Gps In Russia

[cam_oai]

I heard many ppl say about no turists allow to take the GPS into the Russia. And i saw a website about that the goverment has changed it, so we can take the gps in Russia.

 

So has any1 has the info about "real" facts?

 

cheers

[+Jamie Z]

Last I checked the US State Department website still lists GPS as prohibited items.

 

That said, I understand (from threads on this forum and from some personal email exchanges) that the rule is rarely enforced.

 

Do a forum search for "russia" and you should find some information already here.

 

Jamie

[cam_oai]

can't find info about "russia", i did a search b4 i post the question

[Hoary]

I'm russian and I would say be very carefull with GPSr in Russia or better forget about it.

 

Officially (by the law) it's still illegal for civilian to determine a position with accuracy better than 30 meters. It's sounds strange, but it's true. Even more, you should have a some sort of permit on GPSr, you carry, which should be provided to you by the seller when you buy a GPSr.

 

In the real life, a lot of people have them and don't have any problems. I wouldn't have problems too (even so I live in US now). But for the foreigner I would recommend to leave it at home.

Edited October 24, 2005 by Hoary

[peter]

Officially (by the law) it's still illegal for civilian to determine a position with accuracy better than 30 meters.

So how do you determine where to put a fence or building addition without encroaching on your neighbor's lot? Afterall, positions have been determined accurately for a long time before GPS or GLONASS came about.

[+TotemLake]

Officially (by the law) it's still illegal for civilian to determine a position with accuracy better than 30 meters.

So how do you determine where to put a fence or building addition without encroaching on your neighbor's lot? Afterall, positions have been determined accurately for a long time before GPS or GLONASS came about.

You answered your own question.

 

It can be done with good old-fashioned survey scopes and benchmarks.

[peter]

Officially (by the law) it's still illegal for civilian to determine a position with accuracy better than 30 meters.

So how do you determine where to put a fence or building addition without encroaching on your neighbor's lot? Afterall, positions have been determined accurately for a long time before GPS or GLONASS came about.

You answered your own question.

 

It can be done with good old-fashioned survey scopes and benchmarks.

Not if it's illegal to determine positions with better accuracy than 30m. I'd still like to see some source for this supposed Russian law.

[Hoary]

Officially (by the law) it's still illegal for civilian to determine a position with accuracy better than 30 meters.

So how do you determine where to put a fence or building addition without encroaching on your neighbor's lot? Afterall, positions have been determined accurately for a long time before GPS or GLONASS came about.

I'll try to be as short as possible.

 

1. The people who does survey could be licensed to do it with enough accuracy (using GPSr or otherwise). There is an extensive network of landmarks which could be used for survey (old-time style).

2. Lifestyle is different. Most people live in big cities, in multy-stories apartment buildings. It's more like Manhattan.

[Hoary]

Not if it's illegal to determine positions with better accuracy than 30m.  I'd still like to see some source for this supposed Russian law.

I don't think I would be able to provide you proof (at least in English), but this thread could be interesting to read:

 

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16787

 

And here is some information from US Department of State:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1758.html

[cam_oai]

I'm russian and I would say be very carefull with GPSr in Russia or better forget about it.

 

Officially (by the law) it's still illegal for civilian to determine a position with accuracy better than 30 meters. It's sounds strange, but it's true. Even more, you should have a some sort of permit on GPSr, you carry, which should be provided to you by the seller when you buy a GPSr.

 

In the real life, a lot of people have them and don't have any problems. I wouldn't have problems too (even so I live in US now). But for the foreigner I would recommend to leave it at home.

do u know if it is possible to care it but not use it? i thought take the train from Moscow to Beijing and it would be nice to pack the gps in my back.

 

How do they know about the gps ppl are caring around?u can put it in your pockets and go out right?

 

*edit*

here is some info about ppl who "didn't" get caught http://dreamers1.com/russia/Practicalities...tm#Maps_and_GPS

Edited October 24, 2005 by cam_oai

[+Sputnik 57]

The state department site seems clear enough:

The penalty for using a GPS device in a manner which is determined to have compromised Russian national security can be a prison term of ten to twenty years. In December 1997, a U.S. citizen was imprisoned in Rostov-na-Donu for ten days on charges of espionage for using a GPS device to check the efficacy of newly-installed telecommunications equipment. He and his company believed the GPS had been legally imported and were not aware that Russian authorities considered nearby government installations secret.

 

No traveler should seek to import or use GPS equipment in any manner unless it has been properly and fully documented by the traveler in accordance with the instructions of the Glavgossvyaznadzor (Main Inspectorate in Communications) and is declared in full on a customs declaration at the point of entry to the Russian Federation.

 

All radio electronic devices brought into Russia must have a certificate from Glavgossvyaznadzor (Main Inspectorate in Communications) of the Russian Federation. This includes all emitting, transmitting, and receiving equipment such as GPS devices, cellular telephones, satellite telephones, and other kinds of radio electronic equipment. Excluded from the list are consumer electronic devices such as AM/FM radios.

. . .

FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:

 

State Customs Committee of the Russian Federation

Russia 107842 Moscow

1A Komsomolskaya Place

Telephone: 7-095-975-4070

Department for clearance of items for personal use:

Telephone: 7-095-975-4095

 

Glavgossvyaznadzor

Russia 117909 Moscow

Second Spasnailovkovsky 6

Telephone: 7-095-238-6331

Fax: 7-095-238-5102

 

Declare it, or develop a taste for borsht.

[peter]

Not if it's illegal to determine positions with better accuracy than 30m.  I'd still like to see some source for this supposed Russian law.

I don't think I would be able to provide you proof (at least in English)

A Russian language link would be fine. I know about the complex permit system that makes it difficult to legally use a GPS receiver, but yours is the first mention I've seen of a specific 30m regulation (neither of your links mentions such a rule).

[Hoary]

Not if it's illegal to determine positions with better accuracy than 30m.  I'd still like to see some source for this supposed Russian law.

I don't think I would be able to provide you proof (at least in English)

A Russian language link would be fine. I know about the complex permit system that makes it difficult to legally use a GPS receiver, but yours is the first mention I've seen of a specific 30m regulation (neither of your links mentions such a rule).

Here are a few links (mostly media-news) with mentioned limitations:

 

http://www.gisa.ru/22948.html?searchstring...%E5%F2%F0%EE%E2

 

http://www.gisa.ru/23437.html?searchstring...%E5%F2%F0%EE%E2

 

http://www.gisa.ru/24535.html?searchstring...%E5%F2%F0%EE%E2

 

http://www.gisa.ru/23194.html?searchstring...%E5%F2%F0%EE%E2

 

Babelfish ( http://babelfish.altavista.com/ ) translates it fairly well if you use "Translate a web page".

 

http://www.gisa.ru/ - is association which tryes to change current situation with maps and GPS use in Russia.

 

Edit:

 

Here is small summary of rules (russian):

 

http://www.gisa.ru/secret_space_data.html

Edited October 24, 2005 by Hoary

[+TotemLake]

Officially (by the law) it's still illegal for civilian to determine a position with accuracy better than 30 meters.

So how do you determine where to put a fence or building addition without encroaching on your neighbor's lot? Afterall, positions have been determined accurately for a long time before GPS or GLONASS came about.

You answered your own question.

 

It can be done with good old-fashioned survey scopes and benchmarks.

Not if it's illegal to determine positions with better accuracy than 30m. I'd still like to see some source for this supposed Russian law.

Of course, at this point I'm talking deep in my hat and will likely stand corrected but the keyword is CIVILIAN. If you have that kind of equipment in Russia, I would have to presume you have a slightly higher status than a mere civilian. However, I believe the "law" was intended to cover GPS and not some engineer's surveying equipment which will again have all the appropriate permits for having the equipment in the first place.

[peter]

Thanks Hoary for the list of sites. Looks like the rule predates satellite navigation systems and was intended to prevent dissemination of high accuracy maps and databases for security purposes and now there are active efforts to repeal these regulations in recognition of technical realities and the economic value of accurate navigation and other GIS applications.

 

Hope they're successful - there always seems to be substantial government resistance to relaxation of such rules.

[+Phone guy]

When you get to Moscow Airport, just go through the Green line. You wont have to declare it. I've been there and had a lot of $ and didn't declare it. Just remember when you leave to go through the line that had nothing to declare. Its easier to get in and out of Russia then the USA. I wouldn't let the Melitia see you with a GPSr. They don't even let you video around or in a train station. They also do not want you to take their picture either.

 

I know all of the above from experience.

[cam_oai]

okay, green line....hm...is there any lines? i know that i wouldn't declare stuff at all, just like when you travel to Vietnam. They ask you if you have more then 5000$ which you can say no. hehe. I think russia is quite same as Vietnam.

 

And what happens if i travel by train to moscow from from Finland? is there any controll at trainstation?

[Hoary]

okay, green line....hm...is there any lines? i know that i wouldn't declare stuff at all, just like when you travel to Vietnam. They ask you if you have more then 5000$ which you can say no. hehe. I think russia is quite same as Vietnam.

 

In fact, no. You'll be surprised.

 

And what happens if i travel by train to moscow from from Finland? is there any controll at trainstation?

 

There is a standart border and custom control when you'll be crossing the border. There is also passport control when you boarding the train.

 

Moscow has it's specific. You'll see more police on the streets, on the railwaystations, subway stations. This is all because of instability on a south (Chechnja). At any point policeman could ask you to show your passport or even what is in your bag.

 

Good luck on your trip.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Hoary

[cam_oai]

would they ask you more if you look like asian?more trouble/questions for tourists do you think?

[Hoary]

would they ask you more if you look like asian?

 

Don't think so. They are looking mostly for "caucazian", but this word has different meaning in Russian. It's for people who are native for Caucasus Mountain region.

 

more trouble/questions for tourists do you think?

 

Like usual, try to look and behave like people around you.

If you'll be staying in Moscow for more than one day (by law, I believe, tree days, but use one day rule) you should have a "registration". Registering in a hotel you're getting this "registration" automatically.

 

BTW, when you'll be on the train to Beijing, ask train attendant ("provodnik" in Russian) to show you post which marks the border between Europe and Asia. You could see a location of this post on a small map on this page:

 

http://www.seat61.com/Trans-Siberian.htm

 

It's in the middle of Ural Mountains.