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I Hate Rules As Much As The Next Guy, But...


sept1c_tank
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There should be some qualification process for hiding your first cache. Let’s say, you have to find 10 (arbitrary number) caches, or pass a test or something before you place your first one. :P

 

This might help to ensure that you at least know how to use a GPSr. (example) ;)

 

There are at least two new caches on my nearest list that are placed by newly joined cachers; in both cases the newbies have listed no finds. I just don’t understand the logic; I do appreciate the energy and enthusiasm. :ph34r::blink:

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I raised this issue some time ago and got berated for bringing up an issue like this. Several responders pointed out that a number of hides are by sock puppets. All that kind of thing aside, I agree with Sept1cTank on this one. This hider has been a member for almost a year and to date has one hide and that only recently. What was this person doing for a year? It was, obviously, not learning how to use the GPSr. For a hide to be 150 feet off, something must be very wrong or the user has no clue on how to use the unit. I would go even higher on the lower limit. I think it should be at least 25, but it ain't a gonna happen.

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For a hide to be 150 feet off, something must be very wrong or the user has no clue on how to use the unit.

 

Unfortunatley, some hiders use intentionally BAD coords. Rounding the 3rd digit to 0, or dropping it all together, etc. Some hiders are known for their Always BAD coords.

Some of those hiders keep hiding and hiding and hiding. My state will soon have 1000

of these "gems" hidden, and probably ALL of them are NOT at the listed coords.

 

"sneaky" they may call it, or whatever - but in the end- its just poor/sloppy use of the technology.

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Relative to other threads I've seen... there are some cachers that don't log their finds. Your hides however are (by default) always listed. Theoretically then your cacher in question could have a hundred unlogged finds before they did their first hide.

 

Food for thought, anyway.

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There's a new one in our state placed by a user whose profile indicates they have found no caches and only joined the site 2 days ago. I don't know what the answer is, but I tend to agree with sept1ctank.

 

Mrs. Car54

 

Edited to say - just noticed our new avatar; Mr. Car54 has been up to something!

Edited by Car54
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There should be some qualification process for hiding your first cache.  Let’s say, you have to find 10 (arbitrary number) caches, or pass a test or something before you place your first one.  :P

 

This might help to ensure that you at least know how to use a GPSr.  (example)   :blink:

 

There are at least two new caches on my nearest list that are placed by newly joined cachers; in both cases the newbies have listed no finds.  I just don’t understand the logic; I do appreciate the energy and enthusiasm.  ;)  :P

Whiner.

 

(But notice I changed my avatar to the one you like just to balance out your blood pressure skyrocketing when I say that.)

 

I'm actually disillusioned enough with the game that I don't even appreciate the energy and enthusiasm any more.

 

People used to say it just wasn't possible to require a certain number of finds before 'allowing' a person to hide a cache. In the beginning, it was due to the sheer lack of cache to be found, but now there is no shortage of cache to find to get some experience before you place your own.

 

While I don't think there should be rules about how wonderful you need to be before you place a new cache, it would be NICE if there were enough peer pressure or community pressure that n00b's actually felt like they should do a little caching before they could dump their 1st through 15th free-from-WalMart film cannister in the local parks.

 

As for the crappy coordinates - there are a lot of them out there... most of belonging to people who ARE new to the game.

 

I left this log on a new cache from a new cacher some time ago:

 

:ph34r:  July 3, 2004 by CurmudgeonlyGal (xxxx found)

N 47° 20.302 W 122° 01.259

Hey, only 300 feet off on your first cache. That's not too bad!

New coords at cache location: n47 20.302 w122 01.259

 

I gave up trying to find newly placed cache (by almost everyone) shortly thereafter.

 

Now I just come along at a later date and make note of the suck-factor (o.k. it has to be REALLY bad for that to happen... but sometimes it does.) Hurting all those new little cacher feelings as I go. :D

 

No more rules!

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Most of our crappy coordinates locally are by people who should know better. It's like a badge of honor or maybe they want to get all those phone calls that ask "where is your cache" and feel important. Most of our crappy hides are by people who should know better. Crap containers, in crap locations, hidden to see what kind of crap they can get peole to hunt I guess. I defend their right to place crap because new and good ideas do come out of it.

 

I'm still not going to jump on this bandwagon. I thank my lucky stars we still get new blood into my stomping grounds. The best hides we have anymore are by the newbies. If a good cache is 300' off at least they are happy to correct the mistake instead of implying that you are too stupid to have found it because if it took three trips you just are not a cacher.

 

Besides, who's going to come up with the test? The old timers who should know better but don't do better, or the newbies who don't know better but are willing to learn?

Edited by Renegade Knight
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There are at least two new caches on my nearest list that are placed by newly joined cachers; in both cases the newbies have listed no finds. I just don’t understand the logic; I do appreciate the energy and enthusiasm.

Here's the logic of the situation: You are free to seek the caches or ignore them. Maybe the caches are good, maybe not; as with any cache placed by anyone, there is no guarantee of quality. Caveat emptor.

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I recall a similar thread on this topic, and there were rants of "no rules" as well as "enforce this in software" etc.

 

After giving it some thought, my position hasn't changed. No additional rules, and don't enforce this with software. :ph34r:

 

I think the peer/community pressure idea works the best. There have been interesting incidents based on bad coordinates in my area in the past year, but with nudges both subtle and not-so-subtle, hiders got the clue and learned to obtain more accurate coordinates, or adjusted the coordinates based on feedback from finders.

 

Same applies for the style and location of the hides. We have hiders who have set high standards as examples, and many have followed. Action is more effective than rules in this case.

 

Some of the old caches have the coordinates rounded off to the nearest 5 or 0 on the thousandth digit in the minutes, but I believe this was due to the lack of precision on some of the GPSr's back then. It's possible that a newbie is using old equipment and doing the same, in which case he or she should welcome feedbacks from cachers with experience and more precise equipment.

 

As for the coordinates being deliberately off, isn't that the same as lying? I'd think that the volunteer approvers would frown upon such acts, if they found out. :blink: If the hider wants the finders to brute-force the cache, then it should be relisted as a mystery/puzzle with an instruction to do so.

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As for the coordinates being deliberately off, isn't that the same as lying? I'd think that the volunteer approvers would frown upon such acts, if they found out

 

Agreed, it is lying. You'd think, wouldn't you? Nope, never seen any scrutiny of the hider. Reading most any of the logs on most any of these hides will show alot of people posting coords where they found the cache at. It cant be a "secret" to anyone....0

 

Its almost a running joke amongst cachers..... "If you are hunting one of these, be prepared to look everywhere BUT the coords..." etc.

 

Sad, but true and chronic

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I like the test idea. I devised one a year or two ago:

 

1. It's OK to place food in caches if:

a ) It's well wrapped

b ) it can withstand extremes of temperatures

C ) it tastes good

d ) All of the above

e ) None of the above

 

2.If you are placing a cache on private property

make sure you:

a ) do it late at night so nobody sees you

b ) camoflage it well so the property owner won't find it by accident

c ) ask permission

 

3. An admin has failed to approve your cache as posted, so you:

a ) post a note in the forums ranting about how unfair the approvers are.

b ) call Jeremy at home and discuss it with him.

c ) Try to work with the approver to determine a way to make it acceptable.

 

4. When choosing a cache container:

a ) make sure its cheap in case its stolen

b ) make sure its easy to open

c ) make sure it's solid, watertight and an appropriate size.

 

5. The best places to hide caches are:

a ) in garbage strewn lots under a sheet of

rotten plywood

b ) cool spots like railroad tracks, bridges or

military installations

c ) in an area that others may find

interesting

 

6. When choosing trade items for your cache:

a ) always use broken toys from the bottom of

your kids toy chest since its all about the hunt anyway.

b ) dump discards from your junk drawer in the

into the cache

c ) thoughtfully chose items that might be of interest to adults and children

 

7. When using old food containers as cache containers always:

a ) wipe the inside clean with your t-shirt

b ) shake out the crumbs

c ) run it through several diswhasher cycles and soak it in bleach, Oxy Clean or baking soda for a few days.

 

8.After placing your cache you should:

a ) leave it be, it will take care of itself

b ) visit it every few years

c ) Perform regular maintenance and respond promptly if someone reports a problem.

 

9. If a visitor reports a problem with your cache:

a ) post a note asking that the next visitor fix it.

b ) let it go. Some people actually like caches with soaked log books and 2 inches of slimy water inside.

c ) Visit the site at the next possible opportunity to check on the cache

 

10. If your state park implements rules regarding cache placement, you should:

a ) Ignore them. Rules are for fools.

b ) place a multi with the first leg outside the park

c ) Follow the rules

 

11. If your 1 difficulty cache has several consectuive "not founds" you should:

a ) Ignore it. They were probably newbies

b ) Ask someone who found it before to check on it for you.

c ) Promptly check for yourself to see if its still there.

 

12. If you choose not to replace your missing cache:

a ) Leave it active so others can still enjoy the hunt

b ) Disable it and leave it that way for at least 2 years.

c ) Archive the cache

 

13. If your local park bans geocaching:

a ) screw 'em and place your cache anyway

b ) try to discuss the benefits of geocaching with the park manager

 

14. When placing a cache deep in the forest:

a ) use a micro and hide it so well, people have to turn over every rock and log to find it.

b ) hide it well enough so it won't be accidently discovered, but so a geocacher can find it.

 

15. When placing a geocache in a popular city park:

a ) use a big ammo box, stuffed full of goodies

b ) use a PVC pipe, or mortar shell

c ) use a small cache container, or micro and hide it carefully.

 

16. When placing a cache in an environmentally sensitive area you should:

a ) walk on your tip-toes

b ) forget about it and look elsewhere

 

17. If you notice social paths and trampled plants around your cache you should:

a ) leave it. It will make it easier for others to find it.

b ) post a note on your cache page asking people to be careful.

c ) move the cache to an area with a more durable surface.

 

18. If you find a denned bear in the cave where you placed your cache you should:

a ) hide there with a camera and take pictures of the look on people's faces when they see the bear.

b ) grab a stick and drive the bear out of your cave.

c ) disable the cache until the bear has left the den for the season.

 

19. Your encrypted clue should contain:

a) Important information about parking, trespassing issues and special equipment that might be required.

b ) Several paragraphs, describing in detail which trails to take to get to the cache.

c ) Information that will help narrow down the search area if the finder is having problems.

 

20. When placing caches on vacation:

a ) Make sure its placed in an interesting spot

b ) Ask local Geocachers if they mind

c ) just don't do it.

 

Of course this is tongue in cheek and not meant to be taken seriously.

Fo co

Edited by briansnat
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After finding our first 2 caches, my then 10 year old son was busily planning out his first hides. Personally, I didn't want to look like a fool, so I scoured the site and the forums for tips.

 

I saw the suggestions to get a dozen or so under your belt before placing one and I took it to heart (and glad we did).

 

I think I fall into the no new rules camp on this one...

 

However, why not add some of that peer pressure into the "Hide a cache" section of the site?

 

Part of the issue is that a brand new cachers don't receive any peer pressure because they don't know who the peers are.

 

And yes, I know that not all newbies will even read the ideas behind the hide a cache page, but maybe if the community feels it's a worthy goal to get a feel for caching before placing your own, TPTB could call attention to the idea without adding a requirement.

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1. It's OK to place food in caches if:

a ) It's well wrapped

b ) it can withstand extremes of temperatures

C ) it tastes good

d ) All of the above

e ) None of the above

 

B

 

2.If you are placing a cache on private property

make sure you:

a ) do it late at night so nobody sees you

b ) camoflage it well so the property owner won't find it by accident

c ) ask permission

 

A

 

3. An admin has failed to approve your cache as posted, so you:

a ) post a note in the forums ranting about how unfair the approvers are.

b ) call Jeremy at home and discuss it with him.

c ) Try to work with the approver to determine a way to make it acceptable.

 

B

 

4. When choosing a cache container:

a ) make sure its cheap in case its stolen

b ) make sure its easy to open

c ) make sure it's solid, watertight and an appropriate size.

 

A

 

5. The best places to hide caches are:

a ) in garbage strewn lots under a sheet of

rotten plywood

b ) cool spots like railroad tracks, bridges or

military installations

c ) in an area that others may find

interesting

 

A

 

6. When choosing trade items for your cache:

a ) always use broken toys from the bottom of

your kids toy chest since its all about the hunt anyway.

b ) dump discards from your junk drawer in the

into the cache

c ) thoughtfully chose items that might be of interest to adults and children

 

A

 

7. When using old food containers as cache containers always:

a ) wipe the inside clean with your t-shirt

b ) shake out the crumbs

c ) run it through several diswhasher cycles and soak it in bleach, Oxy Clean or baking soda for a few days.

 

B

 

8.After placing your cache you should:

a ) leave it be, it will take care of itself

b ) visit it every few years

c ) Perform regular maintenance and respond promptly if someone reports a problem.

 

B

 

9. If a visitor reports a problem with your cache:

a ) post a note asking that the next visitor fix it.

b ) let it go. Some people actually like caches with soaked log books and 2 inches of slimy water inside.

c ) Visit the site at the next possible opportunity to check on the cache

 

B

 

10. If your state park implements rules regarding cache placement, you should:

a ) Ignore them. Rules are for fools.

b ) place a multi with the first leg outside the park

c ) Follow the rules

 

A

 

11. If your 1 difficulty cache has several consectuive "not founds" you should:

a ) Ignore it. They were probably newbies

b ) Ask someone who found it before to check on it for you.

c ) Promptly check for yourself to see if its still there.

 

A

 

12. If you choose not to replace your missing cache:

a ) Leave it active so others can still enjoy the hunt

b ) Disable it and leave it that way for at least 2 years.

c ) Archive the cache

 

A

 

13. If your local park bans geocaching:

a ) screw 'em and place your cache anyway

b ) try to discuss the benefits of geocaching with the park manager

 

A

 

14. When placing a cache deep in the forest:

a ) use a micro and hide it so well, people have to turn over every rock and log to find it.

b ) hide it well enough so it won't be accidently discovered, but so a geocacher can find it.

 

A

 

15. When placing a geocache in a popular city park:

a ) use a big ammo box, stuffed full of goodies

b ) use a PVC pipe, or mortar shell

c ) use a small cache container, or micro and hide it carefully.

 

B

 

16. When placing a cache in an environmentally sensitive area you should:

a ) walk on your tip-toes

b ) forget about it and look elsewhere

 

A

 

17. If you notice social paths and trampled plants around your cache you should:

a ) leave it. It will make it easier for others to find it.

b ) post a note on your cache page asking people to be careful.

c ) move the cache to an area with a more durable surface.

 

A

 

18. If you find a denned bear in the cave where you placed your cache you should:

a ) hide there with a camera and take pictures of the look on people's faces when they see the bear.

b ) grab a stick and drive the bear out of your cave.

c ) disable the cache until the bear has left the den for the season.

 

A

 

19. Your encrypted clue should contain:

a) Important information about parking, trespassing issues and special equipment that might be required.

b ) Several paragraphs, describing in detail which trails to take to get to the cache.

c ) Information that will help narrow down the search area if the finder is having problems.

 

C

 

20. When placing caches on vacation:

a ) Make sure its placed in an interesting spot

b ) Ask local Geocachers if they mind

c ) just don't do it.

 

C

 

Well did I pass [:blink:]

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Im not bragging but im 15 years old and just joined, and i have only found 1 cache because i have a broke leg. So i thought it would be a good idea to get

my dad to help me place some caches, and we did and it was only about the third or fourth time i used my GPSr and i did my coords without a single problem, but i see where yall are coming from. It would probably save a lot of trouble. :blink:

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Uh oh. Bring up one of the dolphin's sore points...

I do hate to see a plethora of rules. And we all know that the staff hee is volunteer, and does the best job (and a great job they do). But...

Cacher A. Active from July through August of this year. Found 6 caches. Hid three. Very nice park. Last caches here were archived due to muggle activity. Caches are Chinese Food containers. One was hidden under a 20# rock. It is completely smashed. Another is reported to be in the same condition. Should be removed and archived.

Cacher B. Still active, Found 69 caches, some recently. Hid 4. One not found (disabled) since December 2004. Should be archived.

Cacher C. Active from September 2004 to March 2005. Found 7. Hid 5. Two disabled. I did not care for either that I found, and DNFed the third. Log on ne is completely full, and damp.

Cacher D. Still active. Coordinates seem to be deliberately off. (What purpose does this serve?) Log mentioning the 'needle-in-the-haystack' hides with coordinates off was deleted. I realize that there are differences between GPS reading, and they depend on satellite conditions, and tree cover. But 200' off, in a pile of concrete slabs, is not fun. Won't be doing any more of those.

Cacher E. Some great hides. Some terrible ones. (IMHO). Some may enjoy looking for the bison tube in the prickly evergreen in a small public park (with some cachers questioned by the police). Not my cup of tea, thanks.

So, the dophin gets grumpy sometimes...

Perhaps the question being asked is how to police these problems. And, the answer is that it cannot be done by a volunteer staff of this sort. And, so, the film canister tossed over the shoulder is still out there, maybe. And the smashed Chinese food container.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

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I agree you should have to be able to use your GPS before you can hide a cache. I had over 100 finds before I "hid" my first cache. I even got and averaged several readings before listing it, and you can see the thing from the street it is huge. I have been doing recon work for six micros I want to place and each of those spots have been visited six time on different days just so I got the cooridinates right. I got that idea from another thread in one of these forums. I don't know how a cooridinate can be more than a few feet off if the hider did a proper job. I liked that guys profile 1 hide no finds makes you wounder. I choose not to go after firsts just to make sure its there. Maybee we could make it so they have to read and post in a few threads pertaining to hiding a cache before they are allowed to hide a cache. Who knows a little interactive tutorial? I know I would not have minded doing that before my first hide.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...36-c5be1e14becc

My first cache, look at the pics.

yes I did seven readings and averaged them for that one.

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Some of my favorite quotes. Momma says, life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are gonna get. It happens - the good, the bad and the ugly. Everyone is guilty of at least one of these. I do not see that mandating certain requirements would improve anything other than taking the fun out of the game. A thought to consider - there are charter members, premium members and members. You could have a premium hider title, to get the title you would have to meet all the aforementioned requirements in the prior posts and charge $40 a year to have and hold the title.

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No news rules please - when I went hunting these two hides I knew the profile said ZERO finds

 

note on cache page this cache was briefly listed, then pulled. Not for lousy coords, I expect the reviewer remembered that the land manager had just initiated a permit system. Not really adding anything to the discussion, just venting. I had a lot of time in finding the first cache they published, the one with coords just a bit over 200 feet off. The 200 feet was the difference between being on the old causeway through the swamp and being in the swamp. But, I like swamp, and I got to like that one a lot.

Edited by Isonzo Karst
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This has been discussed many times. It dosen't matter how many caches you have found. It's not rocket science to hide a cache, just a little effort and common sense. This game grew to what it is today from people with little or no finds hiding a cache. Now I refuse to believe that people are getting more stupid as we go along.

 

There are people out there with over a thousand finds that still can't hide a decent cache. By your suggestions if we require people to find a certain number of caches before they hide one, it will give us better caches. Let me ask you this. One you prefer someone with a creative mind that has never hid a cache, or would you like to require that they model their caches after the last 20 lame caches they found? If we require them to find caches to begin with, how do we know they didn't find a bunch of lame caches and therefore think that's the norm?

 

So the next rule we need is to make sure they don't hunt lame caches and therefore mislead. Darn! Now we need a rule to decide what's a lame cache.

 

Go play people. If a cacher has a habit of hiding lame caches the community will soon figure it out and stop hunting them, or better yet, start helping the cacher make better decisions rather than complaining.

 

El Diablo

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Lame is in the eye of the beholder, what you find lame might be fun for others, as for coords, it depends on the area, sometimes if they get you within a 100' your doing pretty well, depending on the area and the cover the next cacher might not even be able to get a signal , some of the lamest caches I have found were hidden by folks with lotso finds

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Since the person is new perhaps they don't have the proper map datum entered into their unit? It may be that a gentle and helpful suggestion to give that a check could solve the problem.

 

I haven't placed a cache yet but will be absolutely certain the coordinates are right when I do!

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I like the test idea. I devised one a year or two ago:

 

9. If a visitor reports a problem with your cache:

a ) post a note asking that the next visitor fix it.

b ) let it go. Some people actually like caches with soaked log books and 2 inches of slimy water inside.

c ) Visit the site at the next possible opportunity to check on the cache

D - Delete the log since this criticism is an unfair attack on you. :)

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aw jeeeze, cut the dude some slack.  :)

 

Maybe instead of whining about the users lack of mad skills, offer to help teach how to do get good numbers. Maybe it was just a typo.

 

There is a learning curve to this, not everyone hits the ground as an expect.

I couldn't agree more and here's my $0.02 worth:

 

As a "newb" myself, I'd like to see those that are flaming the "newb's" hides admit, honestly, how many finds they had before they rushed out and hid their first Wally World micros and/or other hides that didn't have NASA type coordinates to support them. Not that I'd expect those that consider themselves above the rest of us, and by "us" I mean those that have found this hobby in the last year or so and have fallen head-over-heels in love with an activity that gets us outside with our loved ones to the point that we'd like to try to give back to the community by hiding some for others, including the omnipotent ones who happened upon the website before we did, to find, to own up to it. It's just that I come here, humbly, to glean as much knowledge as I can as a "newb" and then I find a thread like this. Am I to come away from this with an understanding that I now have to gain not only my local approver's blessing for one of my caches but also by the geocaching.com community as a whole before I place a hide??? This is exactly why I haven't become a Premium Member yet. I'd love to, but why? The only benefit I see so far is the convenience of the PQ's and the benefit of finding "Member's Only" caches. Ohhhh wait a minute...those that are flaming the "newbs" are, I'm sure, Premium Members. There's a quick fix to this. Those of you who don't want to find the caches hidden by us "newbs", who might just actually be in the learning stage/curve cycle of things, should only be allowed to hunt the "Members Only" caches. Then, the rest of us, can use the site for it's intended purpose of promoting the sport as it was originally intended: to promote outdoor activity, give us a use for our GPS other than finding great camping/hunting/fishing spots, meet others with similar interests, and give us an excuse to get outside if we needed one.

 

I did the math on the OP:

 

First Find: GCBF19 - FOUND: 04/23/2003

 

First Hide: GCG2MA - HIDDEN: 05/06/2003

 

That's 14 days between first find and first hide with only a total of 7 finds between first find and first hide.

 

I'll go crawl under a rock now so all of you much more experienced folks can burn me at the stake. Sorry I tried to enjoy the hobby and I'll be sure to try to get your approval before I post/hide anything else.

Edited by Jester2112
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For a number of reasons our first hide was nearly 2 years after our first geocaching hunt. We already had seen a lot of hides and I can tell you our very first hide was both very simple AND the most extensive work we ever put into a hide. We literally planned it for months to be sure it would be perfect.

 

Fast forward to now... all 21 of our hides are still active and none of our caches have ever been truely muggled. I know for a fact that the local non-geocachers are aware of our first placed geocache, but it remains in place and is to date by far our most popular cache to be visited. In addition to the fact that I know muggles are aware of the cache (we get posts about finders being approached by the local people to show them where the cache is) there are concerns I have over leaving this very successful cache active. Since the container is pretty nice, I have considered archiving the cache and using it for a new cache in town - though not necessarily in the same place.

 

This is where I am torn... it was my first cache so now I see a lot of problems with the placement i never considered even though I spent literally months planning the hide. On the other hand it is by far our most popular cache to be found so certainly plenty of people appreciate a quick park and grab micro in an urban park. We hardly ever have a DNF (might actually have zero, come to think of it) although several people noted taking 2 trips to find the cache.

 

I probably have a quarter of our caches deemed needing a relocation - all for completely different reasons. Not all of them were our first caches hidden and even our early hides are not what I would consider bad, but I see a point of change might benefit the hides and the areas they were hidden in better over time.

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...However, why not add some of that peer pressure into the "Hide a cache" section of the site?

 

Part of the issue is that a brand new cachers don't receive any peer pressure because they don't know who the peers are.

 

And yes, I know that not all newbies will even read the ideas behind the hide a cache page, but maybe if the community feels it's a worthy goal to get a feel for caching before placing your own, TPTB could call attention to the idea without adding a requirement.

 

I think this is an excellent suggestion.

 

…Maybee we could make it so they have to read and post in a few threads pertaining to hiding a cache before they are allowed to hide a cache. Who knows a little interactive tutorial? I know I would not have minded doing that before my first hide.

 

Yes, another great idea: a mandatory, interactive tutorial. The mechanism is already in place in the form of this forum, and it would encourage new cachers to interact within the community.

 

…There are people out there with over a thousand finds that still can't hide a decent cache. By your suggestions if we require people to find a certain number of caches before they hide one, it will give us better caches. Let me ask you this. One you prefer someone with a creative mind that has never hid a cache, or would you like to require that they model their caches after the last 20 lame caches they found? If we require them to find caches to begin with, how do we know they didn't find a bunch of lame caches and therefore think that's the norm?

 

This is a valid point, and I would hate to discourage creativity by demonstrating the mundane.

 

On the other hand, GC.com (on the Hide a Cache page) invites, “Reporting a new cache is easy. Just fill out our online form to report a new cache to the web site.”

 

It’s easy, just fill out the form, read the guidelines, and submit.

 

A little lower on the page is a link to a quick tutorial. Perhaps this tutorial should have greater priority; maybe it could be interactive. B):)

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...As a "newb" myself, I'd like to see those that are flaming the "newb's" hides admit, honestly, how many finds they had before they rushed out and hid their first Wally World micros and/or other hides that didn't have NASA type coordinates to support them.  Not that I'd expect those that consider themselves above the rest of us, and by "us" I mean those that have found this hobby in the last year or so and have fallen head-over-heels in love with an activity that gets us outside with our loved ones to the point that we'd like to try to give back to the community by hiding some for others, including the omnipotent ones who happened upon the website before we did, to find, to own up to it.  It's just that I come here, humbly, to glean as much knowledge as I can as a "newb" and then I find a thread like this.  Am I to come away from this with an understanding that I now have to gain not only my local approver's blessing for one of my caches but also by the geocaching.com community as a whole before I place a hide???  This is exactly why I haven't become a Premium Member yet.  I'd love to, but why?  The only benefit I see so far is the convenience of the PQ's and the benefit of finding "Member's Only" caches.  Ohhhh wait a minute...those that are flaming the "newbs" are, I'm sure, Premium Members.  There's a quick fix to this.  Those of you who don't want to find the caches hidden by us "newbs", who might just actually be in the learning stage/curve cycle of things, should only be allowed to hunt the "Members Only" caches.  Then, the rest of us, can use the site for it's intended purpose of promoting the sport as it was originally intended:  to promote outdoor activity, give us a use for our GPS other than finding great camping/hunting/fishing spots, meet others with similar interests, and give us an excuse to get outside if we needed one.

 

I did the math on the OP:

 

First Find:  GCBF19 - FOUND:  04/23/2003

 

First Hide:  GCG2MA - HIDDEN:  05/06/2003

 

That's 14 days between first find and first hide with only a total of 7 finds between first find and first hide.

 

I'll go crawl under a rock now so all of you much more experienced folks can burn me at the stake.  Sorry I tried to enjoy the hobby and I'll be sure to try to get your approval before I post/hide anything else.

Dude, I’m sorry if you misinterpreted my topic as a newbie flame. Actually, before this topic, I rarely used the word newbie; I hate it; I’m sorry I used it now.

 

I just sincerely believe new cachers should have some general knowledge about caching before they place a cache.

 

Concerning your allusion that I may have placed my first cache too early, please note the the log right before mine (on my first find):

 

As I was about to set out for this cache I met a couple of back packers at the trail head. As one of them departed in their pre-positioned vehicle to buy supplies for their continued trek, the remaining hiker and I struck up a conversation.

After something over an hour I needed to press on. I explained what I was doing and my new friend became very interested. He owns a GPS, loves hiking and biking, and likes to hide and find things. In short, he's a natural born cacher!

He accompanied me on the search for this cache. As we hiked, the more I explained about geocaching the more enthusiastic he became. When we found the cache he picked out a geocaching name and logged the cache!

 

I dropped off Sam's Turtle TB that wants to work its way north to Canada. I also left a horse shoe I found on the trail to the cache. I thought I'd left a small key chain penlight, but I found that in my pocket when I hit the shower after my return home. I took a penlight.

 

After replacing the cache and returning to the trail, my companion and I parted company, he to return to the trail head and me to continue my bosky trek to Gen-Yoo-Wine cache. I'm looking forward to seeing if the decidedly uneuphonious name of Sept1c_Tank does, indeed, join our ranks.

 

It explains how I received a 90-minute tutorial from a cacher who began caching in 2001 with (at that time) over 800 finds. A 30-minute hike followed that to a real cache (let’s call it hands-on experience).

 

BTW, on the hike, my friend Quiddler explained his curious pseudonym; quiddler is defined as, “One who wastes his energy about trifles.” B):)

Edited by sept1c_tank
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100 caches found before I hid my first one. 170 caches to my second hide.

1 find before my first hide. Three finds before my second.

 

I'm against any kind of rule regarding a manditory number of finds before hiding. I've found some excellent caches placed by people with few or no finds and some absolute junk placed by people with hundreds of finds.

 

Poor caches come from a lack of imagination and effort, not a lack of experience.

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Hey Jester2112, I don't think anyone was flaming new cachers - I know I wasn't - the flame is for anyone who places a cache without understanding geocaching or their GPS. I love new cachers - especially the ones that hide caches or get excited about your old ignored hides!

At our last event we had a vote for best new area cacher 2005 (a golden ammo can was presented) and the good news was that there were a considerable number of folks in the running. Gotta love it. I've exchanged email with the folks whose cache I linked to above - they've started finding some caches on the weekends. I hope they relist both of their hides (with good coords) they're both good spots for a cache.

Edited by Isonzo Karst
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For a hide to be 150 feet off, something must be very wrong or the user has no clue on how to use the unit.

 

Unfortunatley, some hiders use intentionally BAD coords. Rounding the 3rd digit to 0, or dropping it all together, etc. Some hiders are known for their Always BAD coords.

Some of those hiders keep hiding and hiding and hiding. My state will soon have 1000

of these "gems" hidden, and probably ALL of them are NOT at the listed coords.

 

"sneaky" they may call it, or whatever - but in the end- its just poor/sloppy use of the technology.

Sometimes it is bad equipment. We have a cacher in our area that uses and old GPS without the last digit. The guy does the best he can to get the cords right, but has been as close as 2 feet or as far off as 150 feet. He places good caches and thank goodness he leaves good clue. So far with the clues alone I have been lucky enough to find all of his. I almost feel like giving the guy my old Garmin e-Trex. As for Rules, I'm with Outback, "No Rules, Just Right"

Edited by Turtle3863
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No more rules, please! With a new cacher whose coordinates are off, email him with suggestions on how to get accurate readings and verify them. Offer your help. That's what we do around here. And I find it curious whenever cachers post logs that mention the cache or leg is off by so many feet, but don't bother to use the feature that lets you post the coordinates that you believe to be correct...

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And I find it curious whenever cachers post logs that mention the cache or leg is off by so many feet, but don't bother to use the feature that lets you post the coordinates that you believe to be correct...

Exactly.

 

There are so many people who say "cache found 100 feet away" without posting "correct" coordinates. If you think the coordinates are wrong, post your own. You'll help future cachers and may help the cache owner evaluate whether s/he's made a mistake.

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The rules (or guidelines) are there to set the parameters for the caching community, not guard against bad caches. "No knives in caches" "No food in caches" and "no caches within .1 mile of each other" are there to keep us from conflicting with the managers, the surroundings and each other.

 

The type of issues that Dick has cited are best handled within the community. I've seen several examples where a newbie placed a poorly thought out multi and gratefully received some help from more experienced cachers. The same goes for bad coordinates. These things happen and it's best if we help each other out.

 

Kindly.

 

Other than that, advice is always nice. I was advised to find 14 caches before placing my first. Of course, back then it took me a few months to find that many caches. I'd hate to think that someone could hit enough Walmart parking lots to get 14 caches in one day and think that's how the game is supposed to be played, but they probably could.

 

But the point is, this is a community. If the cache has problems, the community should respond appropriately.

 

Bret

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one of our local cachers has a GPS that has the format 00.00.00 so they add a 0 to the end to make it fit the format. thankfully we here are a bunch of nice guys and showed them places to convert the coords to the proper format for the cache pages....hopefully this will help with some of the probs.

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It isn't just n00bs that mess up with the coordinates. There is a guy here in East Texas who it appears, throws film cannisters into the woods as he drives by and then marks the spot. He's been on the books for more than 2 years. I picked up one of his on a FTF. The coordinates were off by 75ft. When I mentioned it in the log, he said that was why he made a difficulty rating of 2 instead of 1. 75ft on purpose? <_<

 

Carry on.

;)

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Hey, look! A test!

 

1. It's OK to place food in caches if:

a ) It's well wrapped

b ) it can withstand extremes of temperatures

c ) it tastes good

d ) All of the above

e ) None of the above

 

C. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to leave ice cream in caches!

 

2.If you are placing a cache on private property

make sure you:

a ) do it late at night so nobody sees you

b ) camoflage it well so the property owner won't find it by accident

c ) ask permission

 

B. How dare they let property rights get in the way of my fun!

 

3. An admin has failed to approve your cache as posted, so you:

a ) post a note in the forums ranting about how unfair the approvers are.

b ) call Jeremy at home and discuss it with him.

c ) Try to work with the approver to determine a way to make it acceptable.

 

B. If that doesn't work, revert to A.

 

4. When choosing a cache container:

a ) make sure its cheap in case its stolen

b ) make sure its easy to open

c ) make sure it's solid, watertight and an appropriate size.

 

A. In case the property owner in question 2 finds it despite your best camo job!

 

5. The best places to hide caches are:

a ) in garbage strewn lots under a sheet of

rotten plywood

b ) cool spots like railroad tracks, bridges or

military installations

c ) in an area that others may find

interesting

 

A. That way people can find plenty of stuff to trade if they forget to bring stuff with them!

 

6. When choosing trade items for your cache:

a ) always use broken toys from the bottom of

your kids toy chest since its all about the hunt anyway.

b ) dump discards from your junk drawer in the

into the cache

c ) thoughtfully chose items that might be of interest to adults and children

 

B. I don't have kids!

 

7. When using old food containers as cache containers always:

a ) wipe the inside clean with your t-shirt

b ) shake out the crumbs

c ) run it through several diswhasher cycles and soak it in bleach, Oxy Clean or baking soda for a few days.

 

D. Don't bother with any of that. Leave some of the food in them as a FTF prize!

 

8.After placing your cache you should:

a ) leave it be, it will take care of itself

b ) visit it every few years

c ) Perform regular maintenance and respond promptly if someone reports a problem.

 

A. There are always people who'll take care of stuff if I ignore it! It works at work, why not with geocaching?

 

9. If a visitor reports a problem with your cache:

a ) post a note asking that the next visitor fix it.

b ) let it go. Some people actually like caches with soaked log books and 2 inches of slimy water inside.

c ) Visit the site at the next possible opportunity to check on the cache

 

B. See question 8.

 

10. If your state park implements rules regarding cache placement, you should:

a ) Ignore them. Rules are for fools.

b ) place a multi with the first leg outside the park

c ) Follow the rules

 

A. If private property rights don't matter, why should I care about stupid rules on public property!

 

11. If your 1 difficulty cache has several consectuive "not founds" you should:

a ) Ignore it. They were probably newbies

b ) Ask someone who found it before to check on it for you.

c ) Promptly check for yourself to see if its still there.

 

A. Some people just don't have enough mad caching skillz to find my hide!

 

12. If you choose not to replace your missing cache:

a ) Leave it active so others can still enjoy the hunt

b ) Disable it and leave it that way for at least 2 years.

c ) Archive the cache

 

A. Hey, maybe someone will just put a new container out there if I leave it long enough!

 

13. If your local park bans geocaching:

a ) screw 'em and place your cache anyway

b ) try to discuss the benefits of geocaching with the park manager

 

A. See question 10.

 

14. When placing a cache deep in the forest:

a ) use a micro and hide it so well, people have to turn over every rock and log to find it.

b ) hide it well enough so it won't be accidently discovered, but so a geocacher can find it.

 

A. It's not my fault that you can't find a film canister stuck in a crevice between two boulders in a large glacial deposit! You just have to look longer and harder!

 

15. When placing a geocache in a popular city park:

a ) use a big ammo box, stuffed full of goodies

b ) use a PVC pipe, or mortar shell

c ) use a small cache container, or micro and hide it carefully.

 

B. Mortar shells look cool and kids will love them!

 

16. When placing a cache in an environmentally sensitive area you should:

a ) walk on your tip-toes

b ) forget about it and look elsewhere

 

A. If a plant doesn't like my cache, it can move!

 

17. If you notice social paths and trampled plants around your cache you should:

a ) leave it. It will make it easier for others to find it.

b ) post a note on your cache page asking people to be careful.

c ) move the cache to an area with a more durable surface.

 

A. Maybe people will stop complaining about my woodland micro now!

 

18. If you find a denned bear in the cave where you placed your cache you should:

a ) hide there with a camera and take pictures of the look on people's faces when they see the bear.

b ) grab a stick and drive the bear out of your cave.

c ) disable the cache until the bear has left the den for the season.

 

A. Maybe they'll make the front page on gc.com!

 

19. Your encrypted clue should contain:

a) Important information about parking, trespassing issues and special equipment that might be required.

b ) Several paragraphs, describing in detail which trails to take to get to the cache.

c ) Information that will help narrow down the search area if the finder is having problems.

 

A. They check everything before they head out! They'll need serious climbing gear to get to the bear cave!

 

20. When placing caches on vacation:

a ) Make sure its placed in an interesting spot

b ) Ask local Geocachers if they mind

c ) just don't do it.

 

A. There sure is a lot of neat stuff in this garbage strewn lot!

 

Do I pass?

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100 caches found before I hid my first one. 170 caches to my second hide.

1 find before my first hide. Three finds before my second.

 

I'm against any kind of rule regarding a manditory number of finds before hiding. I've found some excellent caches placed by people with few or no finds and some absolute junk placed by people with hundreds of finds.

 

Poor caches come from a lack of imagination and effort, not a lack of experience.

Yes, but look at when you started compared to when the other folks have started. That's apples and oranges when you think about when the sport started versus where it is now. You have a much larger population of membership coming on so fast most folks don't get the peer-to-peer mentorship that used to be in place.

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Not sure how many "newbies" will actually venture to this thread, but here's a link that's easily found by going through the "Getting Started" tab that's always visible on the top left corner of GC.com:

 

Hiding Your First Geocache

 

I'm amused by the "administering a test" idea. If Groundspeak is serious about implementing this suggestion, there should be a printable page with a "Geocaching License" when the test has been successfully completed. <_<

 

(And Premium Members should get a "Gold Card" with an expiration date)

 

This should motivate the veteran cachers from going through the test as a refresher, since there's a tangible reward at the end. ;)

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I think it is a good idea to require a new hider to pass a test to verify that the guidelines have been read and are understood.

 

One of the benefits of using a test (expecially a multiple choice test) is that this forces the clarification of the material being tested to the point of being unambigous. If the guidelines can be streamlined to a multiple choice test, then everyone can learn them and will have no excuse for not obeying them. If you read the recent thread about a bridge cache being mistaken for a bomb, the hider said "There are guidelines, but not for that" or words to this effect. Clearly he forgot the guidelines and a test would have helped, especially if you have to retake it after 6 months or maybe a year.

 

So a test can not only help reduce the number of caches with poor coordinates, it can likely reduce the number of caches that go against the guidelines and result in wasted approver time or worse case problems with the civil authorities.

 

I don't see a test being a big deal to take. If you know the guidelines, you should be able to complete 100 questions in 3 minutes or so.

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Problem is, anyone can fudge a test. I had to take traffic school recently, so I did it online. I didn't even really bother to read the questions--I just kept clicking on answers until I reached the minimum passing score. I passed the course in 20 minutes. Had I bothered to actually read what I was being asked, it would've taken me quite a bit longer. <_<

 

Sure, some of the worst caches I've found have been hidden by people with very few finds. But, some of the worst caches I've found have been hidden by people with 1000+ finds, and some of the best caches I've found have been hidden by people with very view finds.

 

I didn't hide my first cache until 94 finds. By then I knew I was good and ready. Your mileage may vary.

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