Grave Robbers ?

[+wavector]

Taken from an article in the Canadian Press, October 18, 2005. The actual title of the article in my local paper is Grave Robbing Fears Develop

***********

Barrie, Ont.

An online treasure hunting game is raising fears that a national historic site near Barrie, Ont could fal victime to grave robbers.

The historic African Church and Cemetery in the township of Oro-Medonte has been listed on a website dedicated to greocaching.

Geocaching involves the use of a global positioning system to find a "cache", typically a small waterproof container containing trinkets of little value.

Numerous holes have been discovered on the African Church property.

Oro-Medonte Mayor Nell Craig says the activity is unacceptable, and wants the church and the cemetery removed from the list.

The church. built in 1849, dates back to the days of Canada's undergraound railroad.

************

 

This is a very poor portrayal of the activity and grossly inaccurate, "waterproof containers", I know for sure they have never geocached.

Is this National Historic site in the Register ?

Does the cache page say "Bring a shovel, extensive excavation may be required, loot possible, weear black."

 

Who writes this stuff, perhaps someone in the OGA should phone Nell Craig.

Edited October 18, 2005 by wavector

[rynd]

Like almost all in the press: the story sounds inflammatory so there is no need to check facts, and in this case facts would hurt the story so they aren't going to be printed anyway. You need to jump on this or it won't be long before someone tries to make cacheing illegal there like they're trying in South Carolina.

[+northernpenguin]

I guess This is the cache in question. When I heard about this I was wondering at first if it was the church in Chatham that has a underground railroad cache but soon learned otherwise.

 

This is just the kind of thing we need with the Parks Canada / Ontario Parks thing happening - more misinformation. Just great. This has been said already, but bears repeating -- hopefully this gets sorted before another North Carolina occurs

[+Half-Canadian]

I had the same reaction -- -- yesterday when I heard this reported on a 24-hour all news and traffic AM station in Vancouver. It didn't identify the location but described hole digging, cemetery, and geocaching in the same sentence. I thought it was a location in Vancouver, and other listeners probably thought the same. Given the fact that it's a virtual, it's completely irresponsible journalism.

[+Olar]

I agree that this should be nipped in the bud before it grows worse. I don't think the mayor would appreciate a wave of emails from geocachers however contact by an OGA representative and/or the COGA would be wise. Contact information from their township website can be found here.

Olar

[Utsman]

Wow geocaching news so close to me for once, but its not good news I have been called by three people who know I geocache asking if I was involved in this. I told them I have never been the to the graveyard let alone believe that the holes having anything to do with geocaching. The site in question is a virtual cache, and right now Geocaching's name is being dragged through the mud.

[+ElectroQTed]

I read the article in our local paper (The Record) today after my wife pointed it out to me. I couldn't believe what I was reading and searched for a cache at such a cemetery and discovered it was a virtual, as others have already pointed out. I was going to fire off an email to Neil Craig but then I read Olar's reply and tend to agree with his opinion completely. An email from OGA admin would be a much better way to approach the situation initially. I'd really like to know who wrote that piece of journalistic crap.

[+TrimblesTrek]

I've emailed OGA Admin with the contact info for the mayor of Oro-Medonte

[+Keith Watson]

I would expect nothing less than a full and mediate retraction.

[Utsman]

I would expect nothing less than a full and mediate retraction.

I agree, I think some should contact the Orillia Mirror is it (I’m form Barrie) and demand a retraction and fire the person that wrote the article.

[+Olar]

I don't think we should jump on the local newsprint folks for the time being. According to the OP it was a "Canadian Press" article and we should be tracking down the CP journalist and his/her source (if any) to start with. The local rags only pick-up the story from CP's system and presumably do not have to verify it's accuracy in order to reprint.

 

Olar

[Utsman]

Ok maybe getting someone fired is a little much, but I think we should still bug them about a retraction. They printed false information so they should print the retraction and possibly a better informed article on geocaching.

[+ibycus]

Ok maybe getting someone fired is a little much, but I think we should still bug them about a retraction. They printed false information so they should print the retraction and possibly a better informed article on geocaching.

Just playing devil's advocate here, what exactly above was inaccurate?

[Utsman]

Well the cache that "apparently" has caused holes to be dug in a graveyard is a virtual cache. I would highly doubt the holes are cause by a virtual cache.

Edited October 19, 2005 by Utsman

[OGA - Admin]

Copy of the Email that OGA - Admin sent to the Mayor of Oro-Medonte

 

It is unfortunate that I must write this email to you.

 

According to a recent news article quoted below, there is an impression that Geocaching has caused the recent damage to the cemetery in Oro-Medonte.

 

This is simply untrue.

 

Geocaching is an activity that does not allow digging of any kind.  This statement can be verified at our site www.ontgeocaching.com as well as the international site www.geocaching.com and even our primary contact at Parks Canada, Ms. Claire McNeil at <removed for her privacy> can assure you that we are not a digging activity.

 

Further to this, the Geocache listed on the Geocaching.com site is a Virtual Cache, which is not a container style find at all.  A Virtual Cache is placed where a physical cache cannot be, and used to highlight an area of public interest.  The intention is to show people a significant location of importance, one that is of historical nature and potentially of educational awareness.  The basic premise is to visit the site like any other tourist or interested party and take a picture of yourself at the site.  There may be a requirement to email a piece of information, like a name or a date, back to the owner for verification of the visit.  To put it simply, the impact of this style of cache equates to a family learning some local history

 

I encourage you to see this listing for yourself at this link

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...03-b3faef7d9917

 

However, the basic description is “Located in Oro-Medonte between Barrie and Orillia, Ontario. Easy access by road but don't blink or you'll miss it!

When you think of the end of the Underground Railroad you think of communities like Buxton and Chatham but one of the earliest Black settlements in Ontario was in Oro-Medonte. This cache is located on the site of one of the last remnants of this settlement.

To prove your visit you must either post a picture of the main structure on the site or e-mail, but don't post on the log-even encrypted- the family name of one of the settlers carved on the cairn.”

 

Geocaching has recently caught the attention of the media, due to the moratorium on physical Geocaches within Federal and Provincial Parks.  We at the Ontario Geocaching Association are currently helping those groups develop effective policies to regulate the activity. Both Parks Canada and Ontario Parks have informed us that they feel Geocaching can be of benefit to the park system provided that respect for nature is observed and liability issues are minimized.  While certain aspects of the media have tried to present this story as an adversarial one, the truth is much more mundane and cooperative.

Please feel free to contact me at any time should you wish more information or to discuss this activity.  Geocaching has always been a family-friendly activity that is enjoyed by thousands of citizens across Ontario.  It can also be a source of tourism, but never at the expense of respect for a community or park land.  In fact, in addition to rules that forbid digging, we also forbid commercial uses of Geocaching and have a strong stewardship ethic in that whenever a Geocache does have an issue it is addressed on the spot, as no member of our activity wish anyone to have a negative experience.

Edited October 19, 2005 by OGA - Admin

[+ibycus]

Well the cache that "apparently" has caused holes to be dug in a graveyard is a virtual cache. I would highly doubt the holes are cause by a virtual cache.

They didn't say that one did cause the other, only that there were concerns that they might be linked (which obviously they aren't). The connection is implied, but is far from explicit.

[+Keith Watson]

Is the OGA currently dialoging with Parks Canada and or Ontario Parks? I was under the impressions that the talks had pretty well broken off while the parks moved forward with removing caches. Most of the discussions I have seen on the forums are around publications in the media about the bans.

[danoshimano]

Numerous holes have been discovered on the African Church property.

Skunks like to dig numerous holes on lawns.

[Twister65]

Copy of the Email that OGA - Admin sent to the Mayor of Oro-Medonte

 

8< snip! >8

Excellent letter!

 

Scott

[+logger&trail]

I think I would suspect kids with metal detectors looking for old "stuff" before I would point a finger at geocaching.

 

Bad reporting at its worst, Makes me sad to admit I work in the media.

 

Logger

[Utsman]

Copy of the Email that OGA - Admin sent to the Mayor of Oro-Medonte

 

8< snip! >8

Excellent letter!

 

Scott

I agree....still need to get retraction from the paper.

[OGA - Admin]

Utsman Posted on Oct 18 2005, 07:48 PM

 

I agree....still need to get retraction from the paper. 

 

To quote Jeremy (Founder of Groundspeak)

 

Workin' on it!

 

OGA will be contacting the Canadian Press and hopefully the author of the article to correct it and hopefully get a retraction issued.

 

One of our membership has close ties to the Canadian Press and will be looking for all the required information. Should anyone have this information, I would appreciate it being sent to me at admin@ontgeocaching.com

 

Also is anyone has a link to the quoted story, could they post it here?

 

We need to try to correct this damage, while it is fresh in the news.

 

OGA - Admin

 

P.S. OGA has continued to stay in contact with Parks Canada, and we have exchanged emails regarding a few of the recent media stories. Neither group feels that our interests or the interests of the other parties has been fairly represented. There is little else that can be said as it seems the media is not being accurate to anyone in this story. As for Ontario Parks, things are developing slowly, and we have heard rumours, but reporting them here would not be professional until we have it on good authority.

[Utsman]

This articles going to be print today 19 October 2005 in one of Barries biggest papers the Examiner, the paper services the area of about 150,000 + people.

 

News Link

 

Other papers printed this article yesterday, can't find links to there web sites.

Edited October 19, 2005 by Utsman

[OGA - Admin]

OGA has sent the Barrie Examiner a copy of the email that was sent to the Mayor of Oro-Medonte, along with a brief statement that they are welcome to contact us to arrange an interview with myself and/or our local representative.

 

Anyone local should contact this media provider and submit "Letters to the Editor" and/or request an opportunity to rebut these accusations.

 

To me, there are no facts or proof provided that the Geocaching community is an any way involved in this situation.

 

OGA - Admin

[Utsman]

I am local so I am going to write a letter to the editor.

[+Swifteroo]

Wow.. I have pretty much fallen asleep at the Geocaching Forum Wheel to have missed this thread. I have been playing through this situation ever since I heard a report on a local country music station regarding this incident.

 

It is unfortunate that such comments were put forth by the actual Mayor of Oro-Medonte, but you have to figure that he is only working with information that has been provided to him by his informants (I hope anyhow). I don't know that they Mayor himself is to blame for these comments, however, I guess you can argue that he did say them.

 

Anyhow, I visited the spot just after I heard the news, and quite honestly, I did not notice any obvious signs of "digging" of any sort. In fact, the whole time I was there was very peaceful. This is a great location and I feel priveleged that it is within Simcoe County. I would never have known to visit this location otherwise.

 

Although I would not want to downplay the vandalism of a site like this in ANY respect, I believe that the involvement of Geocaching in this whole fiasco has simply been blown way out of proportion. It says to me that there are numerous locals who are obviously concerned that are grasping at anything they can find to prosecute someone for these events.

[P&A Canoe]

Read The article just now

I drive by the turn off every day and have been to it (didn't have the Camera)

I was real suprised that we are to blame, most of us I don't think are into doing alot of digging, kind of runes the whole idea of a nice walk.

[+TrimblesTrek]

...I was real suprised that we are to blame

The whole point of this topic is that we AREN'T to blame!!!

 

Point 1: Its a VIRTUAL. No container, therefore nothing to hunt for.

Point 2: WE DON'T DIG

 

...most of us I don't think are into doing alot of digging

I would hope that you aren't "into" ANY digging! It's geocaching. Digging is forbidden! Leave your shovel at home!

 

-TT-

[Utsman]

Here is a draft copy of what i'm sending the paper as a letter to the editor. Tell me if I should add or remove anything.

 

I am replying to the column ‘Area church a victim of online game’ that was printed on October 18th. The fears that geocaching and the holes that have been found at the historic African church and cemetery in the township of Oro-Medonte are linked are simply untrue. As a local Geocacher I am disappointed in the lack of facts that the article provided. Geocaching allows no digging of any kind. The cache located at the African church is a virtual cache meaning there is no container to locate. The idea of virtual cache is to draw people to locations where physical or traditional caches can’t be placed and is usually a place of historical or educational value. Since there is no physical container at a virtual cache the Geocacher must take a picture of himself with a GPS to prove that he was there or answer a online trivia question like dates or names that can be found at the cache. The idea for the virtual cache at the African church is to show Geocachers the local history of the Underground Railroad; many people don’t know that the site in Oro-Medonte was one of the earliest black settlements in Ontario. The virtual cache at the African church has been there since June 2002 and found by over 90 Geocachers all commenting on the great history of the caches location. While Geocachers are visiting caches they are encouraged to Cache In Trash Out or CITO where the Geocacher cleans up any garbage seen while Geocaching. A few Geocachers have reported in their online logs doing some CITO and removing garbage from the African church site. Aside from virtual caches there is another type of cache, which the article vaguely refers to are called traditional caches. Traditional caches have physical containers whether that is a Tupperware container, ammo can or a 35mm film canister is for the cache placer to decide and to be later found by other Geocachers with a GPS. Under no circumstance are these caches ever buried its against the games rules. They are usually placed in fallen logs or on the ground covered in foliage, but never buried.

In the end there is no physical geocaching container at the African church or cemetery. Geocaching is a family oriented game that encourages going outside and getting away from the computer either to locate traditional caches or to visit historical places or places or interest by virtual caching. I encourage anyone interested in geocaching to check it out for themselves at www.geocaching.com

 

Concerned Geocacher

Name Removed

 

Edit - I was thinking about this and realized that it was a virtual cache which meant it’s been there a long time without any other problems. I add the line about when it was place and how many people visited it.

 

Added a few line about CITO thanks you jaktar.

Edited October 19, 2005 by Utsman

[+Olar]

Looks good to me. The only addition I might suggest is an offer to the editor to have one of their journalists interview and spend some time with a geocaching representative by contacting our OGA - Admin. Well done Utsman.

 

Olar

[Utsman]

Looks good to me. The only addition I might suggest is an offer to the editor to have one of their journalists interview and spend some time with a geocaching representative by contacting our OGA - Admin. Well done Utsman.

 

Olar

Excellent Idea! I'll put it as a note for the editor.

[+jaktar]

It may be appropriate to add how Geocaching benifits the community through the cito policy and in particular the site in question. If you go through the logs there is reference to some CITO having being done by cachers at this site.

 

faire winds jaktar

[Utsman]

It may be appropriate to add how Geocaching benifits the community through the cito policy and in particular the site in question. If you go through the logs there is reference to some CITO having being done by cachers at this site.

 

faire winds jaktar

Excellent idea I remember reading this in the logs. Thank-you for the input I will added a line or two about CITO.

Edited October 19, 2005 by Utsman

[OGA - Admin]

UTSman - Well written, hope you send it off immediately.

 

NOZZLETIME TALKS AT A TOWN COUNCIL MEETING

 

Tonight, one of the more prolific Geocachers in Ontario, Nozzletime, took it upon himself to drive to the Virtual Cache to gather information about the digging.

 

While he was taking photos, he met one of the Town Councillors in the parking lot of the Church and after some discussion, Nozzletime was invited to speak at this evening's Town Council Meeting.

 

After he explained the activity of Geocaching, and the entries about this specific Virtual, the Town Council came to understand that Geocaching was falsely suggested as the offending group.

 

The town council became impressed with the activity, the actions of people cleaning up the area while visiting and the numerous reports of families enjoying the historical and educational aspect. There was even talk of developing some form of tourism based upon GPS technology.

 

We at OGA applaud the efforts of Nozzletime, and still intend to seek a retraction from Canadian Press.

 

On behalf of OGA, the Mayor has been contacted again this evening to thank him for allowing the Geocaching community the opportunity to explain the activity and to offer our services.

 

OGA - Admin

[Utsman]

Very good news...I will be e-mailing and personaly dropping off a copy of my letter to the editor tommorrow.

[+Team Tigger International]

Good work Nozzletime.

Sometimes actions speak louder than words.

 

Wulf

[+ElectroQTed]

That is awesome news for geocaching! It sounds like Nozzletime single-handedly turned the situation in Oro-Medonte around, at least for the locals. All hail Ambassador Nozzletime! Hopefully a retraction in the papers will correctly inform the rest of Canada.

[+AV Dezign]

That is awesome news for geocaching! It sounds like Nozzletime single-handedly turned the situation in Oro-Medonte around, at least for the locals. All hail Ambassador Nozzletime! Hopefully a retraction in the papers will correctly inform the rest of Canada.

Retractions... Have you ever seen one, they are ussually stuck in the back of the paper, upside down, near the spamy ads. The damage is done, and there are probably a lot of people now who think baddly of geocachers and they will stay that way for quite some time. Because of this idiocy, we will have to fight ignorance even more in the future when it comes to placin caches, this was a big step backwards if you ask me.

 

---

 

Thanks for your great work Nozzletime, you are doing everybody here a great big favor, you make us move in the right dirrection. Say thanks to Smudge too for me, I'm sure he help in his own way just by being cute.

Edited October 20, 2005 by AV Dezign

[+Binrat]

Thanks for all the hard work Nozzletime & Smudge.

 

Has anyone thought of putting a note on the cache in question just in case any uninformed person visits the page.

 

Binrat

[+ElectroQTed]

Kudos also to OGA Admin for the timely and well-written letter to Neil Craig (mayor of Oro-Medonte) and others who will be writing letters to editors of various papers.

[+Keith Watson]

1) Geocaching has recently caught the attention of the media, due to the moratorium on physical Geocaches within Federal and Provincial Parks. We at the Ontario Geocaching Association are currently helping those groups develop effective policies to regulate the activity.

 

2) OGA has continued to stay in contact with Parks Canada, and we have exchanged emails regarding a few of the recent media stories

 

3) As for Ontario Parks, things are developing slowly, and we have heard rumours, but reporting them here would not be professional until we have it on good authority.

Looking at the above statements it would seem 2 and 3 are not consistent with 1. Can you explain. Is the OGA currently helping those groups develop effective policies at this time, or are communications at this point more or less the OGA trying to find out what the parks authorities are doing?

 

Secondly, thank Noz for taking it on yourself to meet with the local council. Shouldn’t the OGA have taken a more active role in this rather than just sending off an email?

[+Zartimus]

NOZZLETIME TALKS AT A TOWN COUNCIL MEETING

Hehehehe. I can't think of many better geo-people to enlighten town council muggles<grin>.

[+Shawn&Holly]

Wow, 2 days from paper to speaking with the town council, I'm impressed with the turn around of the situation. I also do not see how the OGA could have been more actively involved without the chance meeting, sending an email to start with is a great start, without a response how do you proceed? Call? Mail? I think 2 days is more then anyone could have anticipated. Thanks Nozzletime for taking the time to drive out there for photos of the site and meeting with the town council when the opportunity presented. The way the story was presented in the paper, I highly doubt that a retraction will be printed, but at least the town will not be requesting any caches in the town be removed. I have seen a number of caches removed over the years in my area, good to see this one get turned around so quickly.

 

OGA Reps for the region of Prescott and Russell.

[+Amazon Annie]

NOZZLETIME TALKS AT A TOWN COUNCIL MEETING

 

Oh heavens... with all this attention the man's ego will be unbearable!

 

Wow, 2 days from paper to speaking with the town council, I'm impressed with the turn around of the situation. I also do not see how the OGA could have been more actively involved without the chance meeting, sending an email to start with is a great start, without a response how do you proceed? Call? Mail? I think 2 days is more then anyone could have anticipated. Thanks Nozzletime for taking the time to drive out there for photos of the site and meeting with the town council when the opportunity presented. The way the story was presented in the paper, I highly doubt that a retraction will be printed, but at least the town will not be requesting any caches in the town be removed. I have seen a number of caches removed over the years in my area, good to see this one get turned around so quickly.

 

Thanks Shawn and Holly for your comments. Storming the castle with full guns blazing (okay, some mixed metaphors there) would have been a bit much I think, even for OGA. I feel that the proper avenues were followed and if there were no responses then a road trip would have taken place. Thanks to Nozzletime for taking on the ambassadorship (he called me from the site and I was thrilled to encourage him to carry the message. We all know what a charming fellow he can be... at times. Just don't tell him I said that. )

 

Retractions may be buried (not like our caches) but I think Swifteroo may have his hands full with PR jobs up that way. I'm sure he will do a great job. Sometimes we can make lemonade out of lemons. We may end up with some attention this way and the Oro-Medonte people may end up singing our praises and passing on the message. Who knows! I like to think this is will end up as a positive event.

[+Olar]

NOZZLETIME TALKS AT A TOWN COUNCIL MEETING

 

Oh heavens... with all this attention the man's ego will be unbearable!

 

I don't think that Smudge is getting enough credit for what happened. Truth be told, Nozzletime told him to sit by the exit door and not let anyone leave until he was finished his speech. Talk about a captive audience!!

 

Thank you N & S for everything you did on behalf of geocaching in Ontario. A beer and doggy biscuit for sure the next time we meet.

 

Cheers, Olar

[+Swifteroo]

Wow.. what a whirlwind issue! Nozzletime, thank you for really stepping up to the plate when the need arose.

 

The issue did create a scar which will obviously take time to heal on a nationwide basis. I think that based on the reaction that we gave to the Township of Oro-Medonte as a Geocaching entity, we will be able to take such a catastrophe and turn it into a vastly more positive spin. We already have some of the members of Council of the Township of Oro-Medonte throwing out ideas for possible integration of geocaching related activites into their future tourism industry plans.

 

And yes Annie, there will be a pile of followup to do not only with the Mayor of Oro-Medonte, but with the local media as well. You better believe that I will be doing everything in my power to get through to these outlets that I have listened to, and trusted for so long. I am about 24 hours away from cancelling my Barrie Examiner subscription permanently if I do not get word back from them

 

In terms of how long it took the OGA to respond to this issue, by the time I had heard about all of this on the radio, and began to react, I had already begun to recieve the emails that were flying back and forth between the OGA and various other recipients. While it may have been possible to approach the Oro-Medonte city council, I don't think it would have been as effective or beneficial as what has now transpired. I can not believe how well it worked out that Nozzletime was in the right place at the right time. Its like it was meant to be.

 

Again, congrats Nozzletime, congrats OGA and lets work to make this a good scenario for everyone involved.

[+Swifteroo]

As an addendum, does anyone have an idea of how to stop the spread of this horrific story? I understand that there is an attempt to have this story retracted, but I mean, its already being reported in Montreal

 

We cannot possibly write to every newspaper that pops up can we? I guess we must try. I have responded similarily to the Gazette as I have with the Barrie Examiner.

[+Star2004]

I was just looking on the local TV stations web site and found this article. Close to a retraction.

 

Holes In Ground Outside Historic Church Still A Mystery

The people who look after the historic 1849 Oro African Church north of Barrie are still scratching their heads. After groundskeepers starting noticing several holes in the ground behind the building, they discovered the site had been placed on an internet treasure hunting website. Players, they believed, were encouraged to bury items while other players would dig them up. That angered township officials and members of the Oro-Medonte Historic Committee that manages the wooden structure used by early Black settlers in Simcoe County. But a number of players have now e-mailed Oro-Medonte Township to say they only take pictures of the treasure hunt locations and never dig. Mayor Neil Craig likes the publicity his municipality is receiving. As far as who dug the holes, that's still an unanswered question.

 

Did any geocacher talk to A Channel or is this infomation from the Mayor?

 

Star2004

[+Thrak]

The AUTHOR of the original story needs to be fired. Period. My wife is a news reporter and I can tell you that irresponsible journalism such as this is not something to be tolerated. A fairly recent "news" article published by an out of town paper regarding certain aspects of my home town contained totally bogus "facts" and extremely inaccurate reporting. Protests from local citizens and our local paper resulted in the dismissal of the so called reporter who had manufactured info for his story. The same should happen to the author of this article. He is causing irreparable damage.

 

Anybody ever heard of Dan Rather????? Publishing a story such as this without documentation or investigation is extremely unethical. Both the author and the news editor need to be fired or at least severely reprimanded.

[+Swifteroo]

It wasn't me who contacted A-Channel although, I applaud that they at least are reporting based on fact rather than just assuming.

 

This article at least tells it like it truly is. for once. A-Channel gets my vote.