Coins Made In China

[+Kealia]

Or the clothes you're wearing right now? Or if you have kids, the toys they have....

 

whoops---kealia didn't sign out!

Edited November 14, 2005 by kealia

[+Audion64]

Very well said, but where was your GPSr made?

Like I said, I'll do my best.... unfortunately for all too many items, it's just not possible.

 

Trust me, if there was an option available, even if it cost a bit more, I would gladly do it.

[+Audion64]

Or the clothes you're wearing right now?  Or if you have kids, the toys they have....

 

whoops---kealia didn't sign out!

Hmm, ok gotta do some verifying......

 

Jeans, Rustlers made in the USA (dug thru the shelves at the store and specifically picked out the USA made ones).

Shoes, New Balance 620's made in the USA.

Long sleeved thermal dress shirt, Sportsmaster made in the USA.

My hoodie sweatshirt I just took off, hanging on chair, Rider brand made in the USA.

Ok now we're getting personal... Underwear, Hanes Special Edition made in the USA.

Socks, to be honest not positive (no tag) but I'm 99% sure they are made in the USA.

 

Any other questions??

 

As for my kid's toys.... they themselves have chosen to make a conscious effort to look at where stuff is made when deciding what to buy. There are plenty of fun (usually scientific learning) toys made in the USA or Europe.

They'd rather do without a toy than play with one that was made by a child their own age.

[+IceCreamMan]

Whatever criteria one uses to spend his own money is, of course, his own business. However, I have to laugh at the suggestion that it's somehow altruistic to focus your purchasing power on goods made in Europe and the US. These are the most affluent societies that have ever existed. How does beating some poor schmo in the third world out of a job help him? Or western economies for that mater?

 

The best thing anyone can do for the local, national and world economy is to buy the goods and services at the best value. That will maximize wealth and opportunity for everyone by alocating workers and capital to the most efficient producers, thus maximizing the amount produced. If you buy something at a higher price simply because of where it's made, you are encouraging investment of labor and capital in an ineffient persuits. Labor and capital that would be more productively employed elsewhere. At the same time you are depressing opportunities and wages in the areas that could produce the product more effeintly. Just to make yourself feel good (which is of course your right, just don't try to make out that you're doing a "good" thing).

 

A good example in the American economy is ATT. For many years, ATT sucked up multitudes of highly skilled workers because they were able to outbid their competetors with the money produced by their government granted monopoly power. Once that ended, the layoffs and downsizing began. It was hard on the individuals involved, but it was part of what helped fuel the technology boom we are still enjoying. Not to mention the revolution in the telecom bidness. But there are those who argued at the time that we should keep these productive technology workers chained to unproductive jobs at ATT just to avoid the short term pains of downsizing.

[+Hula Bum]

64, you have made a choice to buy only USA bought whenever available obviously, (good, bad, admirable, not for me to decide). Be aware though, as I recall New Balance was one of the companies that was fighting in courts awhile back to loosen the requirements for the term "made in the USA". This was because not everything about their shoes were made in the US. So, in the end... This is very often the case with USA made companies. The product often has some part of it that came from some other country. (Be it ore, wood, fiber, spice)

 

As for the children in China, while we here may not understand it or agree with it, this is what feeds their families.

[+Audion64]

And I don't see how buying a $150 pair of Nike's made by an Indonesian worker making $1.25/DAY is altruistic or helping raise the Indonesian standard of living. I would gladly support Nike, if Nike would support the Indonesian worker rather than exploiting them and getting rich off their labor. Oh wait, they need all that profit per pair of shoes... to pay Michael Jordan his outrageous fee for a 30 second commercial.

 

You say by purchasing goods made in the USA or Europe I'm 'stealing' a good job from a 3rd world worker... no I see it as sending a message to the companies that would manufacture goods in those 3rd world countries simply to exploit the worker repressive environments in those countries. That message being... I refuse to line your pockets and be a part of your bloodmoney.

 

I'll end my replies here, because as you say... where we chose to purchase our goods is our own perogative. So I guess we can all politely agree to disagree.

 

BTW, if you think "Oh $1.25/day is nothing in the USA but that's a pretty good wage in Indonesia".... here's an eye-opener for you. It's admittedly a fairly long read but if you care an inkling it's worth understanding.

 

Living on $1.25/day in Indonesia

Edited November 15, 2005 by audion64

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

New label:

 

"Made in the USA by illegal workers using raw materials from the third world"

 

It's amazing this thread hasn't been locked!

 

Back to geocoins - I, as a non-US resident, and proud to have supported a creative design team from the US in the creation of my coin -- which were made in China. Not sure where the raw material came from though. Like geocaching, my coins are international!

[+budd-rdc]

I looked at some "Made in China" Geocoins after reading this thread, and I noticed a few flaws - for example, the head and tail didn't line up exactly - it was especially noticeable when I rotated it on an axis.

 

It doesn't distract from the design, but factors into the overall quality.

 

Personally, I'd love to see some GC waypoints near the factories in China where the trackable Geocoins were made. I'd virtually log the first entry there, to remind myself that due to questionable currency exchange policies, items that travelled thousands of miles still cost less than if they had been made much closer to home.

[+Renegade Knight]

Whatever criteria one uses to spend his own money is, of course, his own business. However, I have to laugh at the suggestion that it's somehow altruistic to focus your purchasing power on goods made in Europe and the US. These are the most affluent societies that have ever existed. How does beating some poor schmo in the third world out of a job help him? Or western economies for that mater?

 

The best thing anyone can do for the local, national and world economy is to buy the goods and services at the best value. That will maximize wealth and opportunity for everyone by alocating workers and capital to the most efficient producers, thus maximizing the amount produced. If you buy something at a higher price simply because of where it's made, you are encouraging investment of labor and capital in an ineffient persuits. Labor and capital that would be more productively employed elsewhere. At the same time you are depressing opportunities and wages in the areas that could produce the product more effeintly. Just to make yourself feel good (which is of course your right, just don't try to make out that you're doing a "good" thing).

 

A good example in the American economy is ATT. For many years, ATT sucked up multitudes of highly skilled workers because they were able to outbid their competetors with the money produced by their government granted monopoly power. Once that ended, the layoffs and downsizing began. It was hard on the individuals involved, but it was part of what helped fuel the technology boom we are still enjoying. Not to mention the revolution in the telecom bidness. But there are those who argued at the time that we should keep these productive technology workers chained to unproductive jobs at ATT just to avoid the short term pains of downsizing.

That sounds like my economics book. Nice in theory not so cut and dry in practice.

 

While AT&T was bleeding out (the Feds killed AT&T because the future of Telecom wasn't long distance) over the last 20 years odd things happened. Gas got ahead of minimum wage. Homes, fuel, energy, power, etc. all increased faster than my salary. Families that used to consist of one breadwinner and one home maker shifted to two breadwinners just to keep up with everthing else and are lucky to make a home out of it. My GM was outsourced to Mexico, Jeep to China. Meanwhile Toyota built factories in the USA and picked up market share. Deregulation of the power industry resulted in problems and not so many solutions.

 

Economic theory assumes that the players are rational, or at least rationally greedy and smart enough to maximize profits. They aren't, and I don't see corporate intelligence improving anytime soon.

[+Renegade Knight]

I looked at some "Made in China" Geocoins after reading this thread, and I noticed a few flaws - for example, the head and tail didn't line up exactly - it was especially noticeable when I rotated it on an axis. ...

I've noticed that. Flaws in color, the head and tail lining up, plating, and finish. There is a wide variation in coins.

 

Good point on the exchange rate of currency.

[+IceCreamMan]

That sounds like my economics book. Nice in theory not so cut and dry in practice.

 

While AT&T was bleeding out (the Feds killed AT&T because the future of Telecom wasn't long distance) over the last 20 years odd things happened. Gas got ahead of minimum wage. Homes, fuel, energy, power, etc. all increased faster than my salary. Families that used to consist of one breadwinner and one home maker shifted to two breadwinners just to keep up with everthing else and are lucky to make a home out of it. My GM was outsourced to Mexico, Jeep to China. Meanwhile Toyota built factories in the USA and picked up market share. Deregulation of the power industry resulted in problems and not so many solutions.

 

Economic theory assumes that the players are rational, or at least rationally greedy and smart enough to maximize profits. They aren't, and I don't see corporate intelligence improving anytime soon.

Actually, it is that cut and dry. The freeer trade has become in the US, the wealthier we have become. The poor folks today live better than my middle class family did 30 years ago (the Golden Age of GM and Jeep). Gas, while temporarily high, has over time gone down in relative price (ie, the amount wages will buy) as has almost everything else. While there are few areas that have gone up relative to wages, they are usually those sectors where the government has tried to "help" by protecting jobs and controling prices (health care is a great example).

[+Renegade Knight]

...Actually, it is that cut and dry. The freeer trade has become in the US, the wealthier we have become. The poor folks today live better than my middle class family did 30 years ago (the Golden Age of GM and Jeep). Gas, while temporarily high, has over time gone down in relative price (ie, the amount wages will buy) as has almost everything else. While there are few areas that have gone up relative to wages, they are usually those sectors where the government has tried to "help" by protecting jobs and controling prices (health care is a great example).

If it were cut and dry Then GM would not be moving their production to Mexico and Brazil while Toyota is moving it here. Per the theories you are advocating Both Toyota and GM would make cars in whatever country happens to be the best place to make them. Your theories are nice and neat in the book that both you and I read. It doesn't work in the real world because the people the theories apply to don't think that way.

 

Dont' be fooled by the price of gas relative to inflation. We don't use inflated dollars to buy gas we use the ones we earn. Relative to minimum wage gas is expensive. Much more so than mere inflation would have you believe. Relative to yearly income homes are more expensive. The only reason most people are better off now than 30 years ago is that more people in each family work. Single income familes struggle more now than 30 years ago.

[+Husker]

If it were cut and dry Then GM would not be moving their production to Mexico and Brazil while Toyota is moving it here.  Per the theories you are advocating Both Toyota and GM would make cars in whatever country happens to be the best place to make them.

Except that Toyota does have a plant in Baja California, Mexico. They don't have a plant in Brazil but is Argentina close enough? They also have plants in Thailand, Indonesia and South Africa. Not to mention Toyota opted for Canada last July instead of the US for a new plant.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

Except that Toyota does have a plant in Baja California, Mexico. They don't have a plant in Brazil but is Argentina close enough? They also have plants in Thailand, Indonesia and South Africa. Not to mention Toyota opted for Canada last July instead of the US for a new plant.

Baja might be for selling cars to the US but the rest I doubt. Canada certainly buys Toyotas so those could be both US for US and Canadian sales.

 

Meanwhile GM quit making Camaro's and Firebirds, but then decided to bring back the GTO by importing Holdens from Oz. I could of mispelled some of those.

 

Back to coins. I find it interesting that US Mints have a hard time competing with US companies that front for Asian companies and both the Asian's and the US company make a profit.

[Thrasher22]

The funniest thing is that there are only 72 geocaches in China, yet they manufacture geocoins like crazy.

[+Jamie Z]

I hate to jump into an already-off-topic thread, but I thought I'd throw a little interesting tidbit in here.

 

Some of you know I spent a couple months in China 1.5 years ago. While I was there, I usually worked alongside a couple of Chinese guys. One of them in particular was quite a treat, despite our almost-complete language barrier--although you'd be surprised at how much you can communicate using familiarity, hand gestures, drawings, and universal thoughts.

 

Anyway, one afternoon as we were putzing along in the boat, he wondered to me if we have any Chinese made products in the US. I'd guess he asked this because Chinese people have a great fascination with the US. In fact, the name for America in Chinese means "Beautiful Land." The Chinese people see the US as an amazing place full of opportunities and wealthy people, and I bet he silently hoped that even in the US, we have a need for a few Chinese products.

 

He about fell out of the boat when I showed him that almost all my clothes, my hat, my shoes, and some of the gear I had were all made in China.

 

Jamie

[+501_Gang]

China coin! I'll take 2 of each!! 4 if they are trackable!!