Rude Logs

[+Jolly green giants]

Why do people have to use the logs to be rude about The cachers hiding places?

A lot of time and effort is put into the really good ones.

I have discovered so much more about my local area and seen some wonderful things since becoming a cacher. thanks to Dan & Pid, SP, senseiTSKC to name a few. There are more of you I have not mentioned (sorry)

It upsets me to see logs of this kind.

If people have concerns about the locations (I mean serious ones) these should be sent in an email to the owner.

Not slating them on the site for everyone to see.

We have made changes to our cache descripitions in the past due to constructive criticism. That has been welcomed because it has been done nicely.

Love to hear other views on the matter.

Jill.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[+wildlifewriter]

It upsets me to see logs of this kind.

If people have concerns about the locations (I mean serious ones) these should be sent in an email to the owner.

Not slating them on the site for everyone to see.

It depends on the definition of what's "Rude"...

 

Some cache owners seem to think that any adverse comment in the logs is "rude" - and this is foolish.

 

If I wrote in a log entry: "The owner of this cache is dirty, smelly and badly dressed. He is also extremely stupid and hideously ugly." - that's probably rude.

 

But if (as has happened) I wrote: "This cache is poorly prepared and inadequately maintained." - that isn't "rude", it's just a statement of the facts.

 

When we put a cache out for the world to find and comment on, we have to take the comments as we find them. Those who are too sensitive or precious to read constructive or forthright comments in logs, should think seriously about hiding caches in the first place...

 

Just my 2d worth...

 

-Wlw.

[+Nellies Knackers]

If I wrote in a log entry: "The owner of this cache is dirty, smelly and badly dressed. He is also extremely stupid and hideously ugly."

You've done one of mine then!

 

As long as a log is factual I don't see any problem.

[alistair_uk]

Personally I have the belief that we should be polite but honest in the logs. If I did not enjoy a cache I will say so just as I would say otherwise for one I did enjoy. It is my intention not to be nasty, but to give an honest review. When I am preparing to go caching I would rather read an honest review of the cache to decide what to do rather than a list of unfelt TFTC comments.

 

As ever I suggest just thinking how would you feel if the log was left about your caches. I can live with an "I did not like this", "far to hard" or "the description is misleading" (although I would chase up the latter on encase it was) but would be offended by "this cache was placed by an imbecile".

[+Birders]

People often take things too personally. We wrote an honest comment recently about a cache and entered discussion with the owner. No matter what we said, they had obviously taken offence. If anyone finds reason to criticise any of our caches rest assured that we will take steps to sort the problem out and be grateful to the finder..

[+Frodo13]

I agree, the logs are a way of encourage action on the part of a cache hider if its needed. But it should be factual, not personal. I have logged several caches with information about the location or condition of a cache. I have recommended one cache be moved due to the dangerous location. I agree with most above as long as the comments are not personal I think it make the sport stronger.

[+Woody's Wanderers]

I'm in the process of placing my first cache and would welcome constructive comments about where it's placed from more experienced cachers. That said, I hope their comments would be confined to constructive critisism and not just slating!

[+Haggis Hunter]

I hope their comments would be confined to constructive critisism and not just slating!

There is an extremely fine line between the two, it really all depends on a person's perception of what is constructive critisism and slating??

[+Jolly green giants]

Yes factual is good also it has to be worded in a way that does not throw doubt on the person as a cacher, as others do read the logs.

It is meant to be a friendly game. Comments should be put across in a polite manner.

I suppose what I really mean to say that the differance between badly chosen words and well chosen, can alter the tone of what is written.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[+The Blorenges]

If you need to make a critical comment about a cache then I would suggest you could lead in to it gently by saying something positive first...Come on! There's always something nice you can say (isn't there ?) like "we really enjoyed going across the same bog three times so we became very familiar with a particular frog ...." or "it was such fun working out which tree we had a turn left at in the middle of the forest " or "nicely painted camouflage on the cache" or "enjoyed the excellent icecream at the parking spot".....then you can chip in with "but we did eventually find it half a mile from where your coordinates indicated...." or whatever! Mrs B

[+Learned Gerbil]

I think there are circumstances, for example, when a person has set a cache without ever finding one, placed nothing in it, written the location of linked commercial premises on the cache container and given coordinates that are over 100 feet out, where it is difficult to put a positive tone on a log.

[+dino-irl]

Why do people have to use the logs to be rude about The cachers hiding places?

Which log are you talking about? I've just been scanning the most recent logs on your caches and don't see anything rude. Some slightly sarky comments about the trail to the cache but if you think they're rude you need to grow a thicker skin

[+Kitty Hawk]

Honesty, yes.

 

But not at the expense of tact.

 

This is supposed to be a fun game and "honest comments" can be poorly judged comments and just because they are honest it doesn't make them right.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Kitty Hawk

[+wildlifewriter]

I think there are circumstances, for example, when a person has set a cache without ever finding one, placed nothing in it, written the location of linked commercial premises on the cache container and given coordinates that are over 100 feet out, where it is difficult to put a positive tone on a log.

My sentiments exactly.

 

Though I had in mind, the one that's placed 1500Km from the owner's home, in a used ice-cream tub, without permission and in a legally protected wildlife conservation area. Mind you, the co-ords were only 75 metres out, so I suppose one could make some kind of positive remark about that...

 

... or perhaps not.

 

-Wlw.

[+Jolly green giants]

The topic is not due to receiving negative feed back on my own logs. -

I have been tracking other logs and have found that occasionally, their logs have had an unpleasant undertone in the way they were written.

Having done so few on the large scale of things I welcome advice that is given in a constructive way and not distructive manner.

[+Jolly green giants]

Must get to grips with posting logs

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[+third-degree-witch]

Theres a local newbie around here leaving rude logs......eithier a newbie OR a darned sock puppet

Edited October 6, 2005 by third-degree-witch

[+Jolly green giants]

Which log are you talking about? I've just been scanning the most recent logs on your caches and don't see anything rude. Some slightly sarky comments about the trail to the cache but if you think they're rude you need to grow a thicker skin

 

The topic is not due to receiving negative feed back on my own logs. -

I have been tracking other logs and have found that occasionally, their logs have had an unpleasant undertone in the way they were written.

Having done so few on the large scale of things I welcome advice that is given in a constructive way and not distructive manner.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[+Sensei TSKC]

Why do people have to use the logs to be rude about The cachers hiding places?

Which log are you talking about? I've just been scanning the most recent logs on your caches and don't see anything rude. Some slightly sarky comments about the trail to the cache but if you think they're rude you need to grow a thicker skin

Dino-irl

 

It is NOT their cache they are talking about.

 

Trust me I know.

[+Sensei TSKC]

Theres a local newbie around here leaving rude logs......eithier a newbie OR a darned sock puppet

Is this a 'lesley' or something like that?

[+Sensei TSKC]

I think there are circumstances, for example, when a person has set a cache without ever finding one, placed nothing in it, written the location of linked commercial premises on the cache container and given coordinates that are over 100 feet out, where it is difficult to put a positive tone on a log.

Don't forget the cacher who, as you describe above, critices profusely other cachers when they themselves have placed only one or even NONE!

[+Rocky Balboa]

It's a shame when people resort to digs in logs, it's always nice to recieve an email explaining what peoples problems were, and from that point you can adjust your caches pages and make changes. I think it's good to remember sometimes that people put a lot of effort into placing caches for people to find. It's a friendly game and there are very few occasions where a 'rude' log can't be replaced by a friendly email. Remember, it's just a hunt for a lunch box, there are people starving out there...

[+Jolly green giants]

It's a shame when people resort to digs in logs, it's always nice to recieve an email explaining what peoples problems were, and from that point you can adjust your caches pages and make changes. I think it's good to remember sometimes that people put a lot of effort into placing caches for people to find. It's a friendly game and there are very few occasions where a 'rude' log can't be replaced by a friendly email.

 

/\The point I have been aiming at./\ It's all about the way you approach the matter.

Have some consideration for the other cacher. Remember there is a person on the reciving end of your messages and logs.

So lets curb the P.C.T (post cache tension).

Say what you have to say in a polite email. If you can't be polite at the time wait until you can.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[Dave from Glanton]

Like WLW said, "The person who placed this cache is just criminal waste of DNA" is out of order.

 

"This cache is rubbish" may be true, but it's not exactly constructive, especially if the cache in question belongs to a newbie.

 

"This cache is rubbish because...." or "This cache would not be rubbish if...." are better alternatives.

[+Haggis Hunter]

I think there are circumstances, for example, when a person has set a cache without ever finding one, placed nothing in it, written the location of linked commercial premises on the cache container and given coordinates that are over 100 feet out, where it is difficult to put a positive tone on a log.

Don't forget the cacher who, as you describe above, critices profusely other cachers when they themselves have placed only one or even NONE!

I know a cacher exactly like that!!

 

Not saying who though

[+stu_and_sarah]

It's all about the way you approach the matter.

Have some consideration for the other cacher. Remember there is a person on the reciving end of your messages and logs.

So lets curb the P.C.T (post cache tension).

Say what you have to say in a polite email. If you can't be polite at the time wait until you can.

I'd agree with this to some degree, but I like to be able to let cachers who may be intending on finding the cache in the future what to vaguely expect.

 

If they are expecting an idyllic countryside walk and end up crossing a sludge covered field and climbing over a stile with an delectric fence zapping them, then I'd like them to be prewarned, just as I myself would like to have been warned.

 

A polite email to the cache setter is all well and good, but it doesn't help the next person who wants to find the cache.

 

Sarah

[+HazelS]

I had a log deleted once - It was in what I would suggest is a totally pointless cache - near to a certain chain of fast food outlets on a main road. The cache was just a micro hidden in a bush at the back of the store, and I said Ithought it was a bit of a pointless cache, as there was no beauty to look at, nothing interesting in the area etc, and the owner took great offence, and politley asked me not to ever do any of their caches again!!

 

Great!

[+The Knights who say Ni]

It's a shame when people resort to digs in logs, it's always nice to recieve an email explaining what peoples problems were, and from that point you can adjust your caches pages and make changes. I think it's good to remember sometimes that people put a lot of effort into placing caches for people to find. It's a friendly game and there are very few occasions where a 'rude' log can't be replaced by a friendly email.

 

/\The point I have been aiming at./\ It's all about the way you approach the matter.

Have some consideration for the other cacher. Remember there is a person on the reciving end of your messages and logs.

So lets curb the P.C.T (post cache tension).

Say what you have to say in a polite email. If you can't be polite at the time wait until you can.

Indeed. Some sensitivity is always good, and reading previous logs, as it's not just the Cache setter, but previous loggers (esp DNF's or newbies) that need to be considered when logging.

[+dino-irl]

The topic is not due to receiving negative feed back on my own logs. -

I have been tracking other logs and have found that occasionally, their logs have had an unpleasant undertone in the way they were written.

Okay...I was wondering how you could be upset by what those logs had said

[+bargee]

I had a log deleted once - It was in what I would suggest is a totally pointless cache - near to a certain chain of fast food outlets on a main road.  The cache was just a micro hidden in a bush at the back of the store, and I said Ithought it was a bit of a pointless cache, as there was no beauty to look at, nothing interesting in the area etc, and the owner took great offence, and politley asked me not to ever do any of their caches again!!

 

Great!

I remember your log for that one, It got deleted did it?

the only point for that cache was so i could persuade my O/H to buy me breakfast on our way into wales

and for the numbers

 

I always try to be polite and give an entertaining log to read,

but as a bloke i could probably be a little harsh sometimes, though i hope i wouldn't drop to personal insults or completely rubbishing a cache as the owner has done something more than i have which is to set a cache!

 

Iain the bargee

[+ryme-intrinseca]

Your comments have got me thinking: I very rarely put negative things in a log, unless I think there is a real problem with it. In fact, I can only remember having done this once - for this cache. I'd be interested to know whether people think I should have done this, or if I should have emailed the cache owner separately with my concerns, and just put positive things in the log?

 

But then, how bad would I feel if a kid got seriously injured here, and I had said nothing to fellow cachers?

 

EDIT: forgot to mention - afterwards, I read through all the previous logs in detail, and found that actually I wasn't the only one to have mentioned it! Also, I'm not slating this cache - it was still an enjoyable find.

Edited October 7, 2005 by ryme-intrinseca

[+kewfriend]

Having failed to get a response from an email I was forced to post this log:

 

I take exception to the advertising on the box to the 'shop' which is the source of the cache but then I am a purist in this vogue.

 

Just in case anyone thought some real triangulation was going on ( when they reach the cache ) - it isnt. But any two bearings given in the cache series do resolve reasonably close to the afore mentioned shop. My own view is that the advertising potential for this shop has been utterly compromised by the poor setting of the caches and a failure to understand what triangulation is: but then GCSE Maths these days isnt what it was in the old 'O' level days.

 

So if you do pass by underpants, waste some time and do this cache as well.

 

PS its really a 1* diff and a 2* terrain as a reasonable pushchair can do the cache.

 

and

 

I enjoy walking on the common and a different route across is a pleasure. The cache is exactly 210 feet south-west of the given location, which candidly is a LONG way out.....Its an odd location to choose for a cache, particularly as interesting things like the memorial are nearby. In terms of difficulty, its a 1*diff, 2*trek - not quite pushchair friendly except that some of today's pushchairs are almost chelsea tractors themselves.

 

I do hope this cache setter gets to grips with accuracy on any future caches she/he sets.

 

This series of caches is covered in a separate series of posts but the cache setter simply didnt respond to email criticisms. Us SWLondoners knocked them off with gritted teeth!!!

 

 

But hey - its only a hobby -

Edited October 7, 2005 by kewfriend

[The Royles]

I'd be interested to know whether people think

 

As a parent of young children, I think your log is very valid. In this case it is better for this comment to appear on the cache page, rather than as an email to the cache setters.

 

It is also good to see that the cache setters took the comment seriously, and did not get upset and delete the log.

 

I think all concerned should be proud of themselves.

 

edit: added a quote so you know which post I am addressing.

Edited October 7, 2005 by The Royles

[+wildlifewriter]

Your comments have got me thinking: I very rarely put negative things in a log, unless I think there is a real problem with it. In fact, I can only remember having done this once - for this cache. I'd be interested to know whether people think I should have done this,

Certainly you should have done it - and your log had a good outcome, because the owner re-rated the cache.

 

He/she is obviously a sensible owner.

 

I'm afraid that the OP (and several others who contributed to this thread) have missed the point: caches with sensible owners, and caches which have had "a lot of effort put into them" don't usually GET adverse comments on the logs.

 

The ones which attract adverse comment (rude or otherwise) are those which have had no thought put into the planning; are poorly prepared and/or unmaintained; or just plain lame.

 

And they deserve it.

 

-Wlw.

[+Jolly green giants]

If they are expecting an idyllic countryside walk and end up crossing a sludge covered field and climbing over a stile with an delectric fence zapping them, then I'd like them to be prewarned, just as I myself would like to have been warned

 

writing the log ." This cache was not quite what I expected. I got to the stile then promptly sunk in the sludge filled field." is not in my opinon rude or inpolite. Neither "If it was us we may have set this cache somewhere a little less open". That is constructive comments.

 

Hopefully we do not set caches that put us at risk of suffering severe electric shocks.

If it were so you could use words like. " I am concerned that there appears to be an electric fence near the cache area. If intending to do this cache you should be very careful". also email the owner a more detailed description of the problems to enable them to archive it until it can be checked out. then others are warned and the log owner can sort it out.

 

This is about the tone used in the logs. Warnings are ok.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[+Jolly green giants]

Your comments have got me thinking: I very rarely put negative things in a log, unless I think there is a real problem with it. In fact, I can only remember having done this once - for this cache. I'd be interested to know whether people think I should have done this, or if I should have emailed the cache owner separately with my concerns, and just put positive things in the log?

 

No, on that occasion it would have been the right thing to do.

When setting a cache all aspects have to be considered. As many cachers are family groups. It would have been wise to state in the cache description that it was not suitable for children due to the dangerous terrain.

 

It's not about just being positive it's about getting your point across it a constructive and curtious manner

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[+The Knights who say Ni]

When logging, I try to bear these in mind:

 

1. Try to find positive things to balance any negative (as Ryme Intrinsica did in their previous example of a log - a great example BTW!)

 

2. Use smileys! We all put our own slant on the tone of a sentence as we read it, and the written word especially when quickly typed is so often misinterpreted

 

3. Always re-read and be ready to re-phrase. There are always courteous ways to say something, even if you need to bring something negative to their attention. Remember that they are more likely to accept what you say if it is put nicely to them!

 

4. Thank the setter for the Cache. Even if it is not the best you've bagged, they did go to some effort in setting it, however small or large. Follow point 1 and balance that thanks with some constructive criticism (whether they choose to take that on board is up to them).

 

5. Be prepared for others not to agree with you.

 

6. Take a deep breath, and remember it's only a game!

 

7. Lighten the atmosphere and expand what you say with something entertaining about your antics while out finding it. It is very rewarding being a Cache owner and reading about other peoples experiences.

 

Edited to add:

 

8. Read previous logs for the Cache and try not to rub salt in previous wounds! Nothing worse than a gloating Cacher

Edited October 7, 2005 by The Knights who say Ni

[+Alibags]

In cache logs as in the forums. You can be rude and to the point, you can be polite and to the point. If you are polite, people are more likely to entertain your suggestions and take them on board. If you are rude, they are more likely to think "well **** you!" and ignore anything you have to say. I don't think it's rocket science really.

 

I think I can guess which logs the Jolly Green Giants have seen recently which may have prompted this thread. I have my theories about this person, but of course I am far too polite to post them here!

 

It's Friday... and chilllllll!!!

[+dino-irl]

I think I can guess which logs the Jolly Green Giants have seen recently which may have prompted this thread.  I have my theories about this person, but of course I am far too polite to post them here! 

I wish someone would put me out of my misery and point me in the direction of said log

[+The Knights who say Ni]

Hehe, I think I may have found who we're referring to here.

 

Annoying logs, including one where this newbie Cacher pointed out the exact whereabouts of the Cache to several teenage muggles. Wonder if that Cache is still even there?

 

Oh, it will be nice to attempt this persons first hide

 

...and wait, there is another, a rogue logger family too.

 

What's happening folks?... We're mostly a nice bunch of people in the Geocaching community, but a few now spoiling it... Caches being archived... people getting offended

Edited October 7, 2005 by The Knights who say Ni

[+choccymandm]

I think I can guess which logs the Jolly Green Giants have seen recently which may have prompted this thread.  I have my theories about this person, but of course I am far too polite to post them here! 

I wish someone would put me out of my misery and point me in the direction of said log

 

... not sure if it is one particular log? We've seen one of the names listed at the very top of the thread get some stick over a couple of his caches in the past few weeks.

[+t.a.folk]

Your comments have got me thinking: I very rarely put negative things in a log, unless I think there is a real problem with it. In fact, I can only remember having done this once - for this cache.

 

We think they are nice owners of cache . They also amended the cache hint after corresponding with us ,in a friendly manner , about our d.n.f. posting .

 

We did say in our d.n.f. post that we found the terrain of the cache search area to be "taxing" ,but as we are in our fifties what we/I now find taxing may not be for others.

 

Perhaps should all declare our ages when logging .(if I understood the meaning of the smilies I would end with an apropiate one )

[+The Southseakers]

Ah ha! I think I have finally found out who you are talking about.

 

I agree the tone of the log is a bit abrupt, something that is followed up by the "latest news" section on the cacher's profile where they state:

 

"... am yet to really see what the real attraction is. The geocaches I have found have lacked severely ..."

 

You have to wonder whether caching is really for them?

 

Having said that there are some real gems in their logs, I especially enjoyed "... I had a strange look or three from some common looking people, drinking across the road, I dispise ruffians..." (It helps if you read it in a Monty Python voice of your choice ...)

[+The Knights who say Ni]

It helps if you read it in a Monty Python voice of your choice ...)

<spitting tea over monitor>

 

I totally agree... just don't do it in the voice of the Knights who say Ni!

 

But seriously, we can't let some newbie (or even certain not-so-newbies) get us down. Geocaching's a great game, with [mostly] great people involved, so we just need to Chill a bit.

 

Ni!

Edited October 7, 2005 by The Knights who say Ni

[+Jolly green giants]

On the way back to the car we informed some of the other visitors to the location about geocaching and about the treasure hidden close by, including 2 teenagers on bikes who semed very interested.

 

Not the brightest of ideas

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[+The Knights who say Ni]

On the way back to the car we informed some of the other visitors to the location about geocaching and about the treasure hidden close by, including 2 teenagers on bikes who semed very interested.

 

Not the brightest of ideas

 

Just very new to the game, or maybe yanking our chain?

 

I did chuckle reading some of those logs.

 

I didn't chuckle reading the logs of another Caching-family that have resulted in a long-time Cacher and contributor archiving one of his recently

Edited October 7, 2005 by The Knights who say Ni

[+Jolly green giants]

After bieng the one to start the topic I changed the last comment to be a little more polite

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jolly green giants

[+The Knights who say Ni]

After bieng the one to start the topic I changed the last comment to be a little more polite

And very courteous of you too. I've also edited it in my quote above

Edited October 7, 2005 by The Knights who say Ni

[+The Southseakers]

The cacher concerned is obviously quite new and from some of their logs seems to really enjoy some caches.

 

Perhaps a well worded e-mail welcoming them to the sport/hobby/pastime/obsession and explaining that there are as many different kinds of caches as there are cachers, that you are never going to enjoy all caches that you do, reading the logs before you go out will give you an idea of what to expect and tactfully explaining logging etiquette might be a good idea?

 

As this cacher seems particularly picky perhaps pointing them at the G:UK cache ratings page would be a good idea (Probably best not to point them at this thread though )

[+choccymandm]

I didn't chuckle reading the logs of another Caching-family that have resulted in a long-time Cacher and contributor archiving one of his recently

... think he's changed his user name as well