Latest On National Wildlife Reguges?

[+TeamVilla5]

I went caching today and didn't realize until I was pretty close (by car) that they are in a local National Wildlife Refuge.

 

While searching (99% on refuge roads, both caches within 20' of a parking spot), I kept thinking I had read something here about it being banned in NWRs.

 

I just did a forum search and I can't find anything really recent about it... last I could find, it's still not allowed.

 

Anybody know the latest? TIA!

 

Happy Cachin'!

Lori V.

TeamVilla5

 

Edit: $%#*! Why can't I edit that stupid misspell in my thread title?!?!?

Edited November 30, 2005 by TeamVilla5

[Keystone]

Hi, and thanks for asking. As stated in the Off Limit (Physical) Caches section of the Geocache Listing Requirements/Guidelines document, Geocaching.com does not knowingly list caches located on land managed by the US Fish and Wildlife Service, i.e., National Wildlife Refuges.

 

You may have been visiting an old cache that was published prior to the agency notifying Groundspeak of their policy on November 13, 2003, and publicized here in the Groundspeak Forums. Or, the cache could have been just outside the border of the Refuge. Or, the reviewer may not have caught it, as our information is only as good as the mapping tools provided. Recent land acquisitions may not be reflected on a topographical map, for example. In the first instance, it is up to the cache owner to be familiar with the land manager's policy when placing a cache. If you have a specific concern, contact the cache owner and if it isn't worked out, contact Geocaching.com.

[+Lil Devil]

It's still not allowed. Perhaps you found some that were published before the ban, or the reviewer made a mistake? If you can provide links or GC numbers we could look. Without that, anything said is pure speculation.

[+Mopar]

From the guidelines for hiding a cache:

Off-limit (Physical) Caches

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived.

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

• 
   
   
  
• Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)
   
   
  

Also, check out this forum thread:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=58943

 

edit: Hey! If we all posted at the same time, how come those guys posts are above mine?!?

Edited November 30, 2005 by Mopar

[+TeamVilla5]

Hey! If we all posted at the same time, how come those guys posts are above mine?!?

 

Ummmm.... alphabetical order?!?!?

[+Moose Mob]

I'm glad that guidelines are guiidelines.

 

Of the 4 wildlife refuges in this area, 3 do not have caches published that are placed on them. They will not give permission, but they also are not asking existing caches to be removed unless they show threat, such as the creation of unauthorized roads.

 

However, one National Wildlife Refuge actively endorses and supports them.

Want to find out? Ask.

[+geoaware]

Earthcaches CAN be placed in National Parks, Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management Land....but all of them must have prior approval of the local land manager (that means a name, position and phone number) before we will approve them.

 

We have agreements with all three of these agencies....who all seem delighted to have Earthcaches on their land.

[+Moose Mob]

If we can't have earthcaches. then why get permission?

[+Lil Devil]

Huh?

[+Moose Mob]

Huh?

Those are Waymarks, not geocaches.

[+Lil Devil]

IMO earthcaches were never geocaches

[+Mopar]

The point being I believe most/all earthcaches are of a virtual container type. There is no container, there is no log. Agreement or not, it would be pretty hard to stop someone from placing/finding a virtual item. Are they going to arrest you for walking in a public place just because you have an electronic map instead of a paper one?*

 

 

 

*Yes, I know some places (an NPS in AZ, and the state of SC) have threatened such, but I doubt it would stick if it made it to court

[+Mule Ears]

The point being I believe most/all earthcaches are of a virtual container type. There is no container, there is no log. Agreement or not, it would be pretty hard to stop someone from placing/finding a virtual item. Are they going to arrest you for walking in a public place just because you have an electronic map instead of a paper one?*

 

*Yes, I know some places (an NPS in AZ, and the state of SC) have threatened such, but I doubt it would stick if it made it to court

Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge (Southern AZ) prohibits even foot traffic within their boundaries beyond the visitor's center. I tried to arrange advance permission to hike down their road to the mountains beyond to snag a cache. No joy. You're permitted to be in the mountains, or to hike around their road via an adjacent canyon, but not to hike on their road.

 

I'd be better off if the cache were behind Area-51.

[+Moose Mob]

<snip>

I'd be better off if the cache were behind Area-51.

Nobody has found my Area 51 cache yet. Of course, to get non-existing permission from non existing people for my non-existing cache, I had to do it on a non-existing GC####.

[+Moose Mob]

So, with respect to virtuals gone to waymarks, and permission.

 

If you have permission to be there, and permitted to have a GPS, then how can they stop you? Maybe they can.... I hope someone can elaborate.

[+sept1c_tank]

Nobody has found my Area 51 cache yet.  Of course, to get non-existing permission from non existing people for my non-existing cache, I had to do it on a non-existing GC####.

Can you do that?

[+Moose Mob]

Nobody has found my Area 51 cache yet.  Of course, to get non-existing permission from non existing people for my non-existing cache, I had to do it on a non-existing GC####.

Can you do that?

Can't tell you.

 

I do have a cache nearby.

 

Edt; Sorry for the tangent - we can go back on topic now.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Moose Mob

[CoyoteRed]

I was informed directly by a higher ranking official (I can hunt down that email if need be) that while geocaching is not spefically banned in USF&WS lands, any activity has to be approved by the local superindendant. Asked directly if a local superindendant could authorize a geocache on his/her ward, the answer was any activity has to fit fairly stringant guidelines--much more stringent than NPS guidelines--to be approved.

 

Basically, unless you can show a geocache somehow benefits, or somehow fits, game and wildlife conservation, then it will not be allowed.

 

That's too bad because their are plenty of areas around here that are great for sightseeing, but I'm guessing the political pressure from above prevents getting caches in there.

 

Also, while I might have to look this up, but I'm thinking this only applies to lands actually designated as a NWR. Other lands managed by the USF&WS might have different requirements, if any. (Don't have my notes at hand at the moment.)