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Event Caches

 

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers. After the event has passed, the event cache should be archived by the organizer within four weeks. While a music concert, a garage sale, a ham radio field day or town’s fireworks display might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers.

 

I guess I don't understand what part of this guideline isn't clear. What it is saying is that if the organizer and/or the primary attendees are not geocachers then, no matter how relevant or interesting it might be to the caching community, it is not something that can be listed on geocaching.com.

 

This event is clearly intended for the orienteering community not the geocaching community. While similar they are not the same. Would there be as much angst over this event if it was for a community sponsered Easter Egg Hunt?

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Okay, with the exception of the 3 Kings of Angst, the OP and two others to remain nameless, there is some real gray area about Event listings. Smack n' Chat is acceptable. You don't have to do a thing except have other cachers present to have an event. Eat some chitlins and biscuits and mention the word "Geo Caching" and you're in. ... If you 'piggy-back ' with another group, ie orienteers, Boy Scouts, Letterboxers, etc and cachers are a part of that group, it isn't acceptable. You can't introduce others. It has be exclusive to cachers only.

 

Am I taking this too literal? ;)

 

;)

Yes, I would believe you are. Just a little though.

 

The intention of the guidleine is to prevent calling a garage sale a geocaching event. And although one could argue the similarites or the differences of orienteering, we all know they are different.

 

As far as not being able to introduce others? Sure you can. It doesn't mean it has to be a geocaching event at the orienteering event or the garage sale.

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This is a orienteering event put on by orienteerers, not a geocaching event put on by geocachers.

Wrong. This is a combination Orienteering/Geocaching event put on by orienteers and geocachers. Orienteers setup multiple courses and develop the maps. Geocachers mark out waypoints for a subset of the courses and are given non-marked copies of the maps. Attendees can choose to orienteer or geocache their way through the available courses. Those choosing to geocache meet with the original poster. Those choosing to orienteer meet with ROC representatives.

 

At the end of the course, there's refreshments and people (whether they chose to orienteer or geocache) get to meet'n'greet.

 

This is no different than going to a restaurant to sit around and yak with other geocachers. The restaurant setups the meals. Some people go to eat with their own parties. Some people go to eat with other geocachers.

 

It's clear that in some cases (e.g., wings'n'beer in CT), all the geocachers have to do is have an idea to gather people to chat. In other cases (e.g., Northern Geocache Tournament in MA), 1-2 geocachers can be on-hand but second fiddle to the parks department and chambers of commerce in organizing the entire multi-day event. In this case (GPS-O in NY), 1 geocacher can setup the entire geocaching aspect of the event...and still be denied an event cache.

 

My point is simple. Define at what level geocachers have to be involved to make it an event cache. "By geocachers, for geocachers" is clear as mud when it comes to the examples I've cited.

I was offended and felt insulted, so I did report this as well. I find it hard to see any merit to a point of view when a person feels they must behave in this manner in order to get it across.

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I think people are getting way too anal about this stuff.

 

As far as I'm concerned, unless the group is doing some sort of illegal activity, just about any event should be allowed to be an event cache.

 

I mean, why does it matter? Is someone worried about cachers "running up their numbers" on event caches because there are so many event caches out there? Who cares?

 

This is certainly an area where the approvers could relax a little bit.

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Okay, with the exception of the 3 Kings of Angst, the OP and two others to remain nameless, there is some real gray area about Event listings. Smack n' Chat is acceptable. You don't have to do a thing except have other cachers present to have an event. Eat some chitlins and biscuits and mention the word "Geo Caching" and you're in. ... If you 'piggy-back ' with another group, ie orienteers, Boy Scouts, Letterboxers, etc and cachers are a part of that group, it isn't acceptable. You can't introduce others. It has be exclusive to cachers only.

 

Am I taking this too literal?  ;)

 

:P

As I stated earlier, you can hold an event and invite all the non cachers you want the guideline does not say ONLY geocachers can attend. so on this part of your post you are, perhaps, too literal.

 

this post

That is not true. I list those types all the time. The guideline do not say "Event caches are gatherings that are open to ONLY geocachers and which are organized by geocachers. It does not prevent non geocachers from attending. What it does talk about is making an event out of someone else's meeting/class/whatever. The current guidelines explain that with this example "While a music concert, a garage sale, a ham radio field day or town’s fireworks display might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers."

 

either way you and I are both off topic to the OPs original post ;)

Edited by CO Admin
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Events no longer have to be "about geocaching," they just need to be about geocachers.

 

2. Let's have a geocachers' bowling tournament. You could invite non-geocachers, but each team in the tournament must have at least one bowler that has found at least one cache. This would be allowed.

 

The problem with the current guidelines, as Yamahammer and I see it, is that garage sale gatherings ARE okay technically. If it doesn't have to be "about geocaching", the event can be about just about anything, as long as only geocachers are there.

 

I personally agree with GrnXnham. I'm cool with just about any event, as long as the details are clear on the cache page and I can make an educated decision about whether it's the event for me.

 

But if there is going to be a regulation, I think it should be on the side of event CONTENT. If you're going to not allow a "kind" of event, it should be the Geo Bowling and "Smack n' Chat " that go, and retain intrinsic caching/outdoor activity sort of affairs.

 

From the guidelines:

such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers.

 

When you have your "Monthly Geo ChowDown at Dennys", how do you ensure that the primary attendees at the restaurant are actually geocachers? These events seem to go against the spirit of the "law" way more than caching expedition trips.

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Events no longer have to be "about geocaching," they just need to be about geocachers.

 

2. Let's have a geocachers' bowling tournament. You could invite non-geocachers, but each team in the tournament must have at least one bowler that has found at least one cache. This would be allowed.

 

The problem with the current guidelines, as Yamahammer and I see it, is that garage sale gatherings ARE okay technically. If it doesn't have to be "about geocaching", the event can be about just about anything, as long as only geocachers are there.

 

I personally agree with GrnXnham. I'm cool with just about any event, as long as the details are clear on the cache page and I can make an educated decision about whether it's the event for me.

 

But if there is going to be a regulation, I think it should be on the side of event CONTENT. If you're going to not allow a "kind" of event, it should be the Geo Bowling and "Smack n' Chat " that go, and retain intrinsic caching/outdoor activity sort of affairs.

 

From the guidelines:

such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers.

 

When you have your "Monthly Geo ChowDown at Dennys", how do you ensure that the primary attendees at the restaurant are actually geocachers? These events seem to go against the spirit of the "law" way more than caching expedition trips.

Am I to understand that every time a cacher waves hello to someone that it should be an event?

 

Woof

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Okay, with the exception of the 3 Kings of Angst, the OP and two others to remain nameless, there is some real gray area about Event listings. Smack n' Chat is acceptable. You don't have to do a thing except have other cachers present to have an event. Eat some chitlins and biscuits and mention the word "Geo Caching" and you're in. ... If you 'piggy-back ' with another group, ie orienteers, Boy Scouts, Letterboxers, etc and cachers are a part of that group, it isn't acceptable. You can't introduce others. It has be exclusive to cachers only.

 

Am I taking this too literal? :(

 

:D

Okay, cut the parts "You can't introduce others. It has be exclusive to cachers only." Now am I being too literal? :(

 

:D

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I do see that the main issue is whether or not the guidelines should allow for non-geocaching events to be listed on the geocaching site.  If this is so, and some folks believe that orienteering should be included, others think that hiking boot demonstrations should be included, others feel that fashion shows should be included.  Then where would the line be drawn?

By a community-based, self-policing membership body. Discuss it in the forums and put it to a vote.

:( That's hilarious.

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As far as I'm concerned, unless the group is doing some sort of illegal activity, just about any event should be allowed to be an event cache.

 

Cool, that would open it up to Amway sales meetings, prayer groups, anti war protests, mayonnaise eating contests, knitting bees, timeshare seminars, baby showers, poetry readings and brisses .

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It's mind-boggling that people still consider what was submitted to be "an orienteering event".

 

There's no reason that two events can't happen simultaneously and share equipment/info/etc. One that involves ROC and the orienteers planning to participate and one that involves the original poster and the geocachers planning to participate.

 

So, if the cache page said the following would it be a valid event cache listed here?

 

----------

Cache Description: I'll be setting up a series of flags in the park for my event. We'll be running from flag to flag to stamp-validate your cards. I'll provide maps and coordinates for the flags and then start a timer when you start and when you finish, I'll stop the clock for you. At the end of your run, we'll have refreshments to enjoy and chat! Ready, set, race! See you in the park!

----------

 

I assume that'd be the foundation of a great time by all.

 

But...suddenly, because the timer is owned by ROC and ROC placed the flags (but didn't record the coordinates)...suddenly, it's no longer a geocaching event.

 

Mind-boggling.

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Here's another great "what if"...

 

I go out to a local park and setup 10 temporary geocache-letterbox hybrids containing unique stamps in each and unique trade items in each.

 

Ex. 1: I post to letterboxing.org saying "The Local 10 Letterbox Challenge: Come and get my clues to 10 letterboxes. First letterboxer to find all ten and bring stamped books back showing the 10 stamps wins! Refreshments and picnic to follow!"...Then I come to GC.com and say "Local 10 Geocache Challenge: Come get coordinates to 10 geocaches. First geocacher to trade out for one of each of the 10 unique trade items and return wins! Refreshments and picnic to follow."

 

Ex. 2: I post to GC.com and say "Local 10 Geocache Challenge: Come get coordinates to 10 geocaches. First geocacher to trade out for one of each of the 10 unique trade items and return wins! Refreshments and picnic to follow." Then, I post to letterboxing.org saying "The Local 10 Letterbox Challenge: Come and get my clues to 10 letterboxes. First letterboxer to find all ten and bring stamped books back showing the 10 stamps wins! Refreshments and picnic to follow!"

 

--------------

 

Ex1 is not an event cache (*clearly* it's all about letterboxing and I only came to GC.com second). Ex2 is an event cache (*clearly* I put out 10 geocaches and the fact that letterboxers are allowed is secondary).

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Cool, that would open it up to Amway sales meetings, prayer groups, anti war protests, mayonnaise eating contests, knitting bees, timeshare seminars, baby showers, poetry readings and brisses .

 

That's the point. Other than the commercial interests you mention, the current guidelines read like this to me: as long as you make sure it is an event "organized by geocachers for geocachers", you will have Geo war protests, Caching Baby Showers, and "Monthly Geo Poetry Readings at the Pizza Parlor".

 

If you don't want these silly events, we need to look very hard at this comment:

 

Events no longer have to be "about geocaching," they just need to be about geocachers.

 

I don't see a lot of difference between the eat & meets, cacher bowling, and the like, and the mayonnaise eating contests you're talking about. (mind you, as I've already said, I don't have a problem with mayonnaise eating contests. Could be fun. But can we make it mustard?)

 

As I see it, either we need to examine the actual activities of the event, or you have to allow the silly events listed above along side the silly events that are already being allowed daily.

 

Since it's all very subjective, wouldn't the best answer be detail your event well on the cache page and let the cachers make their own decision?

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I was an orienteer long before I was a geocacher.

 

If there is a combo orienteering/geocaching event that is co-sponsored by a geocacher/geocaching organization and an orienteering club, with real geocaching, not just a here-are-the-coordinates-for-the-controls orienteering course, I think it meets the guidelines. If they have boxes hidden in the woods with coordinates, it should be approvable.

 

Geocaching events in conjunction with orienteering meets are a great way to introduce caching to a receptive audience. However, it needs to be a "real" geocaching event, not just an orienteering event in disguise.

 

Here is one I co-sponsored in 2003 that I would approve again under the current guidelines.

Edited by Web-ling
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However, it needs to be a "real" geocaching event, not just an orienteering event in disguise.

I think a lot of people are getting hung up on what is a "real" geocaching event. Clearly it has nothing to do with there being a cache involved, with all the pizza meets and what not. And by some of the attitudes on this thread, clearly it has nothing to do with walking in the woods looking for something with your GPSr. So only left with the guidelines to go by, a geocaching event is an event organized by geocachers for geocachers... so in theory, my next garage sale could be if I orginize it and I didn't let too many of the general public in... unless they are interested in learning about geocaching.

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A geocaching event is for geocachers. Per the listing guidelines, Geocaching.com does not use cache pages to publicize events that are primarily sponsored by other organizations.

Does that mean my Reno Air Races Cache should be archived? Because there's no way to read the title without the promotion of an event that is primarily sponsored by another organization. [Ops, I promoted it again. Darn it.]

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A geocaching event is for geocachers.  Per the listing guidelines, Geocaching.com does not use cache pages to publicize events that are primarily sponsored by other organizations.

Does that mean my Reno Air Races Cache should be archived? Because there's no way to read the title without the promotion of an event that is primarily sponsored by another organization. [Ops, I promoted it again. Darn it.]

Not for that reason, but perhaps since it's a vacation cache? :(

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As far as I'm concerned, unless the group is doing some sort of illegal activity, just about any event should be allowed to be an event cache.

 

Cool, that would open it up to Amway sales meetings, prayer groups, anti war protests, mayonnaise eating contests, knitting bees, timeshare seminars, baby showers, poetry readings and brisses .

Yes!

 

And you can choose not to go to these events if you aren't interested in them! Others, who are interested, can attend.

 

Imagine that!

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Green Achers,

 

This topic is about event caches. It is not about vacation caches, nor about traditional caches that are placed near a point of interest such as the Reno Air Races. Please post on-topic as explained in the Forum Guidelines linked to at the top left of the page.

 

If anyone needs to discuss the maintainable distance guideline or the commercial cache guideline, they're welcome to open a new thread. I now return you to the previously scheduled topic about event caches.

 

Thanks!

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I dont know whether or not it would be considered correct under the guidelines, but perhaps if a geocaching event was scheduled several hours before another event or after a event,(and kept separate) if it would be more sensible, as cachers could choose whether or not to attend the other event. Of course this would be subject to whether the other event was somehow related to caching. Orienteering - YES; timeshares- NO.

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As far as I'm concerned, unless the group is doing some sort of illegal activity, just about any event should be allowed to be an event cache.

 

Cool, that would open it up to Amway sales meetings, prayer groups, anti war protests, mayonnaise eating contests, knitting bees, timeshare seminars, baby showers, poetry readings and brisses .

Hmmm...actually I'll give you a little of this one.

 

Since things of a sales nature are not allowed in regular caches--ie business cards, sales flyers, ads, business opportunities--then things of a sales nature should also not be allowed at an event cache.

 

So the Amway meetings and timeshare seminars would be out BUT the prayer groups and mayo eating contest would be in! :(

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After doing a bit of research myself*, I've found that the GPS-O idea was started by a geocacher, who is a member of ROC. He got the club to try a variation on orienteering using a GPS (which is banned normally). But how do you promote an event for GPS users in a group dedicated to not using GPSr's (the first time they tried nobody came)? How about inviting GPS users (i.e.. geocachers)? So a geocacher goes out an marks all the controls, puts it all together, sets up an event and those cachers who come have a great time. Everyone is happy, so they do it again. Only this time someone looks at the facts and says "this isn't by cachers for cachers, so no way!" because it's oganized by an orienteering club. Too bad.

 

This geocacher is tagging onto a well established event organized by a large organization. They have a yearly calendar. This event has been on that calendar for a long time.

This geocacher is a member of this "large" organization (which had about 60 participants at a recent event (rough count), we have that many at our local pizza meetings - we must be a HUGE organization) and probably involved in the planning. And yes, we could have a yearly calendar, except GC.com can't/won't schedule anything beyond 3 months ahead (yes, there are exceptions but they don't affect this level of event) - there are a number of geo-events that are scheduled (by the organizers) well in advance, but aren't published until the guidelines let them. I bet the OP had his planned from the time the ROC event was planned (or how could they include it on their schedule?) and posted it when permitted.

 

This event is clearly intended for the orienteering community not the geocaching community.

I don't see where an event using GPSr's is clearly for the "orienteering community" when they aren't used in orienteering. This is like saying a seminar on geocaching given at REI isn't for/about cachers but for the REI community (lousy example, but it's late).

 

This exclusive attitude - "only by cachers, for cachers" - doesn't seem to sit well with the caching community (at least the vocal portion here), I wonder how it come across to the rest of the world. I don't see it as a positive reflection on us. I've seen how much scorn is cast at the letterboxers who seem to have the same attitude toward us - it seems we deserve it ourselves.

 

Well, this didn't didn't get expressed as well as I'd like. I hope people see what I'm trying to say, not get more defensive of their own position. I understand that the volunteers have to follow the guidelines, but I wish more open discussion could happen- not this "us against them" style argument we seem to get. It's a pity that the 'appeal' process in the guideline never seems to work...

 

 

*ROC Winter 2004 newletter, Page 4 "The Tried and True - and the New Too"

BTW, I'm not associated with ROC, I live a few thousand miles west.

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Actually, it's kind of refreshing to see the subject not completely polarized. There are at least three separate camps on this one. The most sensible one I see is the one where they see the event cache didn't fit the guidelines, but the guidelines clearly need revising.

 

I wonder how a geocaching event would be handled if it was piggy-backed on a Waymarking event?

 

Here's a fuzzier one. What if one was piggy-backed onto a terracaching event? Worse yet, a navicaching event?

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Two years ago, a group of cachers in my area wanted to have a meet and greet event. It happened one of the "meet and greeter" folks is also a hot-air balloonist and would be in the area for our annual balloon rally. So we had someone write up an event idea and submitted it. We had planned on meeting a town away from the rally, during a time no hot-air balloon events were scheduled. Unfortunately, our writer mentioned the balloon rally in his first line and we were denied, because the admin reviewed believed it was connected to the rally. We had our meet and greet anyway and had a great time. No one got a smilie, so sad. Everyone wanted this posted the next year, because even tho we managed to get a bunch of folk there, we knew there might be newbies out there we MIGHT have reached if it were listed

 

This event now takes place, posted on GC because the next time we wrote it up, (same intentions, same people, same location, same day) we didn't mention the balloon rally, except as an after thought - come to our event and you might check the rally out later in the day when they launch.

 

No ache, no whining - just a story.

 

PS: We got a BUNCH of new folks this year and can't wait for next year.

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Two years ago, a group of cachers in my area wanted to have a meet and greet event. It happened one of the "meet and greeter" folks is also  a hot-air balloonist and would be in the area for our annual balloon rally. So we had someone write up an event idea and submitted it. We had planned on meeting a town away from the rally, during a time no hot-air balloon events were scheduled. Unfortunately, our writer mentioned the balloon rally in his first line and we were denied, because the admin reviewed believed it was connected to the rally. We had our meet and greet anyway and had a great time.  No one got a smilie, so sad. Everyone wanted this posted the next year, because even tho we managed to get a bunch of folk there, we knew there might be newbies out there we MIGHT have reached if it were listed

 

This event now takes place, posted on GC because the next time we wrote it up, (same intentions, same people, same location, same day) we didn't mention the balloon rally, except as an after thought - come to our event and you might check the rally out later in the day when they launch.

 

No ache, no whining - just a story.

 

PS:  We got a BUNCH of new folks this year and can't wait for next year.

Its a success story and a good example of how you can have certain kinds of events working within the guidelines.

 

Hey, the reviewers are geocachers. They want to approve caches and events. Its not like they get a listing and comb through it looking for a reason to deny it. If your event (or regular cache) is denied, e-mail the reviewer and ask him what you can do to make it work. They are often very helpful and will suggest changes in wording or logistics that will make it acceptable.

 

When you submit something and demand it be done your way, guidelines be damned then you're going to have a negative outcome.

Edited by briansnat
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Two years ago, a group of cachers in my area wanted to have a meet and greet event. It happened one of the "meet and greeter" folks is also a hot-air balloonist and would be in the area for our annual balloon rally. So we had someone write up an event idea and submitted it. We had planned on meeting a town away from the rally, during a time no hot-air balloon events were scheduled. Unfortunately, our writer mentioned the balloon rally in his first line and we were denied, because the admin reviewed believed it was connected to the rally. We had our meet and greet anyway and had a great time. No one got a smilie, so sad. Everyone wanted this posted the next year, because even tho we managed to get a bunch of folk there, we knew there might be newbies out there we MIGHT have reached if it were listed

 

This event now takes place, posted on GC because the next time we wrote it up, (same intentions, same people, same location, same day) we didn't mention the balloon rally, except as an after thought - come to our event and you might check the rally out later in the day when they launch.

 

No ache, no whining - just a story.

 

PS: We got a BUNCH of new folks this year and can't wait for next year.

:( Oh my!!! You duped some poor innocent geocachers into an event which had other alternatives. Hope you can live with yourself. :D:D:(

 

But really it is a shame you had to actually change your listing the next time to get it posted. I personally like seeing events held in conjunction with another activity for it as well adds to the experience of going to different places to see different things.

 

I dread the day when an event is listed like “45th Annual Pizza Meeting – Same place same booth and nothing else”

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No duping, pcfrog!

 

It's just that to get balloonpilot and chickenlips to come to our meet and greet, we had to schedule it for that day!

 

It was to get them to come, 'cuz we like them! :( Darn it, geocachers insist on having other lives/activities!!! :(

Edited by ATMouse
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I guess this issue has been bothering quite a few people!

 

;)

 

After reading through the various postings, it seems that if Geocaching is to be for Geocachers, then the rules for caches and events should be constructed around what the membership wants - as long as it is not illegal, immoral, or difficult to administer.

 

I also think that many of the event caches that people talked about, including the original GPS-O, fall within the guidelines that already exist if only a person were able to see beyond a strict interpretation of the letter of the law.

 

A rule is not a rule just because it can be and a rule should not be made to simply restrict people for no legitimate reason. A rule or law is a reflection of the society to which it applies. It should be made to identify the guidelines that one needs to work within to have a functioning society (in this case Geocachers).

 

The rules on events either need to be rewritten or administered in line with the intent of the law, not the letter of the law.

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After reading through the various postings, it seems that if Geocaching is to be for Geocachers, then the rules for caches and events should be constructed around what the membership wants - as long as it is not illegal, immoral, or difficult to administer.

 

You're assuming that this is an issue for the majority. Most of the people who drawn to post to threads like this are the ones who are unhappy with the the way things are. There are probably thousands out there who have no problem with the guidelines (oops, rules) in their present form.

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You're assuming that this is an issue for the majority.  Most of the people who  drawn to post to threads like this are the ones who are unhappy with the the way things are. There are probably thousands out there who have no problem with the guidelines (oops, rules) in their present form.

I have to dissagree with you on this statement. I was drawn in because I was trying to understand how the rules are currently working. At first glance, what the OP stated he did seemed reasonable to me so I was confused how this would not be able to be listed as an event. Now that I've read through all of the discussion, I do understand that, per the current guidelines, this event does not fit within them. Does this mean I'm upset with the way this is, or that I want everything to change, no. I was trying to understand because I just started cacheing this month, and want to know in advance what is and is not acceptable.

 

I will admit that the way the current guidelines are does not make sense to me entirely, but right now I'm just enjoying going out caching. I now know that in the future, if I ever want to make an event cache, I now understand the current guidelines on what works and what doesn't.

 

Actually, it's kind of refreshing to see the subject not completely polarized. There are at least three separate camps on this one. The most sensible one I see is the one where they see the event cache didn't fit the guidelines, but the guidelines clearly need revising.

 

This is the statement through all of this I agree with most, but what do I know, I'm new ;)

 

Celticwulf

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After reading through the various postings, it seems that if Geocaching is to be for Geocachers, then the rules for caches and events should be constructed around what the membership wants - as long as it is not illegal, immoral, or difficult to administer.

 

You're assuming that this is an issue for the majority. Most of the people who drawn to post to threads like this are the ones who are unhappy with the the way things are. There are probably thousands out there who have no problem with the guidelines (oops, rules) in their present form.

Not true. I'm not unhappy about the 'way things are'. I just have an opinion and am taking the opportunity to express it. I see a way to max out the exposure and make some Events more meaningful ~ more meaningful than sitting at the local breakfast buffet, jabbering about finds and DNF's. I've also asked for clarification. None of which means I'm unhappy with the present rules or guidelines, (2 things that basically mean the same.)

 

An example of changes of good laws/rules in place. Years ago, the Fed's set the speed limit at 55 MPH. The reasons were good: Safety, fuel conservation, etc. After sometime, other advances allowed the regulations to be changed to 70 MPH: improved fuel eff cars, technically advanced safety systems, etc. ... the same could be said of this rule/regulation/guideline/law, (4 things that mean the same - this will cause someone to pick this to death). Present rules forbid having joint operations unless you deceive the Reviewer with wording. Some of us are suggesting that why make someone deceive the Reviewer when you can let them at least ask higher up the food chain, if a joint session could be approved with certain organizations in mind. Make the Events more meaningful than Smack n' Chat.

 

With that said, I don't have a problem with attending the Smack n' Chats either. I have attended some that were never submitted but just had some local folk invited for lunch. It was entertaining. ;)

 

B)

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You're assuming that this is an issue for the majority.  Most of the people who  drawn to post to threads like this are the ones who are unhappy with the the way things are. There are probably thousands out there who have no problem with the guidelines (oops, rules) in their present form.

 

Sorry, but I don't think that the thousands of people who have no problem with the guidelines really are at issue here. As in any group or society, the majority of people are followers and will not participate in these types of issues. It's the same at election time relative to voting.

 

What's at issue is the fairness of the rules and how well they reflect the needs and activites of the group to which they apply.

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Here's a fuzzier one. What if one was piggy-backed onto a terracaching event?

Actually it's a standard practice that terracaching events can be cross-posted with events on other sites. You don't get any 'smiley points' for attending an event over there though. It's just an event. You meet and greet and when it's over you can post a note but you don't get a point for it.

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). Present rules forbid having joint operations unless you deceive the Reviewer with wording. Some of us are suggesting that why make someone deceive the Reviewer when you can let them at least ask higher up the food chain, if a joint session could be approved with certain organizations in mind. Make the Events more meaningful than Smack n' Chat.

 

Gosh, Yamahammer, I hope you didn't mean me with that "deceive the Reviewer" part. Our meet and greet was poorly written the first time, it seems. I didn't agree with the reviewer, but next year we made it clearer what we were doing.

 

I get the feeling that for some areas, there are any number of events that occur over a meal. Not so here. I really like cachers and like meeting them. We put a great deal of work into our event and had games for the kids and the cachers, too.

 

(shrug) Don't knock all the "Smack n' Chat's", is all I guess I'm saying.

 

I think this discussion is interesting....

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What's at issue is the fairness of the rules and how well they reflect the needs and activites of the group to which they apply.

what's not fair is if the rules are changed after you submit and your event gets denied. the rules were in place when you hit submit, I don't see how that's unfair. ;)

 

i've read this whole thread and can't see where the issue is, the guidelines read simple:

  • organize an event, have a GPS-O game -> good
  • organize a GPS-O event for another site, try to list it on gc.com -> bad

we had an event earlier on this year that was HUGE for our club and it got denied. I can see where it was denied even though that part was less clear (to me) than this one was, but it's there, and mtn-man explained it nicely after that. the scope of the event was huge for our club (we had done it in previous years) yet nobody quit over it. we just went to plan B and went on with life.

 

B)

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ATMouse, if you'll finish reading my post, you'll see that I also stated that:

 

"With that said, I don't have a problem with attending the Smack n' Chats either. I have attended some that were never submitted but just had some local folk invited for lunch. It was entertaining."

 

You'll also need to go back and read the posts from the beginning. There are more than a few who suggested just that, check the wording. If you word it one way, it won't be approved but if you word another way, with the same intentions, it will be approved. ~ Maybe 'deceive' is too harsh a word but I think you get the picture.

 

I'm just saying, all along, is that maybe it's time to review the rule/etc.

 

Hang in there.

;)

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A rule is not a rule just because it can be and a rule should not be made to simply restrict people for no legitimate reason. A rule or law is a reflection of the society to which it applies. It should be made to identify the guidelines that one needs to work within to have a functioning society (in this case Geocachers).

 

The rules on events either need to be rewritten or administered in line with the intent of the law, not the letter of the law.

;)

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*chop
Events no longer have to be "about geocaching," they just need to be about geocachers.

 

I don't see a lot of difference between the eat & meets, cacher bowling, and the like, and the mayonnaise eating contests you're talking about. (mind you, as I've already said, I don't have a problem with mayonnaise eating contests. Could be fun. But can we make it mustard?)

 

As I see it, either we need to examine the actual activities of the event, or you have to allow the silly events listed above along side the silly events that are already being allowed daily.

 

*chop

Ok, how you change the wording?

you could go back to be 'about geocaching' but then all you have to do to get a pizza event listed is call it a round table or club meeting and set some sort of agenda.

you could say there needs to be actuall geocaching. so you stick a magnet to the sign in front of the place and give out the coords, or you give out the coords or a new yet unpublished cache.

Youll still have meet the guidelines, and have silly events.

 

If you want the guidelines changed, how would you change them?

What is something you want at an event? What is something you dont? whats an easy way to shift the differences out? What/where/when/should? there be excpetions, how do you define those?

The difficult part isn't finding what not quite an approveable event fun thing thats getting screwed but figuring out how to filter them, makes most people happy, and is simple so the guideline isnt a book.

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The interesting thing is that over time the guidelines on events have been relaxed. The newer version made it easier to create events. In the past it was much more rigid.

 

Sadly, it will always be a case of "you can't please everybody". I guess it is up to the web site to decide where they want to draw the line. That line is a grey area (guideline and not a rule) to allow for things they have not though of when considering what to write for that part of the guidelines.

 

When in doubt, email the contact address and ask for permission.

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Having read the three previous GPS-O (Geo-Actuary) events description pages and logs.

I want to know why his events are not grandfathered if the rules have been relaxed.

 

The first event 0 attendees.

The second event had 1 attendee

The third event had 8 attendees.

I read everyones logs, all seemed to really enjoy it, and learned alot about both compasses and their GPS units

I fail to understand why an event that is getting more support from cachers each year, is denied.

 

He has a laptop for uploading coordinates for the searches, or you can manually enter all points.

There are different routes to do.

 

Alot of events have caches/locations/games that could not be listed on GC.com website but are alot of fun at the event.

 

At the end of the description he encourages people to participate in making his event even better by submitting comments or suggestions.

 

From what I have seen caching, learning how to use a compass better, would be an asset to alot of cachers - who rely entirely too much on batteries and electronic equipment.

 

Everything is listed quite clearly on the event page, if you dont want to go, don't sign up.

What's the problem?

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From what I have seen caching, learning how to use a compass better,  would be an asset to alot of cachers - who rely entirely too much on batteries and electronic equipment.

 

Everything is listed quite clearly on the event page, if you dont want to go, don't sign up.

What's the problem?

Yes, I guess this comment agrees with my bottom line so with this final thought I am gone from this thread... If there are any geocachers out there that want to improve their navagational skills go to an Orienteering event, get some basic instruction, and try a basic or intermediate course. You may not get a smilie, but as a result of the training you will find many more smilies in the future.

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