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Icon Swap Meets


Jeremy

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There is an emerging trend for geocachers to mark down codes for Travel Bugs and essentially do a swap meet at cache events. None of the Travel Bugs actually move. Instead geocachers just pick them up and drop them off in the same cache to collect a "find" for the Travel Bug.

 

That wasn't the intent but I can imagine people just want to "collect" the Travel Bugs they see, and in the case of geocoins they want to collect the icon on their profile page. However this activity can be extremely annoying for cache owners, travel bug or geocoin owners, and a drain on the web site.

 

I have some ideas. First, picking up and dropping off a travel bug in the same cache will error and effectively delete both your pick up and drop off logs, or simply change the pickup log to a note. I can, however, see someone circumvent this by just picking it up, dropping it into some arbitrary cache and dropping it back in the original cache.

 

Therefore I propose that there be a new log type that counts as a "find." It could be called "tag" or "collect" that would just add a log saying you saw it and logged it but that's pretty much it. No miles will be marked nor will they be used for anything else but collections.

 

Please offer feedback and any alternatives you come up with. Obviously a code will be required to use the log type.

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That wasn't the intent but I can imagine people just want to "collect" the Travel Bugs they see, and in the case of geocoins they want to collect the icon on their profile page. However this activity can be extremely annoying for cache owners, travel bug or geocoin owners, and a drain on the web site.

 

Yes!!

 

As a Geocoin owner who gets tired quickly of all the emails from people "grabbing" the coin at an event, :huh: I think this is a great idea.

 

If I understand correctly, this will allow cachers to get the coveted "icon" on their profile, yet it won't generate an email to the bug/coin owner.

 

Thanks Jeremy!

Edited by CT Trampers
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........Therefore I propose that there be a new log type that counts as a "find." It could be called "tag" or "collect" that would just add a log saying you saw it and logged it but that's pretty much it. No miles will be marked nor will they be used for anything else but collections.......

 

Would the virtual posession remain where it was and the collection just be credited to the cachers profile?

 

This alternative seems very viable if the posession remained where it was, such as the cache it was physically in. What would happen when codes are shared and the T/B is just grabbed from one cacher to another?

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This has always bothered me that people log a ton of travel bugs and coins just because they "saw" it. Heck, half of the time they never actually looked at the tag to get the numbers. Whatta say we create more rules, and one being that you actually have to move the bug to score the log/icon. Yes, that was heavy sarcasm laced with some truth.

 

How about creating a log type that says "Seen it" That is more along the line of the actual action.

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I have some ideas. First, picking up and dropping off a travel bug in the same cache will error and effectively delete both your pick up and drop off logs, or simply change the pickup log to a note. I can, however, see someone circumvent this by just picking it up, dropping it into some arbitrary cache and dropping it back in the original cache.

First off, I think overall that adding another log type for seen items is an excellent idea. But if there is an option for a "touched" or "saw" or "spotted" log (or whatever you want to call it) that counted toward stats, would people still go through the trouble of posting two logs- one to pick up and another to drop the item- when they could just use one? Unless people are suspicious of the new log type I think the problem would fix itself.

 

edit: for clarification

Edited by DavidMac
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I'm probably just being dense, but this won't affect those of us with personal travel bugs that drop them into a cache that we've visited and then pick them up again? Our dogs are a TB and we track their mileage by dropping them on find logs when they have accompanied us on the hunt and then I immediately retrieve them from that cache. So no extra e-mail goes to the cache owner and the TB only shows as being in the cache for just a few minutes. This isn't an offshoot of the problem you're trying to address, is it?

 

Mrs. Car54

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I like the "tagged/collected/seen it" log type for trackables, but I would also make them only work if a trackable is either checked into an event-type listing, or in someone's hands. I hate seeing a bug that's supposedly in a cache out in the woods getting logged 50 times by people saying "checking in bugs from such-and-such event." If I want to go get that bug, I have no idea if it's actually in the cache.

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I like the "spotted it" option for items. This I might even use. For example- we are out caching, there is a cute TB in the cache but we don't take it because whomever we are caching with grabbed it first. I have a few pictures of it or something and want to have that particular bug listed as one we have seen but not transported. It would be cool to be able to post that we saw it, took some photos, etc, without having it jump into our inventory. I know I can use the note option, but as far as I can tell, when I put a note on a TB it doesn't show up in my TB list for later tracking.

-Jen

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I'm probably just being dense, but this won't affect those of us with personal travel bugs that drop them into a cache that we've visited and then pick them up again?

That is actually just logging movements from cache to cache. What I am referring to are people who pick up and drop off the travel bug or geocoin into the same cache it was already in just to get a "find" count on their stats page. So Bob picks up the Travel Bug out of X cache and places it back in X cache. You're just dropping it off in X cache, picking it up and placing it in Y cache.

 

There also seems to be some confusion here. People are already sharing their codes at cache events and they are being picked up and dropped back off into the same cache they were in. A "tag" log type would essentially combine a "pick up" and "drop off" log entry into one entry but still count towards the way a current "grab" works. That's one less log entry.

 

Personally my feeling is that people should be rewarded for moving the Travel Bug, not just tagging it. However I need to accomodate those who will do it anyway.

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This sounds like a good solution.

 

I'm wondering if it would be worth totalling the number of miles a person moves TBs. Maybe an average miles moved?

 

Considering folks are going to be competive one way or another, the trick is to motivate them in a positive way. Insted of collecting "TBs handled" change it to "TB miles." Of course, some sort of check and balance would be needed, but I'm sure you guys could figure that out.

 

Like I said, the trick is to allow folks to be competive in a way that is positive to the hobby.

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I'd just get rid of ALL the unique icons (except the commercial Jeep icons). That's the MAIN reason this has all got so out of control to begin with.

 

If you really want to curtail the activity, then remove the incentive for the activity.

 

Originally you had a Top 100 TBs Travelled page. To ge top ranking, virtual TBs were born. You removed that web page. Virtual TB logging was curtailed. Now you;ve added unique icons for certain TBs and Geocoins. Now people are icon collecting and the Virtual Gecoin/TB activity has escalated again.

 

The icons are the problem. Remove them, simply have a single Geocoin icon, and 90% of the acitivity will disappear overnight.

 

Yes, this will be an unpopular decision. Who cares. Very few people are going to quit over it. And in a few months, it'll all be forgotten anyhow. It'll be history. I'm sure there was an uproar when you removed the Top TBs web page ... but that's all water under the bridge now, isn't it? Removing icons will be no different in six months time.

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I'd just get rid of ALL the unique icons (except the commercial Jeep icons). That's the MAIN reason this has all got so out of control to begin with.

You want more cheese with that wine? Let the adults talk now, k?

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Good money was paid for those icons, and the icon collecting seems very popular for a subset of the community. Me, I prefer collecting geocache type icons, but that's just me. Similarly, I have never logged a benchmark, but I know that others derive great enjoyment from that part of the site.

 

There was also talk about moving all the geocoin icons onto a separate tab of the profile page, so that there'd be maybe just a total on the main statistics tab for "trackable travelers." That, combined with the suggested "touched it" log type, would make many people happy, while allowing others to do what makes them feel good.

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I'd just get rid of ALL the unique icons (except the commercial Jeep icons). That's the MAIN reason this has all got so out of control to begin with.

You want more cheese with that wine? Let the adults talk now, k?

You wanted a solution to the problem.

 

And by your own admission, nothing you offered would be a solution.

 

You should first own up to the source of the problem. Whether you want to fix the problem at the source is your business, but at least know where the problem originates.

Edited by dogbreathcanada
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That, combined with the suggested "touched it" log type, would make many people happy, while allowing others to do what makes them feel good.

And where would these "touched it" logs occur? That wasn't made clear. The various postings seem to suggest that the "touched it" log would still occur on the cache page. How is this a solution to crowded cache pages, unwanted email notifications, etc.? I'd delete a "touched it" log entry on my cache page as quickly as I would a virtual tb note.

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Personally my feeling is that people should be rewarded for moving the Travel Bug, not just tagging it. However I need to accomodate those who will do it anyway.
Hi Jeremy, first time I actually reply to a post of yours!

What an honour! I am not worthy!,... )

 

How about the idea that someone else suggested, that a Travel Bug,

(including Jeeps), would only get counted in one's statistics

once it has been dropped in a cache, and of course,

a diffferent cache then the one where it has been picked up.

 

Oups, I just found the flaw to that theory:

People would simply drop these TBs in any cache they have already found,

and then grab it from there again. Darn,... :huh:

 

I guess the milage solution suggested above

could just as easely get circumvented the same way.

Double Darn,.. :)

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And where would these "touched it" logs occur? That wasn't made clear. The various postings seem to suggest that the "touched it" log would still occur on the cache page. How is this a solution to crowded cache pages, unwanted email notifications, etc.? I'd delete a "touched it" log entry on my cache page as quickly as I would a virtual tb note.

I don't see where it says that at all. You can log a note on a travel bug's page without having any effect on the cache page where the travel bug "resides" at that time. Why not a "touched it" log? Seems like it would solve a chunk of the problem.

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dogbreathcanada,

 

You must not be reading along. This is a solution to the "pick up" and "drop off" logs that occur on the Travel Bug page, not the cache page. Pickup and dropoff logs never occured on these pages.

 

And I think that the solution is perfectly fine by my own admission. I'm just posting it for folks to talk about it and perhaps offer better solutions. You seem to be too busy asking people to knock that chip off your shoulder to really understand the topic, so don't bother. If you continue to be combatitive and unhelpful we'll have to put you on another time-out.

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Oups, I just found the flaw to that theory:

People would simply drop these TBs in any cache they have already found,

and then grab it from there again. Darn,... :huh:

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought about in the original post (which is buried in there). The ultimate reason why people do it now is to collect icons. By just giving them a new log type to mark them on their stats page would reduce the common clutter on Travel Bug pages. It seems like a win-win situation to me.

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The ultimate reason why people do it now is to collect icons. By just giving them a new log type to mark them on their stats page would reduce the common clutter on Travel Bug pages. It seems like a win-win situation to me.

Yes, it works for that.

Edited by blackjack65
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You must not be reading along. This is a solution to the "pick up" and "drop off" logs that occur on the Travel Bug page, not the cache page. Pickup and dropoff logs never occured on these pages.

Are people going to actually do that though? They can, in effect, do it now, simply by "grabbing it." If "touching it" is simply another form of "grabbing it" and people aren't using the "grabbing it" functionality, then why do you think "touching it" is suddenly going to be the cure-all for the problem?

 

(Gosh, that sounds down right dirty! :huh: )

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Are people going to actually do that though? They can, in effect, do it now, simply by "grabbing it." If "touching it" is simply another form of "grabbing it" and people aren't using the "grabbing it" functionality, then why do you think "touching it" is suddenly going to be the cure-all for the problem?

Touching would not generate an email to the owner,

and would not need a grab from someone else to put it back in the cache.

 

Maybe it wouldn't even generate a note on the TB's page?

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Are people going to actually do that though? They can, in effect, do it now, simply by "grabbing it." If "touching it" is simply another form of "grabbing it" and people aren't using the "grabbing it" functionality, then why do you think "touching it" is suddenly going to be the cure-all for the problem?

Touching would not generate an email to the owner,

and would not need a grab from someone else to put it back in the cache.

 

Maybe it wouldn't even generate a note on the TB's page?

"Grabbing it" doesn't generate an email to the cache owner either. Only placing a TB in a cache via a Find or Note log entry does.

 

For instance, if someone arrives at an event with a TB and passes around the code. Everyone can simply log on and start grabbing it. They get the icon. The TB owner, at the end of the event, can grab it back to record that it is still in their possession. Like the "touched it" idea, that whole chain of "grabbing it"s (as described above) doesn't involve the TB touching a single cache. You can grab a TB off anyone as long as you know the code, a cache never has to be involved.

 

So ... how is "touching it" substantially different from "grabbing it", other than the fact that the TB doesn't change ownership?

Edited by dogbreathcanada
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"Grabbing it" doesn't generate an email to the cache owner either. Only placing a TB in a cache via a Find or Note log entry does.

 

For instance, if someone arrives at an event with a TB and passes around the code. Everyone can simply log on and start grabbing it. They get the icon. The TB owner, at the end of the event, can grab it back to record that it is still in their possession. Like the "touched it" idea, that whole chain of "grabbing it"s (as described above) doesn't involve the TB touching a single cache. You can grab a TB off anyone as long as you know the code, a cache never has to be involved.

 

So ... how is "touching it" substantially different from "grabbing it", other than the fact that the TB doesn't change ownership?

Once again, you are confusing Cache Log with Bug Log.

 

Grabbing a TB generates an email to the TRAVEL BUG owner.

Touching it would not generate any email at all.

 

Gee,..no wonder the Liberals got elected the last time;

some Canadians just can't read,.. :huh:

Edited by blackjack65
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Gee,..no wonder the Liberals got elected the last time;

some Canadians just can't read,.. :huh:

There are bad americans just like there are bad Canadians. There is no need to point at nationalities or politics in the forums.

 

But true that dogbreathcanada can't read.

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So ... how is "touching it" substantially different from "grabbing it", other than the fact that the TB doesn't change ownership?

I'll go ahead and bite. Bear with me because I'm not trying to be condescending here. I'm just trying to be as clear as possible.

 

A "grab" is when you actually pick it up. For example, grabbing a rock means you reach down, put your hands around it, and pick it up so it rests in your hand. When you grab a bug from a cache you are picking it up. The process of this will transfer the Travel Bug from the cache (a container) to you (a person).

 

When you drop off a travel bug the reverse happens. You place the travel bug inside the cache, where it transfers from you (the person) to the cache (the container).

 

Both of these actions are logged, but dropping off a travel bug in a cache creates a log entry on the cache listing because you are doing an action to the cache listing.

 

The proposed solution is to allow someone who spots a Travel Bug to post a log entry that says the user tagged or touched the bug. In this case the person touches, with a finger or hand, the Travel Bug, but leaves it behind wherever it happens to be. It could be in a cache, or held by a person, or even at an unknown location (which would be weird but is technically possible). However no action occurs to the Travel Bug, it doesn't transfer to anyone, and it won't generate a log entry on the cache listing.

 

I hope this helps.

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I thought that was GEOcaching ... not ICONcaching. :huh:

It's neither. We were discussing Travel Bugs.

 

Anyhow, I'm sure whatever solution you all find will be entirely inadequate and I'll still continue to delete Virtual TB/Geocoin logs from my caches.

 

I hope the explanation above will help you. As for virtual geocoins and travel bugs I'll just have to keep locking them and deleting the log entries. After a while they'll figure out that it is an abuse of the site features to do this.

 

Just to clarify, this was not a suggested solution for virtual travel bugs and geocoins. That's another topic.

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However no action occurs to the Travel Bug, it doesn't transfer to anyone, and it won't generate a log entry on the cache listing.

Still a little unclear to me :huh:

 

Would it generate a log entry on the Bug listing?

Would it send an email to the Bug owner?

 

By re-reading your posts, I now see that I made some assumptions.

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Would it generate a log entry on the Bug listing?

Would it send an email to the Bug owner?

Yes. Whoever owns the bug would get an email that it was logged. You always get a log entry for whatever happens with your travel bug or geocoin.

 

This solution would remove all log entries from the cache page.

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There was also talk about moving all the geocoin icons onto a separate tab of the profile page, so that there'd be maybe just a total on the main statistics tab for "trackable travelers." That, combined with the suggested "touched it" log type, would make many people happy, while allowing others to do what makes them feel good.

I like this.

 

1. Separate tab

2. "Tag" log

 

:huh:

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Oh OK,

This solution would only be beneficial to the Cache owner,

and create less traffic on your server. Thats fine.

I guess as a Bug owner, I do want to know what's happening to my TB.

 

BTW, I created 2 new topics that needed their separate threads, in the same forum.

I would appreciate your input on both.

Thank you,

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Can I add to your solution Jeremy,

 

Most of the coins that are placed in event caches that are intended to be "tagged". Would it be possible to create a "tag" bug that coin and travel bug owners could log their coin/bug into. Then after the event a cacher could log all the bugs that were in the "tag" bug simply by logging the one event "tag" bug.

 

The idea would be similar to setting up a group for e-mail accounts. The "tag" bug could get a number that is unique for the event.

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Yes. Whoever owns the bug would get an email that it was logged. You always get a log entry for whatever happens with your travel bug or geocoin.

 

This solution would remove all log entries from the cache page.

That's why I like this idea. As it is now, at least three types of email are sent out for every person that grabs and places a trackable in a cache (or event):

 

-The bug owner/bug watchlist folks get an email saying that someone grabbed the TB.

 

-A second email is sent to these same folks when the TB is "placed" back into the cache.

 

-The cache owner and everyone with the cache on their watchlist gets an email when the finder posts a note to "drop" the TB back into the cache/event.

 

This solution would eliminate the last two, since there would be no need to drop the TB to get it out of your hands and back onto the cache listing. This also reduces the number of log entries on the TB page and I understand it has technical, mysterious, behind-the-scenes implications as well that would reduce the load on the servers.

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I would like to chime in with the option to "tag" a traveller to get the icon. When I was at my fiurst event cache, I saw folks sitting at a table passing all the TB's and jotting down th tag numbers so they could log them. It not just a geocoin thing.

 

The other benifit of tagging is that the travellr stays wherte it's at. It gets confusing when a person drops the traveller into a cache and folks who are catching up on thier logs grab it out.

Edited by Moose Mob
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Ok, I think the majority think that this is a good idea. Granted it has only been on the site for a few hours, however...

 

What is this best called? Do we make up a new name?

 

The log entry would mean:

 

<user name> swatted <travel bug name>

<user name> touched <travel bug name>

<user name> pinged <travel bug name>

<user name> waved at <travel bug name>

<user name> collected <travel bug name>

<user name> tapped <travel bug name>

<user name> spotted <travel bug name>

 

I don't like the word "collected" since it sounds like the person kept it. "Swatted" is cute but doesn't work for geocoins (though technically I could have a different log name for coins and bugs).

 

Spotted seems like the best one so far.

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Most of the coins that are placed in event caches that are intended to be "tagged". Would it be possible to create a "tag" bug that coin and travel bug owners could log their coin/bug into. Then after the event a cacher could log all the bugs that were in the "tag" bug simply by logging the one event "tag" bug.

Wouldn't that encourage log laziness?

 

As a Travel Bug owner,

I much prefer a personal note written by someone who touched

the TB I put on on the road rather then an automated "Touched" log.

 

If you're suggestion was implemented, I sure wish an option on the

TB's setup page would allow the owner to forbid such automatic logs.

 

I can see how this restriction might not be needed for a GeoCoin however,

as the original creator is not mainly the one publishing it on the site.

But then again, a portion of Personal GeoCoin are,

so the option should still be there.

 

For Jeeps, of course, the text is probably useless,

as I doubt someone from Jeep actualy receives and reads all tose logs.

 

From my point of view, your solution goes to far into supplying a solution

for people using any type of hitchikers in a manner different then the one

it was intended to, which was to move physically from cache to cache

as opposed to only being kept and collected.

 

As a matter of fact, I think text entry should always be mandatory on any log,

even on those generated automatically within the TB page when dropped in a cache.

 

Wathever was entered in the Cache log should be copied to the Bug page,

to be edited later, rather then the empty text now inserted by default.

 

But here we go straying off topic again,.. ;-)

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However no action occurs to the Travel Bug, it doesn't transfer to anyone, and it won't generate a log entry on the cache listing.

Just to confirm something I'm assuming... it will still generate a log on the TB/coin page? I like to see who's seen them when they're at events... (if that makes sense).

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Just to confirm something I'm assuming...  it will still generate a log on the TB/coin page?  I like to see who's seen them when they're at events...
Yes. Whoever owns the bug would get an email that it was logged. You always get a log entry for whatever happens with your travel bug or geocoin.
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Just to confirm something I'm assuming...  it will still generate a log on the TB/coin page?  I like to see who's seen them when they're at events...
Yes. Whoever owns the bug would get an email that it was logged. You always get a log entry for whatever happens with your travel bug or geocoin.

Thanks for pointing out what I'd already read. I was asking to confirm. Reason being, you can get e-mails all the time but when you look, they're deleted/removed/etc.

 

If it's not counted as a number, it might not necessarly have/require a log.

 

Yes, what he said implies all that but you know what they say about assuming!

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