2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 How about some serious competition with a (small) prize for the winner? We have an Idea for a friendly game and we are willing to put up a 1 year premium membership (for GC.com) (or if there is enough interest maybe we could get a disk for the prize) to the winner. For the rules, we suggest the following: 1) There will be a 6 month time period to complete (as best as possible) the following Marker Type list. 2) You will need to get a picture of each type of Mark and include your GPSr in the picture. The GPSr must show the coordinates and the Date! If the GPSr can not be read then it will not count! 3) Only marks found after the start of the competition will count. This will start everyone on an even playing field. 4) Only one of each type will be applied to your total. 5) We will have a thread where you can post a link to the PID# of those you have found. (Try to post your finds in groups to help make it a bit easier to keep track of your finds.) Please let us know which type of mark you are submitting. (As in - PID# GQ0323 = V = stone monument, PID# GP0572 = 21 = airport beacon, PID# FS0759 = Q = chiseled square) 6) You may revisit previous finds and include them in your competition list of types. (Make sure your GPSr shows the date to get credit for it, though) The marker type is listed just below the designation on the GC.com datasheets. Here is a link to a thread where we described how we use GSAK to find the different types in our area. Sorting marker types Feel free to use what ever sorting method you prefer to get you the highest number of marker types. How does Nov 1st sound as the starting date? Will that give you enough time to get a game plan ready? Is 6 months a good length of time to run the competition? Any suggestions? Are you interested? Sound like fun? The list of benchmark types... 01 = LONE TREE 02 = CONSPICUOUS ROCK 03 = MOUNTAIN PEAK 04 = ROCK PINNACLE 05 = ROCK AWASH 11 = PILING 12 = DOLPHIN 13 = LIGHTHOUSE 14 = NAVIGATION LIGHT 15 = RANGE MARKER 16 = DAYBEACON 17 = FLAG TOWER 18 = SIGNAL MAST 21 = AIRPORT BEACON 22 = AIRWAY BEACON 25 = RADAR ANTENNA 26 = SPHERICAL RADOME 27 = RADIO RANGE MAST 28 = LORAN MAST 41 = ANTENNA MAST 42 = RADIO/TV MAST 43 = RADIO/TV TOWER 44 = MICROWAVE MAST 45 = MICROWAVE TOWER 51 = TANK 52 = STANDPIPE TANK 53 = ELEVATED TANK 54 = WATER TOWER 55 = TOWER 56 = SKELETON TOWER 57 = LOOKOUT TOWER 58 = CONTROL TOWER 61 = POLE 62 = FLAGPOLE 63 = STACK 64 = SILO 65 = GRAIN ELEVATOR 66 = WINDMILL 67 = OIL DERRICK 68 = COMMERCIAL SIGN 69 = REGULATORY SIGN 70 = MONUMENT 71 = BOUNDARY MONUMENT 72 = CAIRN 73 = LOOKOUT HOUSE 74 = LARGE CROSS 75 = BELFRY 81 = GABLE 82 = FINIAL 83 = FLAGSTAFF 84 = LIGHTNING ROD 85 = CHIMNEY 86 = CUPOLA 87 = DOME 88 = OBSERVATORY DOME 89 = SPIRE 90 = CHURCH SPIRE 91 = CHURCH CROSS 92 = ANTENNA ON ROOF 93 = MICROWAVE ANTENNA ON BUILDING 94 = ROOFTOP VENTILATOR 95 = ROOFTOP BLOCKHOUSE A = ALUMINUM MARKER B = BOLT C = CAP OF CAP-AND-BOLT PAIR DA = ASTRO MARKER (USUALLY A DISK) DB = BENCH MARK DISK DD = SURVEY DISK DE = TRAVERSE STATION DISK DG = GRAVITY STATION DISK DH = HORIZONTAL CONTROL DISK DJ = TIDAL STATION DISK DK = GRAVITY REFERENCE MARK DISK DM = MAGNETIC STATION DISK DO = NOT SPECIFIED OR SEE DESCRIPTION DP = BASE LINE PIER DQ = CALIBRATION BASE LINE DISK DR = REFERENCE MARK DISK DS = TRIANGULATION STATION DISK DT = TOPOGRAPHIC STATION DISK DU = BOUNDARY MARKER DV = VERTICAL CONTROL DISK DW = NOS HYDROGRAPHIC SURVEY DISK DZ = AZIMUTH MARK DISK E = EARTHENWARE POT F = FLANGE-ENCASED ROD G = GLASS BOTTLE H = DRILL HOLE I = METAL ROD J = EARTHENWARE JUG K = CLAY TILE PIPE L = ABSOLUTE GRAVITY STATION PLUG M = AMMO SHELL CASING N = NAIL O = CHISELED CIRCLE P = PIPE CAP Q = CHISELED SQUARE R = RIVET S = SPIKE T = CHISELED TRIANGLE U = CONCRETE POST V = STONE MONUMENT W = UNMONUMENTED X = CHISELED CROSS Y = DRILL HOLE IN BRICK Z = SEE DESCRIPTION This post brought to you by John & Shirley - 2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Quote Link to comment
Z15 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 In my area, 95% of those do not exist. Also Nov would be a bad time in the Norhern states, Winter. Quote Link to comment
ArtMan Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) Dont know about yours, but my GPSr (Garmin etrex) shows position and date/time on different screens. -ArtMan- Edited October 23, 2005 by ArtMan Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) Artman, just having the GPSr show the date would work, since the idea behind that is to prevent using a log/post of a mark already found. You would then need to return to such marks and get updated shots of them. Z15, if you have any suggestions that would help out the "Northern" folks we will be glad to listen. This is all just a draft to get input from the benchmarkers and see if there is enough interest to carry forward. John Edited to add - If people would rather have a different Prize, as in paying for GSAK or something similar in price, just suggest away. Edited October 23, 2005 by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Quote Link to comment
+BilboB Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I'd be interested in this, but I too live in the Northeast. How about running this for a year, but take your best 6 months benchmarking, or something like that. Benchmarking with 2', 3', and even 4' of snow on the ground while fun (cabin fever sets in January/February), it is not for everyone. Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 BilboB, We used to live in northern Indiana about 25 miles from the Michigan stateline, so we understand about the snow sticking around. I don't know if I have enough fortitude to run it for a full year. How about a 2 month run (Nov. & Dec.)? You would have to hustle a bit more to get the ground marks before the heavy snows, but then you could switch to the intersection types (towers, beacons, tanks, etc.) of marks. Z15, Been checking and of those marker types IDed with letters (haven't got to the numbered ones yet) there is only at most 1/2 dozen in our county, and it is a big county! John Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 12 = DOLPHIN Dolphin?!? The resident dolphin is taken aback to know that some of his relatives are being used as benchmarks! I don't even know what some of these things are! But, I am game! It would certainly make an interesting database. My Garmin Etrex does not show date and coordinates on the same screen. Would I have to submit two pictures for each benchmark? Can two people use the same benchmark? Quote Link to comment
Difficult Run Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 John, I'm not particularly interested in this competition, as I would rather focus on researching "lost" benchmarks. Perhaps a friendly competition on finding a mark which has the largest number of previous DNFs. - Mitch - Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 Harry, 1 picture with the date and benchmark will work. More than one person can log a benchmark on GC.com so I see no problem with more than one person logging a specific mark. Personally, I not nice enough to help the competition, so they would have to look for the same mark on their own. Difficult Run, It's an idea worth considering. If I don't muck up this first competition, I may give it a go. John Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I am game too. But probably won't place,but I could go find the 25 or so different marks I have found again. I think it will do well. Quote Link to comment
+cjf Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I think your competition idea sounds intriguing. I'd like to participate. Snow isn't a problem here in the San Francisco Bay Area, so whenever and for whatever duration works for me. (Now it's off to GSAK to see if there is a dolphin marker near me!) Colleen Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Harry refuses to be used as a benchmark! I've started looking through my list of finds, and see 17 different types so far, though some I will not be able to get back to: A cupola in Nassau County, NY, of the Washington Monument. Oh,well. A few of my finds have no type listed. Is 1.5 miles across the river acceptable? I can get four or five that way. Empire State Building can be see from miles away! Hmm... I shall have to work on this! Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 Harry refuses to be used as a benchmark! I've started looking through my list of finds, and see 17 different types so far, though some I will not be able to get back to: A cupola in Nassau County, NY, of the Washington Monument. Oh,well. A few of my finds have no type listed. Is 1.5 miles across the river acceptable? I can get four or five that way. Empire State Building can be see from miles away! Hmm... I shall have to work on this! Mr. Harry Benchmark , I have a question...how close to the intersection station (ie the Empire State Building) is considered close enough for a surveyor? I remember the thread about the person logging the 'space needle' with a picture taken while driving down the interstate... Shirley~ Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 A photo taken from my cache Weehawken View. KU3602 92 = ANTENNA ON ROOF It is an intersection(?) station. Meant to be viewed from afar. Distance is 2.3 miles. Another example. KU4009 MANHATTAN GRANTS TOMB DOME MARKER: 87 = DOME And, same picture KU4022 MANHATTAN RIVERSIDE BAP CH TWR MARKER: 55 = TOWER Taken from North Bergen, probably 3 or 4 miles I really should go back to Riverside. Neither of these has been logged in NGS since 1932! Whatcha think, Shirley? Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 Shirley has turned in for the night, since she gets up at about 2AM to get ready for work. If that is the distance a surveyor would use the marks then the ruling old fart say it's Okay. Just don't tell Shirley I said that! John Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 Harry, What a cool cache that must be, to see such a view! I agree with the ruling oldfart on this one....those are absolutely identifiable. Gotta go to slave away now... Have a great day all and good hunting! Shirley~ Quote Link to comment
ArtMan Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 If that is the distance a surveyor would use the marks then the ruling old fart say it's Okay. Just don't tell Shirley I said that! John I thought that was the whole point of intersection stations — that they can be seen from miles away. But it is a good question: to what extent is this long-distance triangulation still done? -ArtMan- Quote Link to comment
Z15 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 (edited) Once upon a time when we did survey projects that used intersection stations (last time was in the late 70's) we observed all we could see from the main stations but sent a man out the next day to get all the details possible for it. Description, To Reach, ownership, height, type of construction etc. Back in those days there were no webs sites for this info and we had to contact the owners, when possible. If we could not get the info or the site was restricted we mentioned in the description that the site was not visited. Also, all existing stations were position confirmed to be sure the station was the very same. I recall we found an antenna that was not in the very same location because they erected a new antenna next to existing one and without the survey data, you would likely not know it was not the same. Granted, they are not going to move historical landmarks but never say never. There is a water tank landmark here that was built (fire protection was inadequate with the old tank) to resemble the original tower and on the same location, albeit 50 ft apart. Reason was the Nat'l Park forced them to. Along comes the USPSQS and they have no idea they tank they keep reporting is an imposter. PS-Worked for state dot but the surveys were for NGS mark densification. Edited October 25, 2005 by Z15 Quote Link to comment
CallawayMT Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 But it is a good question: to what extent is this long-distance triangulation still done? -ArtMan- ArtMan, Good question again, these intersection stations are probably used by 0-5% of surveyors in this day and age. They had their use and time, but now with GPS there are very few surveyors who would actually use them. That is one reason why I sometimes grin about the very opionated and serious discussions on the reporting of these stations. Other than as a historical item, mostly they are not used. CallawayMT Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 I really love all of the history behind the Surveying profession. The 'go to descriptions' of some of the marks that we have found, are truly amazing. If it were not for the coordinates along with the topo maps...we would find it very hard to determine which trail to which ranch (if it still exists) to take. Here is a sample of what I am talking about. HO0458 - BUCKSKIN The Surveyors and the Miners of old, were a very tough breed it seems... I understand the reason that all of those tall buildings were used because of the ability to triangulate from point to point. Why were 'buried' glass jars and earthen ware used? That would seem to be rather difficult for any other surveyor to have gone back to reuse. (I know...another dumb question from me) but, I find it hard to guess 'the why' on these buried marks. Shirley~ Quote Link to comment
Difficult Run Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Shirley, There is no glass mentioned in BUCKSKIN mark you mentioned, but many subsurface marks, (those set several feet below an intersection/triangulation station) are glass bottles or some other "unique" items that would not be confused with a natural occurence. Examples: 1) Top of a soda bottle 2) Top of an earthen jug 3) Nail set in a concrete mass, etc. However, I did find the 1972 recovery of Buckskin interesting.... "FOUND BY HELICOPTER" Could they read the disk from waaaay up there?? - Mitch - Quote Link to comment
mloser Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Z15, Did I read your post correctly? Intersection stations aren't used any more? Matt Quote Link to comment
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