Dual Purpose Gps

[+dhbaird]

I am totally new to this GPS technology and am seeking to purchase my first unit.

 

I am an avid hiker, often treking in mountains, canyons (wet) and other places where there are no trails. I am looking for a hand held GPS unit that has mapping, altimeter and a fair amount of memory and that can take a beating. Doing Geocaching sounds like fun, but I nly know one person in our area that does it and he told me to ask this question here.

 

I am also a bare boat charter person and like sailing in the Caribbean. The last two charters my companions had a dedicated marine GPS that I did not pay attention to, but this next trip they are not coming and I was thinking that I will either have to rent one or provide my own.

 

Is there such a thing as a good dual purpose GPS that will allow me the best of both worlds? What do I look for? What software do I need for a basic set-up for both areas of my life?

 

Does a Garmon 60CS fit the bill?

 

David

[Team Sidewinder]

I would seriously check into the Garmin 76CS also. Check functions on the Garmin web site for a detailed description of the 76CS. This gps also floats which is a good thing if you are on the water.

team sidewinder

[+Thrak]

I own the Garmin GPSMAP 76CS which sounds ideal for what you need.

 

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap76cs/

[+Sputnik 57]

The 60CS is a great choice. The 76CS offers twice the memory for maps (115MB vs 56MB) and it floats. The 60CS is a bit smaller for hiking, but not much. The 60CS will float only with lithium batteries. With regular AAs, it is neutrally buoyant. Either unit will serve you well. You may want to go to REI or a similar store and hold both to see which one you prefer.

[peter]

With regular AAs, it is neutrally buoyant.

The ones I've seen do float with regular AAs, just not as high in the water as the 76cs. And that's been in fresh water - in ocean water they would float even better.

 

But I'd suggest depending more on a good lanyard and secure mounting with any unit on a boat. Even units that float can be hard to spot on a wavy sea.

 

Either the 60c/cs or 76c/cs would be good dual purpose hking/marine units. The features/firmware are the same, so the choice comes down to the extra memory and better basemap of the 76 models (useful mainly for long car trips) vs. slightly lower cost for the 60 models. The physical design and button placement are personal preference issues that may also be important to some.

[+briansnat]

I have to say ditto on the 76CS. Its a bit large for hiking, but perfect for the boat.

 

The 60CS might have the edge for hiking because its a bit smaller than the 76CS, but you do sacrifice memory. That being said, if you are just using Mapsource Topo on the unit, 56 megs will give you tons of coverage.

 

But if you plan on running Mapsource Topo, Bluechart (Marine) and City Select (streets, autorouting and database of businesses and services), you may want the extra memory in the 76CS.

Edited October 31, 2005 by briansnat

[jeffalaska]

I also do a lot of backcountry traveling as well as nautical.

I have owned a few different GPS's over the years and presently

own the Gamin 76CS. I run both the Bulechart and Topo (mapsource)

software. I could not be happier, both the software and the GPS unit

are top of the line. These guys give some great advice on this board.......

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

I am an avid hiker, often treking in mountains, canyons (wet) and other places where there are no trails.

Ah, a fellow canyoneer. Be aware that there will be no reception in tight slot canyons. And even in wider canyons, the satellite signal will bounce of the walls (multi-path), introducing significant error. Having said that, a GPS is great for finding the way back to your vehicle once you get out of a canyon. I can think of a couple of pre-GPS days in southern Utah where one sure would have come in handy!

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[+Sputnik 57]

Rich, have you tried using an external (patch type) antenna in tight canyons? Forum lore has it that patch antennae tend to look straight up (if oriented that way) and perform better in canyons than a quad helix. I would love to get some confirmation on that.

[+dhbaird]

Opps, hit report instead of reply <grin> Sorry moderator! Let's try again.

• How much bigger is the 76 from the 60cs?
   
  Is one any more water resistent than the other?
   
  Do most people operate them with an external antenna when they are on a boat or auto? How about the mounting brackets, any one better than another?
   
  I also do off-raoding with a 4x4. How much memory does one need in a unit to load in the road mapping software as well as some topo of an area so I can do point to point routing?
   
  Is the battery life any better on one unit vs the other?
   
  What are the basic software packages for both hiking and driving that people most highly recommend?
   
  Best source for charts for the Caribbean? Our next cruise is leaving from St. Martin and sailing to Nevis and then back around St. Martin, Anguilla and maybe St. Barths. It will be some of our first blue water sailing out of the sight of the BVI's which puts us in unfamiliar waters. Any good geocaches in the Caribbean? Will it be easy to integrate some cache way points with the chart files?
   
  I know lots of questions and they might be answered in the faq's but I've got a limited amount of time to get this thing ordered, delivered and set-up in time for our next trip (6 weeks). When I get back I'll be pestering the other forums on GEO Caching as it sounds like something I'd love to do.
  

David

[Neo_Geo]

Opps, hit report instead of reply <grin> Sorry moderator! Let's try again.

• How much bigger is the 76 from the 60cs?
   
  Is one any more water resistent than the other?
   
  Do most people operate them with an external antenna when they are on a boat or auto? How about the mounting brackets, any one better than another?
   
  I also do off-raoding with a 4x4. How much memory does one need in a unit to load in the road mapping software as well as some topo of an area so I can do point to point routing?
   
  Is the battery life any better on one unit vs the other?
   
  What are the basic software packages for both hiking and driving that people most highly recommend?
   
  Best source for charts for the Caribbean? Our next cruise is leaving from St. Martin and sailing to Nevis and then back around St. Martin, Anguilla and maybe St. Barths. It will be some of our first blue water sailing out of the sight of the BVI's which puts us in unfamiliar waters. Any good geocaches in the Caribbean? Will it be easy to integrate some cache way points with the chart files?
   
  I know lots of questions and they might be answered in the faq's but I've got a limited amount of time to get this thing ordered, delivered and set-up in time for our next trip (6 weeks). When I get back I'll be pestering the other forums on GEO Caching as it sounds like something I'd love to do.
  

David

1.

60CS:

Size: 2.4" W x 6.1" H x 1.3" D

Weight: 7.5 ounces with batteries

Display: 1.5 x 2.2 inches (160 x 240 pixels)

 

76CS:

Size: 2.7" W x 6.2" H x 1.4" D

Weight: 7.6 ounces with batteries

Display: 1.5 W x 2.2 H inches (160 x 240 pixels)

 

2. Both have the same water resistance specification.

 

3. External antenna is only necessary if the GPSr will not have a clear view of the sky (like if operated inside a cabin). I use my 60C on the dash of my car with no exteernal antenna. Mounting bracket - depends on what you're mounting the unit to. The RAM mount is generally the best mounting device - very sturdy.

 

4. 56MB is enough to do point-to-point routing for a route about halfway across the US - 115 is enough to go pretty much across the country. For your needs, either the 60C/S or 76C/S will do the job.

 

5. Battery life is about the same for both units

 

6. City Select is a must if you want autorouting with turn-by-turn directions. Topo US is a nice compliment for hiking/caching.

 

7. Good caches in the carribean...? That's one I'm gonna have to let you find out for yourself. Too broad of a search with too many variables. What's "good" for me may not be good for you...

CLICK HERE to search for caches...

[+Renegade Knight]

Rich, have you tried using an external (patch type) antenna in tight canyons? Forum lore has it that patch antennae tend to look straight up (if oriented that way) and perform better in canyons than a quad helix. I would love to get some confirmation on that.

Vista vs. GPS V in the Snake River Canyon at Twin Falls. My GPS V hated being near the rock face (where the cache was located). The Vista held a lock better in that situation.

 

One experience isn't enough to go on, but it was enough to get me to start noticing.

[+megamapper]

I've been very happy with the Lowrance iFinder GPS's. Is it perfect, no. Lemme take you through the good, the bad, and the ugly. This should give you a good idea of what you want to look out for.

 

Track Storage:

100 tracks with each track storing up to 10,000 track points.

Each track can consist of multiple individual track segments (start/stop) without

having that annoying line joining each segment to each other.

Each track can be displayed using diferent line types. I show trails, spurs and roads all with various line types.

 

When you have that kind of track storage there is no need to remove or reload tracks into the GPS when you trek from area to area. It's all there! I've found it next to impossible to fill my GPS's track capacity!

 

With other GPS's people use Waypoints and Routes for hiking. With the kind of track storage available in the ifinder, making up routes using waypoints if kinda well, IMHO useless. I can simply at my tracks ( now about 12,000 points) to see where I'm headed.

 

I took a look at a Magellan Meridian Gold, and found that it can only store *one* track consisting of only *one* segment. There is no ability subdivide the track up into segments. So for this unit you'd need to make lotsa waypoints and routes.

 

That isn't to say that I do not use the 1000 icons and 1000 waypoints. For me, icons show points of interest or hazards. Waypoints show me turns and describe where the right and left fork goes. I haven't used routes at all so far. But, that being said, if I were on a long, pre-planned road trip or boat trip, then using routes and waypoints would be very useful. But while I'm out in the woods, they are not very useful.

 

iFinder tracks store only location information. No altitude, or time is stored in tracks. The more I use the unit, I would much rather have the points. I get the altitude from Google Earth, or from the topo maps.

 

Batteries life in the iFinder units is simply awsome 8 hours with no power saving and backlights on. 12 - 24 hours possible depending on lighting and how well you save the battery power - On regular alkaline batteries.

 

I've found that rechargable NiHM's appear to work even longer. My last 15 hour ride I did (2PM to 5AM) (backlights on from 5 PM to 5 AM), the batteries never failed so I can't comment on the battery life other then to say its long. There's nothing worse then having a GPS with a dead battery. If the GPS uses a nonstandard power source, your down for 14 hours recharging, assuming that you have a 120 V light socket to plug into. For me, I simply pack along a couple of Alkaline or NiHM spares 'just in case'. They're small, and don't weigh the pack down.

 

Both Magellan and Lowrance mapping software work great at getting maps into the units. However the ability to edit track data in both these products 'suck'. I've found that you need to buy their software anyway to get the maps upgraded on the GPS. After that, then you may want to go to some software like OziExplorer to edit tracks and the like. So no matter which way you go, you may end up having to buy Ozi.

 

Lowrance has been around for like a 'bazillion years' doing boat and water navigation before GPS existed. Their marine mapping charts appear to be quite well done. Lots of updates for lakes and fishing spots on their website. I've seen some of their charts being displayed on the GPS, but I don't really know what I'm looking at.

 

Planning that fun filled vacation in Iraq? Well, the iFinders suck for this. I haven't seen any map upgrades available for Europe or Iraq.

 

In terms of bang for the buck, the iFinder is unbeatable. You can get a top of the line Lowrance with Compass and Altimeter for under $300.00 Cdn. The screen is quite large, but they only have greyscale Black and White screen.

 

So if the GPS has to be color, then you're probably looking at other manufacturers. Also the color appears to eat alot of battery power, so you may end up spending around $300-400 Cdn to get color. It will also cost you in battery life, as color tends to eat battery power.

 

On my iFinder PhD, it's spozed to be waterproof to IPX7 standards. Well, it's not!! Submerging the unit gently in a 3 inch sink of water, well I got water into my unit. With rain, and downpour conditions, I've had ZERO problems. I took it to the swimming pool, and used the GPS like an iPod listening to music. Did I the GPS get wet? You betcha! But if it gets submerged under water, you're going to get water in the unit. So if you're really worried about water, then look at the iFinder H2O or the iFinder Hunt versions. The PhD BTW sinks in water. The H2O will float.

 

My unit was 'very steamy' with the LCD doing the black funky chicken. I had to use a hairdryer to heat the unit, and then use a foodsaver to suck the air out of the GPS. It took me about 6 hours repeating the cycle over and over again. My unit is fine with no issues.

 

The antenna on the iFinder is pretty good. No real issues. I found a steal of a deal on the Lowrance RAA-3 amplified antenna. With the GPS sitting next to the antenna, I see an instant 25-50% gain in signal strengths with this antenna. It sure helps in the thick forest canopy around here. This antenna does not effect the power consuption of the GPS in a very noticable way.

 

Many GPS's do not have the external antenna capability. When your in the car, or in thick canopy, I've found the combination of RAA-3 and having that external port to be a great asset!

 

Anyways, That about covers it.

 

Regards,

---- Robb -----

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

3.  External antenna is only necessary if the GPSr will not have a clear view of the sky (like if operated inside a cabin).  I use my 60C on the dash of my car with no exteernal antenna.  Mounting bracket - depends on what you're mounting the unit to.  The RAM mount is generally the best mounting device - very sturdy.

 

4.  56MB is enough to do point-to-point routing for a route about halfway across the US - 115 is enough to go pretty much across the country.  For your needs, either the 60C/S or 76C/S will do the job.

Not being contradictary here, just expressing another perspective...

 

3. I like my Garmin windshield suction mount. or maybe its just the anti-authoritarian in me digging the fact that they are illegal in CA.

 

4. I'm currently planning a trip from Northern California to Southern California, about a 9 hour drive, then a swing through the desert to a couple of natural areas, and then return. This won't all fit on my 60CS. I'll have my laptop along, so it's no big deal, but it would be to some people.

 

HTH

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Rich, have you tried using an external (patch type) antenna in tight canyons?  Forum lore has it that patch antennae tend to look straight up (if oriented that way) and perform better in canyons than a quad helix.  I would love to get some confirmation on that.

No, but with a little luck I'll be able to tell you how my 60CS performs in canyons in Anza Borrego in a couple of weeks! Also, I've heard it both ways, in terms of how to best orient patch or quad helix. Anyone here have any definitive references on the subject?

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[+dhbaird]

4. I'm currently planning a trip from Northern California to Southern California, about a 9 hour drive, then a swing through the desert to a couple of natural areas, and then return. This won't all fit on my 60CS. I'll have my laptop along, so it's no big deal, but it would be to some people.

HI There,

 

Thanks for the response. Bringing the laptop is one thing I am trying to avoid when I travel so if the difference between the 60cs and the 76c6 of about $50.00 then I'd rather pay that then shlep the laptop around for a trip.

 

I bring it when we do bareboating. That won't be aproblem to store it away and bring it out to reload maps and charts, but if I take a canyon trek like I did at the beginning of the month I get on the plane with a carry on and my day pack. No room for a laptop for a trip like that.

 

I went from Phoenix to Sedona, then had 3 canyon hikes planned in the Sedona area. Drove up to Grand Canyon and scouted a hiking trip into the GC for next trek and then spent a day scouting out 6 ruin sites for some photography assignments for a magazine article I am writing on hiking in AZ.

 

The canyons were within 30-40 air miles of each other except the leg when we drove up to the GC. The ruins sites all were about the same, 20-30 air miles apart on some relatively obscure trails and forest roads.

 

From what you are saying it sounds like the only way I could accomplish the above with the 60CS was to bring the lap-top and change the downloads.

 

Is there a GPS unit comparable to the 60CS that is as rugged and as waterproof that takes additional RAM or SD cards?

 

David

[+Sputnik 57]

Actually, I just grabbed all of the City Select and US Topo maps for Arizona. They come out to 55.5MB, so the entire state would fit into a 60CS. I'm not sure how likely it is for you to hike Medera Canyon, ski Mount Lemon, tour Meteor Crater *and* hike the Grand Canyon in one trip, but the 60CS could handle it, autoroute from point to point, and get you to the Vegas Strip.

[+dhbaird]

Actually, I just grabbed all of the City Select and US Topo maps for Arizona. They come out to 55.5MB, so the entire state would fit into a 60CS. I'm not sure how likely it is for you to hike Medera Canyon, ski Mount Lemon, tour Meteor Crater *and* hike the Grand Canyon in one trip, but the 60CS could handle it, autoroute from point to point, and get you to the Vegas Strip.

Hi Sputnik

 

Thanks for the update, certainly that is all the storage I would need for one of my hiking trips as I rarely cover more than one state in one trip.

 

Now another question for you and others.

 

How do you like City select?

Does the 60cs give an audible warning when you have a turn coming up?

 

How does it compare to a product like Delorme Street Atlas?

 

I've used the Delorme product since version 1.0 and have come to rely upon good street data.

 

David

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Actually, I just grabbed all of the City Select and US Topo maps for Arizona.  They come out to 55.5MB, so the entire state would fit into a 60CS.  I'm not sure how likely it is for you to hike Medera Canyon, ski Mount Lemon, tour Meteor Crater *and* hike the Grand Canyon in one trip, but the 60CS could handle it, autoroute from point to point, and get you to the Vegas Strip.

My trip that would not all fit onto the 60CS included driving through the SF Bay Area AND a swing through quite a bit of the LA Basin, on the way to Orange County. Then I added in topo maps for natural areas in the desert too. I imagine this is a fairly atypical situaion, but it did surpise me.

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[+Sputnik 57]

Autorouting on City Select is great. The 60CS gives you a beep when your next turn is a minute or so away, and a second beep when you are right on the turn. You can select from a dozen or so different beeps (I use the "hailing a cab" whistle for the closest turn). It automatically zooms to show a close up of the turn, highway interchange, or whatever, so you know what to expect, and then returns to your regular screen when the turn is complete.

 

This is the only autorouting software I've used, so I can't compare it to Delorme or other products.

 

One of the great things about City Select is that it has millions of points of interest. With the press of a few buttons, you can ask it to show you the nearest ATM, Chinese restaurant, or highway rest stop. The downside of this, as Rich noted, is that it makes the maps real memory hogs when you drive through a densely populated urban area like SF or LA.

 

Just City Select (no Topo) from Santa Clara to San Diego is over 45MB. It just so happens that AZ is pretty sparse.

[rynd]

Garmin GPSMap 76cs!

Edited November 1, 2005 by rynd

[+briansnat]

60CS:

Size: 2.4" W x 6.1" H x 1.3" D

Weight: 7.5 ounces with batteries

Display: 1.5 x 2.2 inches (160 x 240 pixels)

 

76CS:

Size: 2.7" W x 6.2" H x 1.4" D

Weight: 7.6 ounces with batteries

Display: 1.5 W x 2.2 H inches (160 x 240 pixels)

 

 

Though the sizes look similar in the specs, in reality the 76CS is a much larger unit. For one, the length on the 60CS includes the antenna. Also, the 60CS is tapered and fits a lot easier in the hand.

 

Hi Sputnik

 

Thanks for the update, certainly that is all the storage I would need for one of my hiking trips as I rarely cover more than one state in one trip.

 

 

Consider that you are probably going to be running Topo, City Select and perhaps Bluechart. The extra memory in the 76CS will come in handy in that case. Also, though you can get all of Arizona in a 60CS, if you live in, or are traveling to a major population center, it will take up a lot more room. For instance, though I can fit all of Arizona or Montana using Topo and City Select in my 60CS, I can't fit all of New Jersey (including the NYC area) in the 60CS. City Select's database of businesses and services chews up a lot of memory in and around major cities.

[+fw_ord]

I have done a lot of wilderness treking and some geocaching. In the wilderness I only use good paper maps (USGS Quads or better), pencil, and a Silva compass. Decent orienteering skills allow easier route planning on the fly and you have no dependence on heavy battery powered equipment. In many cases it easier to orient a map, take a bearing, and select a landmark than it is to figure out the exact lat/lon of your next waypoint, punch it into your GPS device and hope for enough satellites to compute a bearing. Once the bearing is determined by the receiver, you still need (I do) a compass to shoot the bearing and select a landmark to travel to. Backup equipment weighs nothing. I don't know as much about sailing, but GPS seems to make a lot of sense, still with good paper maps and a very good compass.