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Many Hunters, No Hiders


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I have been wanting to post on this subject for a long time. I kept stopping myself because I didn't want to offend anyone. Now I'm to the point that I don't care if people are offended, maybe it's exactly what they need.

 

We started geo-caching last spring and have grown quite addicted to the game. Living in a rural area there were not many caches in our county. After finding enough so we thought we had a good handle on the gps, we jumped right in and started hiding caches. Thinking that people (around here) considering the purchase ofa GPS for geo-caching would be more likely to do so if there were more hides in our area. We had no idea there were so many cachers around until they started finding our hides. After going through profiles we discovered that there are several people that have found several hundred caches and have not hidden a single one. While we love to hide, we also like to hunt without having to drive 50 miles. Am I wrong to feel that they should be contributing to the geo-caching community by hiding caches of their own? Is this a problem that other cachers are experiencing?

 

So I am looking for ways to either get new cachers in our area or get the cachers already here to get off their behinds and contribute to the cause. As a polite way of encouraging people, I have created a cache-in-a-bag. I have put together a brand new cache and hidden it in one of ours. Whoever takes it has to hide it within our county, that's the only rule. So far no one has taken it. Come on, how much more can I do for them?

 

It's to the point that I am ready to stop hiding all together, which is sad because we do enjoy it. There are 2 specific people (with 0 hides) who have the NERVE ;) to send us messages criticizing our hides. To them I would like to say....keep your lazy butt at home then! I wish there was a way I could keep them from searching for our caches! I would be willing to bet money that neither of those people will take the cache-in-a-bag when they visit, which will infuriate me to no end.

 

So I'm looking for insight on the subject. Am I wasting my time and energy even trying to get these people to fully participate in the game? We have put a lot of money, time and effort in to our caches. Is it wrong to think that others should give back a fraction?

 

Even if I don't get any good feedback on the subject perhaps a few of those people will read this and know exactly who I'm talking to.

 

Cache On! :P

 

The Mrs. of TeamGuisinger

(The Mr. is not responsible for my rants)

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We had a local cacher were I was living a while back that would only and that still only hides micros. To keep him from fill a local open space ares with micros in an area the had place for large caches I hid a very large cache the contained several tupperware caches that were already sotcked with log books etc. Each one of these had a tag with a recomended distance to hide them from the large cache. This was so that we not be to close to on another. They also had to be placed within 24 hours of being taken. Well it worked and now most of the area is micro free. Plus all those other cacher have tomaintin them now ;)

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Mrs. of TeamGuisinger,

 

Take it easy, it's not that bad. Your like me and have the opportunity to make your own caching destination. You have a monopoly on all the good caching spots.

 

If it'll make you feel better look at my caches, the most travelled one was visited 3 times. I live in an area you could call a back hole when it comes to Geocaching. I have a plan to scatter my own caches all through the area and draw people in just for that.

 

I don't know what to tell you about the critical finders, that's their problem. Maybe they just don't like whatever kind of cache they were.

 

In a nutshell, you can't worry about the other cachers, you'll have to do your own hides. And once they build up, other cachers will come.

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It's to the point that I am ready to stop hiding all together, which is sad because we do enjoy it. There are 2 specific people (with 0 hides) who have the NERVE ;) to send us messages criticizing our hides.

while i do agree with you...why owuld these people make you want to stop hiding the caches all together? As long as you have fun doin it.

 

And for those people who criticize your caches don't pay attention to them. As long as you like your caches the way they are. Just have fun!

 

And yes i think those people should put out at least one hide and help teh caching comunity grow larger yet.

 

Like i said have fun caching and don't worry about those people.

 

Archan out

Edited by Archan
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Hello Team Guisinger,

 

As your cache reviewer, I would like to take a moment and thank you for hiding so many interesting geocaches -- multicaches and puzzles, mostly, not just simple park and grabs. I appreciate your efforts to improve the quality of geocaching in your area. Sometimes a simple "thank you" goes a long way to defuse the frustration you are expressing!

 

I don't know the details of who is finding your caches, and who might be complaining about some of them, or whether those complaints have any basis. But I will offer two general observations: First, not everyone should hide lots of caches. If a person has no interest in placing and maintaining a cache, then a cache they hide due to "community pressure" is likely to be an uninspired cache. Second, many people will venture far and wide to visit your area once or twice a year, but they recognize that *hiding* a cache in your area would be beyond their "maintainable distance." I find geocaches in Ohio at least three or four times per year, but I wouldn't dream of hiding one there. So if the finders of your caches are from 50 miles away, cut them some slack. If they live one town over from you, then apply a little friendly pressure. When they log your cache, write a FRIENDLY e-mail saying that you're glad they enjoyed your puzzle cache, and that you like FINDING puzzle caches just as much as hiding them, so you look forward to seeing their next hide and you hope it's a puzzle cache.

 

It is OK to clench your teeth while you are being super-polite in writing that e-mail. ;)

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Well written - and had to laugh at your last thought - sounds like something my wife would say "His rant - not mine!"

 

cool photo snoogans -

 

Keystone - well written also --

 

while I surely do NOT have a paucity of caches around here - man I can't even get all 500 limit in a PQ at 10 miles - I do feel for your frustration. One of the problems around here are micros in large park areas. Seems a waste to me but that is just one of the issues people have in this game, and you are not unique to the problem you voice either.

 

But as was said a couple times, you can't control what other people do so try not to get upset about what they do and don't. Hard to do I know - been there done that - but I try.

 

Something no one noted - there is no rule that says you have to hide caches. But I have to agree - if'n you play you aughta pay too. There were very few caches close to me when I started - I started putting out caches and they came - now I put out harder caches - series and puzzles - but there are more people playing and they started hiding caches too.

 

Don't let others dictate your enjoyment.

 

I do find it interesting that no one has take your give away cache - neat idea. In some of my early caches I gave away a small cache as a FTF prize - just the container though. A free stocked and logged cache! I'll take it! I liked Johnie's idea too.

 

hang in there -

 

cc\

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In some of my early caches I gave away a small cache as a FTF prize - just the container though. A free stocked and logged cache! I'll take it! I liked Johnie's idea too.

 

This is a good way to jumpstart cache hiding, as long as you use small or regular caches. I've heard of people filling the "mother" cache with film canisters and before ya know it, micro spew is thriving in the region.

Edited by briansnat
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Have you tried a cache/get-together event? It could be ignorance or reluctance. Bring the stuff to show how to put one together, meet and greet the others and find out why they don't hide. With the way some folks react to bad coordinates or some types of hides the thin skinned may be a bit timmid to test the waters.

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Hi TeamGuisinger,

 

Pull out your topo maps and look for a good place to find a cache.

 

E-mail one of these people, tell them you had trouble finding thier cache at those coordinates, nor could you find the GC listing for it. Then politely ask them to fix thier cache.

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I don't do it anymore, but waaayyy back in '03 I used to email folks congrats on their 100th find (I still do that part, when I notice) with joking/not joking statement about enough finding, now hide one! This actually worked great. I also left a lot of decon cans with log and stash note in or ocassionally alongside of other caches. An awful lot of those got taken and placed in the mid-west (I live in Florida). Oh well, new hides somewhere.

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Yup, forcing someone to do something they really don't want to is a good way to ensure a poor effort (unless they work for you; the leverage is a bit different.)

The seed cache concept is a good one though, we have several around here. I'll second Brian's recommendation to mix up the sizes. We used to have one here that was always 'stocked' with a few extra ammo cans! (there were a few spare empty ones left near the real cache for the taking.) :P The best thing to do is talk it up at the next event, or even schedule one yourself to meet your local geopals. Maybe pass out a few ready to hide caches as lovely door prizes too?

 

I made the mistake of urging a prolific finder to hide a few once. With a few exceptions, they are all park n grabs-good for pumping your own numbers (which can be fun at times), but not much else. ;)

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I made the mistake of urging a prolific finder to hide a few once. With a few exceptions, they are all park n grabs-good for pumping your own numbers (which can be fun at times), but not much else. :P

Ahhhhhhh you're the blame for that - :P

 

May you be cursed with 10,000 film canisters hidden throughout your front yard :P

 

Oh... j/k by the way! :P;)

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So far I've been a small/ micro hider. But I got a medium size Lock & Lock, and a 2 gallon barrel waiting to be hidden.

 

I don't really appreciate all micros in an area. My area can support larger caches, so I'll be tring to get them out there. I probably won't try the breeder cache idea, if people are going to put caches in my area they need to maintain them, I don't want it to be convenient for them to place one and then it need to be adopted down the road.

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May you be cursed with 10,000 film canisters hidden

Funny you should mention that figure. I'm currently soliciting my local geocaching group to help me obtain, place logs in, and distribute about 10,000 film canisters at THIS event, which is now to be held the night before GeoWoodstock III.

 

You can almost EXPECT at least one (if not 50) to get hidden in his front yard. I'll see to that. :P:P;)

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Come on, how much more can I do for them?
actually one more thing you can do is host an event and buttonhole people about placing. I did that, a lot of folks were intimidated about "permission" - I was able to tell them that one large local land manager was completely opened to caches, and the other required a permit (free - obtainable in about 2 weeks via email). Once folks knew the requirements for getting a cache listed in the local State Forest and Water Management District more caches appeared. (Oddly those rules have reversed - the water management has gone to a "place caches freely" policy and the State Forest wants a permit pulled before a cache is placed).
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...I've heard of people filling the "mother" cache with film canisters and before ya know it, micro spew is thriving in the region.

Micro spew? Should we add that to the cacher's dictionary? ;):P

 

ya I love it!!!

 

ya gotta watch out for that micro spew

 

will get you every time -

 

micros are great - but not in a 4000 acre park.

 

cc\

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Hi TeamGuisinger,

 

Pull out your topo maps and look for a good place to find a cache.

 

E-mail one of these people, tell them you had trouble finding thier cache at those coordinates, nor could you find the GC listing for it. Then politely ask them to fix thier cache.

Wow, what a great idea. :P:P;)

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Second, many people will venture far and wide to visit your area once or twice a year, but they recognize that *hiding* a cache in your area would be beyond their "maintainable distance."

Howdy TeamGuisinger

 

We concur with Keystone, our 'approver' also. Thank you for your hides in your area. We drove over 50 miles to find some of your caches: Young Hero was our very first first-find and appreciate your top notch efforts that allowed us to spend a beautiful day in your neck of the woods. When finding Waterworks we actually discovered a mint condition box turtle shell and its bottom plate. A great momento for us! Unfortunately due to the distance we aren't able to reciprocate with any hides in your area. However you are always welcomed over here should you venture to the Mid-Ohio Valley in the future.

 

Thanks again BT

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We started geo-caching last spring and have grown quite addicted to the game. Living in a rural area there were not many caches in our county. After finding enough so we thought we had a good handle on the gps, we jumped right in and started hiding caches. Thinking that people (around here) considering the purchase ofa GPS for geo-caching would be more likely to do so if there were more hides in our area. We had no idea there were so many cachers around until they started finding our hides. After going through profiles we discovered that there are several people that have found several hundred caches and have not hidden a single one. While we love to hide, we also like to hunt without having to drive 50 miles. Am I wrong to feel that they should be contributing to the geo-caching community by hiding caches of their own? Is this a problem that other cachers are experiencing?

 

You're welcome to feel anyway you like.

It would be nice if everyone would contribute to geocaching in ways I think are most beneficial. But people tend to do things their own way... You have to be care that your own expections of others actions (or inactions) do not upset us. If people get into caching and hide new caches are a way of supporting geocaching (there are many many ways to 'support'), super!! If not, well, what can be done to them?

Requiring people to place caches might back fire and spur the creation of hasty put together and ill maintained caches. Kicking them 'out' would just tick them off, and maybe create some pirates :P .

 

So I am looking for ways to either get new cachers in our area or get the cachers already here to get off their behinds and contribute to the cause. As a polite way of encouraging people, I have created a cache-in-a-bag. I have put together a brand new cache and hidden it in one of ours. Whoever takes it has to hide it within our county, that's the only rule. So far no one has taken it. Come on, how much more can I do for them?

I find it difficult sometimes to understand why some people have the ratios they do (why this hides a lot, why this one finds a lot, why this one seems to roam a seven state area, etc). And even if I did understand, would it be right to apply my thinking to their situation? Don't get me wrong I really like it when people hide new caches (cache hiders rock!), but I also really hate it when people don't keep up the ones they have, or just disappear and are never heard from again.

You might also try organizing a geocaching event. Those things are like a bunch of drug addicts reinfecting each other, builds a lot of snergy. I've donated a few ready to place caches to 'local' events to give away in prize drawings. The drawings are usually run that the first person drawn gets first pick at the prizes, second has second choice etc. So the person has to choose to pick them, but they seem to go pretty early ;) .

 

It's to the point that I am ready to stop hiding all together, which is sad because we do enjoy it. There are 2 specific people (with 0 hides) who have the NERVE :P to send us messages criticizing our hides. To them I would like to say....keep your lazy butt at home then! I wish there was a way I could keep them from searching for our caches!  I would be willing to bet money that neither of those people will take the cache-in-a-bag when they visit, which will infuriate me to no end.

If you like hiding, then keep hiding them.

:P first you say you want people to get out and hide some, now your saying you want people to stay at home! please make up your mind at what you want other people to do! :P:P

 

So I'm looking for insight on the subject. Am I wasting my time and energy even trying to get these people to fully participate in the game? We have put a lot of money, time and effort in to our caches. Is it wrong to think that others should give back a fraction?

In short, Yes. Because there are no (few) requirements to participate, and 'fully' is left open to interperation.

 

Even if I don't get any good feedback on the subject perhaps a few of those people will read this and know exactly who I'm talking to.

Good luck with that, and I hope you feel better after letting off some steam. :P

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We had a local cacher were I was living a while back that would only and that still only hides micros. To keep him from fill a local open space ares with micros in an area the had place for large caches I hid a very large cache the contained several tupperware caches that were already sotcked with log books etc. Each one of these had a tag with a recomended distance to hide them from the large cache. This was so that we not be to close to on another. They also had to be placed within 24 hours of being taken. Well it worked and now most of the area is micro free. Plus all those other cacher have tomaintin them now :unsure:

sure like this idea .... think i will have to try it here in bakersfield

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One thing you don't want to do is invoke the wrath of the micro-hiders by trying to stake out turf. Being a micro hider (me, not S) if I knew someone was doing that, I'd order a gross (an amount that's ironic to micro haters) of micro containers and go berzerk.

 

Really, I just posted that first part to light a fire under folks with good hiding skills. You don't want everyone who caches to go hide. If someone has a good cache idea though, you want them to go make a hide and not sit on their hands.... while I hide those gross micros!

 

- T of TandS

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...I've heard of people filling the "mother" cache with film canisters and before ya know it, micro spew is thriving in the region.

Micro spew? Should we add that to the cacher's dictionary? :unsure::unsure:

I was going to take credit for coining that phrase (I know I was an early user of it during my micro-spew-ranting days last year), but I did a forum search and credit goes to WaldenRun, first usage, Sept. 2004.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...4&hl=micro+spew

 

-Dave R. in Biloxi

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My wife and I have been Caching for about 2 years now but not heavily. We have 48 Finds between us. We do thoroughly enjoy caching when we go.

 

We have thought about placing our first cache but are firm believers that there should be something special and worthwhile about it. We are relatively new to the area, so are not well versed in it's history or unique geographic or historic features. We are researching these though. We have also found that a lot of the caches nearby have already been placed in these sort of areas, making it more difficult to find a good placement of our own.

 

Seeing that we have 48 finds between us, we have made a decision that on the day that we hit 50 we will place a cache. We expect that to happen in about 2 weeks.

 

So you see, it may not be that folks are lazy and don't feel like placing caches, it may simply be that most of the good spots are already taken! :unsure:

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So you see, it may not be that folks are lazy and don't feel like placing caches, it may simply be that most of the good spots are already taken! :unsure:

We had a cacher who used to tell us we had taken all the good hiding spots. Total and complete BS. I call that laziness. Somehow we kept finding new good spots and his always ended up in trash piles. People just need to do some research, get off their lazy buts and put out good hides.

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This Sunday I got the chance to spend a couple of hour’s cacheing. This was the first time in almost a month and a half that I could find the time, and I had to put a lot of other things on hold, to do so. I have one hide to my name and it is lame. The only reason I have this hide is because it was required to log one of my finds. I wasn't going to even look for this one but is was close and I only had time to search for close ones that day. I also really hoped I would get the chance to put some thought and effort into placing my first cache; it ended up being a micro stuck to the sign at my work place. My point is I understand your frustration and I frequently feel quilt because my find to hide ratio is 98/1 but (try as I might) I simply cannot find the time to construct, hide, and especially maintain caches. I would rather put out a lame cache that I thought was good than put out a lame cache that I didn’t have/take the time to try.

 

Although I do not always show it in my logs I sincerely appreciate all the people who take the time and go through all the trouble to hide caches for me to find. I do hope that at some point I will be able to put out some fun and interesting caches as repayment to those who have made it possible for me to participate in this wonderful game. For now the best I can do is search for, and enjoy all the hard work that others have put in for my benefit.

Thanks: RyND!

Edited by rynd
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Notice I said "Most" of the good spots are taken. Not "all." Because of that, and the placement of Caches in the more obvious spots, deeper research is required. We already have a couple of good ideas that dig back into the American and Indian folklore of this very rural area that we live in.

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We had a cacher who used to tell us we had taken all the good hiding spots. Total and complete BS. I call that laziness. Somehow we kept finding new good spots and his always ended up in trash piles.  People just need to do some research, get off their lazy buts and put out good hides.

When I read your post, "Who's in control" was the first thought that crossed my mind.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if that geocacher intentionally picked crummy locations for his caches because he realized that people wouldn't/couldn't resist seeking them.

Edited by Skovar
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I'm changing our profile to include:

 

Some of our hides are micros, but if you have a regular cache you want to hide where we have a micro, just email us and we'll archive the micro. We are all about full-size caches!!! Especially S.

 

- T of TandS

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We had a local cacher were I was living a while back that would only and that still only hides micros. To keep him from fill a local open space ares with micros in an area the had place for large caches I hid a very large cache the contained several tupperware caches that were already sotcked with log books etc. Each one of these had a tag with a recomended distance to hide them from the large cache. This was so that we not be to close to on another. They also had to be placed within 24 hours of being taken. Well it worked and now most of the area is micro free. Plus all those other cacher have tomaintin them now :rolleyes:

You are a godsend. Down with the people hiding 10,000 worthless hides to pump their stats.

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Hello Team Guisinger,

 

As your cache reviewer, I would like to take a moment and thank you for hiding so many interesting geocaches --

EXCELLENT response, I wish my reviewer was so considerate & thoughtful.

 

Thank you for your volunteer efforts, it can't be easy and it must take right much of your personal/family time . . . YOU are appreciated, too!

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We had a cacher who used to tell us we had taken all the good hiding spots. Total and complete BS. I call that laziness. Somehow we kept finding new good spots and his always ended up in trash piles.  People just need to do some research, get off their lazy buts and put out good hides.

When I read your post, "Who's in control" was the first thought that crossed my mind.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if that geocacher intentionally picked crummy locations for his caches because he realized that people wouldn't/couldn't resist seeking them.

If that was his plan it backfired! The hides are so bad no local will find his caches anymore. One went two months before an out of town cacher found his newest cache!

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Fortunately, there are many hiders in my area. One likes to bring a big bag full of containers of all sizes to events, and the other likes to host workshops to encourage people to paint, modify, and construct containers.

 

I also ran into both of these people on my first official day as a Geocacher. They have made a positive impact on my experiences here.

 

Don't be discouraged, and keep doing what you are doing, encouraging other people to hide caches. Don't worry about the people who don't want to hide, just hope for someone new who'll "get it." Also consider introducing your family and friends to the sport, so they can spread the word.

 

As for people with "0 finds" who e-mailed criticisms to you, ignore them like any other frauds on the Internet. If their existence can't be verified, they don't exist. :unsure:

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I just started geocaching and I already want to find a good hiding place. I also want some cool things in my cache, so Im learning about making coins, and I think I might want to make a small pin, like a geo coin, only something someone can pin on their backpack or tote to show off

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Hello Team Guisinger,

 

As your cache reviewer, I would like to take a moment and thank you for hiding so many interesting geocaches --

EXCELLENT response, I wish my reviewer was so considerate & thoughtful.

 

Thank you for your volunteer efforts, it can't be easy and it must take right much of your personal/family time . . . YOU are appreciated, too!

 

I agree, we do not tell our reviewers how appreciative we are. I did send her a note to say thanks after she posted that. Well I always think of her as a she, perhaps it's a he. Regardless, I should have posted it in here for all to see.

 

Have you told your reviewer you love them today????

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Hello Team Guisinger,

 

As your cache reviewer, I would like to take a moment and thank you for hiding so many interesting geocaches --

EXCELLENT response, I wish my reviewer was so considerate & thoughtful.

 

Thank you for your volunteer efforts, it can't be easy and it must take right much of your personal/family time . . . YOU are appreciated, too!

 

I agree, we do not tell our reviewers how appreciative we are. I did send her a note to say thanks after she posted that. Well I always think of her as a she, perhaps it's a he. Regardless, I should have posted it in here for all to see.

 

Have you told your reviewer you love them today????

I *really* appreciated your kind note! In our private forum, the reviewers have a thread where we share thank-you notes. They mean that much to us, probably because they aren't received very often.

 

By the way, I just checked and -- even though maintaining micros is off-topic to this thread -- I write to tell you that I am most assuredly a male cache reviewer. There are some, however, who would like to forcibly alter that fact. :P

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Well, my 11 year old daughter makes all the tough decisions. She invented the "WOW factor" test for virtual caches: "If I go and see it, and I don't say "WOW," then it shouldn't be a virtual cache." She also dislikes cemetery caches because they're "too creepy" and parking lot micros because they're "too lame," so sometimes I need to overrule her.

 

So maybe there's more truth to your assessment of Keystone's feminine intuition than I originally had thought.

 

Hey, I finally got your latest puzzle cache published yesterday... adding yet another quality cache in the area that needs more hiders!

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