Cache Seeker V. Cache Hider Lawsuits?

[+Ice Tres]

Has anyone ever heard of a cache seeker who gets injured seeking a cache suing the cache hider for damages? Or suing the property owner?

 

I'm crossing my fingers this has never happened and never will, but I'm curious about liability hiding a cache near a potentially hazardous locale. Or, I suppose, even a raised root could cause someone to trip....

 

Please don't flame me -- I would never do this myself.

[+JohnnyVegas]

never heard of it,

[+radioscout]

This info is displayed on every cache description (print version):

 

> You assume all risks involved when seeking a cache. By using this printout you

> agree to the disclaimer posted at http://www.geocaching.com/about/disclaimer.aspx

Edited November 28, 2005 by radioscout

[+Ice Tres]

Yeah, I can see that probably gets Groundspeak off the hook, but I was more curiious about the cache hider him/herself.

 

I'm glad to see that at least so far no one seems to remember it happening.

 

THanks!

[+AtoZ]

you trip and fall over a root while walking a trail in a natioanal park. Now can you sue the NPS for not keep the trail free of roots or are you just a person that does not belong off their couch. Maybe people can sue couch makers for making them obese????????????

 

cheers

[+bobbarley]

I bet if someone placed a dangerous object in the cache or was deceptive about a hazardous placement, that they could be held liable for any injury caused by their actions. If properly informed the participant loses most of their justification for a lawsuit. Be clear in your cache logs.

Edited November 28, 2005 by bobbarley

[+Colorado Cacher]

Then I will sue myself for checking on my cache and getting a hernia and having to pay for it.

[+Markwell]

I got bit by a mosquito last year. I guess I could sue for the park not using pesticides...

 

You can sue for almost anything. The hard part is not getting the case thrown out and actually winning an award.

[ScottFla]

Maybe people can sue couch makers for making them obese????????????

 

 

Hey, don't give someone the idea.....

[+treasure_hunter]

I thought about this problem also. I placed a cache on my property on an ATV trail up the mountain. Read the bottom of the cache page!

High on the Mountain (GCPTMD)

*NOT responsible for any injuries while on the property, you assume all risks before retrieving this cache!

[+NotThePainter]

About 5 to 10 years ago I was involved in such a lawsuit. I was a witness to a sanctioned auto racing accident. In this case, there was a signed document from the injured party acknowledging that auto racing was dangerous.

 

I learned a few things from this.

 

1) The injured party will follow the money. I'd say that NPS or Garmin/Magellen/Groundspeak has far more to worry about than the hider. On the other hand, they have bigger lawyers than you can afford (ok, maybe not Groundspeak!) One of the companies involved was Chrylser because the injured party drove a car made by Renault. (Huh you say? When last sold in the USA, American Motors sold Renaults, they also sold Jeeps. When Chrysler bought Jeep, they also bought all of AMC's liabilities... man, that is so twisted...)

 

2) The existance of the sign liability waiver didn't do squat to keep the lawsuit from happening.

 

3) The whole process to about 10 to 15 years to complete, from original accident to the final day in court.

 

and the part that was most surprising to me was: The Secret Code.

 

When I was contacted by the lawyer for the sactioning body, I asked a lawyer friend of mine what I should do? (Not, I was a witness, there was never any question that I was even remotely at fault.) He said that I could talk to the attorney or not, but the first thing I should do was ask the attorney if he represented me. He told me that the attorney would answer "No" and then ask me if I wanted him to. If I said "Yes" he would now be on MY side. Evidentlly, they are not allowed to come right out and ask you, YOU have to initiate it.

 

So the meeting went something like this:

 

Attorney: Hi Paul blah blah blah...

 

Paul: Hi. Do you represent me?

 

Attorney with very pleased look on his face that I knew the code: "No, do you want me to?"

 

Hopefully you'll never have to deal with this, but if so, remember the Secrect Code.

 

Note, I am not a lawyer, shoot, I don't even play one on the Internet.

 

Paul

[+geobc]

So the meeting went something like this:

 

Attorney: Hi Paul blah blah blah...

 

Paul: Hi. Do you represent me?

 

Attorney with very pleased look on his face that I knew the code: "No, do you want me to?"

 

Hopefully you'll never have to deal with this, but if so, remember the Secrect Code.

Ok, maybe I'm just plain stupid, but what's the purpose of getting the lawyer on your side?? You were being contacted as a witness, right? How was it useful to get the lawyer to represent you?

 

GeoBC

[+Two Geeks and a GPS]

I thought about this problem also. I placed a cache on my property on an ATV trail up the mountain. Read the bottom of the cache page!

High on the Mountain (GCPTMD)

*NOT responsible for any injuries while on the property, you assume all risks before retrieving this cache!

 

I am placing a cache on my property as well and was researching this. Most states have "Recreational Tresspass" laws. Simply stated, if your land is not posted and people are "invited" either through signage, website, or the existance of a trail, and they get hurt you are not held liable unless they can prove some sort of negligence on your part. My property also has a state ATV trail running through it and I was worried about those users suing.

 

* I am not a lawyer and offer this advice as courtesy. Check your own state and local regulations!

[Tahosa and Sons]

If a cacher wants to sue me for placing a cache where its dangerous I have the perfect solution for them.

All I need to do is give the wrong coordinates and some false information.

[+The Leprechauns]

If a cacher wants to sue me for placing a cache where its dangerous I have the perfect solution for them.

All I need to do is give the wrong coordinates and some false information.

 

Someone's just trying to pump his Waymarking stats.

 

On topic, I'm a lawyer who has followed these forums pretty religiously since discovering them in June 2002. I cannot recall a single discussion of a lawsuit being brought by a geocache seeker. I think I'd have remembered that thread.

[+Rhett & Scarlett]

NotThePainter, great post... But I didn't know they had sanctioned auto racing ACCIDENTS!!!

[+Clan X-Man]

I believe that the old saying goes, Don't start nothin' won't be nothin'.

 

X

[+Harry Dolphin]

At risk of annoying the lawyers present, one of the major problems with modern America is frivolous lawsuits. People sue for anything and everything. "Something happened. Someone has to pay for it. Sue." Instant wealth! No one accepts responsibility for their own actions. Sue someone. Sue anyone. Juries are sympathetic. They want the same for themselves.

And who pays? All of us pay for it. <Soap box mode off>

In actuality, disclaimers mean very little. Yes, you agree to accept responsibility by accessing the pages. That won't stop anyone from suing. And wouldn't stop a jury from awarding damages.

[+Ed & Julie]

I was told by a co-worker who works on our bomb squad that a cache owner/hider can and will be sued civially in the event of a bomb squad callout.

 

Ed

[+Clan X-Man]

Please close this topic. You don't know how much crap can get started out of this.

 

X

[+NotThePainter]

Ok, maybe I'm just plain stupid, but what's the purpose of getting the lawyer on  your side??  You were being contacted as a witness, right?  How was it useful to get the lawyer to represent you?

How useful was it? I know that nothing bad happened to me a highly trained individual was being paid to make sure nothing bad happened to me.

 

A lawyer told me to ask the question. The lawyer I asked it of was visibly relieved that I asked it.

 

In my case, probably nothing could have happened to me but you cannot know that a priori, and it is good to have someone on your side.

 

Each case is different. In today's lawsuit crazed society it is prudent to protect oneself.

 

Paul

[+Lil Devil]

Ok, maybe I'm just plain stupid, but what's the purpose of getting the lawyer on your side?? You were being contacted as a witness, right? How was it useful to get the lawyer to represent you?

First off, I am not a lawyer, but I slept with one once.

 

I can imagine one scenario where it would be good to have the lawyer on your side. Imagine you're in court, telling what you saw, and the opposing lawyer attacks your credibility. Sure, you're not on trial, but you know what you saw, and this guy is saying you're a liar! Having a lawyer on your side at this point could only be a Good Thing.

[+treasure_hunter]

Please close this topic. You don't know how much crap can get started out of this.

 

X

Why close it, this could be very helpful. What kinds of problems do you think could result because of this topic?

[+NotThePainter]

I can imagine one scenario where it would be good to have the lawyer on your side. Imagine you're in court, telling what you saw, and the opposing lawyer attacks your credibility.

This actually almost sort of happened when I was being deposed. I was tell how the car spun around 180 degrees and hit the wall backwards. One of the lawyers kept questioning me, about how the car could have spun all the way around and hit the back, not the front.

 

My guy eventually interrupted him saying something like "Come on John, he went to MIT, he knows how many degrees are in a circle."

 

We all had a good laugh but the poor questioning attorney was so embarrassed!

 

Ok, so whey weren't impunging my ability, but it was funny!

 

Paul

[+Clan X-Man]

Please close this topic. You don't know how much crap can get started out of this.

 

X

Why close it, this could be very helpful. What kinds of problems do you think could result because of this topic?

We have certain individuals in SC that wish to do the good name of Geocaching harm. This person would like to see us governed and regulated as if we were some kind of criminal element. She had taken several things in the forums out of their original context and spun them to meet her agenda. Believe me that it can be done with this topic as well. Anymore more questions, feel free to email me.

 

X

[+treasure_hunter]

Please close this topic. You don't know how much crap can get started out of this.

 

X

Why close it, this could be very helpful. What kinds of problems do you think could result because of this topic?

We have certain individuals in SC that wish to do the good name of Geocaching harm. This person would like to see us governed and regulated as if we were some kind of criminal element. She had taken several things in the forums out of their original context and spun them to meet her agenda. Believe me that it can be done with this topic as well. Anymore more questions, feel free to email me.

 

X

Is it the person wanting to make Geocaching illegal in SC?

[+Clan X-Man]

Please close this topic. You don't know how much crap can get started out of this.

 

X

Why close it, this could be very helpful. What kinds of problems do you think could result because of this topic?

We have certain individuals in SC that wish to do the good name of Geocaching harm. This person would like to see us governed and regulated as if we were some kind of criminal element. She had taken several things in the forums out of their original context and spun them to meet her agenda. Believe me that it can be done with this topic as well. Anymore more questions, feel free to email me.

 

X

Is it the person wanting to make Geocaching illegal in SC?

Yep!

[+treasure_hunter]

Thats a shame!

[+CookCrew]

I was told by a co-worker who works on our bomb squad that a cache owner/hider can and will be sued civially in the event of a bomb squad callout.

 

Ed

I was very clearly threatened with this by a sheriff when a muggle called the bomb squad on me as the cache finder, not hider. I was told I could be charged for three businesses closed for 4 hours, Bomb Squad, Sheriffs dept, State Police, Fire Dept, Ambulances, even the Conservation Dept. I sure did regret going back home that way.

Nothing ever came of it though, Thank goodness. I don't know if the hider was threatened or not, but I know he did contact the Deputy running the investigation.

 

<edit> Oh BTW yes the cache owner did get permission to place it on the private property, the business owner was just out of town that day. </edit>

Edited November 30, 2005 by CookCrew