+raptnblue Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 It's me again, Rapt the newbie. Ok, having a few problems with the set-up stuff. I have a new Garmin 60CS and I am fumbling thru its setup. When I bought the unit, I also purchased the Auto Navigation Kit which included the City Select software--- unit also came with a basemap. My question is this, Do I need topo software also? I live 10 min away from the Blue Ridge Mountains and wanted to do some hiking type caches as well as the more suburban/urban ones. If I need this, what should I buy---price isn't really an issue, just want what I want, when I need it. I understand some of the software is just National Parks and Forests---That's cool but I don't want to be just limited to that. Any other tips would be appreciated also and by the way, I already feel as if I found my first "treasure" when I discovered this sport. Quote Link to comment
+kingquad Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 the answer to your question realy goes back to you,.....you don't really NEED TOPO,....it's just DO YOU WANT TOPO, it will show you all elevations and more accurate streams and stuff, but beside that it doesn't do that much more. Quote Link to comment
+raptnblue Posted October 15, 2005 Author Share Posted October 15, 2005 ...So which sofware do you recommend? Quote Link to comment
+Miragee Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 If you have the 60CS, you just have to get the City Select software so the unit can auto-route you to your destinations, as well as tell you where the nearest gas station is and other POIs (Points of Interest). That is just such a time-saver and gas-saver. The Topo software is also nice to have. I have that on my computer with the City Select on my Vista C. You can have both on the 60CS at the same time. Quote Link to comment
+kingquad Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 I also have Topo and Metroguide on my 60C, but I still think that if you are not a big hardcore hiker, it is not really worth all that extra money for Topo....I only use Topo when I am out in the forest for a long long hike... Quote Link to comment
+Sevateem Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 If you have a 60cs You HAVE to use the Garmin topo soft ware if you want to be able to load the maps into the GPS. And you can print them. If you just want to be able to print out paper maps, National Geographic Back Roads Explorer is great. Quote Link to comment
+Chuy! Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 If price isn't an issue, then buy Garmin's Topo so you can print them and download them into your GPS. By sticking with Garmin, you can use the same program to run both the mapping and topo software. I have City Select as well, but use Google Earth and the Topo link on the webpages to view the topography. All I really need are the coords of a trailhead to get me started. Quote Link to comment
+wolfmaster Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I have an old Garmin E-Map with US Roads and Recreations and Topo. Living in the Allegheny National Forest, the topo is nice because it's more detailed in elevation. The Roads map is nice when I am caching in town, more detailed on the streets. I bought them used so it didn't cost an arm or leg. Now it's just the gas that costs that much. Quote Link to comment
willyum Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Just be aware there are 2 Topo versions. The Topo 24k is much more detailed than the regular Topo (I think it is 4X more info) BUT WAIT!!! The regular Topo covers all of the US and the TOPO 24k ONLY covers national parks. ALL OTHER AREAS ARE BLANK. Even if your STATE park is huge, it's not covered. Quote Link to comment
+Thrak Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Just be aware there are 2 Topo versions. The Topo 24k is much more detailed than the regular Topo (I think it is 4X more info) BUT WAIT!!! The regular Topo covers all of the US and the TOPO 24k ONLY covers national parks. ALL OTHER AREAS ARE BLANK. Even if your STATE park is huge, it's not covered. Is that accurate? I know that TOPO 24k is broken into different regions but I didn't realize it ONLY covered the National Parks! If that's true it really sucks hard since it's $100 a pop per region. Are you certain that is correct? Quote Link to comment
+raptnblue Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 (edited) So, buy the Topo Everything to cover your bases, right? An another question, so what if I go across country, how do I load all the maps required to drive there? Won't that be way too much data? Edited October 17, 2005 by raptnblue Quote Link to comment
willyum Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Here are the differences. These are 'Prnt Scrn' scans from the actual program from me. The first pic is the Topo 24k The next is the regular Topo at same area and same magnification...(looks like more info here but........) The third is 200 ft on the Topo 24k and the last is the map with the regular Topo If you want I can post two more for comparison over the non covered areas of the 24k, you will only see the raw base map. On the first pic you can see the squares where there is info available for download. you can also check this link at Garmin to see the scalable map. http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSourc...o24knpeast.jsp# Quote Link to comment
+Sputnik 57 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 An another question, so what if I go across country, how do I load all the maps required to drive there? Won't that be way too much data? Well, the most common approach is load the City Select maps for your starting and ending points, and for any area you might stay in during the trip. The 60C will seamlessly switch from the detailed City Select maps to the basemap to route you along stretches of highway. The basemap has major roads, which most people take on long trips. If you are taking a long trip along back roads, you may need to bring along a laptop, although you can basically get a route from Chicago to LA in 56MB or less. More about maps, and switching between USA Topo City Select, in questions 7-9 of the Maps section of the FAQ. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 My question is this, Do I need topo software also? I live 10 min away from the Blue Ridge Mountains and wanted to do some hiking type caches as well as the more suburban/urban ones. If I need this, what should I buy---price isn't really an issue, just want what I want, when I need it Need, no. But I found Mapsource Topo to be be a very valuable tool. I run it on my 60CS along with City Select. I switch between the programs depending on my needs, but I find myself using Topo about 80 percent of the time. Topo is very handy for hiking and geocaching in the woods. It tells me if there is a stream, ravine, swamp, mountain, cliff, etc... between me and the cache. It helps me play my route. Just last weekend I climbed a pretty high hill to find a cache. Then I saw the next nearest was almost a mile away. A straight line walk would have taken me down, then back up again. Topo showed a ridgeline that connected the two, so I followed that, which made the trek much easier. Topo has been a major timesaver for me. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 My experience has been similar to BrianSnat's. Both are handy but Topo more handy in general. Quote Link to comment
+raptnblue Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 So Garmin Topo East? I like to cover my bases and want more than just national parks. If its true that I can only download Garmin software into the unit and print, then it's Topo East for Garmin? And thanks for the drive/download info. It's so hard being a newbie. Quote Link to comment
+Army1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I just bought a 60CS as well...it's still in the mail but I should have it this weekend :-) I need a map that is as detailed as 1:24,000 (is that scale a 7.5 map?). I want to jump in the mountains along the App Trail portions of PA as well as navigate through downtown Philadelphia. I thought my BEST choice was the Nat'l Geographic STATE maps because they give me 1:24,000. The Nat'l Geographic East is something like 1:100,000 and has very little detail. I did not know that the 60CS imports ONLY Garmin software...is that true??? I need 1:24,000 more than anything, I can MapQuest downtown Philly! I need off-road detail deep in the wood hunting info....Is the Nat'l Geo software the way to go? Oh heck, I'll just go buy some PowerBall tickets and the $99 for each state won't matter, with $340M, I'll buy my OWN state! Army1 (aka George) Quote Link to comment
+raptnblue Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) I'm hoping someone will clarify... Can we download other maps onto the 60CS? Edited October 19, 2005 by raptnblue Quote Link to comment
OGBO Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hey, rap... Just to clarify things a bit - You should actually learn basic map and compass skills before you head into non-urban areas. Your GPSR (the 60CS) tells you where you are and the direction and distance to where you want to go (if you have a waypoint for your destination loaded in). It does not tell you how to get there. That's what you use your map for. The only topographic maps that can be loaded into Garmin (and Magellan) receivers is their proprietary mapping software. To load USGS maps, you need certain models of Lowrance or a PDA that can be linked to a GPSR (some can slide into a proprietary slot, some can connect via USB or serial cables), or you can use a laptop connected to a GPSR. The laptop and PDA route require software such as National Geographic's Topo!, MapTech, or Delorme's TopoUSA. For USGS detail, you need the state series or National Parks series of one of these. NatGeo's BackRoads only uses 100k scanned maps, and Delorme uses vectorized 100k DEM files with a somewhat inaccurate vectorizing scheme. A serious deficiency with Garmin's and Magellan's proprietary topo mapping is that both use a vectorized scheme that is rather inaccurate at the equivalent of the 1:24000 scale. Plus the screens are very tiny. One of the things I keep putting into my evaluations for the companies. Street maps are fine for travel, but not for hiking. Your best bet is to use a combination of the proprietary topo software to give crude locations and terrain appearance, in combination with a true USGS map at 1:24000 scale, such as you can print out to match your area of interest with NatGeo's Topo! State series for your state (New England has several states in one package, most other states are 1 state per package - Delorme's state series are similar). Print out the paper map and carry it with you (the batteries won't die!). A PDA-loaded topo map is ok, as well - both NatGeo and Delorme can load the state-series 1:24000 maps into most Palm and Windows PDAs, but color is advantageous. Oh, yeah, should mention, I do a bit of consulting for some of these companies and worked professionally in the GPS arena for many years before retiring. Some of the features you will see in the software and hardware are derived from my input, and yes, I have a long list of "gotta haves" which have not yet been implemented, some of which will give you submeter locations under canopy someday soom. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 So Garmin Topo East? I like to cover my bases and want more than just national parks. If its true that I can only download Garmin software into the unit and print, then it's Topo East for Garmin? And thanks for the drive/download info. It's so hard being a newbie. As far as I know Garmin has a Topo for the entire US, not just the east. There is a way to download non Garmin maps to your GPS but it takes some time, a good bit of computer knowledge and the will to potentially void your unit's warranty. And no one's ever mentioned how well they work when is all done, Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I did not know that the 60CS imports ONLY Garmin software...is that true??? Yes, its true (to a point, see my post above). Its the same with Magellan and Lowrance. NG Topo will work WITH your 60CS but not ON it. Quote Link to comment
+Sputnik 57 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Neo Geo offers some advice on "rolling your own" maps in this post. I've never done it, and it seems pretty labor intensive. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I sometimes printout the 24K Topozone map from the link on the cache page. Then, in the field, with 100K Garmin Topo loaded in GPS, it's easy to locate yourself on the 24K paper topo map. You have the advantage of using the more accurate 24K map and the paper map is easy to see, mark up, etc. Quote Link to comment
+Army1 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Lots of great info here...so, If I want to load detailed map data on my GPS, I NEED software that allows me to upload/download data between my GPS and PC. But, I DO NOT need to buy any Garmin, Nat'l Geo, Delorme, etc., software to load map data on my GPS (currently Garmin's 12XL and 60CS). For a well-versed GPS person who is new to mapping with a GPS, the best all-around download is most likely GPSMapper, which is an all-encompassing program that provides great flexibility to work with detailed map data at 1:24,000 scale. QUESTION: If Nat'l Geo software works WITH my Garmin GPS but not ON my GPS, does buying the Garmin product make more sense because (I assume) it works ON the GPS? I don't want to buy a couple of programs...so I'll buy a good base map, and then start learning GPSMapper. I got a $100, ten for a few gallons of gas, two for a bag of pretzels, and the rest to purchase ONE mapping software for my Garmin GPS...which one should I buy? I didn't win the PowerBall :-( Thanks again. Army1 (George) Quote Link to comment
OGBO Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 briansnat - To clarify a bit - Garmin's Mapsource Topo will load topo maps for the whole US (3 CDs for East, West, and Alaska/Hawaii) into certain Garmin GPSRs (including the 60 and 76 series). However, these are pretty crude, vectorized from DEM files, and have significant deviations from reality for roads, trails, and topo configuration. Garmin has 2 packages for National Parks in the eastern and western US that are derived from 1:24000 scale maps. These are considerably more accurate than the whole-US version. Magellan's Mapsend Topo USA (current version is Mapsend Topo 3D USA) is similar to Garmin's whole-US package. To clarify your "use with, not on" comment - What this means is that with NatGeo's Topo! products, you can up- and down-load waypoints, routes, and tracks to most consumer GPS receivers. You cannot load NatGeo maps onto consumer GPS receivers, nor any other commercial mapping products (Delorme, Maptech, etc.). NatGeo has been attempting to make arrangements with the GPSR manufacturers, but they are pretty adamant about using their own proprietary products. The way around this is to use a PDA that is linked to a GPSR, either by way of a slot or a cable. NatGeo and Delorme have the capability of being loaded onto both Palm and Pocket PC PDAs, and there are GPSRs that link to some PDAs to show your track on a USGS-scanned color topo map from the computerized map companies. Quote Link to comment
+BassSax Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 ...So which sofware do you recommend? I would recommend Garmins Topo USA - THE 100K scale maps of the entire us. I f you do hiking in the back woods you would probably want more geographical map detail, and not cultural detail like where the nearest Big Mac can be purchased. The topo maps will give you contour terrain which is useful in that you will know that it looks your going to travel uphill on your given route. Basssax. Columbia, MD Quote Link to comment
+Army1 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I think the best map is any that get you 1:24,000., right now that seems to be National Geographic's TOPO! software. BTW, I simply CANNOT stand the streets and auto-routing on my new 60CS...anyone know how to turn the street functions off...I really liked the way the 12XL shows routes. Color is nice, but Keep It Simple Stupid works for me :-) --George Quote Link to comment
Tahosa and Sons Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 My preference is for paper maps that I produce on Nat Geo TOPO. You can do a lot nice map & compass stuff with them. Also after you've hiked a area you can download your GPS and make a real trail where you were. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 BTW, I simply CANNOT stand the streets and auto-routing on my new 60CS...anyone know how to turn the street functions off.. Why would you not like one of the best features of the unit.? Anyway, if you want to turn it off make sure you don't select "follow road" after a Go To. Quote Link to comment
+Army1 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Why would you not like one of the best features of the unit.? Because I want this for trail use, not for driving my car :-) I'm sure I can fix this, but now when I'm out on a trail all I see is the road map Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) Because I want this for trail use, not for driving my car :-) I'm sure I can fix this, but now when I'm out on a trail all I see is the road map Then go to 'setup map' and hide City Select and show Topo. Edited October 28, 2005 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+Sputnik 57 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 ...anyone know how to turn the street functions off...I really liked the way the 12XL shows routes. Color is nice, but Keep It Simple Stupid works for me :-) --George From the Map page, press MENU » 'Setup Map' » ENTR. One of maps you've loaded will be listed. Press MENU again, then » 'Hide City Select North A' » ENTR. You can use this procedure to hide or show any map (including the base map) that is loaded. More info (and a screen shot) at question 9 of the Maps Section of the FAQ. Quote Link to comment
+Army1 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 The go to 'setup map' and hide City Select and show Topo. I don't see that option under SETUP, MAP. The selections under MAP include: --GENERAL --TRACKS --POINTS --TEXT --INFORMATION (Americas Marine Point Basemap Jan 2001 is the only option) --MARINE Do I not have something installed? Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) I don't see that option under SETUP, MAP. The selections under MAP include: --GENERAL --TRACKS --POINTS --TEXT --INFORMATION (Americas Marine Point Basemap Jan 2001 is the only option) --MARINE Do I not have something installed? Do you have Mapsource Topo installed? Its not under setup from the main menu. Go to your map page, press menu, then you will see an option for 'setup map'. Select that. Edited October 28, 2005 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+Army1 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 No, all I show is the Americas Marine Point Basemap, Jan 2001. But yet I see I95 and the PA Turnpike when I'm out running in the woods trying to find a cache! Help me Obi-Wan! Quote Link to comment
+Sputnik 57 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Dont go to SETUP, MAP. From the map screen, press MENU. Then highlight "Setup Map" and press ENTR. Then press MENU again. You should then be able to select "Hide Basemap" and press ENTR. Poof! Basemap should be gone. Quote Link to comment
+Army1 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Got that now, thanks for the clarification. What type of maps can I now load other than waypoints? Will any trail maps work ON the 60CS? Thx again, George Quote Link to comment
willyum Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 There are 8 different series (types) of maps: -Topo 24k (very detailed topographical maps, limited coverage) -Topo 100k (Not as detailed, but covers all the States) -MetroGuide (all the streets, stores, resturants, entertainment, etc (with phone numbers)....but no auto-routing) -City Select (I believe it has less listings than Metro guide but adds Auto-routing) -City Navigator (both listings and routing in a newer format.) -Generic World Map (major roads for all the countries) -Blue Chart (Ocean stuff) -Lakes & Fishing (specialized lake stuff) Some series have multiple sets available for different coverage areas. You can load multiple maps at the same time into your 60CS, have them layered and turn them on/off dependings on your needs at the time. All this info is there on the Garmin 60CS page. The manual has some pretty good tips too. Quote Link to comment
+Army1 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 (edited) I thought I knew everything, and then Geocaching comes about...jeez! Okay, looks like we need a big get together in Philadelphia...see General >> Meetings and Events forum at WWW.SEPAG.US...I have access to a large facility with a laptop and projector in the University City area ;-) First meeting Tuesday, 1 Nov 05. GBL24@drexel.edu --George Edited October 29, 2005 by Army1 Quote Link to comment
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