Logged With Permission

[+Monkeybrad]

Heh. Not all of TN hates you.

That's true, the great majority have never even heard of you.

[+tands]

I have to say, I think what geo-officer did is hilarious! Never make an offer if you don't want someone to take you up on it!

 

- T of TandS

[+wimseyguy]

Ditto what tands wrote; be careful what you wish for. I too would have tired of the game after 30-50 cut 'n pastes. I admire their tenacity. I was discussing this thread with a very wise friend of mine who rarely posts in here, and he offered up this sage analysis:

I think there are several schools of thought on "finds".

 

It all goes back to what you feel geocaching is.

 

1. It's about using a GPS to find stuff and log what you have to say about it."

2. It's about using a GPS to go someplace.  (Period.. added for emphasis)

3. It's about the #'s.

 

Sometimes #2 & #3 are intermixed...

My reply was that some days it's any one of those agendas, but that for me and my crew it is determined before the day begins. I have replaced to occasional container with the owners blessing, but I have never logged a find without actually finding something, even if it's burnt cache remnants..

Instead, when confronted with logging a DNF, I prefer to contact the owner and insist he replace the missing container so I can log my find. Actually I do log my DNF's; all 174 of them to date, and frequently say more in them that the finds.

 

And to answer the OP-I don't think TN hates you; Monkeybrad is right-most of them don't know you. Different folks and regions play with different rules. That's OK with me. I think it's OK with you too, isn't it?

I'll respect you more for your deeds and words than your numbers anyway.

[+OzGuff]

Heh.  Not all of TN hates you.   

That's true, the great majority have never even heard of you.

But that number is getting smaller... I'll keep working on it!

[+SixDogTeam]

Oz, Is your offer to log finds on your caches from home still on the table? I need to up my find numbers...

 

By the way, don't bother to second guess my decisions on what constitutes a find, and who can claim a smiley and who can't on any of my owned caches in a log, should you ever hunt any of mine... That'll be strictly up to me.

[+OzGuff]

Oz, Is your offer to log finds on  your caches from home still on the table? I need to up my find numbers...

 

By the way, don't bother to second guess my decisions on what constitutes a find, and who can claim a smiley and who can't  on any of my owned caches in a log, should you ever hunt any of mine... That'll be  strictly up to me. 

The offer is still on for one and all. Of course I reserve the right to make fun of you!

 

I will make second guesses of anyone at anytime, thank you. Had you read the DNF that precipitated all of this you will find that I did NOT second guess the cache owner but offered my opinion of the mindset that allows claiming a find when the cache is missing. This tends to occur in two sets of cachers: (1.) Those too new to know any better and (2.) those who have been at it long enough to know better.

 

I don't want to mention anything about "high number cachers", so I won't. But for cachers who want to be higher number cachers, get to work logging my caches.

 

Did I mention that I reserve the right to make fun of you!

 

Edited to remedy typos pointed out further down.

Edited December 2, 2005 by OzGuff

[+SixDogTeam]

get to work logging my caches.

 

Did I mention that I reserve the right to make fun off you!

OK, thanks, not a problem!

[+OzGuff]

And to answer the OP-I don't think TN hates you; Monkeybrad is right-most of them don't know you. Different folks and regions play with different rules. That's OK with me.  I think it's OK with you too, isn't it? 

I'll respect you more for your deeds and words than your numbers anyway.

You are right that different folks/regions seem to play by different rules. But where does it end?

 

1. Cacher: I am positive that the cache is missing; I found a few McToys on the ground very near the listed coordinates. Cacher Owner: Go ahead and log it as a find.

2. Cacher: I am pretty sure that the cache is missing; I searched for an hour, used the clue, and could find nothing. Cacher Owner: Go ahead and log it as a find.

3. Cacher: I am pretty sure that the cache is missing; I searched for five minutes. This is my first cache hunt and I'm not sure if I had the GPS on. Cacher Owner: Go ahead and log it as a find.

4. Cacher: I drove right through the parking lot that the cache is in but there was someone parked near the lightpole so I couldn't search. Cacher Owner: Go ahead and log it as a find.

5. Cacher: I was in the area caching and had your cache on my list; time ran out and I couldn't get to it. Cacher Owner: Go ahead and log it as a find.

6. Cacher: I just saw your new cache listing -- it looks pretty cool!. Cacher Owner: Go ahead and log it as a find.

 

Sounds like a slippery slope to me...

 

And I didn't question the "right" but why anyone would want to make that call. (See #1 through #6 above.)

 

Note to all: When wimseyguy calls to demand a cache be replaced, I advise that you drop everything and get going!

[+beejay&esskay]

The offer is still on for one and all. Of course I reserve the right to make fun off you!

Or fun "of" you?

 

You could make this easier by creating bookmark lists of your caches so we can download them to GSAK and create automatic logging scripts.

 

TFTClicks in advance.

 

(Yeah, I'm just kidding.)

[+OzGuff]

get to work logging my caches. 

 

Did I mention that I reserve the right to make fun off you!

OK, thanks, not a problem!

One down. You only have 300+ to go.

 

At what point do folks move from thinking like idiots to acting like idiots to becoming idiots? [Rhetorical question that applies to nobody in particular.]

[+Team Perks]

But for cachers who want to be higher number cachers, get to work logging my caches.

I was wrong about getting tired after 40 or 50 logs. I logged seven of your caches just now and I already got bored.

 

Forget that. I'm going caching.

[+OzGuff]

But for cachers who want to be higher number cachers, get to work logging my caches. 

I was wrong about getting tired after 40 or 50 logs. I logged seven of your caches just now and I already got bored.

 

Forget that. I'm going caching.

Well you deleted them too, so that was sort of like logging 14...

 

Thanks for playing!

[+SixDogTeam]

get to work logging my caches. 

 

Did I mention that I reserve the right to make fun off you!

OK, thanks, not a problem!

One down. You only have 300+ to go.

 

At what point do folks move from thinking like idiots to acting like idiots to becoming idiots? [Rhetorical question that applies to nobody in particular.]

Well, gawrsh, I WAS going to log just the one, for FUN, but since your method of making "fun off me" is to call me an idiot in the forums, I think I'll just go log another... I don't think you are an idiot, I respect your opinion, it's just not the same as mine. .. I thought your making fun of me would be a little more clever than name calling...

 

Oh, by the way, just because you claim you are not insulting someone after you do it, doesn't make it so.

 

Ah, off to up my numbers, ha,ha!!

[+wimseyguy]

Note to all: When wimseyguy calls to demand a cache be replaced, I advise that you drop everything and get going!

 

and if all cache owners maintained their hides the way you do we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

BTW folks he really does have 300+ hides, and from what I saw last month-they are all in fine shape. (Well except for the one we trashed in order to log, but it was done with the owner's permission. In fact it may have been the entertainment highlight of the whole trip.

Edited December 2, 2005 by wimseyguy

[+Quiggle]

Well except for the one we trashed in order to log, but it was done with the owner's permission.

Is this going to be a second thread I should prepare for?

 

[+BlueDeuce]

You are right that different folks/regions seem to play by different rules. But where does it end?

For me it never started.

 

I will not claim a cache I did not find. I don't care if I see the imprint of the ammocan in the dirt and a logbook laying in the weeds. It's not going to happen.

 

However, I don't go around posting that when I see people not quite as......dedicated as I am.

 

It would probably tic them off, eh?

[+OzGuff]

Well, gawrsh, I WAS going to log just the one, for FUN, but since your method of making "fun off me" is to call me an idiot in the forums, I think I'll just go log another... I don't think you are an idiot, I respect your opinion, it's just not the same as mine. .. I thought your making fun of me would be a little more clever than name calling...

 

Oh, by the way, just because you claim you are not insulting someone after you do it, doesn't make it so.

 

Ah, off to up my numbers, ha,ha!!

If my rhetorical question was directed at anyone it was geoofficer. (Did I tell you that she/he has started on a second round of find logs?) I'm not going to apologize for indirectly slighting you -- if the shoe fits -- but think about your actions. It takes me much less time for me to delete an email from my Inbox than it does for you to look up my caches and claim the bogus find.

 

Could anyone out there NOT tell I was being a tad sarcastic in my DNF cache log? I'm living with the consequences -- until such time as Groundspeak realizes that geoofficer's actions are causing hundreds and hundreds of notification emails to be sent out. Not just to me but to everyone watching my caches.

 

I think it was wimseyguy who once said:

 

I'll respect you more for your deeds and words than your numbers anyway.

[+OzGuff]

You are right that different folks/regions seem to play by different rules. But where does it end?

For me it never started.

 

I will not claim a cache I did not find. I don't care if I see the imprint of the ammocan in the dirt and a logbook laying in the weeds. It's not going to happen.

 

However, I don't go around posting that when I see people not quite as......dedicated as I am.

 

It would probably tic them off, eh?

Interestingly I have had no direct communication with the cache owner except for my DNF log on that cache. The cache has since been replaced.

 

geoofficer's reaction came at me from out of the blue [No pun intended BD.]; she/he seems to be from NE TN or SW VA and is apparently not local to Morristown.

 

If I ticked anyone off, so be it. My opinions haven't changed about the practice in question. My opinions of cachers utilizing an ethical construct that allows them to engage in said practice have.

[+SixDogTeam]

 

If my rhetorical question was directed at anyone it was geoofficer.

OK, thanks, OZ, no hard feelings. I'll take your denial of calling me an idiot as a backhanded apology, which I accept.--but you really ought to go back and edit the post, everybody can still see it... Thanks for the caches. Took nothing, left nothing, didn't sign logs... I think I just missed the Officer on a few of them...

 

By the way, you're right, I am an Idiot--I just don't cotton to being CALLED one!!!

 

[+OzGuff]

SDT:

 

I think that after a careful parsing of my rhetorical question you will find that I may have implied that "folks" were "thinking like idiots" and not that they were actually idiots. A small semantic point, but much easier to understand than what the definition of "is" is.

 

Edited to change "inferred" to "implied". (Thanks SDT!)

Edited December 2, 2005 by OzGuff

[+SixDogTeam]

At what point do folks move from thinking like idiots to acting like idiots to becoming idiots?

Parse away.

[+medic208]

BTW folks he really does have 300+ hides, and from what I saw last month-they are all in fine shape. (Well except for the one we trashed in order to log, but it was done with the owner's permission. In fact it may have been the entertainment highlight of the whole trip.

 

I have to agree, I found somewhere between 100 and 175 of his caches (not sure the exact number as I am still in the process of logging them) over the past weekend and they were all in excellent shape. I'm sure it takes a lot of work to maintain them! Oh... and the cache you trashed Wimsey is back in service... Neat hide btw

[+BlueDeuce]

My opinions haven't changed about the practice in question.

My Heavens, I hope not

 

My opinions of cachers utilizing an ethical construct that allows them to engage in said practice have.

Well like me, I don't think it's your opinion that's changed just your understanding.

 

I understand that people can and will do certain things, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

 

Nor does it mean that I can't say that I disagree, and trust me, I will.

 

You just have to be on pretty solid ground when you offer an unsolicited opinion.

[+medic208]

BTW folks he really does have 300+ hides, and from what I saw last month-they are all in fine shape. (Well except for the one we trashed in order to log, but it was done with the owner's permission. In fact it may have been the entertainment highlight of the whole trip.

 

I have to agree, I found somewhere between 100 and 175 of his caches (not sure the exact number as I am still in the process of logging them) over the past weekend and they were all in excellent shape. I'm sure it takes a lot of work to maintain them! Oh... and the cache you trashed Wimsey is back in service... Neat hide btw

Oops! I spoke too soon... I should have looked at the link you posted, but I was thinking of this cache that was trashed.

[+SixDogTeam]

SDT:

 

I think that after a careful parsing of my rhetorical question you will find that I may have inferred that "folks" were "thinking like idiots" and not that they were actually idiots.

Let's do some "careful parsing" here. You did not "infer" anything. You "implied". But actually it wasn't an implication, it was a direct statement, even if in question form...

 

Anyway, enough of this. The cache owner controls the logs on his page. period. If he does things you don't think fair, so be it. If he gives somebody a smilie, is anybody hurt? I mean it's not like he's letting EVERYBODY log ALL his caches without even going to them, right?

[+Clan X-Man]

Though some of SC is starting to.

 

X

[+OzGuff]

Oops! I spoke too soon... I should have looked at the link you posted, but I was thinking of this cache that was trashed.

I originally thought that wimseyguy was talking about the Near Big Paul cache too, and had forgotten that they also trashed another cache. You cachers from somewhere out east... (NC, that is!)

[+OzGuff]

Though some of SC is starting to.

 

X

Hope your FIL is doing well!

 

And glad you were able to add to this thread...

[+OzGuff]

Anyway, enough of this. The cache owner controls the logs on his page. period. If he does things you don't think fair, so be it. If he gives somebody a smilie, is anybody hurt? I mean it's not like he's letting EVERYBODY log ALL his caches without even going to them, right?

I agree totally! The cache owner rules. And I never questioned that.

 

But that doesn't change my negative opinion of the practice of allowing folks to claim a find when they didn't. (And my steadily declining opinion of cache owners that allow -- even promote -- said practice.)

 

I stated my opinion on the cache page. Maybe I should have contacted the cache owner directly. But I didn't. I had the strength of my convictions to scream it from the rooftops. (Pardon the hyperbole.) geoofficer, for whatever reason, seems slighted by my opinion and is hiding behind a likely sockpuppet account.

 

Aren't the forums fun?

[+treedweller]

It seems that the easiest "rule" to follow is that if you sign the log then you found the cache.

 

good rule to live by Ahh yes.

 

Thanks for pointing out an early indiscretion in my caching career. This "find" occurred exactly 21 days after my first ever find; my caching ethic was still being formed. (Kudos for also posting my log for the same cache 6+ months later where I rectified the situation by signing the log of the now-replaced cache. And I traded up too!)

 

But this thread isn't about claiming a find when the cache isn't there. (See Jamie Z for that thread.) I await more constructive criticisms or supportive comments...

As an aside---I notice you took a "multi-sided dice." That's not so interesting, but raises the question: do you have a single-sided die? I'd love to see it! Sounds fascinating!

 

Sorry. "My name is treedweller and I am asmartass."

 

TD

[+Titansfan]

For geooffcer, it's his/her business how he wants to manage his caches.

 

For me, don't bother sending me a message to allow a find when one didn't find the cache.

 

I would accept a log that when a non-registered cacher was with the registered cacher and then later became registered. At that time, I would want a message and would be OK with me.

[+fishingfools]

OZGUFF,

 

You rock! That is all!

[+OzGuff]

As an aside---I notice you took a "multi-sided dice." That's not so interesting, but raises the question: do you have a single-sided die? I'd love to see it! Sounds fascinating!

I think it was a dodecahedron, or some other such die as are used in games such as D&D. I will edit my post from April 2004...

[+charliewhiskey]

geoofficer, for whatever reason, ... is hiding behind a likely sockpuppet account.

I find it curious that geoofficer would go through the illusion of back-dating to March some of his remote logs of OzGuff's caches (while still referring to OzGuff's Nov 13 log entry).

 

Here is something that helps me in situations like this: (Regrettably I don't remember the author or sourse.)

 

LAWS TO LIVE BY

 

Whatever I give to life returns to me threefold.

 

If I love and encourage others, believing in them, they will automatically believe in me.

 

When I help others I should keep it a secret, expecting no reward.

 

If wronged by another, I should bless him in my heart and give him the freedom to make mistakes as he seeks his own pathway. Judge not, lest I be judged.

 

Whatever bread I cast upon the waters will be returned to me in kind.

 

If I steal, I will be stolen from.

 

If I hate, I will be hated.

 

When I give help, I will receive help.

 

Above all, I must learn to rely on my own intuition. It is the spark of God* within me.

 

* Feel free to substitute your own sourse of divine inspiration here.

 

I especially use this one a lot:

 

If wronged by another, I should bless him in my heart and give him the freedom to make mistakes as he seeks his own pathway. Judge not, lest I be judged.

[+Nuwati]

The few times I have logged a cache without signing the log were due to not having a writing tool to do so(blasted byop micros). However I always left something in the container that illustrated mt presence. Yes this meant that I had to get creative at times. I even went as far as to buy off next the cacher so that they would sign it fir me by leaving a dollar in the cache and posting online that I needed some help. Is this wrong. Well every time this has happened I found the cache...had it in my hand...and made an attempt to show that I was there. Right or wrong...I don't know, but I sleep well at night.

 

When you see smileys you assume that the cache is there and you spend the time looking for this cache. OzGuff is a great guy, and a pure cacher. He beleives that it is not found until it is in your hands. I think his frustration lies in the fact that he saw smiles and could not figure out why he could not get the cache in his hands. When you are trying to manage your kids and find the most caches (caches that are there or not who knows?) it would be frustrating to find out later that the owner allowed a log or logs that were not deserved.

 

I think the best thing he pointed out in his controversial log was that at the end of the day we all return to our own set of caching rules. Be cool folks. He was just blowing off steem. Lets not waste time hating each other. That is just stupid. I love you all.

 

Nuwati

[+worldtraveler]

Anyway, enough of this. The cache owner controls the logs on his page. period. If he does things you don't think fair, so be it.  If he gives somebody a smilie, is anybody hurt? I mean it's not like he's letting EVERYBODY log  ALL his caches without even going to them, right?

I agree totally! The cache owner rules. And I never questioned that.

 

But that doesn't change my negative opinion of the practice of allowing folks to claim a find when they didn't. (And my steadily declining opinion of cache owners that allow -- even promote -- said practice.)...

Wow, you must be filled with self-loathing about now.

Did you miss the hypocrisy SDT was pointing out, or did you just choose to ignore it?

 

Your clearly-sarcastic initial invitation was taken at face value by (apparently) a sock puppet. But instead of calling an end to it, you've gone on to invite others to help themselves as well. Looks like you've become one of those

cache owners that allow -- even promote -- said practice.

 

Oh, and I share your negative opinion of those that do.

Edited December 2, 2005 by worldtraveler

[+Mudfrog]

You are right that different folks/regions seem to play by different rules. But where does it end?

For me it never started.

 

I will not claim a cache I did not find. I don't care if I see the imprint of the ammocan in the dirt and a logbook laying in the weeds. It's not going to happen.

 

However, I don't go around posting that when I see people not quite as......dedicated as I am.

 

It would probably tic them off, eh?

specifically:

I don't care if I see the imprint of the ammocan in the dirt and a logbook laying in the weeds. It's not going to happen.

 

It's a find if i can sign that logbook!

[+SixDogTeam]

Anyway, enough of this. The cache owner controls the logs on his page. period. If he does things you don't think fair, so be it.  If he gives somebody a smilie, is anybody hurt? I mean it's not like he's letting EVERYBODY log  ALL his caches without even going to them, right?

I agree totally! The cache owner rules. And I never questioned that.

 

But that doesn't change my negative opinion of the practice of allowing folks to claim a find when they didn't. (And my steadily declining opinion of cache owners that allow -- even promote -- said practice.)...

Wow, you must be filled with self-loathing about now.

Did you miss the hypocrisy SDT was pointing out, or did you just choose to ignore it?

 

Your clearly-sarcastic initial invitation was taken at face value by (apparently) a sock puppet. But instead of calling an end to it, you've gone on to invite others to help themselves as well. Looks like you've become one of those

cache owners that allow -- even promote -- said practice.

 

Oh, and I share your negative opinion of those that do.

Exactly!

[4wheelin_fool]

Here is something that helps me in situations like this: (Regrettably I don't remember the author or sourse.)

 

LAWS TO LIVE BY

 

Whatever I give to life returns to me threefold.

 

If I love and encourage others, believing in them, they will automatically believe in me.

 

When I help others I should keep it a secret, expecting no reward.

 

If wronged by another, I should bless him in my heart and give him the freedom to make mistakes as he seeks his own pathway. Judge not, lest I be judged.

 

Whatever bread I cast upon the waters will be returned to me in kind.

 

If I steal, I will be stolen from.

 

If I hate, I will be hated.

 

When I give help, I will receive help.

 

Above all, I must learn to rely on my own intuition. It is the spark of God* within me.

 

* Feel free to substitute your own sourse of divine inspiration here.

 

I especially use this one a lot:

 

If wronged by another, I should bless him in my heart and give him the freedom to make mistakes as he seeks his own pathway. Judge not, lest I be judged.

This is a great post. Remember, when you hold anger or animosity towards someone, you are really just hurting yourself. It will get a hold of you, and poison your thinking. Its like holding on to battery acid. I learned this from a divorce several years ago. It was only after I let go of the hate, was I free. Today, I try not to hate anyone. It still happens at times, but I let go of it pretty quickly. Usually, as soon as I find the cache, the hate is gone.

[+GPSlug]

Was your offer good for your future caches too?

 

Hey, everyone, there's a FTF up for grabs here!

[+edscott]

There was a time a year or more ago that a couple of Tennessee folks logged in a few hundred Pennsylvania caches over the space of a couple days citing some sort of owner permission in lieu of a real visit. That was when I realized that the numbers mean nothing. That person above you on the list might be real, but they may just be a bag of hot air. So just enjoy the ones you do and don't worry about the numbers.

[+OzGuff]

Anyway, enough of this. The cache owner controls the logs on his page. period. If he does things you don't think fair, so be it.  If he gives somebody a smilie, is anybody hurt? I mean it's not like he's letting EVERYBODY log  ALL his caches without even going to them, right?

I agree totally! The cache owner rules. And I never questioned that.

 

But that doesn't change my negative opinion of the practice of allowing folks to claim a find when they didn't. (And my steadily declining opinion of cache owners that allow -- even promote -- said practice.)...

Wow, you must be filled with self-loathing about now.

Did you miss the hypocrisy SDT was pointing out, or did you just choose to ignore it?

 

Your clearly-sarcastic initial invitation was taken at face value by (apparently) a sock puppet. But instead of calling an end to it, you've gone on to invite others to help themselves as well. Looks like you've become one of those

cache owners that allow -- even promote -- said practice.

 

Oh, and I share your negative opinion of those that do.

I definitely did NOT miss SDT's sarcasm. In fact, I enjoyed the line! My opinion of cache owners following "said practice" had nothing to do with anything SDT (or anyone else) has said in this thread.

 

As far as "self-loathing" goes it hasn't impacted me yet. I know that I am not a follower of "said practice" regardless of my offer. I agree with many folks who have responded above -- I can see the funny side of geoofficer's actions. (Now the second round of bogus find logs is beginning to wear a little thing...)

 

Glad you share my opinion though!

[+OzGuff]

Was your offer good for your future caches too?

 

Hey, everyone, there's a FTF up for grabs here!

ROFLMAO!!!

[+OzGuff]

OZGUFF,

 

You rock! That is all!

And I am very glad that you didn't wind up in the Tuckasegee River! (snigger)

[+wimseyguy]

OZGUFF,

 

You rock!  That is all!

And I am very glad that you didn't wind up in the Tuckasegee River! (snigger)

Yes he certainly was on a roll at that cache!

[+Riddlers]

Areyou saying that geo officer is logging your caches a second time?

[+OzGuff]

Areyou saying that geo officer is logging your caches a second time?

At last count he/she had logged most/all of my caches (370-ish non-archived) once. 28 of them she/he has logged twice. One of them has been logged three times. The double/treble logs will get deleted. I mean, really, I have to draw the line somewhere...

[+tands]

The few times I have logged a cache without signing the log were due to not having a writing tool to do so(blasted byop micros).

Well, I guess it's time to publish my new book:

 

Forest Nuts, Bugs, and Other Writing Implements.

 

Looks like the need is finally there.

 

- T of TandS

Edited December 3, 2005 by tands

[+tands]

And, OzGuff, you sure are lucky. We have some caches that nobody ever logs. I always say, the best reward for hiding a cache is the find logs. Well, actually, the DNF logs that involve tormented bloody struggle are the best, but the find logs are a close second!

 

- T of TandS

[+5¢]

Ozguff, I think if more start to follow in geofficer and sixdog teams (who I believe is doing what he is doing as a joke) footsteps, your pages may get abused and start a little angst with the local cachers of your hidden caches.

 

Soon your cache pages may start looking like this.

 

But anyways, I am leaving for Mexico, so hope everything works out in the end.