A Cache Places In A "special Bowhunt Area"

[+spamhead]

There is a cache around here that is located in an area that is designated for a "Special Bowhunt Deer Harvest" from October to December 31. The sign by the entrance to the road forbids driving on the road, but it is not a very long walk to get the the cachesite.

 

I posted a note on the cache page stating that I thought it should be deactivated until the hunt is over. The post is : <a href=http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=bfda8c27-fa52-4ecf-86cc-3ac53bc40a59/>

 

Did I overstep any boundaries?

 

spamhead

 

edit: I am a moron and don't lnow how to post a hot link.

Edited November 20, 2005 by spamhead

[Tahosa and Sons]

Well if it was in my neck of the woods I would break out my bow and go look for some meat. Out here if they go after caches during Elk Season I post nothing to the cache, they should know its big game season. So practice standard precautions during those times of the year.

[+spamhead]

That is true around here, also.

 

The problem is that this is in an area that normally doesn't have hunting. It is in a County Park in the Metropolitan Twin Cities area and the sign prohibits vehicle traffic unless you have the special hunting permit.

 

It doesn't prohibit access to the park but suggests people stay only on the trails.

 

I guess my concern was dealt with irritating the hunters who received this special permit to harvest in the park that is normally closed to hunting. I am not worried about the geocacher's safety as much as I am about hunter/geocacher relations.

Edited November 20, 2005 by spamhead

[vagabond]

When I was still bowhunting all the hunters I knew would make sure of their shot before releasing a shaft. Of course I imagine in the last 15 years there are a few IDIOTS out there that would shoot at a sound, I think a temp. disable would be a good idea

 

edit to add

Also being a special permit area I know I'd be very p=ssed off if I was in a stand or a blind and had some one come tramping along

Edited November 20, 2005 by vagabond

[+Coffea robusta]

Hmmmm....well public park and public access is not prohibited. But suggests you stay on trails. Look at mapquest it looks like this isn't too far off the road. I say go for it. But I like that your note suggests that we be respectful of the hunters (and all other park users for that matter). That's why parks are public!

[+dkwolf]

Of course I imagine in the last 15 years there are a few IDIOTS out there that would shoot at a sound, I think a temp. disable would be a good idea

Oh boy...here we go again......there was a thread not too long ago where this was beaten well past death, into a bloody, unrecognizable pulp...let's not do that here again..

 

As for the OP, I would simply add a note to the cache page alerting people to the fact that there may be a special bowhunt going on in this area. It sounds like there is pretty good signage at the trailhead stating such, but might as well add an early warning for people that don't want to get involved. Beyond that, try and respect a hunter in the park. It sounds like this is an urban park (twin cities?) and as such, I would put money down that any hunters obtaining permits to hunt this park have had to pass a test, probably both written and performance, to ensure they know the laws and are safe to be hunting in an area that may have non-hunters. On the note of spooking deer, with the general location of the park I'm going to guess this is probably a fairly well-used area; deer are going to be used to human scent in this area so likely the only way you're going to ruin a hunters shot is if you actually startle the deer as the hunter is preparing to shoot.

 

Oftentimes, when a special hunt such as this is issued, it is for one reason only--to control population. As such, many, if not all, of the tags issued will be doe-only. Meaning hunters in this park would not be trophy hunting, rather they're just looking for meat in the freezer. And, if such a hunt is created in an area that usually does not have it, it means that the deer population is so dense that even if you screw up a hunter's shot, he's going to get another. Still, respect.

 

Keep in mind, many of my statements here are based upon how things are done in Iowa. I'm only assuming it is the same in Minnesota (and with it being an Urban hunt, many regulations would likely be the same)

[+briansnat]

As for the OP, I would simply add a note to the cache page alerting people to the fact that there may be a special bowhunt going on in this area.

 

That's what I would do. If we started disabling caches because of hunting season, in many areas they'd be out of commission half a year or more.

Edited November 20, 2005 by briansnat

[CoyoteRed]

Even if you put a note on the cache page to not do [fill in the blank], some will do it anyway. It doesn't matter if it's a warning to approach only a certain way, day light hours only, or what have you.

 

If I wanted to keep good relations with the land manager who allowed me to place the cache, I'd disable and make it clear I removed the cache until I'm ready to put it back.

 

Additionally, you might want to disable it a couple of weeks before you really needed to, to give time for stale data to settle out.

[+Isonzo Karst]

spamhead, if you put that note on my cache page, I'd be mildly annoyed, but just ignore it. Unless the property is officially closed to folks without a hunt permit, then it's open.

 

Rather than disable the cache, the cache owner might list the hunt dates.

 

I update the hunt dates on all my caches annually. If I disabled or removed them, I might as well just archive the lot - hunting season starts in Sept (special opportunity Bow) and ends in May (Spring turkey). In the non hunt season it's hot and hurricanes.

[+4HoundsBrewingCo]

dkwolf summed it up pretty well but I will add my $0.02. Sorry....can't help jumping on this one.

 

If the cache were mine I would disable it. As a finder, you posted an informative note that suggested the cache should be disabled during this limited hunt. I see nothing wrong with that and would be happy if someone posted that on one of my cache pages (when I finally get around to hiding one!).

 

Yes, this is a PUBLIC park, but right now there is an event going on that the general public will have no part of. These bowhunters applied for and received special permission to thin out deer in an area otherwise off limits for hunting. They are taking care of an overpopulation problem that will otherwise result in hardship on the deer, destruction of the vegetation and loss of habitat for other animals such as songbirds (the same thing has happened here in Michigan....even the Humane Society was in agreement that the hunt should proceed). This is probably a smallish park and not general (open for hunting) state land. Why not just avoid this area for the small amount of time the hunt is going on? We are not speaking of disabling it for half the year as was suggested.

 

The argument about disabling during hunting season will continue as long as we share the space. It's all about consideration folks. Let's all be considerate of others while we look for McToys in the woods. There are plenty of other caches to seek that don't involve ruining someone elses idea of a great day in the woods.

 

Cheers!

[bogleman]

There is a state park in my area that holds "Special Hunts" and they close the area to the general public where the "Special Hunt" is taking place. No big deal, just figure out the rules the park is going by and simply post a note. I would not disable the cache. I am a hunter and I enjoy caches that are in hunting areas. If I am not having any luck hunting I can still find a cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

As for the OP, I would simply add a note to the cache page alerting people to the fact that there may be a special bowhunt going on in this area.

 

That's what I would do. If we started disabling caches because of hunting season, in many areas they'd be out of commission half a year or more.

I agree.

 

Hunting is a single land use. One of many. Cachers should be aware that hunters may be in the area but geocaching is also a valid land use. Our government likes multiple co-existing recreatinoal land uses. Thats their way of getting more bang for the buck out of public lands.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Why bother to post a note to a cache page when so many just download the coordinates and go? They don't read the cache pages unless they need the hint, then they look at their PDAs, by this time they are already in the area.

 

Don't worry about spooking the deer as they will stand still just a few feet from you and let you walk past and you will probably not even notice them. We've watch deer do this on a number of occasions. People will walk with 10 feet of a deer and NOT see it!

 

John

[bogleman]

Why bother to post a note to a cache page when so many just download the coordinates and go? They don't read the cache pages unless they need the hint, then they look at their PDAs, by this time they are already in the area.

 

SOL on their part. I did my part by posting a note AND including it in the listing with a link to the regulations

[+4HoundsBrewingCo]

"Hunting is a single land use. One of many. Cachers should be aware that hunters may be in the area but geocaching is also a valid land use."

 

Yes, one of many uses for the public land is hunting. The issue at hand is a special bowhunt in an area otherwise off limits to hunting. The hunt will ease the overpopulation of deer in the area which when complete, will benefit all that use the land through increased foliage below the "browse line" and enhanced habitat for songbirds and other wildlife.

 

Again, why not just avoid the area in question until the hunt is over? It is for a limited duration and you would be considerate to give the opportunity of land use to those that would like to hunt. We can hunt McToys all year round but those that like to hunt have a very narrow window within which to do so legally.

 

Cheers!

[+Moose Mob]

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Did I overstep any boundaries?

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Nope, not at all. As a community we should make sure all reasonable hazards are identified. Should the cache be disabled or not? That's up to the cache owner and the local community.

 

Yes, I would be upset if a group of cachers came under my tree stand chit chatting and bushwacking and following thier little arrows. Oh well. Such is life.

 

The guidelines do state that the cacher is responsible for knowing th ehazards involved with the environment the cache is it. Whether it be a 200 foot cliff, poison ivy, or hunting season.

 

So, go ahead and make folks aware of the environment and any potential hazards. And investigate the cache location before persuing it. It can save a lot of headaches.

[+welch]

There is a cache around here that is located in an area that is designated for a "Special Bowhunt Deer Harvest" from October to December 31. The sign by the entrance to the road forbids driving on the road, but it is not a very long walk to get the the cachesite.

 

I posted a note on the cache page stating that I thought it should be deactivated until the hunt is over. The post is :

Heritage lab

Did I overstep any boundaries?

 

spamhead

 

You can post whatever you like to a cache, either the owner will leave it, or delete it (or have you change it).

You and someone else have both noted the special bow season, and it sounds like its posted at the enterance to the area. You've done about all you can to notify people without the cache owers help. And unless this area is speciifcally closed to everyone else but hunters (walking, driving, etc.), you can't stop people from going there anyways (don't encourage extra people to be in the way of course, but can't keep them out).

 

If it were my cache I would add something to the cache page about the season and having to walk farther and probably avoiding the area one busy days. I doubt I would disable for a bow season. It seems to be a low pressure season (around me at least, not idea about twin cities areas), so encountering a hunter is equally low, and even if you did bows have relatiely short ranges and arrows are deflected by leaves and brush too easily to have a hunter flinging arrows at sounds.

[+spamhead]

Here is what I did to resolve the issue.

 

I posted the note on the cachepage. Almost immediately, the cache owner, who is also a bowhunter, diabled the cache. He said he was planning to do that if anyone raised concerns about that. He emailed me explaining the situation and posted a log on the website that the cache would reopen once the season ended.

 

I then emailed him, thanked him for the consideration and for taking the time to hide the cache in the first place. I also mentioned that I started this thread to receive guidance.

 

Thank you for your advice on this subject. I am going to close the thread.

 

Thank you Wolf0629 for being a wonderful cache owner/hider.

 

spamhead