Getting Into Geocaching...

[+kb7sei]

I'm looking into joining the hunt and wondering about my options. I'd like to get a GPSr for other uses as well, like 4x4 offroad and hiking/biking trails. So I want topo mapping for misc landmarks. Routing isn't required, but might be nice. Good reception is required as I'm often under tree cover. I can find reasonably open spots for readings if needed, but I'd rather not have to more than nessicary. I don't want to spend a ton, so I've narrowed my list down to 2 units.

 

iFinder H2O

Explorist 210

 

I want PC compatibility (WinXP) and the memory card is nice. The fact that the price drop on the H2O includes the topo software, card, and reader is making me lean that way.

 

I'm wondering if you experienced members can let me know of any pros/cons between the two units. I'd hate to go for one only to find out I can't use some nice software tools talked about here or other limitations that you don't find out about till you start using the units in real life.

 

I'm a GPS and caching newbie, so any info would be great. If you feel like I'm missing a great unit, please let me know that too.

 

Thanks for any info! Hopefully I'll be joining you all soon.

[+IV_Warrior]

I think iFinder has less support from the geocaching "3rd party software" folks. I have no personal experience with either unit, though. I would, however, recommend checking the "Explorist bug" threads in this forum before making a purchase, though.

[+geobudman]

Okay, as a Lowrance user, I love the ease of use, now that I have figgered it out. Others may be easer, but evenI can use my basic iFinder, effecttvely.

 

I've Got a "geobuddy", who uses the most basic sporttrack (Magellan) very well. But he lusts for the mapping capability of my iFinder. And I paid less!!!!!

 

I can manually input the waypoints for our caches and have a route laid out in minutes, while he is still looking for the map of the areas we want to hit.

 

BUT--and this is a HUGE but, if you want advanced features that will allow EASY conversion to a format you can use go for the Garmin units--everybody, and even Garmin, seem to support mapping with them. It may seem trivial, but it really makes a difference! Waypoint conversion is the key--and Garmin seems to be ahead of the others.

 

Newbie perspective---

[+megamapper]

Comparing the hardware, I find the lowrance is simply awsome. I would go with the lowrance.

 

You have concerns about converting geocaching.com loc files into usr file.

 

I would just download the free GPSBABEL utility for convert LOC files into USR files. You'll have to work with a command line utility. There is a GUI version of GPSBABEL, but it's quite limited, so most people end up falling back to the command line version.

 

gpsbabel -i geo -f geocache.loc -o lowranceusr -F geocache.usr

 

And POOF, you copy the usr file onto the RAM stick, and load it into your lowrance unit. No problemo.

 

The topo maps are pretty good, and even the streets are quite nice! So you'll like that part. The route/waypoint/icon editing is workable. However track editing is NON-EXISTANT, aside from deleting them. The only thing I use mapcreate for creating new base maps on my gps.

 

With the Magellan mapsend, there is a similar issue. They will let you delete track points, but you can't add / edit tracks as well.

 

So you'll be somewhat dissapointed in the track editing area, no matter which way you go.

 

I ended up having to get a third package 'oziexplorer' for doing track/waypoint/icon editing. It would be nice if these GPS makers could include a decent track editor in their software.

 

Regards,

---- Robb ----

[+kb7sei]

Thanks for the info all. I don't mind using command line utilities to deal with conversion issues. I'm an old time DOS and UNIX guy, so that's no biggie.

 

megamapper: You mention converting and copying the info to the card. Can I just have a bunch of files on there with different names? One file with lots of caches? It would kind of stink to only be able to store info for one geocache on the SD card, so I would think this is possible. Once I get them on there, do they just show up on my maps as waypoints or something?

 

Sounds like the Lowrance is the way to go. I just want to have some idea what I'm getting into on the software side.

[+megamapper]

Thanks for the info all. I don't mind using command line utilities to deal with conversion issues. I'm an old time DOS and UNIX guy, so that's no biggie.

 

Ok then, you'll have no problems then. I really should throw a quick and dirty 'GUI wrapper' around the GSAK command line tool. It would only take about 4 hours to do, and would make the whole thing much easier to use.

 

megamapper: You mention converting and copying the info to the card. Can I just have a bunch of files on there with different names?

 

Sure. My ramstick has 512 MB on it, I could fill it with thousands of USR files. When you put the RAMSTICK in, the GPS does not load all the usr files automatically. You have to manually select, and load each usr file manually from the gps.

 

As you load new USR files, the gps 'merges' all the data found in the usr files with what it currently has in memory.

 

One file with lots of caches?

 

After you load all the USR files, then all the data would be in the GPS. If you were to manually save a new USR file from the GPS it would contain all the waypoints, tracks, icons and routes stored in the GPS. So one USR file with lots and lots of geocaches and waypoints is quite possible. I have a single USR file that contains 10,000 - 20,000 points of track data, and around 1000 waypoints and icons. All this is stored in *ONE* usr file.

 

If you are a premium member on this site, you can download a single LOC file that contains hundreds of geocaches. You could then GPSBABEL them into being a single USR file with all the geocache waypoints stored on it.

 

If your not a premium member, but are a Unix geek, you could use PERL to merge all the 'single waypoint' LOC files into one big loc file with all the data merged into one output file.

 

I suspect that GSAK could also help with the merging process as well, but I haven't gotten into GSAK that much.

 

In either case, your obviously better off keeping the number of USR files small number.

 

It would kind of stink to only be able to store info for one geocache on the SD card, so I would think this is possible. Once I get them on there, do they just show up on my maps as waypoints or something?

 

You betcha that would stink. You can load lots and lots of USR files onto the ramstick, or one file onto the ramstick that contains all the waypoints in one file.

 

It's all in how you create the file. The GPS does not automatically load the files so you would have to manually load each file into the GPS. So if you had 50 or more files on the SD card, it would really suck having to sit there and load each file manually. So keeping the number of USR files down to a dull roar is preferred.

 

Sounds like the Lowrance is the way to go. I just want to have some idea what I'm getting into on the software side.

 

I can understand where you're coming from.

 

You'll find that once you get the data loaded into your GPS, you'll probably never do it again, except to add the odd 'newly created' geocache. You'll also find that the amount of storage in the unit is simply huge, nutty huge.

 

I pretty much just leave all my data in the GPS as I haven't been able to 'fill' my gps with data.

 

Call me wierd, but I like using Google Earth to virtually fly over the areas that I've been out and about in. So loading my lowrance files into the free version of google earth is kinda handy.

 

Since your a Unix junkie, here's a quick and dirty perl + bat + gsak script that will convert a lowrance USR file into a series of files that GOOGLE EARTH FREE VERSION will slurp up. You simply load google earth, click file open, then select GPX for the file type. It will then load whatever GPX file you like.

 

You'll have to fix the paths in the bat file, but you can get the idea...

 

----------------------------- CONVERT.BAT ------------------------------------------

gpsbabel.exe -i lowranceusr,break -f lowrance.usr -o gpx -F lowrance.gpx

c:\perl\bin\perl.exe c:\perl\eg\gpx.pl lowrance.gpx

pause

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The first line of the BAT file calls gpsbabel to convert the lowrance USR file into a single lowrance.gpx file.

 

Lowrance.gpx as it sits will load in Google Earth, but looks like hell. The tracks only show up as one color, and it's hard to change the colors, line thickness's of each track individually. Icons and waypoints all show up as one big blob and you'll have to customize each ICON and WAYPOINT individually. When you start getting around 1000 icons+waypoints, well this can be a serious pain.

 

The below perl script reads in the lowrance.gpx file, and converts it into a series of files.

 

Each tracks is split out into its own file as trk_trackname.gpx

Each icon type is split out to its own file as ico_iconnames.gpx

Each waypoint is split out to iss own file as wpt_iconname.gpx

 

This lets you load each part of the USR file into google earth, and from there you can more easily customize the settings for each file individually.

 

---------GPX.PL---------------------------------------

#!/perl/bin/perl

 

if ( $ARGV[0] eq "" ) {

print "Correct Usage:\n\n";

print "gpx.pl <filename>\n\n";

exit;

}

 

print "Arguments $ARGV[0]\n";

open (FILE,"<$ARGV[0]");

 

system ("del ico_*.gpx");

system ("del wpt_*.gpx");

system ("del trk_*.gpx");

 

$state = "header";

$hcnt = 0;

while (<FILE>) {

chop ;

$line = $_;

 

#====================== WAYPOINT AND ICON PROCESSOR =================================

if ( substr($line, 0 ,9) eq "<wpt lat=" ) {

$state = "waypoint";

$wpt = 0;

$Waypoint[$wpt] = $line;

$wpt++;

while ( $state eq "waypoint" ) {

if ( not ($_ = <FILE>) ) { $state = "EOF"; };

chop ;

$line = $_;

$Waypoint[$wpt] = $line;

# print "waypoint[$wpt] = .$Waypoint[$wpt].\n";

$wpt++;

if ( $line eq "</wpt>" ) {

$state = ""

}

}

#=== We have loaded a waypoint or Icon===

$file = "";

if (substr($Waypoint[6],0,7) eq " <sym>") {

#==== We have loaded a waypoint

$_ = $Waypoint[6];

s/ <sym>// ;

s/<\/sym>// ;

$sym = $_ ;

$file = "wpt_$sym.gpx";

} else {

#==== We have loaded an icon ====

$_ = $Waypoint[5];

s/ <sym>// ;

s/<\/sym>// ;

$sym = $_;

$file = "ico_$sym.gpx";

}

 

if ( not ( -f $file) ) {

#---- File does not exist better add it to the list

$Files[$fcnt] = $file;

$fcnt++;

#---- File does not exist better puke out a header

open (WPTFLE,">$file");

for ($i = 0; $i < $hcnt; $i ++ ) { print WPTFLE "$Header[$i]\n" ; };

close WPTFLE ;

}

 

if ( $file ne "" ) {

open (WPTFLE,">>$file");

for ($i = 0; $i < $wpt; $i ++ ) { print WPTFLE "$Waypoint[$i]\n" ; };

close WPTFLE;

}

$state = "";

$line = "";

}

 

#================================ PROCESS TRACKS ====================================

if ( $line eq "<trk>" ) {

$state = "track";

 

$_ = <FILE> ;

chop;

$line2 = $_;

$_ = $line2;

s/ <name>//;

s/<\/name>//;

$trkname = $_;

$file = "trk_$trkname.gpx";

 

# print "newtrack $line. .$line2. .$file.\n";

 

#============== If file hasn't been processed before, better puke out a header file

if ( not ( -f $file) ) {

#---- File does not exist better add it to the list

$Files[$fcnt] = $file;

$fcnt++;

#---- File does not exist better puke out a header

open (TRKFLE,">$file");

for ($i = 0; $i < $hcnt; $i ++ ) { print TRKFLE "$Header[$i]\n" ; };

close TRKFLE ;

}

 

open (TRKFLE,">>$file");

print TRKFLE "$line\n";

print TRKFLE "$line2\n";

 

while ( $state eq "track" ) {

if ( not ($_ = <FILE>) ) { $state = "EOF"; };

chop ;

$line = $_;

print TRKFLE "$line\n";

if ( $line eq "</trk>" ) { $state = "" } ;

}

close TRKFLE ;

$state = "";

$line = "";

}

 

if ( $state eq "header") {

$Header[$hcnt] = $line;

$hcnt++;

}

 

# print "$line\n";

} ;

 

#========= Add end of XML data mark ======================

for ($i = 0 ; $i < $fcnt; $i++ ) {

open ( FLE, ">>$Files[$i]" );

print FLE "</gpx>\n";

close FLE ;

}

 

close (FILE);

------------------------------- END ------------------------

 

 

Regards,

---- Robb ----

[+kb7sei]

Wow!!! I never expected to get a great little perl script out of the deal! Thanks! I'm sure I'll find it usefull. I've gone ahead and ordered the GPS, so I should be able to fool around with it next week. I've got a bit of a learning curve on this, but it should be interesting, and I've allready picked up a LOT of info on this board.

[+megamapper]

Wow!!! I never expected to get a great little perl script out of the deal! Thanks! I'm sure I'll find it usefull. I've gone ahead and ordered the GPS, so I should be able to fool around with it next week. I've got a bit of a learning curve on this, but it should be interesting, and I've allready picked up a LOT of info on this board.

BTW: are you a Amateur Radio Operator?

 

 

I also threw together a quick and dirty 'snake code' program that will act as a front end to GPSBABEL. You probably won't need it (being a UNIX junkie), but what the heck, may as well let you know about it.

 

I am not sure if it will work on WIN95, WIN98, WIN/ME. I've attempted to make it 'compatable' with these versions of windows, but I'm not sure. I am reasonably sure it likes NT 4.0, Win 2000, Win XP, Win 2003.

 

Download GSAK 1.2.7, and install it on your computer. (Unzip the files someplace on your C drive ). There is a GUI version which is really 'stripped down' and does not have all the options available. So for me, I ended up falling back to the command line version which is much richer in capabilities.

 

So to make your lives a little nicer:

 

Download Download GSAK 1.2.7, and unzip the files some-place on your computers C drive.

 

Next, download the GPSBABEL Wrapper and save it directly to your desktop.

 

When you run it, it will automatically:

1. Locate the copy of GPSBABEL.EXE

2. Figure out what command line options are available.

3. Guide you through a wizard like process for doing the conversions.

4. Remember what you did, so you can more easily re-run the conversions.

 

Issues:

Dunno if it works on WIN98/95/ME?

 

The search may locate an older copy of GPSBABEL.EXE. The third screen will show you which copy of GPSBABEL.EXE was located on the 3rd screen. If you find that it is running the wrong copy, then simply rename the bad copy temorarily and run wrapper once, then rename the file back, if you're so inclined. Remember to check that you have the current version, which should be 1.2.7. I've noticed an ancient version of GPSBABEL in the Google Earth directory!

 

The program is written using Wise installer. That means it needs admin rights to the desktop. It sucks, but what do you expect for a free program. It also writes to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\GPSBABEL registry keys for storing various settings.

 

The program does not support GPSBABEL filtering options.

 

The program does not properly support SERIAL / USB gps's very well. It will try to add a -f <file> option to the command.

 

That's about the only issues I can see coming up.

 

Regards,

---- Megamapper -----

[+kb7sei]

BTW: are you a Amateur Radio Operator?

 

Yup! I figgured someone on here would recognize a callsign. Not very active right this minute, but I try to get on the air once in a while. All 2M currently though.

 

Thanks for the GUI link. I'll check it out. I'll probably end up on the good old command line, but it's nice to play with the new toys.

[+kb7sei]

I got my iFinder H2O today. It's a nice little unit. The 64MB SD card sure doesn't go very far for maps though. I can only get about 3/4 of Utah in it. That's enough for most of my uses, but I'd like to use it for trips to and around Phoenix so I guess I'll have to spring for a 512MB card. I just got it and allready I'm adding accessories!

 

I had a minor problem getting waypoints loaded. It just didn't want to load all of them. I exported from GSAK using a custom export command to call GPSBabel. It converted 1000 waypoints and MapCreate loaded them fine on the computer. When I put the usr file on the card and told the GPS to load the waypoints, it gave an error saying there wasn't enough space. I tried deleting them all and loading 400 points in. That worked fine and showed about 20% space used. So I should have been able to get the rest in. I managed to do it, but it was a bit of a pain. The other 600 just didn't want to work. So I exported them into .loc format from GSAK and downloaded the beta of GPSBabel and used that for the other 600. Then I cleared the memory, loaded the 400 file, then the new 600 and it worked. I then saved the data back out so I have a clean backup.

 

Not sure what the deal was. Maybe there was a bugfix in the beta, maybe I just had an issue in the GSAK data. Maybe I just didn't do the magic dance. So far, I like the unit and I'm looking forward to my first cache hunt with it.

 

Thanks for the help!! I'm sure I'll be back with more questions!

 

Edit for updates. Turns out I didn't read the specs enough. The H2O only supports 1000 user waypoints. So now that I have 1000 in there, I can't add any more. I'll have to break them up into seperate usr files on the card and load the ones I want when I change regions or something. But the usr files are TINY so I can have a ton of them on the card if I want to, so it's all good. Now I just need to go find a cache with the thing!

Edited November 10, 2005 by kb7sei