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Geocaching, Hunters And Safety Vests


earthshaker
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So..........where do I find that emoticon for my head exploding?

I think its this one explotar2jr.gif

Okay, so that just made my entire weekend!!!

 

Johnny Vegas-- red or yellow shirts are easier to see in nature than say, a green or brown one, but the main reason hunter/blaze orange is mandated for hunters is it is a color which, unlike red or yellow, does NOT occur in nature. It stands out in virtually every surrounding.

 

T*B*-- I think we share the same warped sense of humor. Now I'm going to be sitting in my stand, giggling to myself thinking about that. Although, when the geocacher wets himself after your bloodcurdling scream, you might as well go home because he just ruined your scent control :mad:

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HEADLINE: Bowhunter does not shoot Geocacher!

Is this because he wasn't in season? ;)

Yep!

 

Geocacher season starts the first warm day of Spring after the snow melts when they are nice and plump from a Winter of sitting in front of their PCs eating microwavable burritos and cheezy poofs... ;)

 

Stay safe...wear orange!

T*B*

 

To Forum Monitor: I know its off topic...Sorry...could'nt help myself :mad: Please don't yell at me or I'll have to quit geocaching ;)

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...BUT...being the warped individual that I am I was tempted to let out a very loud blood curdling scream  :mad:  Not knowing the person (does he have a bad ticker? No sense of humor?) I chose not to.

;) If the situation should ever arise again, rather than stifling a blood-curdling scream, might I suggest you instead start calling out (in a deep, resonant voice):

 

Warm ...

Warmer ...

Colder! ...

Red hot!

 

If the cacher still can't spot where your voice is coming from, make sure you proclaim yourself to be "Jeremy, Patron Saint of Lost Cachers", responding to the prayers of the faithful. Insist the cacher compose a hymn in their online log to praise and thank you for guiding them to the cache.

Mmmmmm...I like it!

 

Saty safe...wear orange

T*B*

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Here's my opinion...

 

I think that it's sad that some cachers view hunters as 'opponents.'

 

Hunters are licensed users of the same spaces we like to use for geocaching. (I edited the rest out......)

Sorry. Untrue.

 

Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission, while hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege, kill animials there and contaminate the property with stray bullets made of lead.

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Here's my opinion...

 

I think that it's sad that some cachers view hunters as 'opponents.'

 

Hunters are licensed users of the same spaces we like to use for geocaching. (I edited the rest out......)

Sorry. Untrue.

 

Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission, while hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege, kill animials there and contaminate the property with stray bullets made of lead.

Both of these statements are made with incredible bias. I can show many examples of caches that I know were placed without permission and hunters I know who carefully ask for and maintain permission to hunt on private property.

 

I've seen a lot of extreme opinions about hunters and cachers in this thread. To me it comes down to personal responsibility. If you're going to be in the woods it's your job to know what's happening in your surroundings. Hunting seasons and times are posted everywhere from your local newspaper to the Walmart hunting/fishing counter to the boards at your local park offices. Pay attention. Wear orange when the season calls for it. If you see hunters who aren't within regulations contact your local game warden or whatever they call themselves these days.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there's anything of value left to contribute to this thread.

 

Bret

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What I have seen in this thread are a LOT of polarizing comments about hunters and hunting.

 

For the hunting haters - Most hunters are responsible individuals who know how to handle and discharge a fire arm. You don't understand why they want to hunt and you never will, but making them out to be a bunch of beer swilling yahoos who shoot anything that moves is just asking for a fight.

 

For the hunters - Hunt responsibly and don't "shoot" your mouth off. :mad: Sorry, I couldn't resist.

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Here's my opinion...

 

I think that it's sad that some cachers view hunters as 'opponents.'

 

Hunters are licensed users of the same spaces we like to use for geocaching. (I edited the rest out......)

Sorry. Untrue.

 

Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission, while hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege, kill animials there and contaminate the property with stray bullets made of lead.

First, All you have to do is look at all the current threads of caches being mistaken for bombs under bridges, near schools, near power lines etc to refute the first claim. In addition, there are the cache reviewers that serve as a filter to remove most of teh caches that are placed incorrectly.

 

As far as hunting where they are not supposed to be, my experence is that hunters who hunt on posted land very often are also not properly licensed, and often not in posession of a hunting safety course certificate. At least here in NJ, Game Wardens and property owners are VERY aware of who is hunting where. I have had family members involved in incidents where they shot a deer and it ran and dropped about 10' off a posted tree line. They retreived it, and after hauling it out, they were approached by both a Warden and the property owner. After explaining what happend, all parties shook hands and went on their way, but people are watching.

 

I can't tell you the number of times that I have been stopped by Game Wardens for; License Check, tranportation of firearms check, crossing logging roads unloaded checks, bag limit checks, - it all happens. And yes, depending on the season - hunter orange check. Nobody is at the trail head though, checking that the hiker entering the woods is not wearing a pair of jeans and a cotton sweatshirt, and carrying a can of soda and a bag of chips. Not until SAR is called out that evening that is. So lets everyone all wear orange (except the bow hunters) and all get along sharing the wilderness that is everyones right.

 

-dave

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Here's my opinion...

 

I think that it's sad that some cachers view hunters as 'opponents.'

 

Hunters are licensed users of the same spaces we like to use for geocaching. (I edited the rest out......)

Sorry. Untrue.

 

Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission, while hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege, kill animials there and contaminate the property with stray bullets made of lead.

First, All you have to do is look at all the current threads of caches being mistaken for bombs under bridges, near schools, near power lines etc to refute the first claim. In addition, there are the cache reviewers that serve as a filter to remove most of teh caches that are placed incorrectly.

 

As far as hunting where they are not supposed to be, my experence is that hunters who hunt on posted land very often are also not properly licensed, and often not in posession of a hunting safety course certificate. At least here in NJ, Game Wardens and property owners are VERY aware of who is hunting where. I have had family members involved in incidents where they shot a deer and it ran and dropped about 10' off a posted tree line. They retreived it, and after hauling it out, they were approached by both a Warden and the property owner. After explaining what happend, all parties shook hands and went on their way, but people are watching.

 

(edited out the last paragraph.)

For reference, there are over 200,000 active caches right now, and the frequency that problems arise from them being mistaken as bombs or placed under power lines in absurdly low. Let's assume you have read about 100 "bad" caches in the forums, which I think is a high number. Now just to be fair, assume for every bad cache reported, there are 10 more out there that no-one talks about, and just to make the math easier, let's multiply that number by 2. This works out to 1% of the caches being placed where they don't have permission. Now let's arbitrarily assume the number is actually 10%. I said "Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission" and I stand by that claim. Unless you can come up with other numbers, of course.

 

I also said: "hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege". Since I can't come up with numbers to support my opinion, I can only describe my experience in NY. The law does not require hunters to ask permission to hunt on private property. It is very clearly stated that they can't hunt within 500' of an occupied dwelling and they only need to keep off property that is posted at the owners expense with No Hunting signs every 660' on the property line. In the 20 years I have owned property in NY, I have only been asked twice if people could hunt my property. Both times they got permission, but judging by the trash, shells and remains of deer carcasses I have found over the years, I can state as a fact that the majority of hunting done on my property is done without my knowlege or permission.

 

I also said hunters kill animals. That is the goal of hunting. To kill an animal.

 

I also said hunters contaminate property with stray bullets made of lead. Another statement of fact. Any bullet that does not hit it's target is by definition, a stray bullet. Bullets are made of lead. Unless a hunter tracks down and removes every bullet they shoot, they are contaminating the environment with lead.

 

If anyone can present facts or data to refute any of the points I have made, I would like to see them. And please note I did not say hunting or hunter's were bad, or killing animals is wrong. In my opinion, wearing blaze orange during hunting season is a good idea.

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I also said hunters kill animals. That is the goal of hunting. To kill an animal.

I don't have time to respond to everything you said, but I have to say something about that statement. It's totally wrong, at least for me and a lot of other hunters I know. I go hunting to get outside and enjoy the great outdoors. I don't just go out in the woods when a season is open, I go out all year round scouting and enjoying god's creations. I didn't kill a deer last year, but I don't consider the season a failure, I enjoyed the time outdoors, and every hunt is a learning experience.

 

Taking an animal is a bonus, but for many hunters, myself included it is NOT the primary goal of hunting. We don't go out just to kill, that's another common misconception about hunters, that we don't even go near the woods until opening day and start banging away.

 

I spent hundreds of hours in the woods this past spring scouting and looking for shed deer antlers, gaining knowledge I could use in future hunts. I wouldn't do that if I didn't enjoy it, it's part of hunting. So to say that hunting is only about killing something is totally wrong, because to me it's a LOT more than that. :)

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Here's my opinion...

 

I think that it's sad that some cachers view hunters as 'opponents.'

 

Hunters are licensed users of the same spaces we like to use for geocaching. (I edited the rest out......)

Sorry. Untrue.

 

Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission, while hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege, kill animials there and contaminate the property with stray bullets made of lead.

First, All you have to do is look at all the current threads of caches being mistaken for bombs under bridges, near schools, near power lines etc to refute the first claim. In addition, there are the cache reviewers that serve as a filter to remove most of teh caches that are placed incorrectly.

 

As far as hunting where they are not supposed to be, my experence is that hunters who hunt on posted land very often are also not properly licensed, and often not in posession of a hunting safety course certificate. At least here in NJ, Game Wardens and property owners are VERY aware of who is hunting where. I have had family members involved in incidents where they shot a deer and it ran and dropped about 10' off a posted tree line. They retreived it, and after hauling it out, they were approached by both a Warden and the property owner. After explaining what happend, all parties shook hands and went on their way, but people are watching.

 

(edited out the last paragraph.)

For reference, there are over 200,000 active caches right now, and the frequency that problems arise from them being mistaken as bombs or placed under power lines in absurdly low. Let's assume you have read about 100 "bad" caches in the forums, which I think is a high number. Now just to be fair, assume for every bad cache reported, there are 10 more out there that no-one talks about, and just to make the math easier, let's multiply that number by 2. This works out to 1% of the caches being placed where they don't have permission. Now let's arbitrarily assume the number is actually 10%. I said "Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission" and I stand by that claim. Unless you can come up with other numbers, of course.

 

I also said: "hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege". Since I can't come up with numbers to support my opinion, I can only describe my experience in NY. The law does not require hunters to ask permission to hunt on private property. It is very clearly stated that they can't hunt within 500' of an occupied dwelling and they only need to keep off property that is posted at the owners expense with No Hunting signs every 660' on the property line. In the 20 years I have owned property in NY, I have only been asked twice if people could hunt my property. Both times they got permission, but judging by the trash, shells and remains of deer carcasses I have found over the years, I can state as a fact that the majority of hunting done on my property is done without my knowlege or permission.

 

I also said hunters kill animals. That is the goal of hunting. To kill an animal.

 

I also said hunters contaminate property with stray bullets made of lead. Another statement of fact. Any bullet that does not hit it's target is by definition, a stray bullet. Bullets are made of lead. Unless a hunter tracks down and removes every bullet they shoot, they are contaminating the environment with lead.

 

If anyone can present facts or data to refute any of the points I have made, I would like to see them. And please note I did not say hunting or hunter's were bad, or killing animals is wrong. In my opinion, wearing blaze orange during hunting season is a good idea.

I am not going to get into a numbers game here, because the case you are tyring to prove is ill defined. You stated that "Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission" and I responded with exidence of poorly placed caches. That was poor evidence on my part. To correctly respond to your assertatin, I would have to know how many caches were placed with permission and how many were not. I have no way of knowing this. I can assume that any caches that were approved in areas where the land manager requires permission were placed correctly, or else the approver would reject them. However, I have found my share of caches placed in parking lots, parks, under bridges, and other such places. I am fairly certain that the hiders did not contact with local parks department, the Starbucks Home Office, the Wall-Mart headquarters, Cracker Barrel central command, or whoever else owns these properties. These caches were palced witout permission. And yes, placeing a kid a key under a lamp post skirt in the back corner of some K-Mart is a lot different than tresspassing onto posted land and taking a deer. I am truly sorry that some morons see fit to trespass on your posted land and take deer. I am also glad to see that you did not refuse access to those who did ask for it.

 

As far as the point of hunting is to kill an animal. In my case - not true. in others, it is. In hunting, much like in most of life, you take away what you put into it.

 

With the subject of lead. I cannnot argue with you there. I have never left a casing in the woods. But I have found (and carried out quite a few).

 

And yes, orange is good.

 

-dave

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I spent hundreds of hours in the woods this past spring scouting and looking for shed deer antlers, gaining knowledge I could use in future hunts.

The main purpose of this is not for killing an animal? :)

Edited by 5¢
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Animals need to be killed. Not doing so creates environmental isuues leading to slow death for many animals (not just the target species) and endangers other wildlife by having their food completely consumed. Additionally, unchecked populations also cause severe economic damage in the form of vehicular accidents and damage to farm crops.

 

If you really love animals, either prevent ALL animal death from ALL sources (I'm sure the Bald Eagles will be real receptive to your anti-rabbit eating protests) or recognize that population control via hunting is beneficial to the overall scheme of things. Not to mention tasty!

 

Hunting season has started here (no for deer, yet) so in NH always wear blaze orange.

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I spent hundreds of hours in the woods this past spring scouting and looking for shed deer antlers, gaining knowledge I could use in future hunts.

The main purpose of this is not for killing an animal? :unsure:

it helps, but it's not the main purprose for going out in the off-season. looking for shed antlers is a sport in itself. Anway I like being outside in the late winter, early spring. It's a beautiful time to be in the woods even if I don't find any sheds. I also keep my eyes peeled for arrowheads and stuff like that while I'm out there. I've always enjoyed exploring wooded areas, ever since I was little. The only difference now is I can go out on my own and spend as much time as I like enjoying nature.

 

I don't just try to learn about the animals to kill them either I should have mentioned that, I find deer and any other animal that runs around in the woods facinating, you can learn more watching an animal in the wild than you can from a TV show.

 

Some of my favorite hunts didn't even involve me or anyone else killing a deer. For instance, the hunt where a small group of does came out and as I was watching them, a big group of does with a really mean, dominant older doe came out and scared them out of the field. That big old doe pushed around those other deer, hitting them with her hooves, and chasing away others from where she was feeding. It was so facinating to watch this deer establish the pecking order in her group.

 

Or another hunt where a few does were feeding, I looked away for a few mins at a sound I heard coming from the other direction, when I looked back they were all bedded down less than 20 yards from me, where they stayed until I left the blind that evening.

 

Or the hunt where a nice buck chased 2 does right by me at only 20 yards. I grunted at him hoping to get a shot, but he completely ignored me, his focus entirely on the does, he ran by me grunting excitedly as he chased away from me. It was the first time I ever heard a buck grunt in real life.

 

One thing I'm still waiting to see, and I wish and hope for every year is to see 2 whitetail bucks lock antlers in a fight for dominance, so far I've yet to see that.

 

If it was all about the killing then I wouldn't have passed up a bunch of does and 2 small bucks last year. I got nothing last year, yet the season was still a sucess for me. I was happy to watch those little bucks walk off, hopefully they'll grow to be nice bucks in the future.

 

I don't think anyone really has a right to say what they "know" what hunting is about and what hunters are like until they have actually been hunting themselves.

 

I would say the same thing for people who have never been geocaching, you can't truely understand it until you have experienced it for yourself.

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i have an orange hat. i have a red jacket. i wear them.

 

i am not worried about most hunters. i have seen drunk ones, and i have seen stupid ones on posted land, and i've seen evidence of taking out of season.

 

just ONCE in my memory i've heard of a local man killed by a hunteer WHILE HE WAS INSIDE HIS HOME WATCHING FOOTBALL.

 

the vast majority of hunters i meet are decent people with a healthy respect for the firearms they carry. they appreciate it if you walk quietly and also if you take the appropriate precautions and don't look like things they'd like to shoot at.

 

they prefer it if you're aware of the risks! they're not careless or stupid!

 

 

but we all know that ONE careless or stupid bozo with a firearm is bad news for everybody. so while i caution you to avoid drunk and stupid hunters, i am well aware that "drunk and stupid" are not necessarily related to hunters.

did you ever meet a real hunter (and not just one of these boys with guns) who wanted to hang out with drunk and stupid hunters?

 

bet not.

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Geocachers generally do not place caches on property where they don't have permission, while hunters often hunt property without permission, or the owners knowlege, kill animials there and contaminate the property with stray bullets made of lead.

Well, this doesn't quite qualify as the silliest thing I've ever heard. That award still goes to Ted Kennedy. However, this takes a close second. Based upon your obvious bias, I'm betting that you've never actually talked to a game warden. If you ever get the chance, I hope you avail yourself of the opportunity. You might learn a few facts that would dispel your ingrained myths.

 

Of course there are hunters who break the law, but the percentage is so low as to be infinitesimal.

 

Back on topic: Wear orange! :laughing:

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I found a report (for 1996 - a while back) that interestingly shows that the number of self inflicted deaths and causulties is equal to more than half those in two party hunting. Self inflicted means sloppy weapon handling. With those kind of statistics, one wonders just how careful some hunters are when taking their shot when they think they see actual game.

 

There were no footnotes whether the "self inflicted" hunters were wearing orange when they took their shot!

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I've met plenty of hunters in the woods around Western WA, but more often I see folks target shooting without a backdrop - maybe OK with shotguns but not so OK with rifles. :lol: So far I've only heard rounds going past once, and that in a popular area. :blink: Four rounds hit within 40 feet of my group.

 

I'm sure orange vests are a good idea, but I'd rather avoid target shooting areas.

 

:D

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I'm not a hunter and never had a desire to hunt. But I do respect those who hunt for sport. Its part of our heritage and probably was one of the reasons that the human race developed to the point it has. We were slower and weaker than most of the animals, but we had to develop our brains to the point where we could beat and eat them.

 

I've often thought the anti-hunting crowd was a bit out of touch. This was confirmed to me recently when at a hearing about whether New Jersey should allow a bear hunt, a prominent anti hunter said "When animals kill other animals its a tragedy. "When humans kill animals it is criminal".

 

I always thought that when animals kill other animals it is nature.

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I found a report (for 1996 - a while back) that interestingly shows that the number of self inflicted deaths and causulties is equal to more than half those in two party hunting. Self inflicted means sloppy weapon handling. With those kind of statistics, one wonders just how careful some hunters are when taking their shot when they think they see actual game.

 

There were no footnotes whether the "self inflicted" hunters were wearing orange when they took their shot!

Sorry, sloppy statistics analysis is all I see there.

 

According to your analysis, over half of accidents involving two or more people were self inflicted. You make the assumption that it was all sloppy firearms handling, neglecting the fact that accidents do indeed happen. Two instances in my experience stick out in my mind, neither of which were sloppy weapons handling, and luckily neither resulted in an injury.

 

What you fail to state, and what is a critical piece of information to give your analysis any validity at all, is the number of hunting parties in the survey area this report was based on had any injury at all. If you have 4,000 hunting groups in a state, but only two accidents and one of them was self inflicted, you cannot draw a generalization about the entire group. Now, if you could say "Of the 8% of hunting parties reporting an accident this year, over 50% of them were self inflicted" THAT would be a valid argument and analysis.

 

As it stands, your argument and analysis actually backfires on you. By generalizing that 50% of all hunting accidents are self inflicted, you actually state that by being an unarmed geocacher in the woods, you're odds of being injured in an accident are actually LESS than 50%. When you factor in that not every hunting group has an accident, the odds become even better in favor of you 'escaping' unscathed.

 

As I've said before, there are a few boneheads that give hunters a bad reputation, just like there are a few boneheads that give geocaching a bad reputation. But, you are safe in the woods, just take a few precautions.

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I found a report (for 1996 - a while back) that interestingly shows that the number of self inflicted deaths and causulties is equal to more than half those in two party hunting. Self inflicted means sloppy weapon handling. With those kind of statistics, one wonders just how careful some hunters are when taking their shot when they think they see actual game.

 

There were no footnotes whether the "self inflicted" hunters were wearing orange when they took their shot!

Made my above post before I saw the link to the article quoted here.

 

It's actually a very good analysis of hunting accidents in the 1996 year, not sure if that was the calendar year or fiscal, and what dates were used.

 

999 accidents in essentially the entire US and Canada. Not a good thing, but not as bad as one might think. What the report leaves out however, is the total number of hunters in 1996, and how many of the two-party accidents were hunter-hunter or hunter-nonhunter--I'm guessing the latter number is VERY low.

 

If you take the time to read that report--which I suggest everyone does--and read the whole thing, you'll see that a large portion of the 'sloppy gun handling' quoted was in categories that are frequently accidents, not slop.

 

The bottom line is, if you're going out, put some orange on--and make sure it's hunter orange, it really DOES stand out in the woods versus yellow or red or any other bright color.

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Well, golly, it makes sense to wear a non-natural color when walking in a hunting area.

 

Once on horseback in Alaska, we (horse and/or I) darn near got shot by a hunter (he had a bead on us, I noticed the reflection on the scope, and rang bell and yelled) who thought we were a moose. This, despite the fact that I was wearing an orange vest, had bells jingling (for the bears, actually), the unmistakable snorts/neighs, the clip-clop of shod hooves on frozen ground, and finally the fact that people do not generally ride on the backs of moose. :)

 

My point is that situational awareness and using common sense in hunting season is most important, since even the obvious safety devices cannot fully protect a hiker.

 

Frankly, I am frustrated with hunting season since I am getting a bit weary of doing CITO on shotgun shells... hundreds of them...

Edited by Jeep_Dog
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sometimes when you shoot a shotgun, especially a pump, and you are excited after shooting at the deer and you pump it and the shell ejects out you don't see where it lands, you might still be watching to see where the animal goes so you can make a good recovery, after that it can be hard to spot then.

 

I always pick up my shells when I can find them, sometimes you just can't find them, I'm not saying it's right to leave them just that's it's easy to lose them, especially if you shoot while in a tree stand.

 

I actually made a mini cache that is a 3 1/2 in shotgun shell, there's a hole in the side with a plastic tube that will stick in a stump or something, I dunno I haven't decided if I'll actually use it or not. I'm still a ways from placing my first cache.

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sometimes when you shoot a shotgun, especially a pump, and you are excited after shooting at the deer and you pump it and the shell ejects out you don't see where it lands, you might still be watching to see where the animal goes so you can make a good recovery, after that it can be hard to spot then.

 

I always pick up my shells when I can find them, sometimes you just can't find them, I'm not saying it's right to leave them just that's it's easy to lose them, especially if you shoot while in a tree stand.

 

I actually made a mini cache that is a 3 1/2 in shotgun shell, there's a hole in the side with a plastic tube that will stick in a stump or something, I dunno I haven't decided if I'll actually use it or not. I'm still a ways from placing my first cache.

It can be hard to see them in grass, let alone leaves and brush. ;)

We always try too, but you can't always get them all.

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