Night Caches With Trail Markers

[+Bill & Tammy]

I want to do our first night cache using trail markers (fire tacks). Can someone offer tips regarding distance between tack placement or any thing else I need to take into account?

[Hugh Jazz]

I just deployed a night cache here in Wichita using Firetacks (the super-stealth color):

 

Night of the Revors - 3rd Moon of Planet Essiada 2 (GCPQAD)

 

The firetacks are deployed about every 50-100 feet. They are very tiny and this park is well lighted at night. Much depends on the nature of the light source your finders will be using. I recommend a headlamp. At the very least the light source must be held up near the eyes or the firetacks are nearly invisible.

 

Firetacks are an ideal solution for urban night caches. This park has very heavy muggle traffic and so far no one has messed with the firetacks.

[+Snake & Rooster]

1. FireTacks work best if they are on the side of the tree or pole.

2. You can use hotmelt glue to afix them to rocks or just about anything where you can't use the tack point itself.

3. Make sure you tell people in your directions that they are retro-reflective, and can only be seen clearly when you hold the light at eye level.

4. We placed them about 100 feet apart for the most part, but you can easily place them farther apart if the terrain permits. A lot is dependent on the kind of flashlight that the cachers use to find them.

5. Finally, the white or stealth ones are the most difficult to see in the daytime, depending on where you place them.

[Utsman]

Wow this gave me a new idea for a cache to place in my area thanks

[+webscouter.]

Hi Bill,

 

If you are placing the cache this fall I would recommend placing the firetacks closer than you think you need them. In the spring and summer when the leaves come back on some of them will get lost in the foliage.

[+wornout]

Along the lines of the prior post, you might want to think about giving the final position of the cache in the description, if you want people to find it. I didn't do that at first and the cactus growth covered some of them up, ruining an evening for some cachers who were here on vacation (this cache is in Baja, Mexico). I now have the final location of the cache so they can get credit for what I consider a hard cache and most won't get the chance to come back and try later. Just a thought. My cache is GCHB61, San Felipe After Dark.

[+Riddlers]

Okay, you seem to all agree that fire tacks are best but where can you get them? The closest night cache from us is over 10 miles away to it would be fun to do one here.

[+Bill & Tammy]

I get them from our local Wal-Mart hunting section, but I think you can also order them directly; Fire Tacks

Edited November 2, 2005 by Bill & Tammy

[+Colorado Cacher]

I get them from our local Wal-Mart hunting section, but I think you can also order them directly; Fire Tacks

Hee, Hee, Hee, somebody else found these also. The hunting section has alot of Geo items is all I am saying.

[Clan Riffster]

On my night cache, Etch-O-Sketch, I decided not to use fire tacks. I noticed several years ago, using them for hunting, that the tack end would rust, causing the reflective end to fall to the ground. I addressed this complaint with the company in the hopes that they'd change to a stainless shaft, but never heard back from them. Not sure if they changed it or not.

 

I decided to use 3M reflective tape, cut into 1"x1/2" triangles, stapled to tree trunks using heavy duty staples. The staples are not stainless, but for some reason, they haven't started rusting...yet. I point the tip of the triangle in the direction of the next reflector, I.e; Pointed up = straight ahead, pointed left = left turn, pointed 45 degrees = slight turn. The starting & endin points have a red&white reflective "X" made out of striped 3M tape.

[+ChileHead]

I'd recommend placement of the final cache first, and working your way backwards placing the tacks, rather than starting at the beginning. This will allow you to make sure that standing at point N, you can see firetack N+1.

 

When I placed my night cache using firetacks Fireflies I used about 20 firetacks or so. Had I started at the beginning place them, it would have been difficult to verify that each point is viewable from the previous point.

[+Kit Fox]

A good website to visit is http://www.nightcaching.org/

 

I have two caches hidden using Trail Tacks. I bought them on clearance last year for ten cents per box .

 

Here are links to my two caches, if you need some ideas.

 

The Haunted Forest (Night Cache)

The Haunted Forest (Night Cache) Part Two

 

My latest creation involves a "Scare crow" Owl, purchased at Lowes with Blinking red LEDs. I have to place "Hooty" in a remote, forested area, because the red LEDs can be seen over 500 feet away .

 

Good luck on your venture!

[ATMouse]

Kit Fox, re: website nightcaching.org, I don't read German....

 

Tho' I can puzzle out some of it, how can I convert it to english?

[+Kit Fox]

Kit Fox, re: website nightcaching.org, I don't read German....

 

Tho' I can puzzle out some of it, how can I convert it to english?

Click on the English Flag, and it will convert the text to English.

[+briansnat]

I want to do our first night cache using trail markers (fire tacks). Can someone offer tips regarding distance between tack placement or any thing else I need to take into account?

Two things you need to take into account. First make sure the area is open at night. You don't want to place a night cache in a park that closes at sunset.

 

Second, make sure its far enough from homes so people wandering around in the dark with flashlights won't generate a call to the police.

 

These are the two things that are making it very difficult for me to find a place to put a night cache in my area. Most local and all county and state parks, state forests and WMAs close at dusk. Any other public land is surrounded with homes.

[ATMouse]

Thanks, Kit Fox!!!

[+Riddlers]

I love the idea of a cave cache using reflectors. I know most caves have a cache near the entrance but what an idea to put a cache inside and use the night caching any time of day in the cave.

[+nfa]

I just used firetacks for a halloween night hike as a part of a halloween event HERE

 

Everybody had a great time, and I'm going to use them again to make a longer night cache.

[+Bill & Tammy]

I get them from our local Wal-Mart hunting section, but I think you can also order them directly; Fire Tacks

When I was in the store yesterday I noticed someone had bought up all the waterproof match tubes that were there earlier in the week. Keep expecting a bunch of micros to pop up around here soon

 

Oops, did I reveal another geo item from Wal-Mart?

Edited November 2, 2005 by Bill & Tammy

[+wavector]

I want to do our first night cache using trail markers (fire tacks). Can someone offer tips regarding distance between tack placement or any thing else I need to take into account?

I just placed a night cache and I will be happy to tell you about the challenges I faced. This night cache is the first night cache in my area. After several dry runs and much reworking I am happy to report that my beta testers (my children, my wife, my mom etc..) tell me it is the best cache I have ever done.

I didn't want to buy a set number of markers and I didn't want to "tack" anything, I wanted to adjust the marker sizes and I wanted to be free to use as many markers as I required so here is what I did, I made my own markers. I used a red reflective tape I found in the bike safety section. I purchased a faucet supply tube and cut it into sections, I made two sizes 1" and 1/2". I wrapped the tape around the cylinders and after I had the cylinders wrapped I got some 20 lb fishing line. I tied pieces of fishing line to 1/2" long stainless steel screws and then threaded the line through the cylinders of faucet supply material, I pushed the screws in one end of the cylinder then filled the cylinders with silicon. The screws added weight and anchored the fish line. Once they were dry I got some christmas tree ornament hooks and tied the fishing line to those. I made about 50 and used about forty to set the cache. I used the large ones for trail-end, trail-branch and opening markers, they are easy to see and it helps if the first few marks are easy to see and identify. I used the smaller markers for intermediate markers. I used the reflective tape to create the X's I used to mark the trailhead as well. I placed the geocache in the day and worked from the trailhead towards the cache site. I used a stepladder and suspended the trail markers about ten feet high over the trail. I visited the cache site over several consecutive days and nights to test the trail and the cache hiding spot, the trail needed to be adjusted. The cache hide is also based upon reflective tape and the hiding of the cache in a "night hide" at the end of the "night trail" was more work than making the trail. I had to use several beta testers to eliminate the "I have been here already" factor in testing, new eyes showed flaws that I and previous visitors missed. I adopted my wifes advice (shorter and easier) after my first night trial run. the next day I went back and eliminated all false trails and shortened the cache by a 1/2 mile. This cache was a large investment of time, it wasn't the most work I have put into a cache but this cache required extensive testing prior to release, more testing than any other cache I have placed. The markers are nice and bright at night and you don't see them in the day because of the height and their placement over the trail.

I used some white reflective tape I found in the RV section to create the sets of reflectors used near the cache site, the difference in colour marked the transition from trail to glen, trek to search. I placed the material down inside a tube to prevent a light from seeing it "at angle", the opaque tube means you have to be looking in the right direction from the right spot or you see nothing. It also means the tubes can be camoflaged so they can't be seen in the day. I was happy with the way the markers went up, very easy to hang the hooks and easy to move around, there were no reflective issues. The cylinder shape means they reflect for every flashlight very well and even the dimmer flashlights could see them. No one has found it yet but that just means that no one else has found it ! This cache was found quite a few times by the beta testing crew for whom I build these caches before it was ever listed, of course the log book is not signed.

[+edscott]

My tacks are from Cabela's. I placed them 50 to 75 meters beyond each trail junction. Guess the trail.. then find out if you are right!! If not go back and try another trail. So far there have only been good reviews.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...2d-69d3264fd2dc

[+nfa]

one of the consistent arguments against firetacks is their expense...I recently bought some from their Bargain Basement where the tacks can be had for lots less.

[+edscott]

one of the consistent arguments against firetacks is their expense...I recently bought some from their Bargain Basement where the tacks can be had for lots less.

Could be wrong but I think Cabela's was cheaper..

[hide & seekers]

There's a new cache in my area that sounds pretty similiar. I haven't been able to check it out yet.

 

Follow the Dots

[+GSVNoFixedAbode]

I've used firetacks on a couple of caches:

Glowworms and Fireflies

and

Spooky Hollow

 

I can recommend the tacks - and sourcing them via their website and delivered here (NZ) was a breeze. I did find that the for anything more than 50 ft I'd switch from Stealth to White tack, and leave the Blaze / orange ones for the final cache itself. And yes, seasonal checks need to be made if you place them anywhere near vegetation. It's easy to have one or two become obscured over a few months.

[+CompuCash]

1. FireTacks work best if they are on the side of the tree or pole.

2. You can use hotmelt glue to afix them to rocks or just about anything where you can't use the tack point itself.

3. Make sure you tell people in your directions that they are retro-reflective, and can only be seen clearly when you hold the light at eye level.

4. We placed them about 100 feet apart for the most part, but you can easily place them farther apart if the terrain permits. A lot is dependent on the kind of flashlight that the cachers use to find them.

5. Finally, the white or stealth ones are the most difficult to see in the daytime, depending on where you place them.

 

have a set of serious question for you here -

 

1 - which side is that on a round object?

 

2 - how do you use a hot melt glue gun out in the forest?

Do you carry a really long extension cord?

 

3 - does that assume the tack is at eye level?

what if they are down low? If retro-reflective means in a single direction back to the light, then does a low level tack have to be aimed up at 'eye level'? Who's eyes?

cc\

Edited November 4, 2005 by CompuCash

[+TeamGuisinger]

K Mart has trail marking tacks for $.99 per box of 50. They also have rolls of reflective tape in the auto section for $1.99 a roll, and regular tacks for$.99 per 100. To make them unidirectional, use a chapstick lid painted black or brown, and stick the tack inside with the point poking through the top of the lid and into whatever you are attaching it to. For 3-d tacks just use the plastic tacks that look like a rook in chess. Roll a piece of the reflective tape around the tack like a tube, and viola. Thinking of making a night cache using windchimes as an offset, follow the chimes up the hill kinda thing. Whaddya think?

[+Wacka]

What happens if it isn't windy?

Wont last -muggles will take them.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I have two night caches

 

After Hours

On this cache the tacks are 50-100 feet apart.

 

Living dead

On this cache the tacks are as much as 200 feet apart, as such this cache requires a very powerfull light. Four batteries or more and LED lights will not work on this cache.

 

I have looked in my local walmart and have never seen fire tacks there so I have been bying them form Firetacks directly

Edited November 23, 2005 by JohnnyVegas

[+TeamGuisinger]

What happens if it isn't windy?

Wont last -muggles will take them.

 

The spot I was thinking of is on a hill, and I dont remember a time when the wind wasn't blowing at least a little. 10 or 15' off the ground should control the muggles if the 1000 acres of trees dont.

[+kent1915]

I have set my firetacks a bit farther and increased the rating. I have set them about every 150 feet. Hope it helps.

[Rice81]

I think that a new icon should be established for night caches. It is a difficult cache type to find and involves a lot of work on the part of the owner and it is a pity that only a few people do go out of their way to find one. This way more people would be enocuraged to find one. Of course, certain rules should be made to authenticate that it is a true night time cache.

[+CompuCash]

K Mart has trail marking tacks for $.99 per box of 50. They also have rolls of reflective tape in the auto section for $1.99 a roll, and regular tacks for$.99 per 100. To make them unidirectional, use a chapstick lid painted black or brown, and stick the tack inside with the point poking through the top of the lid and into whatever you are attaching it to. For 3-d tacks just use the plastic tacks that look like a rook in chess. Roll a piece of the reflective tape around the tack like a tube, and viola. Thinking of making a night cache using windchimes as an offset, follow the chimes up the hill kinda thing. Whaddya think?

 

went to the big K and wally world and neither had the trail markers -

 

but I did find them on line in several places.

 

cc\

[+olbluesguy]

I have oneNight time @ Deep hollow

 

That starts out in the middle of a lake , and has some reflectors that are .10 of a mile apart.

Not too many takers yet.

[+Iowa Tom]

At my (Tom's) Corner of the Iowa Geocachers Organization I recently posted this article which may be of interest here.The article is titled, "The Way I Secure Fire Tacks To Trees".

 

-it

[+TeamGuisinger]

Went to the evil Wal mart today. Found camo tape, and fire tacks. Well, not fire tacks but, Bright Eyes. They're 3-d cubes, 50 in a box for 1.98. I also found Limb Lights, they're basically bread ties that are reflective white on one side and red on the other. Looked for new containers, but only found micros.

[+Kit Fox]

At my (Tom's) Corner of the Iowa Geocachers Organization I recently posted this article which may be of interest here.The article is titled, "The Way I Secure Fire Tacks To Trees".

 

-it

In the long run, this method is bad. One, it is not good for the health of trees, two, it makes geocachers look like we don't care about good land stewarship. Imagine a land manager finding nails in the forest he protects.

 

Went to the evil Wal mart today. Found camo tape, and fire tacks. Well, not fire tacks but, Bright Eyes. They're 3-d cubes, 50 in a box for 1.98. I also found Limb Lights, they're basically bread ties that are reflective white on one side and red on the other. Looked for new containers, but only found micros.

 

Wait until you start testing "Bright Eyes," they work poorly. I originally bought both of the items you mentioned. After testing them out, I ended up leaving them in caches as trade items. I have better luck with HS Archery Trail Tacks.

[+wandererrob]

have a set of serious question for you here -

 

1 - which side is that on a round object?

 

2 - how do you use a hot melt glue gun out in the forest?

Do you carry a really long extension cord?

 

3 - does that assume the tack is at eye level? 

what if they are down low?  If retro-reflective means in a single direction back to the light, then does a low level tack have to be aimed up at 'eye level'?  Who's eyes?

cc\

I'll give this my best shot...

 

1) The "side" generally refers to the side directly perpendicular to your line of sight with the object (e.g. tree) that the tack is stuck to. If you're facing a tree, the tacks will reflect best if placed on the left or right side of the tree relative to the viewer.

 

2) Do they make battery powered glue guns? I don't know, but that would be my best guess here.

 

3) They reflect best when the light comes from the same level as your eye, the actual hieght of the tack shouldn't matter much. You just need the light and your eyes to hit it at the same angle.

 

Hope this is helpful.

Edited November 28, 2005 by wandererrob

[+oneeyesquare]

Ours are at eye level......

 

 

 

 

 

if your sitting in a kayak!!! Placed 75-100 feet apart for clear passage reasons. Purchased two different kinds at Wally's. Some high reflective square jobbers and some regular ol' coated thumb tack type. One kind leads in and the other out. Virtually unfindable in daylight. We had a blast placing it and then doing a "trail run" at night.

[+BigWhiteTruck]

3 - does that assume the tack is at eye level? 

what if they are down low?  If retro-reflective means in a single direction back to the light, then does a low level tack have to be aimed up at 'eye level'?  Who's eyes?

The tacks do not have to be at anyone's eye level, nor do they need to be pointing directly at the viewer: they do not work like mirrors.

 

When light hits them from any angle, the light is reflected back directly to the source, or nearly back to the source, with a little bit of spread. For this reason, if you shine a flashlight at a firetack, but the flashlight is held at waist level, you may not se the tack because the light is being reflected back towards your flashlight. You have to hold the flashlight near your eyes for the light coming back from the tack to hit your eyes.

 

Another example of this is road signs. See for yourself by standing abreast about 10 feet apart with a friend at night, both of you facing a road sign. Have your friend shine a flashlight at the sign. You won't notice the sign lighting up, but your friend will. Have your friend slowly walk toward you while keeping the flashlight shining on the sign. As they get nearer to you, you will observe what your friend has been seeing the whole time, the sign will light up.

 

Fire tacks and roadsigns are retroreflectors, here is a Wikipedia article on retroreflectors

[+Team Silver]

if your really good you can find them during the day...

[+TeamGuisinger]

Wait until you start testing "Bright Eyes," they work poorly. I originally bought both of the items you mentioned. After testing them out, I ended up leaving them in caches as trade items. I have better luck with HS Archery Trail Tacks.

Thanks for the info, at least I only wasted 2 bucks instead of 6.