, I think the "do not take a bug unless you leave a bug" rules are completely rediculous. If I had a personal bug that wound up in a hotel, someone visits that hotel and could help my bug along but refrained from taking it because they didn't have one to trade.... Well, those rules just don't work. Bugs are meant to travel, if you see one and can help it out, by all means TAKE it! What's the hotel owner going to do about it? If they pitch a fit then its not a hotel, its a prison. Edited December 2, 2005 by Folshen Quote Link to comment
+worldtraveler Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 ...Bugs are meant to travel, if you see one and can help it out, by all means TAKE it! What's the hotel owner going to do about it?... Unfortunately, some will go so far as to delete your "found it" log because you didn't follow their rules. Sadder still, you're not likely to get any help from TPTB when this happens. So just be aware: liberating travel bugs to help them on their way may cost you a . Quote Link to comment
+mon@rch Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Being a new TB Hotel Owner Old Zoo TB Hotel, I have found that most people ignore the 1 to 1 rule anyways. As a result, I commonly have to place 2 new bugs in the hotel every Thursday just to make sure that there are 3 bugs are in this cache. The rules that I have changed the hotel to is: RULES OF THE HOTEL: Please try to only take a Travel bug if you have a Travel bug to leave. If you have a Travel Bug you just want to drop off without taking one, this is OK. If there are 4 or 5 bugs in here, please feel free to take one without dropping one off. Just don't take 4 or 5 bugs and leave nothing. Do help the Travel Bug in supporting its goal in taking it to its suggested journey location. If any TB owner feels it has stayed in the cache too long, let me know and I will move it for you. Being this is located in a state park, many visitors (campers) travel a distance to cache and many bring TB with them. The goal of this cache is to allow these campers to take the bugs to Ohio, Michigan, Ontario, ect.. once they leave. I do have one that has sat there for a while. I emailed the owner a few weeks ago and stated that I would be happy to move it for them. They never responded back, so I assume they are happy that its just still there. I am ok with people taking one or even two without placing a bug. I just don't like when they clean it out, take 5 bugs and leave nothing. That's just pure greediness for numbers, remember, its only a game and should be fun!! Quote Link to comment
+the hermit crabs Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Being a new TB Hotel Owner Old Zoo TB Hotel, I have found that most people ignore the 1 to 1 rule anyways. As a result, I commonly have to place 2 new bugs in the hotel every Thursday just to make sure that there are 3 bugs are in this cache. The rules that I have changed the hotel to is: RULES OF THE HOTEL: Please try to only take a Travel bug if you have a Travel bug to leave. If you have a Travel Bug you just want to drop off without taking one, this is OK. If there are 4 or 5 bugs in here, please feel free to take one without dropping one off. Just don't take 4 or 5 bugs and leave nothing. Have you ever stayed at a hotel where the management wouldn't let you leave until a new guest arrived to fill your room? I doubt it -- when you're ready to check out, you just leave; it doesn't make a bit of difference to you if there's anyone else to take your place. It also doesn't make any difference to you if a lot of other people are leaving at the same time as you. You just want to go. Being this is located in a state park, many visitors (campers) travel a distance to cache and many bring TB with them. The goal of this cache is to allow these campers to take the bugs to Ohio, Michigan, Ontario, ect.. once they leave. But the goal of the bugs is to travel -- not to be held in reserve for a hostage-swap. Why should the goals of a cache supersede the goals of the bug? Why should a cache owner get to say who can or can't move bugs that are owned by someone else? Quote Link to comment
+cache_test_dummies Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 If a cache has a rule for trading travel bugs and it says if you take one you have to leave one, do you all feel that this must be followed? What you need is a Travel Bug which gives you permission to rescue any other bugs which are being held hostage in a TB Hotel. Like this one. Quote Link to comment
+mon@rch Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 But the goal of the bugs is to travel -- not to be held in reserve for a hostage-swap. Why should the goals of a cache supersede the goals of the bug? Why should a cache owner get to say who can or can't move bugs that are owned by someone else? Obviously you have had some TB issues in the past. I am putting this in print, if anyone feels like their TB in the Old Zoo TB Hotel is being held hostage, please send me an email, it will be gone the next day and it will be moved to antoher cache. I feel the most important thing is the cache owner and cache finder has fun. I will say it again, I do not have a problem with someone taking a Travel Bug or two without placing any. What is frustrating is those that take 5 bugs, clean out the hotel and then someone else shows up saying, "no bugs" and find nothing. I have one of my TB in a hotel for a few months now down south, thats alright, I am just glad it hasn't been stollen. Maybe those that don't want their TB's in Hotels, can just post on the TB Page, please no hotels, keep in typical caches only!! Sounds like a good mission to me!! People enjoy TB hotels, I enjoy giving the option to some to find a TB, it might be their first!! If you don't like them, don't visit them. I hate Micro Caches, so I do only a few of them!! Does that make me a bad person? Quote Link to comment
Mustcache Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 My hotel is simply a convenient place to help a TB fulfill its goal. If it's empty for awhile, so be it. Old 146 TB Hotel I'd like to point out that my hotel hasn't been empty since I abolished the "hostage" rules. But if it does empty out, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Keep Travel Bugs free! Quote Link to comment
+blackjack65 Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 What you need is a Travel Bug which gives you permission to rescue any other bugs which are being held hostage in a TB Hotel. Like this one. Or this second one, which was directly inspired by the first one. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 What you need is a Travel Bug which gives you permission to rescue any other bugs which are being held hostage in a TB Hotel. Like this one. Or this second one, which was directly inspired by the first one. I think I'm going to update my personal TB so that it is deputized to perform rescue missions. Any complaints will be directed to the TB. Quote Link to comment
+Tharagleb Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Travel Bugs belong to the bug owner, not the cache owner. In my mind any cache requirements about TB's are null and void. I wish GC.COM would not approve caches with TB restrictions. Quote Link to comment
+the hermit crabs Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Obviously you have had some TB issues in the past. ?? I am putting this in print, if anyone feels like their TB in the Old Zoo TB Hotel is being held hostage, please send me an email, it will be gone the next day and it will be moved to antoher cache. I feel the most important thing is the cache owner and cache finder has fun. That's the issue here: - You want to have fun yourself, by having lots of people go to your cache and say "Hey, great, lots of bugs in here!" - You want people at your cache to have fun, with lots of bugs to choose from. You don't particularly care about the "fun" of the people who own the bugs. You make a concession that if the owner requests it, you will move it. But in general, you are mostly concerned with yourself and the people at your cache, having fun at others' expense. What is frustrating is those that take 5 bugs, clean out the hotel and then someone else shows up saying, "no bugs" and find nothing. If someone can actually help all of the bugs in a cache toward their goals, then why shouldn't they take them? I'm sure that the bug owners would appreciate it. And as far as people being disappointed to find a bugless cache, someone else here said it best: if you expect a prize every time you open a box, you're better off sticking to Cracker Jacks. If a travel bug hotel is in a good spot for the quick and easy exchange of travel bugs, then an empty hotel won't stay empty long. People are always looking for a convenient place to drop bugs off. The owner of a well-placed hotel should actually be pleased if the hotel is occasionally empty, since it shows that the hotel is serving its purpose: to get bugs moving quickly. And if a hotel does stay empty for long periods of time without the cache owner continually raiding other caches to re-stock it, then it's not a good place for a travel bug hotel. Maybe those that don't want their TB's in Hotels, can just post on the TB Page, please no hotels, keep in typical caches only!! Sounds like a good mission to me!! Actually I have a note along those lines on almost all of my bug pages. And just as people sometimes ignore the 1-for-1 rule on your cache page, people also ignore that line on my bug pages -- they still bring them to restrictive hotels anyway. People enjoy TB hotels, I enjoy giving the option to some to find a TB, it might be their first!! And this is an admirable goal. I, too, enjoy finding bugs; I like taking their pictures and helping them with their missions. However, just because you want people to experience the fun of finding bugs, it does not mean that you should arbitrarily impose rules on other people's bugs. If you want your hotel to always have bugs in it, with rules about who can take them and how many they can take, then stock it with your own bugs. It's sort of as if you saw a homeless person on the street asking for spare change, and so you walked up to someone else and took their money, and then handed it over to the homeless person. The homeless person is happy, because he got some money; you are happy, because you feel generous that you were able to give him some. And who cares about the person whose money you took? If you don't like them, don't visit them. I hate Micro Caches, so I do only a few of them!! Does that make me a bad person? There's no connection there at all. Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 ...Bugs are meant to travel, if you see one and can help it out, by all means TAKE it! What's the hotel owner going to do about it?... Unfortunately, some will go so far as to delete your "found it" log because you didn't follow their rules. Sadder still, you're not likely to get any help from TPTB when this happens. So just be aware: liberating travel bugs to help them on their way may cost you a . Thats true, but losing a smilie in exchange for liberating some travelers and gaining gratitude of TB owners everywhere seems fair. Quote Link to comment
+AuntieWeasel Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 So just be aware: liberating travel bugs to help them on their way may cost you a . My numbers are small, and I cherish them dearly, but I would happily sacrifice a smiley for the sake of helping a few TB's. I have, like, twenty TB's out there, and it's amazing how seldom they move, and how even more seldom anybody posts a picture or an interesting log. I really feel for people who have one or two in circulation; it must feel like it was a complete waste. That said, I don't exactly roam the countryside rounding up TB's. If they're there, I take them if I can help. Quote Link to comment
+charliewhiskey Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 (edited) If a travel bug hotel is in a good spot for the quick and easy exchange of travel bugs, then an empty hotel won't stay empty long. People are always looking for a convenient place to drop bugs off. The owner of a well-placed hotel should actually be pleased if the hotel is occasionally empty, since it shows that the hotel is serving its purpose: to get bugs moving quickly. Well said! And if a hotel does stay empty for long periods of time without the cache owner continually raiding other caches to re-stock it, then it's not a good place for a travel bug hotel. Amen! All cachers, repeat after me: "Travel bugs are meant to travel! Travel bugs are meant to travel!! Travel bugs are meant to travel!!!" Edited December 3, 2005 by charliewhiskey Quote Link to comment
+badlands Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 What you need is a Travel Bug which gives you permission to rescue any other bugs which are being held hostage in a TB Hotel. Like this one. Or this second one, which was directly inspired by the first one. Great idea. I hope no one minds if I copy it. Quote Link to comment
+wavector Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 people seem to have no problem trading bug for bug, the owners do routine maintenance etc... All good for the bugs. The problem is perpetuating an idea that has NO validity, the bug for bug trade. The entire idea is "fundamental misunderstanding" of "the general parameters of the game". (those are "quotes") The Travel Bug is not a trade item. If you pick up a Travel Bug you are only a temporary custodian, when you take it you assume an obligation to help it achieve it's goals. Any restrictive covenant imposed by any cache owner demonstrates that they have a "fundamental misunderstanding" of Travel Bugs. To hinder the movement of bugs or to think that any encumbrance not placed by the bugs owner is "good for the bugs" is a fallacy. No matter how well intended it is a "fundamental misunderstanding" of "the general parameters of the game". Intention plays no part, results play no part, any hotel with any type of trade condition is a prison. It doesn't matter where it is or how well it is maintained. Take all the bugs you can help, all the time. Move trackable items, that is why the owners have placed them. Quote Link to comment
+Falcon Loader Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 As a travel bug owner, I preffer to see them moving on.... I just wish people would take and move them! Quote Link to comment
+Metaphor Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) I'd rather the goal of the bug owner supercede the hotel owner. I've visited a few hotels and taken a few bugs, but I can't remember if any had the one-for-one rule. Whatever the cache's requirement, I'm going to look at the bug's intended mission, and see if I can help it along. If it's a well-visited cache, I'll follow the rule. That being said, if a bug is languishing in a cache because it has no mission or is just an ugly duckling, I'll take that one, just to get it moving. If I have a bug to trade, I will; if not, well, I'll still try to move a bug on rather than leave it. how even more seldom anybody posts a picture Auntie Weasle, If I ever find one of yours, I'll do my best to amuse you... Fish Pen Sol-Sunshine Te the Bali Idol Where's Tom? Shamu the Whale Rick Ranger Edited December 11, 2005 by Metaphor Quote Link to comment
+AuntieWeasel Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Auntie Weasle, If I ever find one of yours, I'll do my best to amuse you... Fish Pen Sol-Sunshine Te the Bali Idol Where's Tom? Shamu the Whale Rick Ranger Goodness, Metaphor! You and I have a certain...confluence of style. Those look like my logs for Rebel Floater, or EU or Bust, or Zoomer, or...well, you get the idea. Quote Link to comment
+Metaphor Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Auntie Weasel's Zoomer log It's all about the numbers, you know... Metaphor's Ride Quote Link to comment
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