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Washington Delorme Challenge


Moun10Bike

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I would appreciate the ability to complete the current cache which I'm planning on doing be the end of next summer.

Me too! I would really like a chance to finish the challenge that I started.

So, what should happen to the Washington DeLorme Challenge? I have been thinking about the options and have come up with the following:

  1. Leave the Challenge as-is; as mentioned in rule #8, "While the various editions and versions of the DeLorme Atlas do not seem to gave changed much in terms of page boundaries, the image above derived from the information in the cache owner's copy will be considered definitive."
  2. Update the Challenge to use to the newest version of the Atlas.
  3. Archive the existing Challenge and create a new one, since some aspects of the effort will have changed as a result of the changes to the page boundaries.

Any thoughts or opinions on this?

I prefer #2, with a grace period so people that want to, can finish with the old maps. I really don't like #3, while the new maps are a little different, completing the challenge still involves travelling the state. I would hate to see this one archived and a new one placed. It just wouldn't be the same....

I also don't like any time restrictions on when a cache was found or hidden when completing a challenge.

 

As a side note, after seeing this last night I went over to Costco and bought the new atlas ($11.50). My 1988 version was getting a little worn.

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Okay, I think what I will do is get the new Atlas, generate the new pages, and then use the new data for anyone who starts the Challenge after that point. Anyone who started the Challenge prior to the change will continue to use the old data.

That sounds like a great solution, if you can juggle the duality. Two separate WA DeLorme challenges would seem a bit much.

 

Can't resist adding: 10 fewer grids in the new Atlas (89 vs 99) - woo hoo for new players!

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I would leave it as it is. Do not archive it. Some of us are working on it slowly but surely. Of course I guess if a new one started I would probably have the same number of pages ready to go.

 

Any restriction would have to be just on those who actually completed Delorme #1 -- otherwise any time period counts.

 

PS I looks like there are not all the little 28A pages on the new map

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Okay, I think what I will do is get the new Atlas, generate the new pages, and then use the new data for anyone who starts the Challenge after that point. Anyone who started the Challenge prior to the change will continue to use the old data.

Thanks, I think that's the best way. If I would have to start over I'd probably wouldn't do it.

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Okay, I think what I will do is get the new Atlas, generate the new pages, and then use the new data for anyone who starts the Challenge after that point. Anyone who started the Challenge prior to the change will continue to use the old data.

 

I think this is the best idea. Perhaps you can do something like post a note on the cache page and request anyone currently working on the challenge to email you if they want to be on the list for the old grids or the new ones.

Edited by Team Misguided
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Your solution is ideal - old map for current participants. New map for new ones.

 

No need to list a new cache even if the new map has a drastically different number of pages (doesn't look like it does, 90 vs. 99). Just have the slightly different requirements. I would even give the current participants the option of "upgrading" to the new map. After all, whichever number of pages people need, they still have to travel all over the state, A few extra boxes is insignificant next to the mileage and time spent.

 

For the new version, I strongly disagree with those who would disqualify previously found caches. I've seen this rule applied in other states and the reasons given do not stand up (caching sure brings out the control freak in some people). The challenge is identical however many of the pages a person already has completed. It's just that some people will have already completed more of it than others. It isn't a competition or a race except for FTF, and I know from personal experience, how far down the list of factors, the number of already completed pages is. Besides that, it is possible that there will be participant that have found all the caches in at least one page, and therefore unable to complete the challenge.

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Besides that, it is possible that there will be participant that have found all the caches in at least one page, and therefore unable to complete the challenge.

An excellent point! The current page 35 has only one cache in it, so that could lead to problems for the finders of that cache who have not completed the Challenge.

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Quote: "Okay, I think what I will do is get the new Atlas, generate the new pages, and then use the new data for anyone who starts the Challenge after that point. Anyone who started the Challenge prior to the change will continue to use the old data."

 

I have made a rough count and we should have around 70 pages completed. Would you prefer that I wait until the new Challenge starts or send it in now. Makes no difference to me. Thanks Dick W7WT

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I just posted this on the cache page, but I'll repost here for those who are not watching the cache:

 

I've just finished posting the updated page boundaries for the new 2007 edition of the Washington DeLorme Atlas. The map on the page has been changed to reflect the new data, although I've left a link to the old map for reference purposes. I've broken out the available downloads into two sets - the old pre-2007 editions and the new one - and have generated data for the new layout in GPX, MapSource, DeLorme Street Atlas and Google Earth formats. I've dropped the Microsoft Streets & Trips format (at least for now) as it is just too much manual work to generate at this time.

 

I will ask that anybody who starts the Challenge after today use the new data. People who have been using the old data are welcome to continue using it or "upgrade" to the new edition.

 

Please let me know if you see any problems or errors with the new data!

 

Dick, sorry for missing your post from a week ago. You are welcome to use whichever version of the Atlas that you want.

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I've read the guidance, and not quite sure if I understand completely the intent. If a cacher was working on the Delorme Challenge pre-07 edition, and was one of those that "below radar" types :drama:, would they be obligated to use the new grid, or could they continue to use the old one, even though they are not currently listed on the page, implicating they are not playing?

 

Side thought - If a previous finder discounted all their finds proir to their find date of this challenge. Could they get a second find if they completed it again on the new grid pattern?

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I've read the guidance, and not quite sure if I understand completely the intent. If a cacher was working on the Delorme Challenge pre-07 edition, and was one of those that "below radar" types :huh:, would they be obligated to use the new grid, or could they continue to use the old one, even though they are not currently listed on the page, implicating they are not playing?

:(:(:( Oh, I think my sides are gonna split from laughing... :)

 

Side thought - If a previous finder discounted all their finds proir to their find date of this challenge. Could they get a second find if they completed it again on the new grid pattern?

That is an interesting query. But man, traveling all over the state again to get 90 new grids...that would make round 2 tougher than the original version. At least I started the first one with a few under my belt.

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On our trip back from Alaska, I plan on getting some of the Northern pages. I am using the new Atlas and the pages are shifted from the older Atlas. We will be traveling in a small RV. I only see two caches on that page, an Earth Cache on the roadside of Ross Lake and

Rainy Lake Trail. It says I need a Northwest Forest Pass. I assume my Golden Age Passport if not valid for that. Where can I get a Forest Pass and how much are they? Thanks Dick

Edited by W7WT
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On our trip back from Alaska, I plan on getting some of the Northern pages. I am using the new Atlas and the pages are shifted from the older Atlas. We will be traveling in a small RV. I only see two caches on that page, an Earth Cache on the roadside of Ross Lake and

Rainy Lake Trail. It says I need a Northwest Forest Pass. I assume my Golden Age Passport if not valid for that. Where can I get a Forest Pass and how much are they? Thanks Dick

First, note that part of Hwy 20 (Washington Pass area) is closed for the winter, so you can't travel across the Cascades on it. From the wsdot site:

 

The North Cascades Highway is closed for the season. Currently, the highway is closed on the west side of the mountains at milepost 134, several miles east of Diablo and on the east side at milepost 178, 7 miles west of Mazama at the Early Winters Information Center.

 

Rainy Lake is within the closure area. However, my earthcache at Ross Lake should be outside the closure on the west side. One reason I placed that earthcache, besides the nice spot, was because there were almost no caches in that grid.

 

NW Forest Passes are available lots of places - REI stores, ranger stations, some stores and gas stations near hiking areas, and online (they mail them). You can get a day pass for $5 or annual for $30. Northwest Interpretive Assn is one online place to buy the annual pass.

Edited by hydnsek
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Thank you. It will be late June before we would be traveling from the east to the west. Also a big thank you for your earthcache. After traveling from Alaska we may just settle for it. I like to have at least two caches from each page. I will probably try to pick up a day pass in Winthrop. Dick

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On our trip back from Alaska, I plan on getting some of the Northern pages. I am using the new Atlas and the pages are shifted from the older Atlas. We will be traveling in a small RV. I only see two caches on that page, an Earth Cache on the roadside of Ross Lake and

Rainy Lake Trail. It says I need a Northwest Forest Pass. I assume my Golden Age Passport if not valid for that. Where can I get a Forest Pass and how much are they? Thanks Dick

Dick, The Golden Age Passport will work with any national area. Therefore it will work in place of a Northwest Forest Pass. I double checked that with the ranger when I got mine. It will not work with state areas, but it will with any federal area.

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I've read the guidance, and not quite sure if I understand completely the intent. If a cacher was working on the Delorme Challenge pre-07 edition, and was one of those that "below radar" types :huh:, would they be obligated to use the new grid, or could they continue to use the old one, even though they are not currently listed on the page, implicating they are not playing?

:(:(:) Oh, I think my sides are gonna split from laughing... :(

Yea, thought you of all cachers would appreciate that statement.

Side thought - If a previous finder discounted all their finds proir to their find date of this challenge. Could they get a second find if they completed it again on the new grid pattern?

That is an interesting query. But man, traveling all over the state again to get 90 new grids...that would make round 2 tougher than the original version. At least I started the first one with a few under my belt.

Problem is, I've developed this thing for fire towers. If I'm gonna be on the road again, might as well make the most of it, and with different divisions and discounting the previous finds, why not?

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Quote:

Dick, The Golden Age Passport will work with any national area. Therefore it will work in place of a Northwest Forest Pass. I double checked that with the ranger when I got mine. It will not work with state areas, but it will with any federal area.

 

Thanks for the info. Dick

Edited by W7WT
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I've read the guidance, and not quite sure if I understand completely the intent. If a cacher was working on the Delorme Challenge pre-07 edition, and was one of those that "below radar" types :unsure:, would they be obligated to use the new grid, or could they continue to use the old one, even though they are not currently listed on the page, implicating they are not playing?

 

The "intent" is to get everyone shifted over to the new grid so that I don't have to maintain two sets of data, one of which is obsolete, for a single cache. I am strongly encouraging people who have not notified me of their involvement in the Challenge to begin using the new grid. That's just one of the risks of being a "below radar" type! :blink:

 

Side thought - If a previous finder discounted all their finds proir to their find date of this challenge. Could they get a second find if they completed it again on the new grid pattern?

 

Nope! One cache listing, one find in my rule book! :huh:

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I've read the guidance, and not quite sure if I understand completely the intent. If a cacher was working on the Delorme Challenge pre-07 edition, and was one of those that "below radar" types :unsure:, would they be obligated to use the new grid, or could they continue to use the old one, even though they are not currently listed on the page, implicating they are not playing?

 

The "intent" is to get everyone shifted over to the new grid so that I don't have to maintain two sets of data, one of which is obsolete, for a single cache. I am strongly encouraging people who have not notified me of their involvement in the Challenge to begin using the new grid. That's just one of the risks of being a "below radar" type! :blink:

 

Side thought - If a previous finder discounted all their finds proir to their find date of this challenge. Could they get a second find if they completed it again on the new grid pattern?

 

Nope! One cache listing, one find in my rule book! :huh:

 

Seems to me your being mighty nice to a lot of people.

 

You could have just archived the old one and started anew. That would have solved a lot of problems and headaches on your end.

 

I hope people realize just how much time and effort goes into "monitoring" their progress.

 

I know from personal experience that this is not easy and no lack of confrontations from people who want "special treatment" because they feel it is unfair due to their having "restrictions". Sorry, got carried away dredging up the past.

 

Thanks for trying to keep a level playing field for everyone.

 

Logscaler

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Side thought - If a previous finder discounted all their finds proir to their find date of this challenge. Could they get a second find if they completed it again on the new grid pattern?

 

Nope! One cache listing, one find in my rule book! :unsure:

Too bad, didn't know it when I asked the question, but with M10B's assistance, was able to determine that I'm 12 quads away from completing the new grid pattern. Thats after throwing out all finds prior to my Delorme find date. Maybe I should start looking for a high clearance vehicle that gets 40+ MPG.

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Side thought - If a previous finder discounted all their finds proir to their find date of this challenge. Could they get a second find if they completed it again on the new grid pattern?

 

Nope! One cache listing, one find in my rule book! :o

Too bad, didn't know it when I asked the question, but with M10B's assistance, was able to determine that I'm 12 quads away from completing the new grid pattern. Thats after throwing out all finds prior to my Delorme find date. Maybe I should start looking for a high clearance vehicle that gets 40+ MPG.

Can you say Sock Pupp ... Uh, I mean Second User Account? That would really "toss out" any previous finds. :D:P:P

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Okay, I think what I will do is get the new Atlas, generate the new pages, and then use the new data for anyone who starts the Challenge after that point. Anyone who started the Challenge prior to the change will continue to use the old data.

 

Everything people have mentioned seems a lot of extra work for Moun10Bike. To me it seems better to:

 

1) Keep the current challenge so the current one doesn't have to be archived and a new one started. That way 'Moun10Bike' doesn't have to keep track of 2 maps or Archive the old one and start the new one.

 

2) Use the 2008 atlas for everyone. Since there are fewer squares it shouldn't matter that much for those of us (including myself) that have already started the challenge. Why have to archive the old one to create a simiar one? That way there only needs to be one set of waypoints and page border lines. If everyone is using the same map it is easier for moun10Bike to administer the cache.

 

2) Just like it was before select a cutoff date for cache placement, and allow a certain amount of time for new cache placement only if there is no cache in a certain page. The cuttoff date is just as easy to filter out in GSAK as it is to filter out other states.

 

3) Keep using the old finds since there will be some blocks with only one cache. Clearing away caches that people have already done would make some people unable to complete the challenge.

 

4) With new changes due to the new map pages the main idea should be simplicity so it is easier for Mou10Bike to administer.

 

5) Whatever changes are made to the rules, a bunch of us (including myself) are going to finish the challenge no matter what.

 

6) This should be fun for Moun10Bike too, not just us.

 

Russ (PastorDIC)

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On our trip back from Alaska we will come by Jasper and Banff and then enter Washington in the NE corner. With any luck at all we should be able to complete all the pages except for the Trinity Mine area. Last I checked, no one has posted any finds there since last fall. I will keep an eye on it. Dick, W7WT

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Well, Blooming Idiot and I are about to leave on a trip to the NE corner of the state (WA) to see about completing the Challenge (another challenge is getting BI to log all the caches so she can qualifiy, but that's for a different thread...). We don't have any idea what the crowds will be like over the holiday weekend, but we're ready (I think/hope?) for anything. So, 11 pages (and four counties for that challenge), 35 caches (the Tiger series sounds like fun), a number of waterfalls and one cave are on the list. About right for a 4 day weekend.

 

I just hope the weather isn't too hot - last time we went thru the Okanogan area (on a bike ride) the common phrase was "ITH" (it's too hot) which became "ITBH" (it's too bloody hot) when the temp was 119 at 6:30pm. But the van had AC so we should survive...

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We will be leaving Monday for a geocaching trip to Cashmere, Omak, Winthrop and then back home on Thursday. Weather report looks cooler for the Omak area then. With your sense of humor, I am sure you will find something funny about the hot weather and snakes. Dick, W7WT

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hate to bump this guy, but it's relevant, so I figured it would be best suited for this current thread. I'm a mac user and was wondering if there are any options out there for me to track my progress easily? Everyone I talk to about this challenge mentions GSAK, which I don't have access to obviously. So yeah, any ideas? I use routebuddy and google earth currently for any sort of mapping duties

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hate to bump this guy, but it's relevant, so I figured it would be best suited for this current thread. I'm a mac user and was wondering if there are any options out there for me to track my progress easily? Everyone I talk to about this challenge mentions GSAK, which I don't have access to obviously. So yeah, any ideas? I use routebuddy and google earth currently for any sort of mapping duties

 

Well you could make a bookmark on GC.com listing the caches in the various squares. Generate a PQ from this bookmark and ship it off the Moun10Bike and he will make a nice map for you showing your progress. He'll even put a link on the cache page for you.

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Okay, that makes sense. Is there somewhere online where I can find out if a particular cache is in a certain square or should i pick up an actual map and go that route? I have some that are going to be pretty close out towards the coast and I'm heading to walla walla in a couple weeks for the cache machine and I'd like to make sure I grab the right ones since I don't plan to be out that way any time soon

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I'm a mac user and was wondering if there are any options out there for me to track my progress easily?

Any reason you don't have Boot Camp, Parallels, Virtual PC, or one of the other Windows-on-a-Mac solutions so you can handle these one-off Windows-only apps? I appreciate the Mac perference, but all my Mac friends wind up with an app or two they need Windows for and seem to make it work.

 

Advanced caching like DeLorme is much easier with GSAK...

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Okay, that makes sense. Is there somewhere online where I can find out if a particular cache is in a certain square or should i pick up an actual map and go that route? I have some that are going to be pretty close out towards the coast and I'm heading to walla walla in a couple weeks for the cache machine and I'd like to make sure I grab the right ones since I don't plan to be out that way any time soon

 

That's a rough one. I don't know much about Mac software and I have not heard of any web based map programs the show the squares. Your probably going to be stuck getting the paper map and see where things fall. Ever think about coming over to the dark side :anibad: ?

Edited by jholly
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I'm looking into my options for running windows on my mac, but I'm still running an older PPC machine which makes it rough, speed wise. My girlfriend has a pretty fresh intel based machine and I'll see what it'll take to throw a copy of windows on that thing. Thanks for the help. In the meantime, I'll just find a map and do it the ole fashioned way :laughing:

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I'm looking into my options for running windows on my mac, but I'm still running an older PPC machine which makes it rough, speed wise. My girlfriend has a pretty fresh intel based machine and I'll see what it'll take to throw a copy of windows on that thing. Thanks for the help. In the meantime, I'll just find a map and do it the ole fashioned way :laughing:

My primary computer is an Intel-based Mac, but I admit to having a PC laptop with GSAK. :laughing: That said, I agree with TeamIDFC's advice - there are good Windows-on-a-Mac solutions that should enable you to use GSAK. In fact, I've partitioned my new external Mac terrabyte drive for a Windows startup, I just haven't installed it yet.

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I'm looking into my options for running windows on my mac, but I'm still running an older PPC machine which makes it rough, speed wise. My girlfriend has a pretty fresh intel based machine and I'll see what it'll take to throw a copy of windows on that thing. Thanks for the help. In the meantime, I'll just find a map and do it the ole fashioned way :laughing:

Jim and I both have finished the Delorme and Washington County Challenges. No. one get yourself a Eighth Edition Washington Delorme Atlas & Gazetteer.Also consider doing the Washington

State County Challenge. Go to their web sites and read carefully the requirements. Pick out your route to Walla Walla. Mark your route going and your route coming back and see what pages you will be going through. Try to get at least one cache meeting the requirement in each page and county. Do the same for every trip you make. Color in the squares on the back of your Delorme Atlas. You probably already have quite a few finished. Don't try to do it without the Delorme Atlas. It is an enjoyable adventure. Good Luck Dick

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I'm looking into my options for running windows on my mac, but I'm still running an older PPC machine which makes it rough, speed wise. My girlfriend has a pretty fresh intel based machine and I'll see what it'll take to throw a copy of windows on that thing. Thanks for the help. In the meantime, I'll just find a map and do it the ole fashioned way :laughing:

Jim and I both have finished the Delorme and Washington County Challenges. No. one get yourself a Eighth Edition Washington Delorme Atlas & Gazetteer.Also consider doing the Washington

State County Challenge. Go to their web sites and read carefully the requirements. Pick out your route to Walla Walla. Mark your route going and your route coming back and see what pages you will be going through. Try to get at least one cache meeting the requirement in each page and county. Do the same for every trip you make. Color in the squares on the back of your Delorme Atlas. You probably already have quite a few finished. Don't try to do it without the Delorme Atlas. It is an enjoyable adventure. Good Luck Dick

 

Adding to what Dick has said, if you run a Cache Along a Route with only small, regular and large your good to go on the county challenge. The only time I used a micro was when I already had a small or regular for the county but needed something for the Delorme. I don't recall that was the case in Washington, but was the case in Oregon. If you chose your caches that qualify for the county you will be fine.

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Sounds good. I'll grab the atlas this week sometime and get into it, can't wait. I'm aware of the county challenge as well and will dig into that one as well on my way out there. Thanks for the help everyone!

Hydnsek, being my mac is PPC, it's not as easy booting windows. My girlfriends macbook is intel though and I'll be talking to her tonight as soon as she's home from work, heh. Though I might just look into finding a friend with a laptop sitting in the closet and borrowing it from them :laughing:

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Uuuh, PN? Did I miss something? Anyhow, I grabbed my DeLorme map a few months ago and just plotted all of the WA History caches out and had a blast doing it, pinpointing where the caches are at was a blast as long as I had a pot of coffee going. I also have been working on plotting out all of the caches on my Bucket List bookmark as well as adding notes on my bookmark lists that show where on the map page the cache is at like 27 A10 or 33 C6. If for some reason a cache gets archived I just pull it out and erase it. Anyhow, just my $.02.

Edited by CACHE KRAWLER
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I'm heading to walla walla in a couple weeks for the cache machine and I'd like to make sure I grab the right ones since I don't plan to be out that way any time soon

 

Same here. It's probably obvious that all the Walla Walla cache machine caches will be on page 95. I plan to hit Fort Simcoe (page 90) on the way there, hop up to Dayton (page 96) on Friday evening if I'm in the area early enough, and might hit the Columbia River caches on the way home to Tacoma on Sunday (pages 100-103a and 103b).

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Uuuh, PN? Did I miss something? Anyhow, I grabbed my DeLorme map a few months ago and just plotted all of the WA History caches out and had a blast doing it, pinpointing where the caches are at was a blast as long as I had a pot of coffee going. I also have been working on plotting out all of the caches on my Bucket List bookmark as well as adding notes on my bookmark lists that show where on the map page the cache is at like 27 A10 or 33 C6. If for some reason a cache gets archived I just pull it out and erase it. Anyhow, just my $.02.

PN is shorthand for the Delorme GPS.

 

The model numbers are the PN-20, PN-40 and the new PN-60

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Barnabirdy(s)

Same here. It's probably obvious that all the Walla Walla cache machine caches will be on page 95. I plan to hit Fort Simcoe (page 90) on the way there, hop up to Dayton (page 96) on Friday evening if I'm in the area early enough

 

For anyone going to Dayton to grab page 96 we recommend Lewis & Clark camp GCNBX8. Only a couple of miles from town and one of our most memorable finds.

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Barnabirdy(s)

Same here. It's probably obvious that all the Walla Walla cache machine caches will be on page 95. I plan to hit Fort Simcoe (page 90) on the way there, hop up to Dayton (page 96) on Friday evening if I'm in the area early enough

 

For anyone going to Dayton to grab page 96 we recommend Lewis & Clark camp GCNBX8. Only a couple of miles from town and one of our most memorable finds.

Total agreement - very cool spot. :blink: It's on the Northwest Classics bookmark list.

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Barnabirdy(s)

Same here. It's probably obvious that all the Walla Walla cache machine caches will be on page 95. I plan to hit Fort Simcoe (page 90) on the way there, hop up to Dayton (page 96) on Friday evening if I'm in the area early enough

 

For anyone going to Dayton to grab page 96 we recommend Lewis & Clark camp GCNBX8. Only a couple of miles from town and one of our most memorable finds.

 

I just added that one to my list for the CM run. I neglected to pick up that page when we were on our way back from the cache machine last year. I was just going to pick up a couple in Dayton, but now I'm routing out to Lewis&Clark. We're taking the LONG way to Walla Walla so that I can hit the Original Stash and then pick up the pages all along the Columbia.

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