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lrgoodger

Silver Left At Southwest Michigan Caches

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This again?

 

If it's not a scam, why is it so important that we know about your scam?

 

Oops, did i say scam twice?

 

Oops, I said scam three times.

 

Oops! Four times.

Edited by BlueDeuce

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This again?

 

If it's not a scam, why is it so important that we know about your scam?

 

Oops, did i say scam twice?

 

Oops, I said scam three times.

 

Oops! Four times.

:rolleyes:

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This again?

 

If it's not a scam, why is it so important that we know about your scam?

 

(snip)

Someone with 49 finds found one. Do you really want to discourage someone who is hiding real caches? :rolleyes: If I had hid one, I'd be a little excited to tell others and not keep it a secret.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool

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This again?

 

If it's not a scam, why is it so important that we know about your scam?

 

(snip)

Someone with 49 finds found one. Do you really want to discourage someone who is hiding real caches? :rolleyes: If I had hid one, I'd be a little excited to tell others and not keep it a secret.

That's not the problem...the problem is, this has been discussed several times already, and the true intent revealed. Check out these previous threads:

 

This one...

 

And this one...

 

There's more to it than seems at face value.

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Hey man, why don't you use a coin tube as the cache container, thier plastic, pretty tough, and the coins fit right in. I mean that would qualify as a cache, and you could put your coins in there. Don't fill it up, leave some room for a log, and you got yourself a micro with silver in it. If that is really your intention? And you can hide it hard without burying it, just pick a place with lots of possible hiding places within a 30 foot radius, most people expect thier GPS to be off by that much.

 

Hey it may be a promo thing, but how many of us have went to a promo deal, got free stuff, and didn't buy anything. I've done it, they shove free stuff at you all the time trying to butter you up to buy something, but you are still under no obligation. Let's watch the newbie and see what he's up to. We all know how to watch people, put his caches on your watchlist, read his logs, he can't do much that won't be public noweledge on this site. I mean, whats he going to do, wait at the cache site for you to pay him.

Edited by Airmapper

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I have yet to see how this is a scam. The guy leaves silver coins as FTF prizes. He's given up on the "take all" cache idea that he first came to us with because it won't get listed that way. He gave up on the burying of the coin because it won't get listed that way. It sounds like all he does is put out micros with a FTF prize.

 

Whether he's enthusiastic about getting silver coins (aka "real" money) into people's hands isn't the point when it comes to the geocaching. There are plenty of caches that try to get people to visit specific parks in hopes that they get involved there. There are offsets that bring you up to the front door of museums and hidden non-profits.

 

I'd like someone to be less than their usual glib selves and explain the scam here, because I'm not seeing it.

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The scam is the coin itself. There is little, if any, silver in the coin. The people who make the coin say they keep the silver on reserve much the same way the government does. So when you pay for these coins, you own nothing of value.

 

His scam is advertising the sale of these coins. In reality this is at best an MLM plan, but more likely it is a pyrimid scheme. I think his caches should still be disapproved since it is clearly a commercial cache.

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If you do a little research on the guy, you'll see what he advertises as 'real silver' is in fact not. He's basically trying to revive the gold standard--where for every dollar of paper money and coin minted by the US, there was an equivelant value of gold in storage somewhere.

 

The coins he is hiding are not the 100% pure silver he makes them out to be. They are simple coins, much like our common currency. Instead of the Federal Reserve bank standing behind the money, he claims to have a reserve of precious metals backing his.

 

Sorry bub, I'll pass--if you can't be honest from the word go, how do you expect me to trust you with my money?

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OK, so I got curious. I can buy a $10 Liberty for $10 that contains 1 pure oz of silver ($10.00/oz) from this organization, or, I can buy 10 1 oz pure silver bars for $96.50 ($9.65/oz) at the first website I googled. The website also states that I can become a Liberty Associate for the low, low price of $250. My guess, this guy became an associate and now is trying to recoup some of his money. SCAM!!!!!

 

I'm all for leaving GREAT swag in existing caches. However, when his profile clearly states:

 

"I am the owner of the Liberty Dollar Regional Currency Office (RCO) for Southwest Michigan. I am organizing a PROMOTIONAL effort for the Liberty Dollar..."

 

It just screams "I'm trying to make money off the hobby you love". If this guy really wants to show his love for the sport, why doesn't he go find a few hundred caches and experience what makes us all love this game.

 

Just my $0.02 (or $0.01675 if I used Liberty Dollars purchased from his website) worth.

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I'm confused...if, as he claims, paper money is worth less than it used to be and is going to be worth even less tomorrow (which I'm not really disputing, everyone understands inflation), then why would he sell his silver for paper money?

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I'm still missing it. I understand that if you were to participate in his whole rigamaroll could potentially get you into a questionable money scheme.

 

But where is the harm in one of his coins being a FTF prize?

 

Who cares what his profile says? So long as his caches aren't overtly propogandistic (and if they're approved, the problem is more with the approver) then who cares what he likes to write on his profile?

 

I don't see where he's misrepresented himself or the coins (there is silver in them, right?). It's just a different valuation than the Federal Reserve and it's up to each person to use it correctly (although it may *feel* scam-like or have limited application).

 

It's not something I'd get involved with, but it's not like finding his caches first means you have to buy the coin from him. You just need to understand that if you have one of these coins, you don't have $10 USD, you have $10 SLD and the two are not equivalent. It's difficult to exchange between the two and banks and things do not take these. In fact, you could immediately redeem these for "real money" from one of the Silver Liberty organizations.

 

EDIT: I do agree that if there's anything about the caches that asks you to become an "Associate" then it's part of the pyramid-scheme aspect of the greater organization choosing to peddle this currency system, but otherwise, simply having one of these coins (and for free as FTF) is not part of the pyramid.

Edited by ju66l3r

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The original topic is about geocaches being placed and found. Keystone knows more about the bigger issues, but the bigger issues are off topic *as far as this topic goes*.

 

I am going to move this topic regarding two new caches to the appropriate local forum. If you have comments or questions about the caches then feel free to post. If you have concerns about the bigger issues, you should write to the contact at geocaching dottt com address.

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I added four caches to my found list today in Southwest Michigan. I left one ounce, .999 fine Silver Liberty pieces at three of them. Check my logs to find out where you can find these caches. If you are lucky enough to find the silver, you can trade out for it like any other item. Enjoy!

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Well, I had to think about aobut adding another post to this thread for a while. If folks like tossedsalad and dkwolf want to show their ignorance by claiming that Silver Liberys are not real silver, then who am I to expose them? But then, there are the uninformed out there who might believe them. Any banker who knows about the Silver Liberty will readily admit that it is real silver. They just don't want the people to use it for money because they cannot deflate its value. After all, the people of this nation used it for money for almost 200 years and had virtually no inflation until the bankers succeeded in getting it removed from our money.

 

And Jester2112 says why would I sell my silver for paper money. Well first of all, I'm not. I'm changing my paper money into silver. That's why I have silver and you don't. Why would I want to keep money that becomes worth less every day? I don't. I change my paper into silver regularly as I accumulate the fraudulent stuff. Second of all, I am giving it away in caches! I don't want your paper money.

 

There is no scam. It is simply an effort to get people who don't even think about it to question what money is and how and why it works. You will be amazed at the fraud you discover that is being worked upon the people of our nation. The national debt would not be exploding if they had stuck with constitutional gold and silver backed money instead of letting the FED print it out of thin air beginning in 1964 when they robbed the people of the nation by replacing thier silver coins with nickel/copper slugs.

 

It seems to me that ju66l3r is the smartest among you. He uses rational thought instead of emotional criticism. Yes, the ignorant think it is a scam when they realize that the cost of a silver liberty is more than the spot price of silver. Well guess what. The cost of a can of corn is more than the market price of corn by the semi load, too! And so is every other commodity on the face of the earth. You can only get silver bullion at market price in 500 ounce bars. Try it and see. I will buy every silver liberty any of you can find at spot plus 25 cents. Any takers?

 

No, the silver liberty is NOT a scam. It is an alternative currency that is being used as such at thousands of stores nation wide. It functions EXACTLY as historic US silver coins did. Do you think there was 50 cents worth of silver in a pre-1964 half dollar? There never was. Even the US government could not mint coins at a loss. The moment the value of the silver 50 cent piece went above 50 cents, everyone stopped spending them at the grocery store because they were worth more than 50 cents. The same thing will happen to the $10 silver liberty piece when the value of the paper government money falls to the point that it takes more than a $10 bill to purchase the one ounce of silver.

 

Scam? I think not. Misunderstood? Definitely. No, I am not out to make money. I'm trying to get you to stay away from that @#$% blue pill. Wake up! But the best motive here is that I am promoting geocaching. What do you think will happen to this sport when people find out that there really are people out here who are giving away silver in geocaches? Personally, I think it is going to explode as people rush to buy GPS units so they can go find it!! And I'm not the only one who is going to be putting silver in caches. RCOs from around the country are going to be doing it as well. The goal is to get as much silver as possible into the hands of the people of our nation before the impending monetary collapse happens. It will help to dampen the ensuing chaos if the people have sometihng of value to use for trade when the paper becomes worthless. History shows that it has done so in nation after nation over the years, and we cannot escape it. It is just a matter of time.

 

Cheers.

 

Ron

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There is only one thing on earth that has intrinsic value and it's not gold or silver. Every war in history has been fought over it; it's the earth itself: Real Estate. And in times of societal collapse, only the good earth will sustain you and your family with its sustenance, but you better have the means to defend it. Sorry, that's the way it is.

 

:ph34r:

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Scam?  I think not.  Misunderstood?  Definitely.  No, I am not out to make money.  I'm trying to get you to stay away from that @#$% blue pill.  Wake up!  But the best  motive here is that I am promoting geocaching.  What do you think will happen to this sport when people find out that there really are people out here who are giving away silver in geocaches?  Personally, I think it is going to explode as people rush to buy GPS units so they can go find it!!  And I'm not the only one who is going to be putting silver in caches.  RCOs from around the country are going to be doing it as well.  The goal is to get as much silver as possible into the hands of the people of our nation before the impending monetary collapse happens.  It will help to dampen the ensuing chaos if the people have sometihng of value to use for trade when the paper becomes worthless.  History shows that it has done so in nation after nation over the years, and we cannot escape it.  It is just a matter of time.

 

Cheers.

 

Ron

I certainly don't mean this to sound negative, but honestly I didn't get into geocaching to find silver, gold, platinum or even moon rocks. I got into geocaching to find geocaches...to get my butt off the couch and out into the woods.

 

I've been around here long enough that I think the majority of geocachers probably fall into the same camp as I do. To imply that silver or gold or "real treasure" motivates us misses the point of why we do this and (quite frankly) is just a tad insulting. If I want wealth I'll find my own wealth. All I want is to go outside and play.

 

Bret

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Liberty dollars are not legal tender. That's the one and only reason banks won't take them. I can't go in with a Troy Oz of Gold or Silver and do any banking. That same banker might make a side deal with me though.

 

The value of silver goes up and down, but then the value is measured in legal tender which happens to be US Dollars in this country.

 

Ignoring the issue of 'real money' if enough people accept them then whether or not they are legal tender they are a medium of exchange and would be defacto money. The liberty dollars are not a scam. They advertise exactly what they are and hope people will like them and start using them. I think the real goal (and this is my opinion) is to get the USA to go back to a gold standard by demonstrating the success of the liberty dollars.

 

I'd love to find one as a FTF. I like all kinds of coins in caches, be it geo, liberty, or foreign.

Edited by Renegade Knight

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Try spending one at a store. The poor store that does take one in exchange for goods and trys to deposit one in a bank is in for a big surprise! May be worth the price of silver, but that's it!

 

I smell a pyramid scheme here! The only ones who are going to make money are the guys spreading these things around and getting merchants to by into accepting them.

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... The only ones who are going to make money are the guys spreading these things around...

I just read their site and read the spot price of silver.

 

They charge 107 for 100.00 of Liberty Dollars. The spot price of silver is about 7.50 a troy oz. Since all I have to work with is the Silver Coin valued at 10.70 US You are buying 7.50 in silver for $10.70, not a good buy for a coin because you are dumping about 30% of your buying power. The paper I'd not trust until I could walk in and exchange it for silver. Even then I'd want to see someone like a Swiss Bank behind it and not an individual.

 

To put it into perspctive I spent $20.00 on the Alaska Silver Geocoin. I seldom see silver coins sold for anything less than almost 3 times the spot price.

 

Still, I would like to find one in a cache.

Edited by Renegade Knight

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Scam?  I think not.  Misunderstood?  Definitely.  No, I am not out to make money.  I'm trying to get you to stay away from that @#$% blue pill.  Wake up!  But the best  motive here is that I am promoting geocaching.  What do you think will happen to this sport when people find out that there really are people out here who are giving away silver in geocaches?  Personally, I think it is going to explode as people rush to buy GPS units so they can go find it!!  And I'm not the only one who is going to be putting silver in caches.  RCOs from around the country are going to be doing it as well.  The goal is to get as much silver as possible into the hands of the people of our nation before the impending monetary collapse happens.  It will help to dampen the ensuing chaos if the people have sometihng of value to use for trade when the paper becomes worthless.  History shows that it has done so in nation after nation over the years, and we cannot escape it.  It is just a matter of time.

 

Cheers.

 

Ron

I certainly don't mean this to sound negative, but honestly I didn't get into geocaching to find silver, gold, platinum or even moon rocks. I got into geocaching to find geocaches...to get my butt off the couch and out into the woods.

 

I've been around here long enough that I think the majority of geocachers probably fall into the same camp as I do. To imply that silver or gold or "real treasure" motivates us misses the point of why we do this and (quite frankly) is just a tad insulting. If I want wealth I'll find my own wealth. All I want is to go outside and play.

 

Bret

I understand completely the sentiment of geocaching. My own list of found caches is growing steadily. It is a great concept and I love the hikes through the woods and the challenge of the hunt. Best of all is the excitement on the faces of the kids when we get a chache with toys in it. That's worth more than silver or gold to them.

 

My last intention is to pervert a great new sport, and if that is what this turns into, I will cease, but I don't think that is what will happen. I am introducing a new element of interest. That and nothing more.

 

After speaking at length this morning with an RCO North of Detroit, we have arrived at a solution to some of the problems plaguing my placement of silver in or near the caches. Stay tuned. Silver caches are poised to explode nation wide, and there WILL be a one ounce gold cache coming soon! Southwest Michigan just happens to be the proving ground for perfecting the idea.

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. Silver caches are poised to explode nation wide,

uh, I think exploding silver caches violates the guidelines.... B)

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. Silver caches are poised to explode nation wide,

uh, I think exploding silver caches violates the guidelines.... :rolleyes:

You are right. It would have been better phrased thusly;

 

The number of silver caches being placed nationwide is set to explode!

 

I hope some are placed near you so you can get a shot at them.

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lrgoodger:

 

I noticed you have left your silvers as trade items at a few caches you have found. But you left them outside of and not in the cache itself. Why do you complain in your logs for those caches that people are taking the silvers and not logging them? If you trade for an item, you should leave your item INSIDE the cache, not outside. Leave them outside the cache and they are fair game for anybody to find and take!

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The value of silver goes up and down, but then the value is measured in legal tender which happens to be US Dollars in this country.

 

Actually, the term "Legal Tender" meant you were bartering and trading in marijuana back when it was originally initiated, but since it's weight/worth has far surpassed that of gold and silver, it's no longer relevant either. :laughing:

 

Although I think that alterior motives are definately present, what's the difference? How many of you have frantically grabbed your stuff and ran when you saw a new listing with a rare geocoin in it? :laughing:

 

Also, having dealt with the woodland creatures and their teeth, plastic can be chewed through no matter what kind of plastic it is. If a squirell thinks there is something interesting or tasty on the other side of a kevlar flak jacket, it'll chew a hole through it to find out. :laughing:

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Good! We like exploding numbers much better than exploding caches! :laughing:

We also don't like Caches being Exploded when the FBI thinks they are suspicious

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I looked for one of his caches, didn't find it, I'm still pretty new, I just wanted to find some caches, then I read some more online. I thought he was leaving old silver coins like some peace dollars or something, but upon further reading I've quit looking for his caches since 2 have been disabled. I might look for em if I was there just for the hunt, but it seems none of them stay in place long enough for that.

 

I was at another cache where he left a "code" for the silver nearby according to his find log, but I didn't even think about looking for it, I just signed the log and left.

 

He even sent me an email to thank me for looking for it, but after seeing what Lost Scouts posted, especially about the 800 number being advertised I'm no longer interested because it no longer seems to be about the caches. I don't wanna go out and look for codes for coins, and try to "claim" some silver, I just wanna find some caches I could care less about silver. I didn't get into this sport to look for "treasure" I've got a metal detector for that.

 

Just place some caches that aren't gonna get destoryed and I'll be happy. I'd probably leave the silver behind I could care less I have yet to do any actual trading in a cache besides Travel Bugs.

Edited by Tsmola

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We went out and looked for one of his caches ,and found it! Sent him the code number and now we are watching the mail for our coin to arrive :o Had fun getting the nano cache from it's location.

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Liberty dollars are not legal tender. That's the one and only reason banks won't take them. I can't go in with a Troy Oz of Gold or Silver and do any banking. That same banker might make a side deal with me though.

This isn't exactly correct. Liberty Dollars are legal tender, it's just that the things lrgoodger has are apparently not dollars, but silver rounds, and I'm basing my statement on his avatar since I haven't actually seen one of his, or even a picture of one.

 

A true Liberty Dollar, whether it be a Seated Liberty, Draped Bust, Morgan, Peace, or the presently minted Walking Liberty or Silver Eagle, all can be taken to any bank, and the bank must accept the coin as legal tender. The only way that won't happen is when there is some young kid working as a teller who has never seen one before, this happens a lot, I guess.

 

The bank must give you one dollar in exchange, although the silver content makes it worth much more. I buy one or two SAE's (Silver American Eagles) each year and pay a little over bullion value. As money it's worth a dollar, as bullion it's worth spot price of silver bullion.

 

The silver rounds, on the other hand, are not money and the bank cannot buy or exchange them. They are however worth bullion value to anyone else who will buy them from you. Any coin shop will pay you near spot even if a bank won't. It's bullion though, not a dollar. If silver suddenly became worthless, the rounds would be a hunk of metal but the true Liberty dollars would still be worth a dollar.

 

I would have no problem finding either silver dollars or silver rounds in any cache since they have equal value as silver, but not as money. However I'd pass on redeeming coupons for them, that's not why I play this game.

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cachew nut, I think we are on the same page in that the Liberty Dollar in question is what you are calling a Silver Round. Their homepage calls them Liberty Dollars which is different from Liberty Dollars as you describe them.

 

Either kind I'd like to find in a cache.

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Genuine US coins, at least modern ones, will contain the words "IN GOD WE TRUST" (national motto of the United States), "LIBERTY" and "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA".

 

However that is no guarantee since some people do produce fakes. By law, all fakes must have the word "COPY" somewhere on the coin, if it resembes a genuine coin. Anyone making replicas of genuine US coins without the word "COPY" on the coin is going down. Sometimes its hidden on the outside rim to stay legal while still fooling the gullible.

 

Just calling a silver round a Liberty dollar might or might not be illegal depending if you try passing one off as real money, or not. However, it is factually incorrect to do so. Trading silver rounds is probably OK as long as they are not being passed off as genuine money.

 

If you are going to play the money game, it's just best to know your money. Want to have some fun? Go buy a pop at McD's and pay for it with Kennedy half dollars or a two dollar bill. The look on the kid's face who is working the register is priceless.

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YEP! Got it today and it looks great! It is worth the trip and hard effort I went through to get the cache!

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