Is My Cache Too Difficult?

November 5, 2005

I made my cache a level 4 difficulty, it is a bird house that is nailed,screwed,bolted,chained,pad locked and the keys are hidden and hard to access. I made it difficult on purpose but one cacher told me,"caching is supposed to be fun and I had no fun this week". the cache is "my/house/is/locked" and I have warned cachers that it is difficult. (gcqw5r) I would appreciate comments. hndlbr

5.3k · November 5, 2005

Sounds interesting, but I don't see ANY dnfs on it...

4.8k · November 5, 2005

I figure as long as the difficulty is rated correctly you shouldn't worry. Caches are not required to be easy and people who seek hard caches should expect them to be just that. With that said, it does seem like people have to use some clue or hint to find the keys? If so, perhaps it should be listed as a puzzle cache, since even though the coords take the person to the cache, they still have to do some sort of figuring things out to open it. That designation might help to further warn those people who don't like doing such things. Personally, I think it sounds like an interesting cache.

3.8k · November 5, 2005

You've marked it as difficult. Tough luck for those who want a drive up. Leave it as is.

2.1k · November 5, 2005

as long as you're giving fair warning, anything goes...leave the cache as it is, and let people choose not to seek it if they don't want to go after a difficult cache...

22k · November 5, 2005

A travel bug owner may have said it since you have created a travel bug prison, but I don't see where someone said it wasn't a fun cache.

Perhaps you decided to delete their posting?

November 5, 2005

Nothing a sledgehammer couldn't solve, right? :unsure:

Kidding. Sounds like a great puzzle cache to me!

3.3k · November 6, 2005

A travel bug owner may have said it since you have created a travel bug prison, but I don't see where someone said it wasn't a fun cache.

Perhaps you decided to delete their posting?

I think it would be a cool cache as listed, as long as you didn't have the "take one, leave one," travel bug rule. These rules prevent many bugs from moving along, and make TB owners unhappy.

Other than the TB rule, I would hunt your cache if it wasn't 2352 miles away.

November 6, 2005

I tried to make it a puzzle cache but the programer changed it. The cacher who was upset did not log a dnf, he e-mailed me. the 12 dnf were a club who I did a geo presentation for and they loved it even though they spent 45 min. searching and did not find the answer, that is like 8 hours of searching. I showed them the solution and they applauded. I plan on rotating TB's and will not keep them locked up for long. hndlbr

Edited November 6, 2005 by hndlbr

4.8k · November 6, 2005

I wouldn't worry about it. You have it rated as hard, so then it is OK with me. If you think it meets the puzzle designation better, write to the reviewer who listed it and explain why. E.g. even though the coords are to the cache, finders have to figure out where the keys are. They might change it for you. But even if not, as long as rated right, I think it is fine. If people keep getting stumped, you might change it to 5 star difficulty.

3.9k · November 6, 2005

Fewer people visit hard caches. That's just human nature. If you want a lot of visitors, make it easy. If you want quality visits, then make the cache interesting and/or an interesting location. And interesting can include difficulty.

7.2k · November 6, 2005

The only problem I have with it is it's not a traditional cache. The only way it could be a traditional cache is if there is some way to access the cache without the keys.

If there is an extremely tricky way to access the cache--think 24 move Japanese puzzle box--then it would be a traditional. You could put a hint to the solution to the puzzle hidden somewhere in the park in case you think the box is too hard. This would fit the definition of "traditional" because it can be solved at the listed coordinates.

However, if you have to go and find the keys it is no longer a traditional. It is the very least a multi. The listed coordinates and the actual cache is the first stage while the place where the keys are hidden in the last stage. You have to visit both places twice: cache to get the clue, keys' hiddnig spot to retrieve the keys, cache to trade, then return the keys. That in my book is 4 stops--not the 1 stop required for a traditional.

Hopefully this issue would get cleared up.

As for how hard it is, I don't think there is any such thing as too hard. Nothing says you have to find them all. That's a favorite saying of the fans of junk caches, or "traches" as someone coined, "you don't like'em, don't hunt'em." Same goes with ones too difficult for you.

1.4k · November 6, 2005

I think as long as you rated it as so difficult it is fine. I have 2 small children (ages 4 and 2) and simply purposely do not pursue such caches because it is very difficult to find time to go to these myself and as I learned yesterday even a difficulty rating of 2 (or sometimes even 1.5) is hard to do alone with them in tow (I tried a 2.5 and a 1.5 yesterday with them and either they were just too restless (the 1.5) or the terrain, while very simple, was still just too steep and wooded for them (the 2.5). I didn't log them as DNF's because I'm pretty sure where they are and am going to try again with my wife along (we can take turns looking while the other's with the kids) either today or in the next weekend or two weather permitting.

I will say that maybe if you're really concerned add an encrypted hint or two. Then those who want the extreme challenge can ignore the hint and those who are annoyed can try the hint. If you don't want the hint to make it too much simpler just note in your cache description that you want people who used the hint to note it in their logs, hopefully they'll be honest (I would be, I have no shame in having a hint help me).

4.8k · November 6, 2005

However, if you have to go and find the keys it is no longer a traditional. It is the very least a multi. The listed coordinates and the actual cache is the first stage while the place where the keys are hidden in the last stage. You have to visit both places twice: cache to get the clue, keys' hiddnig spot to retrieve the keys, cache to trade, then return the keys. That in my book is 4 stops--not the 1 stop required for a traditional.

I could probably do it in one stop, and I know of half a dozen other cachers that wouldn't need the keys

We have a couple of caches in my area of CA that are similar. I'm not sure why that large group decided to pick on your difficult cache. I think it's fine the way it is.

I have no problem passing on a cache if I'm not prepared to spend the time to figure it out. Certainly doesn't ruin my day. Heck, if I'm outside hiking/biking etc., it's a good day

7.2k · November 6, 2005

I could probably do it in one stop, and I know of half a dozen other cachers that wouldn't need the keys

Yeah, but then it would be a 5 star traditional because of the special skills needed.

November 6, 2005

The rating is fine. Let'em deal with it. ... the only question I'd have is, what about a combination lock? Just asking. But I like it the way it is.

1.1k · November 6, 2005

Yeah, I agree with all of the posts here about the advanced warning that it is in fact a hard cache, so not to expect to run right up to it...sign the book...go off to the next one!

The only thing that I would do different is to make a seperate cache dedicated to Travel Bugs. The other cache should be easy and regular-sized in a location that you know for a fact that will not have a big problem with mugglers. Because this cache that has a 4 star difficulty rating, their are people out there who would be scared to do it and travel bugs wouldn't be able to move as easily!

Keep your chin up, and thanks for making this game of Geocaching fun and different from the crappy lightpost caches that we are getting used to seeing!

24.7k · November 6, 2005

The only problem I have with it is it's not a traditional cache. The only way it could be a traditional cache is if there is some way to access the cache without the keys....

If it's a box, it's a traditional cache. How you access it has no bearing on it, be it keys, SCUBA, or rock climbing.

Back on topic. If you rate it correctly you are good to go. It's hard to rate a cache correctly and so there are a lot of 4 star hides that are closer to 1.5 and vice versa. If you rotate bugs through it that's another bonus. You may have an actual 4 difficulty cache. That's fair. Anyone looking for a 4 should be ready for a 4.

38.2k · November 6, 2005

Other than the fact I think it should be a puzzle/mystery cache, it's fine. When I see a traditional cache it means I can find the cache at the posted coordinates and access it without any hocus pocus.

November 6, 2005

I tried to make it a mystery cache but the programmer made it traditional

3.9k · November 6, 2005

I tried to make it a mystery cache but the programmer made it traditional

I assume you mean your local Reviewer, not programmer?

I believe Briansnat has a point, where it is a puzzle to get into the cache. However, current definition does put this one as a traditional.

Since my caching style appears rto be similar to Mr Snat's style, perhaps the use of attributes would help us find those caches we are looking for when we are just ghedaed out to grab a few simplae caches that particular day.

4.8k · November 6, 2005

I tried to make it a mystery cache but the programmer made it traditional

Write to the reviewer and politely explain that it is a puzzle cache because of the need to figure out where the keys are (I am assuming that it takes the use of a clue etc to find them? If not it might not really be a puzzle cache). You could also point to this forum thread as a reference. Then they might change it for you. If not they will explain why it is still a traditional. You can contact them using the link for the name of the person who published the cache.

Edited November 6, 2005 by carleenp

2.2k · November 6, 2005

Edit: cache has been changed.

Edited November 7, 2005 by Quiggle

7.2k · November 7, 2005

If it's a box, it's a traditional cache. How you access it has no bearing on it, be it keys, SCUBA, or rock climbing.

You must have missed the part about going somewhere else to find some keys. If you are directed to more than one spot then it's at least a multi.

Additionally, the definition of "traditional" on this site starts with "This is the original cache type..." Clearly, this is not like the original types of caches and thus not a traditional.

...well, unless there is something else we don't know.

Edited November 7, 2005 by CoyoteRed

24.7k · November 7, 2005

If it's a box, it's a traditional cache. How you access it has no bearing on it, be it keys, SCUBA, or rock climbing.

You must have missed the part about going somewhere else to find some keys. If you are directed to more than one spot then it's at least a multi....

Agreed.

2.1k · November 7, 2005

it seems like it should be listed as a puzzle or multi cache

November 7, 2005

thanks to your input the cache has been changed to a puzzel cache,which is how I originally submited it. thanks

Is My Cache Too Difficult?

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