Dumb Question

3.8k · November 10, 2005

Added to my last comment, when an English note is used up here, it is like a Scottish note being used in England, it is accepted but generally gets sent right back to where it belongs. (via the bank)

November 10, 2005

If you think trying to get rid of scottish notes south of the border is difficult you should try offloading Northern Irish sterling banknotes (of which there are several varieties including plastic ones). And as for the naming conventions Northern Irish people often refer to themselves as "Ulstermen" which is geographically correct although the ancient kingdom of Ulster includes three counties in the Republic of Ireland as well as the six which make up Northern Ireland.

November 10, 2005

Shall we talk about our flag as well?!

The Union Flag (or Jack as we shall see soon) is another can of worms..

Flag or Jack?

The Flag Institute answers as follows:

"It is often stated that the Union Flag should only be described as the Union Jack when flown in the bows of a warship, but this is a relatively recent idea. From early in its life the Admiralty itself frequently referred to the flag as the Union Jack, whatever its use, and in 1902 an Admiralty Circular announced that Their Lordships had decided that either name could be used officially. Such use was given Parliamentary approval in 1908 when it was stated that “the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag”."

However, the Royal Navy disagrees:

"The national flag of the United Kingdom is worn as a Jack at the bow by all HM ships in commission when alongside or when ‘dressed overall’. This is the only occasion when it is correctly called the Union Jack, although it is generally known by this name through common usage. It is also flown during Courts Martial and is the Distinguishing Flag of an Admiral of the Fleet."

It is often drawn incorrectly with the red diagonals going into the corners of the white border to the red cross. they should be drawn with flat ends.

Also it is often flown incorrectly (upside down usually), which is enough to enrage some citizens. A simple rule, thick white diagonal on the top next to the flag pole.

And it is sometimes drawn so badly (as graphics on TV sometimes) that it no longer represents any resemblance of how it is should be drawn.

This is a correct drawing of the flag. The pole would be to the left.

Anyway, find out more here http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/union-jack.html

Oh, and I'm British, born in England a citizen of the United Kingdom.

Edited November 10, 2005 by jochta

6.2k · November 10, 2005

To add extra flavour, several banks in Scotland print their own money, so there's no one 'Scottish £10 note' as such - there are several. Royal Bank of Scotland, Clydesdale (sp?) and others.

SP

November 10, 2005

...and the number of times the flag is hung the wrong way round is quite interesting, and people this I am the odd one for noticing.

We naturally have flags for each of the countries as well as the union (the UK). We (to my knowledge) don't have a flag fro Great Britain, but we do have a royal standard. We also have flags for counties.

Useless fact. You can erect a flag pole and fly the Union Jack and St. Georges flag without planning permission, but if you fly another flag (including a counties flag) you will need to apply.

1.8k · November 10, 2005

I would love to, however there is a slight glich in your thinking, all the notes up here are Scottish. Last time I seen an English note was back in July. Oh Yeah I was in England at the time.

Shame - mind you the English banks were happy enough to change the Scottish notes I brought back earlier in the year when I came to see how the midges were doing.

BTW your computer clock is still on BST, or is that Scottish time! :lol: :lol:

1.1k · November 10, 2005

At least that would be better than being England and having to sit next to the French!!

...and indeed the Scots and the Welsh too. It is indeed tough being English!

Almost as tough as being Canadian and having the rest of the world think you're part of the USA :lol:

3.8k · November 10, 2005

BTW your computer clock is still on BST, or is that Scottish time!

My computer clock and forum time are showing the correct time, I think?? :lol:

Time for this post should be 11:59? or thereabouts?

3.8k · November 10, 2005

To add extra flavour, several banks in Scotland print their own money, so there's no one 'Scottish £10 note' as such - there are several. Royal Bank of Scotland, Clydesdale (sp?) and others.

SP

Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland & Clydesdale are all the major notes in Scotland. Off the top of my head I don't think that there are any more.

1.8k · November 10, 2005

Regarding the Wales being a principlity thing mentioned above - yes Wales is a country, but historically it did not have a King at the time it was absorbed by the English crown. It was ruled by princes, and the English crown adopted the powers and privileges of the Welsh princes, and usually passed them on their the first son of the monarch. Scotland and Ireland had Kings, so when Ireland was conquered the English Monarch claimed the title, and of course, the English and Scottish royal houses were united, although the two countries operated as seperate kingdoms with one monarch for 100 years before the Act of Union in 1707 created one country.

As for the Welsh Assembly - it has a range of powers relating to Education, Health and economic developent and social welfare. Unlike the Westminster and Scottish Parliaments, it cannot make primary legislation, although it has powers to make secondary legislation. In other words, its powers to legislate are much more closely confined by Westminster than is the case in Scotland where large areas of Government are left for the Scots to make their own legislation.

[Rant] BTW - One thing that always really irritates me about the people who continually complain that the European Union threatens to destroy our distinctive natural character is - what county are these people living in? Which particular national character are they talking about? If the different regions of this fine country can maintain their character and traditions under a single monarchy and a single Parliament for hundreds of years, why should Europe make any difference? [/Rant]

November 10, 2005

In NI banks that issue sterling notes are: Allied Irish, Northern Bank, Bank of Ireland and the Ulster Bank. Northern Bank re-issued all its notes in early 2005 after the unfortunate incident involving £20-something-million going missing. Of course Bank of England and Scottish (sometimes) banknotes are used too. Bit of a nightmare really!

8.6k · November 10, 2005

(Mrs B chortling appreciatively at Haggis Hunter's joke from 10.23am....I've just come in for lunch) Edited November 10, 2005 by The Blorenges

November 10, 2005

On Banknotes.

Although referred to as 'Sterling', have you noticed that the word 'Sterling' does not appear on any Bank of England Notes?

Just a thought.

1.4k · November 10, 2005

But - Pound Coins with the Scottish Coat of Arms on are minted by the Bank of England.

..and of course, the Bank of England mint is actually located in Wales these days!

Neither of these are actually correct - the coins are produced by The Royal Mint in Wales which has nothing to do with the Bank of England.

Bank of England banknotes are produced here in Essex. They used to be produced by the Bank of England but in the last few the production has been contracted out to De la Rue limited.

Guess who i used to work for :lol:

Chris

3.9k · November 10, 2005

rynd, did you ever ask a Texan the same question about their "country" ?

Don't ask your Texan President about the GB/UK issue, though. He calls the place "Englandland".

A few years ago on Dutch TV news (yes, multicultural Holland) there was an article about Cardiff, in "the county of Wales".

Edited November 10, 2005 by sTeamTraen

November 10, 2005

rynd, did you ever ask a Texan the same question about their "country" ?

Some day I had thought about asking the Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, & Texarkansas (or is it texarkana) question but I may need to rethink the whole question asking thing.

1.1k · November 10, 2005

Is it true that there are more Scots and their dependents living abroad than currently live in Scotland?

Why's that then?

November 10, 2005

Rain

3.9k · November 10, 2005

...and the number of times the flag is hung the wrong way round is quite interesting, and people this I am the odd one for noticing.

About 50% of European flags are flown the wrong way up. The stars all point the same way (not radially from the centre) and it should be upwards!

1.1k · November 10, 2005

Here's a serious Q then.

The Union flag. How does one tell if it is 'upside down' or not. Looks the same both ways to me?

But then... I can't find micros

November 10, 2005

The Union flag. How does one tell if it is 'upside down' or not. Looks the same both ways to me?

Short answer - the broad white diagonal stripes are above the red ones on the left/against the flagpole

1k · November 10, 2005

So then guys....

Where does Sealand fit in to all of this?

http://www.sealandgov.com/

http://www.fruitsofthesea.demon.co.uk/sealand/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealand

LoL. I love it.

8.6k · November 10, 2005

Rynd - I hope you're taking notes...We'll be asking questions at the end of this thread..... Mrs B

(Now, can anyone refer any of this back into the area of "geocaching"? )

Edited November 10, 2005 by The Blorenges

1k · November 10, 2005

Thinking about it, I so want to put a cache on Sealand, it would rule.

8.6k · November 10, 2005

(Now, can anyone refer any of this back into the area of "geocaching"? )

Well done, that man Pid!

November 10, 2005

The Union flag. How does one tell if it is 'upside down' or not. Looks the same both ways to me?

Longer answer - as per the links above it is 3 crosses superimposed. Cross of St George is dominant (obviously) but then you've got to get the white on blue St Andrew's saltire and the red St Patrick's saltire into the same space. Heraldically you assume that the pole is on the left and the quarters (cantons) are ranked in importance top left/top right/bottom left/bottom right. As the Scots joined the union first (old versions just have the white diagonals) they get top spot in numbers 1 and 3 and St Patrick gets spots 2 and 4. The white strip between the red and the blue is an extra because you aren't allowed to have 2 colours touching - they must be separated by a metal (white or yellow ie silver or gold) (I can hear you asking about the white and yellow Vatican flag - you're right but that was just the church demonstrating that the pope isn't bound by earthly rules )

Of course as it was a long time ago was it the Scots who joined the union or the Scotch?

I'll get my coat

November 10, 2005

(Now, can anyone refer any of this back into the area of "geocaching"? )

Well done, that man Pid!

England, the Uk and great britain all stand on the grenwich meridian line which gives us our datum point for global positioning and time measurement

how about that then

November 10, 2005

Here's a serious Q then.

The Union flag. How does one tell if it is 'upside down' or not. Looks the same both ways to me?

But then... I can't find micros

It's no wonder it's flown upside down all the time

Edited November 10, 2005 by jochta

November 10, 2005

Here's a serious Q then.

The Union flag. How does one tell if it is 'upside down' or not. Looks the same both ways to me?

But then... I can't find micros

Think "Top Heavy"

The White lines of the diagonal cross are of different thickness, either side of the red.

The thickest white line should be at the top on the side of the flagpole.

Er - If that makes sense!

November 10, 2005

If you fly the union flag upside down, it is a sign of distress.

It goes back to the days before radio, visual signal

1.1k · November 10, 2005

If you fly the union flag upside down, it is a sign of distress.
It goes back to the days before radio, visual signal

Oh like ... --- ...

... .... .. - / . .- ... -.-- / .-- .... . -. / -.-- --- ..- / -.- -. --- .-- / .... --- .--

73 es gd dx de Jon G4UXG

November 10, 2005

If you fly the union flag upside down, it is a sign of distress.
It goes back to the days before radio, visual signal

It is also "lese Majeste", insulting to the Crown, and is theoretically a crime in the UK and commonwealth.

November 10, 2005

I was in the Royal Navy, I know ships used to fly it inverted as a sign of distress. didn't know it was an insult to the Crown

November 10, 2005

I was in the Royal Navy, I know ships used to fly it inverted as a sign of distress. didn't know it was an insult to the Crown

You'd probably be let off if used as a genuine sign of distress

November 10, 2005

... .... .. - / . .- ... -.-- / .-- .... . -. / -.-- --- ..- / -.- -. --- .-- / .... --- .--

73 es gd dx de Jon G4UXG

Sorry I'm only a no code tech here. I don't speek dit and dah.

73 KE4UUU

1.1k · November 10, 2005

Sorry I'm only a no code tech here. I don't speek dit and dah.

Well I won't translate the first word...

but the rest says 'easy when you know how'!

November 10, 2005

Actually I did figure it out that was just my clumsy way of saying hello to a fellow ham.

1.2k · November 10, 2005

Ohhhh G7BIM here... but I don't get that Morse Code stuff!

6.2k · November 10, 2005

If you could fly the Union flag upside down AND back to front it would look right.

Gosh I'm bored

SP

1.1k · November 10, 2005

If you could fly the Union flag upside down AND back to front it would look right.
Gosh I'm bored

So what happens if you look at the flag from the 'other' side... is it still corect?

SP - something for you to try out with paper and scissors...

3.8k · November 10, 2005

Thinking about it, I so want to put a cache on Sealand, it would rule.

You would have to get onto it first.

I don't see any bushes or rocks to hide the cache under though?

I bet everyone thought the Vatican was the smallest country in the world.

1.1k · November 10, 2005

Ohhhh G7BIM here... but I don't get that Morse Code stuff!

95% CW here (that's morse code to ham muggles...)

and that's why I don't talk proper innit.

Oh, and is BBC English 'proper' English?

I noticed a lot of broadcasters have a scotch xxxxxxx scottish twinge these days.

November 10, 2005

If you could fly the Union flag upside down AND back to front it would look right.
Gosh I'm bored

SP

Are you sure? If it was upside down and hung from the other side it would still be upside down... I think!

1.8k · November 10, 2005

All flags look the opposite if viewed from the other side - traditionally, flags are defined with the pole (the hoist) at the left, and are viewed that way in reference works. The flag will appear as mirror image when viewed with the pole on the right. For example, the US flag has the stars top left when the pole is on the left, and top right when the pole is on the right. However, as one quickly learns when studying vexillology there are exceptions to every rule - for example, almost any flag with with Arabic on it is made so it reads correctly when the pole is on the right. However, the Saudi flag has a quote fro mthe Quran on it and is manufactured with an extra panel of cloth so the text reads correctly on both sides - however the two sides are not identicle as the sword motif is reversed between the sides.

November 10, 2005

All flags look the opposite if viewed from the other side - traditionally, flags are defined with the pole (the hoist) at the left, and are viewed that way in reference works. The flag will appear as mirror image when viewed with the pole on the right. For example, the US flag has the stars top left when the pole is on the left, and top right when the pole is on the right. However, as one quickly learns when studying vexillology there are exceptions to every rule - for example, almost any flag with with Arabic on it is made so it reads correctly when the pole is on the right. However, the Saudi flag has a quote fro mthe Quran on it and is manufactured with an extra panel of cloth so the text reads correctly on both sides - however the two sides are not identicle as the sword motif is reversed between the sides.

I think Libya has got the right idea. Would save all this confusion..

Libya Flag

I vote for pink...

8.6k · November 10, 2005

If you could fly the Union flag upside down AND back to front it would look right.
Gosh I'm bored

SP

Yeah, so am I!

We've had every possible permutation of our glorious flag...all we need now is for The Royles to fold it into an origami crane....

PLEASE somebody, start a new topic! Mrs B

1.1k · November 10, 2005

vexillology

Sheesh I must be in the wrong forum... going to bed guys!

1.8k · November 10, 2005

Personally I think the Turkmenistan flag is the coolest in the world. There are flags with stars, crosses, eagles, lions, weapons etc - but only one flag of the world features a carpet!

http://flagspot.net/flags/tm.html

How chilled is that!

1.8k · November 10, 2005

If you could fly the Union flag upside down AND back to front it would look right.
Gosh I'm bored

SP

Are you sure? If it was upside down and hung from the other side it would still be upside down... I think!

No, SP's correct. If you turn it upside down and fly it from the other side, it's as it should be.

Yes, I'm bored too...

6.2k · November 10, 2005

That's just what I meant - as if it was flipped horizontally as well as vertically, and suspended on the 'non-flagpole' side, via, perhaps, magic rope...err... Still bored.

SP

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