First Of Next Generation Gps Satellites Launched

[WH]

CNN article.

[+OHMIKY]

Well now - it makes me wonder about how the GPSr will handle the new data - will we need to upgrade (update) our equipment to take advantage of the new signals? Depends on whether this folds seamlessly into the existing tech or adds a new layer. If the latter, it could be a real windfall for GPSr manufacturers.

 

Does anyone have links to technical info about how the new signals are added?

[+roygpa]

Just great! Now with better protection against jamming and improved Ionic atmosphere interference compensation, I'm all out of excuses for my frequent DNF's.

 

All kidding aside, thanks for the link.

 

Roy

[+zoltig]

Well now - it makes me wonder about how the GPSr will handle the new data - will we need to upgrade (update) our equipment to take advantage of the new signals? Depends on whether this folds seamlessly into the existing tech or adds a new layer. If the latter, it could be a real windfall for GPSr manufacturers.

 

Does anyone have links to technical info about how the new signals are added?

From the article:

The Lockheed Martin-built satellite, dubbed GPS IIR-M, is the first in a series of eight new spacecraft designed to provide stronger signal strength, better protection against jamming and additional signals for both military and civilian users.

 

I would assume (you know what that means) that it would work with existing units but I am speculating that an online upgrade would be required.

[+SkyRattlers]

It'll be years before we need to worry about how our GPS receivers will handle the new data. As it said in the article many more satellites with the new tech need to be launched before it will be any use. And the current launch was delayed 6 months from it's original launch time.

[ertyu]

After they test the first one, they have several (7?) more ready for launch.

[+TeamAO]

The way it looks from the article. We may be getting better reception.

 

That is a good thing, but how much better can it get. I usually have a +/- 10 feet.

[WH]

My reception under tree cover rarely gets better than +/- 30 ft.

 

I wonder if the new stronger signal will penetrate leaves any better?

[bogleman]

What really gets you thinking is how many uses there will be associated with the stronger signals. Buy a receiver to track your cat, be able to get signals indoors. Just think about it, the sky is the limit, there could be a GPS receiver on just about everything. I remember finding a $90 pocket calculator in 1980 and I was amazed with what it was able to do (add, subtract, multiply AND divide), it was a shame that MOM would not let me use it to help with the math homework. Now where did I put my car keys - no worry just log onto www.wherearemydarnkeys.com and you can track their current position with your high-tech enabled GPS/PDA/cellphone/MP3/wireless wristwatch. Can you say HELLO Dick Tracy.

[+budd-rdc]

Call me a or a but I'm always skeptical of "advances" in technology, since it's usually a double-edged sword.

 

Stronger signal --> need for smaller antenna --> more stealthy tracking devices

 

How about a stronger shield for our Bill of Rights?

 

For Geocaching, maybe this will result in better reception under tree cover. I'm not so sure for reception in cities with tall buildings, because stronger signals will still bounce.

Edited September 27, 2005 by budd-rdc

[+Onemadfool]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/09/26/r...h.ap/index.html

 

Found this very interesting...

 

Onemadfool

[WH]

Isn't that the same article linked at the start of the thread?

[rynd]

One of the biggest benefits to nonmilitary users is the addition of a second civilian signal,

 

That means a new GPSr to be able to use it.

[Keystone]

Onemadfool had started another duplicate thread, so I merged it into this one.

[+ODragon]

My reception under tree cover rarely gets better than +/- 30 ft.

 

I wonder if the new stronger signal will penetrate leaves any better?

From here:

 

The following are the things that interest geocachers:

 

higher-power, more-efficient transmitters...

The improvements will provide greater accuracy, added resistance to interference and enhanced performance for all users

 

I'm hoping that as they go up, tree cover will bother signal less and less!

[tossedsalad]

Does anyone actually know if we will need new GPS receivers to make use of the *new* civilian signal this satellite provides? The article says it is on a new frequency.

[JohnX]

I'm glad I use my GPS for navigation and am not a Panda.

 

See why in this story: Pandas and GPS

[+beejay&esskay]

Does anyone actually know if we will need new GPS receivers to make use of the *new* civilian signal this satellite provides? The article says it is on a new frequency.

I read another article that says the some of the new GPS's can use the new frequency but the old ones won't.

 

I don't know how you know if yours will...but I'm guessing mine won't.

[+Glenn]

Does anyone actually know if we will need new GPS receivers to make use of the *new* civilian signal this satellite provides?

Unless your GPSr is able to "tune" to the new frequency then I'd say yes. You'll need to buy a new GPSr to take advantage of new functionabliliy associated with the new signal. The article says it is on a new frequency. I assume the new frequency is for increased accuracy (i.e. Your GPSr can compare the solutions for both frequencies and determine an average) and resistance to interference (i.e. if something is blocking or reducing the signal on one frequency your GPSr can "switch" to the other freq). The higher-power portion should be usable right away. Although I wouldn't think it would be very noticeable untill they more than just one satellite up there.

[WH]

The new satellite won't come online until the end of the year.

[Shoobie & the Sand Crabs]

Well then it is a good thing my coordinates are off!!

[RexBloodman]

To me the article suggests that this sat is another 35 or 47 correction sat for the moment.

[+sTeamTraen]

To me the article suggests that this sat is another 35 or 47 correction sat for the moment.

Having read it twice, I can't work out what it's trying to tell us. (But then, attempting to extract technical meaning from a short article on CNN or a newspaper is rarely fruitful.) It talks about "one of eight" satellites, and you won't get 9-10 satellites above the horizon 24/7 if there are only eight.

 

My bet would be on some sort of WAAS-style enhancement but worldwide - after all, the action in Iraq and Afghanistan is some way from the WAAS and EGNOS coverage areas. I understand that WAAS gets away with a single geostationary satellite because it's mainly aimed at aviation users, but we can all use 6-foot accuracy from time to time (even when nobody's shooting at us) and if you're north of a big hill it can be hard to see the bird.

[tossedsalad]

I can't reread the article, but I am pretty sure what they mean by 1 of 8 is of the new style with the new frequency. The only part I am unsure of is whether our current receivers will work on this new frequency. So we may not see much improvement other than improved signal strength under tree cover.

[tossedsalad]

Does anyone actually know if we will need new GPS receivers to make use of the *new* civilian signal this satellite provides?

Unless your GPSr is able to "tune" to the new frequency then I'd say yes. You'll need to buy a new GPSr to take advantage of new functionabliliy associated with the new signal.

 

But then that's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

 

We can all give educated guesses, but I was asking if anyone knew for sure. One thing they make clear is that the new frequency will help minmize distortion from the ionosphere. I assume this is because different frequencies are affected differently, so the distortion can be estimated and coorected.

 

I guess we'll have to check with our manufacturers since this does not seem to be public knowledge at this time.

[rynd]

Does anyone actually know if we will need new GPS receivers to make use of the *new* civilian signal this satellite provides? The article says it is on a new frequency.

 

I haven't read this all the way through but you might find the answer here.The Modernized L2 Civil Signal

[+WhiskyJuliet]

I think that the sat is already helping...??? Yesterday I was getting reception at my desk at work while putting in some lunchtime caches when I would never get reception due to the large metal roof. I used to be able to even SEE any sats much less lock on them. Just an observation.

[+TeamRJJO]

Does anyone actually know if we will need new GPS receivers to make use of the *new* civilian signal this satellite provides?

Unless your GPSr is able to "tune" to the new frequency then I'd say yes. You'll need to buy a new GPSr to take advantage of new functionabliliy associated with the new signal. The article says it is on a new frequency. I assume the new frequency is for increased accuracy (i.e. Your GPSr can compare the solutions for both frequencies and determine an average) and resistance to interference (i.e. if something is blocking or reducing the signal on one frequency your GPSr can "switch" to the other freq). The higher-power portion should be usable right away. Although I wouldn't think it would be very noticeable untill they more than just one satellite up there.

The second civil frequency allows for real-time correction of ionospheric delay. The receivers 99.9% of us are using -- since they are single-frequency -- must use pre-programed models to make these corrections. These models aren't as accurate as the dual-frequency correction method.

 

Everyone should check the documentation that came with their receiver, but it's highly doubtful that any of us have a receiver that will make use of this second signal at this point.

 

To answer another post -- it's generally 3 weeks from launch to payload turn-on, so the new satellite won't yet be making a difference in anyone's accuracy. That three weeks may be extended in this case due to expanded on-orbit testing of the new satellite features.

 

Peace,

TeamRJJO

[+geognerd]

This new satellite is PRN 17. So once this thing becomes active in a few weeks, we'll see it listed as 17 on the satellite page of our receivers. Am I correct?