+Tomahawk chop shop Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I was just wondering...so many people places caches together yet only the first person listed gets the credit for it. is there anyway to get this aspect changed. i looked thru a lot of the caches in my area and noticed that there are many people that place caches together. one reason i feel that both people should be credited is for the main fact that both took the time to place it and create it and if someone needs to fix the cache they both maintain it. if you can't contact one of the owners you can contact the other. i just think it is something to be looked into because i would like credit for the caches that i helped place yet don't get credit for. also i can't log thoes caches so they don't get checked off my list. just wondering what you other cachers think about it and how it can be changed or if it can be? Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I think it's a fair request. Only the site can comment on how difficult that is to implement. Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 i just think it is something to be looked into because i would like credit for the caches that i helped place yet don't get credit for. also i can't log thoes caches so they don't get checked off my list. just wondering what you other cachers think about it and how it can be changed or if it can be? I had brought this up a while back concerning co-ownership of an Event cache. We had put forth quite a bit of time, effort, and money towards an Event that we held last May and thought that it would have been nice to have it listed on our stat page. Of course only one name got that credit added to his stats page. Really not that big a deal but i would still like to see a feature like this implemented sooner or later. Quote Link to comment
+EcoPit Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Try mentioning it in the Geocaching.com Website Forum. Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Why? What does this "credit" do for you? I don't understand. Quote Link to comment
+sept1c_tank Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Why? What does this "credit" do for you? I don't understand. It's like getting a big hug; it feels good but nothing else has changed. Quote Link to comment
+darus67 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Like wetting yourself while wearing dark pants. You get a warm feeling, but no one else notices. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Why? What does this "credit" do for you? I don't understand. My sister and I have some joint caches in Boise. If she's out of town some people may know to look my name up and email me. Others will just get my sisters account even though the name on the cache has us both. If you wanted a responce "Now" being able to get a hold of either or both of us directly has a benifit. Plus the credit would be that it's listed under my hides and my sisters hides. Not just hers. Another benifit, is a bozo bin. If you hate all my hides and filter them out using GPXSonar or GSAK you won't accidently miss the caches I was involved in. Especially if I get credit in the title as "RK" and not by my account. Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Plus the credit would be that it's listed under my hides and my sisters hides. Not just hers. There it is again. Credit. What is the excitement about having a number over in the hides column? Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Why? What does this "credit" do for you? I don't understand. It's like getting a big hug; it feels good but nothing else has changed. I think you need to work on getting some hugs from eople other than your Aunties then. Quote Link to comment
+denali7 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 If you hate all my hides and filter them out using GPXSonar or GSAK you won't accidently miss the caches I was involved in. temporary sidetrack: how does this work? can this be done through easygps, bookmark lists, or pocket queries? how is this used through gpxsonar? i've read referrences to the ability to do this, but haven't come across the "how to" of it all. Quote Link to comment
Tahosa and Sons Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I've run into that situation on several occasions and what I do is allow the assistant hider the honors of being the FTF. After all they found the location so its a find in my book. They get credit and I get credit. Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Plus the credit would be that it's listed under my hides and my sisters hides. Not just hers. There it is again. Credit. What is the excitement about having a number over in the hides column? Criminal, you dont care about your stats and your opinion is noted. Nothing wrong with that at all but dont come off telling people that it is silly or wrong. For alot of people, keeping up with their stats (hides are part of your stats) is another aspect of geocaching that is fun for them to do.. Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Criminal, you dont care about your stats and your opinion is noted I do care about my stats actually. I care that they are accurate, not phony. I do not care about who has the most icons. … but dont come off telling people that it is silly or wrong I don’t know why you’ve taken a directive tone with me, I’m not under your authority. At no point in this whole thread did I ever say anything was “silly” or “wrong”. Unfortunately for all of us, the inane desire to have numbers over in the hide column has led to cache pollution, crap caches that serve no purpose but to elevate the numbers in the left column for others. I still enjoy being taken to great scenery or unknown wonders. I am as entitled to an opinion as anyone else. Quote Link to comment
+clearpath Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I still enjoy being taken to great scenery or unknown wonders. ... even more than a double nipple titty twister ... Quote Link to comment
+CurmudgeonlyGal Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Why? What does this "credit" do for you? I don't understand. While I'm not sure I really care who gets the warm fuzzies... eh... nevermind. Quote Link to comment
+Moose Mob Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 (edited) SA comment deleted. Edited October 17, 2005 by Moose Mob Quote Link to comment
+budd-rdc Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 If you are eager to share in the responsibilities of maintaining the cache, you can always put that cache on the watch list. You won't be able to enable/disable/archive the listing, however. I really don't see the benefits of having more than one account manage a cache. If you still want to get the "credit" without the responsibility, there are other places besides Geocaching for that, like politics. Quote Link to comment
+Tomahawk chop shop Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 its amazing how a simple innocent question has to get nasty. Criminal just because you don't like to hide caches doesn't mean some of us don't...if it wasn't for people with lots of numbers in the hide column then you would have nothing to hunt...duh! and maybe in my area me and my friend are the only ones that hide stuff...hmmmm....we need more caches in our area so we don't have to drive 20 miles to the nearest cache...now go ahead and smart off to that...what are you going to tell me to do...MOVE...your not a good geocacher...your a geocomplainer... as for allowing me to be the FTF...tried that and to many of the local cachers got bent over it..so to appease the gods i took my name off...i seriously haven't seen so many adult men complain so much in my life...some of the local cachers in my area that have found 600+ caches can't find a simple cache and my coords are off cuz of their stupidity...so i try to better it and get scrutinized for it... if you complain about the game then get your thumb out of your mouth and grow up! the object is not for the cache to jump out at you..and if im gonna place it with a friend i should get the credit since i did just as much work...ugh! Quote Link to comment
+TotemLake Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Personally, I didn't see anything nasty about Criminal's opinion. He is merely challenging your need to have credit. It reminds me of another thread where someone disagreed with another woman's opinion and they were called out as a bully for it. Here, you're just as personal with your attacks when a man disagrees with you. Lighten up and re-read his posts. There was nothing personal there except an opinion that he took ownership of. What I find amazing is this need to have credit for it. Why not just live and let be? On the next hide you and your friend work on, you take the credit. It's a simple thing. Some think this is a good idea to have that there. Others will question it and yet others like myself, will be ambivalent to the idea. Three opinions voiced in many different ways. As to dual ownership/hiding of caches, it's been done many times and the other half has never (to my recollection) complained they haven't received credit before this. They merely put both names there and let one be the "owner" and one be the "watcher". It's called working within the system instead of calling for a change. Quote Link to comment
+tands Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Here's my take on this. When two hiders team up on a good cache, it's not unreasonable for them to both want to share in the credit for something they're proud of. S and I want credit for the caches we placed. There's nothing wrong with that. If it's not something that folks reasonably want, then why does the site list credit for the first hider? Also, what's the motivation for anyone who feels the need to 'challenge' others who ask reasonable questions? It seems like that kind of thing is the same thing as saying 'I'm not a numbers person about hides, that make me special.' That's only my opinion. - T of TandS Quote Link to comment
+TotemLake Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Here's my take on this. When two hiders team up on a good cache, it's not unreasonable for them to both want to share in the credit for something they're proud of. S and I want credit for the caches we placed. There's nothing wrong with that. If it's not something that folks reasonably want, then why does the site list credit for the first hider? Also, what's the motivation for anyone who feels the need to 'challenge' others who ask reasonable questions? It seems like that kind of thing is the same thing as saying 'I'm not a numbers person about hides, that make me special.' That's only my opinion. - T of TandS There's nothing wrong with challenging opinions. Without it, there's no debate on the merits of the change and all you do is surround yourself with yes men telling you what a great person you are and what astounding ideas you have in spite of the fact it all might be otherwise. The underlying reason why the "ownership" is there in the first place is primarily contact information in case there is a problem with the cache, you know who to directly send e-mail to through the gc.com system. It was not primarily intended for messages of kudos. Kudos are primarily found in the Found It logs. That's where the Watcher function works so well for what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment
+Quiggle Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 From the Forum Guidelines (available at the top of every forum page): Some things to keep in mind when posting: Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect. Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated. Let's take it down a notch and get back to the [original] topic at-hand. Thank you. Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) its amazing how a simple innocent question has to get nasty If you wouldn’t mind, please point out where exactly I was “nasty”. I asked a seemingly simple question, what does the credit get for you or do for you? It still remains open since nobody has really come up with a good explanation. I don’t understand the need for credit so I asked. If you consider that nasty, don’t read my past posts about permission, your fragile heart may explode. Criminal just because you don't like to hide caches doesn't mean some of us don't... Uh, I said that where? duh Good one! your not a good geocacher Oh yeah? Well you’re grammer ain’t so hot either. Kidding aside, you’re right, I’m a terrible cacher. as for allowing me to be the…snip What’s this rant about? You lost me here Curly. Woo woo woo! and if im gonna place it with a friend i should get the credit since i did just as much work...ugh! I don’t have any idea what you’re trying to convey in the first part of that so I casually ignored it. As for the part I quoted here, you are right, you should get credit. If you work the New Cache Submission page correctly, you can. My question remains: Why do you need or want credit on your stats page. I only ask because I honestly don’t understand. What is the fascination? EDIT: Removed the Einstein remark after reading the post above mine. Edited October 18, 2005 by Criminal Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Joint credit is like signing your name to the book you just co-wrote. Quote Link to comment
+sept1c_tank Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I think the whole credit thing stems from the same concept that inspired the theme song from Cheers: “Sometimes you want to go, where everybody knows your name.” Credit is credit, and as discussed above, you can get credit for duel ownership of a cache. But I agree with Criminal; the fascination for accumulating icons and numbers should not outweigh or dictate one’s caching activities. Here’s a thought. If you want the caches you have placed in conjunction with another cacher to appear on your stats, just adopt them back and forth every month or so…if you really want the credit. Quote Link to comment
+Skyman Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 As to dual ownership/hiding of caches, it's been done many times and the other half has never (to my recollection) complained they haven't received credit before this. They merely put both names there and let one be the "owner" and one be the "watcher". It's called working within the system instead of calling for a change. I like that synopsis. I just scanned over this thread and might have over looked the suggestion that I am suggesting here. I understand the reasoning in having each get a credit for an event or a new cache but until the ptb make it possible. Then why not just have a team account and you can link to your profiles on the page for identity credit. Quote Link to comment
+tands Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Then why not just have a team account and you can link to your profiles on the page for identity credit. Brilliant! We plan to do this. - T of TandS Quote Link to comment
stash tracker Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Man, it certainly does get heated in here, doesn't it? I understand what you mean by wanting credit for caches you placed. Personally, I think there should be an option on the cache entry page that allows you to choose that this is a joint cache, and it would give you credit for placing a JOINT cache on your stats page. Then, the ones you placed alone would show up, as well as ones you co-own. Maybe? Just my opinion, though, as I am sure some won't care for it. Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Plus the credit would be that it's listed under my hides and my sisters hides. Not just hers. There it is again. Credit. What is the excitement about having a number over in the hides column? Criminal, you are like me in this respect; no, not the thing about hankering for cute nanny goats, but in that you do not give a rat's a** about stats and numbers. However, even though I do not even think of such things, I realize that they are important to some other people, or at least "fun" for other people. So, in my mind the bottom line is that it takes all kinds of people to make up this sport. Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Here's my take on this. When two hiders team up on a good cache, it's not unreasonable for them to both want to share in the credit for something they're proud of. S and I want credit for the caches we placed. There's nothing wrong with that.... - T of TandS Very well put! I agree with you statment in this regard. Even for those folks like myself who do not care about numbers, if I place a great joint hide with another cacher, it is still fun to see it attributed to both of us. My opinion only! Quote Link to comment
vagabond Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Ok for instance Breeder caches, the original owner gets the credit for the breeder placement, the hider of the breeder get to look at it in his not found list unless they log it as found and then that opens another can of worms about logging your own hides as far as I'm concerned it just helps to clear a not found from your list. Not anything to do with hidden icons or found icons. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Ok for instance Breeder caches, the original owner gets the credit for the breeder placement, the hider of the breeder get to look at it in his not found list unless they log it as found and then that opens another can of worms about logging your own hides as far as I'm concerned it just helps to clear a not found from your list. Not anything to do with hidden icons or found icons. You lost me on that. I had a breeder cache. The rule was to mention the name of the breeder in the cache's name when placed. Those were fair game for me to find since I didn't place them and really had nothing to do with them other than donating a container. What I got out of it was some caches to find in an area that was dead at the time. Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Then why not just have a team account and you can link to your profiles on the page for identity credit. Brilliant! We plan to do this. - T of TandS I dont look at it as being for "identity credit". Yes it is credit for a hide, but for me its more for keeping up with my geocaching timeline pretty much all in one place. For that reason, your suggestion of making a Team acount wouldnt work for me. By the way, it's definitely not about getting lots of numbers or icons for me. But even if it was, why should anyone else care? I'll stand by my statement that Criminal thinks its "silly" because of the way he asked his question. Of course it is his opinion and there was no harm done. The OP posed a legitimate question and there really wasnt even a reason to come back with: Why? What does this "credit" do for you? I don't understand". Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) It is just one cache that got hidden. So suppose that three people participated in finding the container, stocking it with trade items, getting permission, scouting a hiding spot, placing the cache and writing up the cache page, splitting up those tasks fairly among them. Give them each credit for 1/3 of a hide. Signed, Solomon Edited October 18, 2005 by The Leprechauns Quote Link to comment
+Team Neos Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Ya know, now that I think of it, it would be nice to have both (or all) hiders of a cache get credited with the cache, even if it was only for email contact purposes. That way, if one of the hiders dropped out of caching the cache would still be maintained, and emails would still reach an owner --without anyone having to adopt the cache, etc. My husband and I do have a joint account that we share some hides on--but the email to the 'cache owner' still comes only to my email address. If I were out of town for a few days, a cacher could email the joint account and get no reply, even if my husband was here the whole time. He puts the hides on his watchlist, but that doesn't help with emails directly to the cache owner. Joint hiders really should also share in maintaining the cache. Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 If one of the co-hiders drops out of geocaching, it is a very simple matter to use the do-it-yourself adoption tool in order to transfer ownership to someone else. For joint hides with a spouse, brother or trusted friend, if you use a team account it is a very simple matter to redirect the e-mails if the primary cache-minder is out of town. Either change the e-mail address associated with the profile, or use a shared e-mail account to which all the team account members have access, or set up auto-forwarding to the e-mail addy for a team member who will mind the cache while the other person is away. Quote Link to comment
+Team Neos Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 True, the adoption process is easy enough---but that of course assumes that the person dropping out wants to admit they are dropping out and give up theri control. With a trusted family member, a joint account is not really a problem...but my husband doesn't like to go onto my account (even though he has the info) nor do I like to go on his account---Just a matter of giving the other one privacy. As for having another email account entirely to have to keep up with a couple of caches, that is for people who don't have a real life. I need my info to pop up where I am, not to have to chase it all accross the web. And as for "shared" account among several cachers not in the same family, not at the same computer, well, I had my fill earlier this year with a certain "team" of cachers who had at least four people logging online to make comments in the forums. I thought it was just one person with multiple personalities for the longest time! Nah, it is really easier all the way around to just allow joint credit--I can't imagine why anyone would care if that was allowed. Quote Link to comment
vagabond Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Ok for instance Breeder caches, the original owner gets the credit for the breeder placement, the hider of the breeder get to look at it in his not found list unless they log it as found and then that opens another can of worms about logging your own hides as far as I'm concerned it just helps to clear a not found from your list. Not anything to do with hidden icons or found icons. You lost me on that. I had a breeder cache. The rule was to mention the name of the breeder in the cache's name when placed. Those were fair game for me to find since I didn't place them and really had nothing to do with them other than donating a container. What I got out of it was some caches to find in an area that was dead at the time. Ok the original cache is archived but some of its offspring are still around. here it is, its different then the one you mentioned Breeder Quote Link to comment
+wildearth2001 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I think this change should be made, but not necissarily for the credit. I dont care if I get credit on my stats for hiding a cache, so long as my name is on the cache page. The other issues of a seeker being able to contact both owners easily, a seeker easily ignoring a cache becuause of the cohider and to make sure it stays off of the cohiders searches, maps, quiries and what have you. Also, my guess is so long as people keep making this about credit TPTB will never go for it Just my opinion Quote Link to comment
+Deneye Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) Plus the credit would be that it's listed under my hides and my sisters hides. Not just hers. There it is again. Credit. What is the excitement about having a number over in the hides column? Proof of acceptance. Everyone who joins a group wants to be accepted by the others in the group. Hiding a cache and having it approved and then "published" acts as a badge of acceptance that some people feel (maybe subconsciously) is necessary for them to continue with their endeavors... The sense of contribution. "Giving something back to the community" is another, shall we say, geneticly ingrained social behaviour of ours...(i wonder whose toes I just stepped on ) After accopmlishing something, some task, or being inolved in something from behind the scenes...once we feel confident with our understanding of it, we sometimes feel the need to give something back...a social payment of sorts. My own trials tended towards the latter, but my efforts were in vain and my time wasted and i became disgruntled with my slower-than-molasses-in-january approver (or maybe just the System) but that's another story. One of these days i'll get around to making some great hides that'll be worth the trip becuase i still feel the desire to give something back to you all... Oh yeah, and then there's the ugly third door...It's all about the numbers, man! Edited October 19, 2005 by Deneye Quote Link to comment
+budd-rdc Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Call me old-fashioned, but I think getting name recognition in the cache page is credit enough. I see some potential headaches for allowing more than one account to manage a cache: - servers will have to increase the amount of e-mails sent - can of worms: why stop at two? why not three? etc. - what if there's disagreement between the maintainers? - <paranoid> if a feature exists, it will be exploited </paranoid> As I've stated earlier, responsibility is big part of getting credit, and it's no different with caches. My observation so far is that most people maintain caches when they have to, not because they want to, so I'm puzzled as to why people'd want to take co-ownership, when putting it on watchlist can bring in all the fun without the headaches. Quote Link to comment
+denali7 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Proof of acceptance. Everyone who joins a group wants to be accepted by the others in the group. Hiding a cache and having it approved and then "published" acts as a badge of acceptance that some people feel (maybe subconsciously) is necessary for them to continue with their endeavors... The sense of contribution. "Giving something back to the community" is another, shall we say, geneticly ingrained social behaviour of ours...(i wonder whose toes I just stepped on ) After accopmlishing something, some task, or being inolved in something from behind the scenes...once we feel confident with our understanding of it, we sometimes feel the need to give something back...a social payment of sorts. dead-on observation, denaye, and very well-stated. Quote Link to comment
+CowlesCachers Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I recently placed 4 caches with a friend. His complaint is that he cannot go to "His Caches" and and go to the cache page quickly. He has to go to caches hidden by me. Ha also is unable to edit the cache page and has no other administrative options to the cache. IMHO I think that the name placed as cache owner should match a GC username, and give an area for both users for not only credit but administrative purposes. Unfortunatly people are judged when you click on there profile and they have several hundred finds with no hides. (cuz I do it too...) Quote Link to comment
+Deliveryguy428 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Honestly if I team up with someone to do a cache with them and it is a puzzle cache, then I am MORE then willing NOT to get my name listed just because I have a slow buidling reputation of making my puzzles harder each time so I rather let the other person take all the wonderful credit and wonderful 4 letter word e-mails saying how hard the cache puzzles are Quote Link to comment
kcart Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 <paranoid> if a feature exists, it will be exploited </paranoid> putting it on watchlist can bring in all the fun without the headaches I think budd-rdc nailed it. I have one co-hide (didn't want to call it a joint hide) and the icon went my co-hiders. I really don't mind. They happen to be very good cache maintainers and cache page admins. I still take my share of responsibility. After the first DNF I went out to check and sure enough, stage 2 of the multi was missing. I reported it to them, they disabled the listing then went back out and replaced the stage. When we hide our next one I'm sure they will be more than happy to let me have the icon. I've also seen single use member accounts created for a special cache hidden by several cachers, though obviously only one of them can admin, none of them get an icon of their own. Quote Link to comment
+Yamahammer Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I think the bases of the original OP was motivation. Some people's have different things the motivate them. Stats. Proof. Credit. Money (cache? or cash $$$?), just a stroke every now and again. Ownership. Pride. ~ Some people don't need any of that and get by on other sensery tiggles. There has also been a thread started each week about getting more hides and ways to promote hides. Yesterday, someone wanted an expiration date (born on date) for caches. (I'm not promoting more hides without thought), but if stats will give someone the motivation to become more productive on hides, I can agree with it. Personally, I don't think the combination hides are that big of a percentage to worry about. One answer is, if you team with someone(s), this time the cache hide is yours, the next is mine and so on. Quote Link to comment
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