Garmin Gmrs Limit In Canada

[+AV Dezign]

I want to get a Rino 530, but I’m confused about a few things...

 

Gamin states that their Rino 530 has a 5 watts/14 miles/22 Kilometers range, but the power is limited to 2 watts/8 miles/13 Kilometers range in Canada.

 

How is this limit made, is this only in Rino’s sold in Canada, or is the GPS smart enought to tell that it’s in Canada and blocks the transmision power?

 

If I buy a Rino from the states, what happens then?

 

Thanks for the help!

[danoshimano]

The limitation is programmed into the unit. If you buy a US model, and bring it to Canada, you will have all the power.

 

I do not know if this is something that can be flash upgraded, that is, if a "crippled" unit can be upgraded to full power.

 

The US unit is probably not approved for use in Canada.

[+Swifteroo]

Yeah,

 

I wonder if one did import a US model into Canada and used it, would there be radio police that would triangulate your location, follow you out to the bush and knock you down along the trail?

 

All joking aside I wonder if, as in HAM radio, there are individuals who police these bands?

[+Olar]

I very much doubt there is anyone policing the GMRS frequencies. I'm afraid that the average FRS/GMRS user will have the same problems develop that happened to the almost dead CB radio craze of the 70's. Illegally boosted CB radios would dominate the airwaves and all the average user could hear was a bunch of noise that originated far, far beyond the legal range. You may think the chatter at a geocache event sometimes gets annoying wait till you hear motor-mouth 30 miles down the road going on and on about nothing just above your factory-set squelch level while you are trying to hear your partner 500 metres away.

 

Olar

[danoshimano]

I'm afraid that the average FRS/GMRS user will have the same problems develop that happened to the almost dead CB radio craze of the 70's.  Illegally boosted CB radios would dominate the airwaves...

Perhaps, but didn't CB radios have a much larger range than 22km? I could be wrong, but I thought they did, which would exacerbate the problem you mention.

 

Then there was the whole hype issue around the things that drove everybody and their brother (and their brother's uncle) onto the CB bands to talk in CB-code about nothing at all. Also, how many channels did they have? (It was that "Convoy" song that really broke things open.)

 

Anyway, it would be nice to get a few more kms out of the radios, and with all the privacy channels, it's not too hard to get away from most of the chatter.

 

I suspect when the laws get changed in Canada, Garmin will offer a flash upgrade to bring the units to their full power.

[danoshimano]

I wonder if one did import a US model into Canada and used it, would there be radio police that would triangulate your location, follow you out to the bush and knock you down along the trail?

I too wondered about getting triangulated. My father used to be a HAM, and I recall several times when a bunch of them where helping authorities to triangulate some offender down.

 

But the radio police would probably just grab you by the arm while saying you were in serious trouble, rather than knock you down.

[+_canadianbacon_]

From what I understand, you have to license GMRS radios in the USA,

 

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/personal/generalmobile/

 

Up here, with the reduced wattage, you do not have to.

 

Yeh, techncially bringing the high power units up here is not legal, but if they can't (or will not) catch illegal fishing, on a river right-in-front-of-them, not sure they haver resources to chase down a stray over-powered radio here and there.

[+Couparangus]

but if they can't (or will not) catch illegal fishing

Having been on the receiving end of "fishing without license" ticket I can assure you that this is enforced. It was pretty harmless fishing for sunfish and rock bass from the shore, but I was guilty of this heinous crime.

But the radio police would probably just grab you by the arm while saying you were in serious trouble, rather than knock you down.

In my experience, arrests are made after several complaints and the Industry Canada inspector will be accompanied by an RCMP officer. All radio-related laws in Canada are federal hence the RCMP involvment. The complaints usually have to be quite serious too. Its not likely that they are going to investigate a complaint of someone cussing on a license-exempt radio. But if you are wantonly causing mischief on a police radio system they'll jump into action. Its also not likely (IMHO) they'll worry too much about someone running 5W on a 2W GMRS band. But at the same time you should be aware that you could be looking at a very steep fine, confiscation of equipment and of course a criminal record (federal law here folks).

the average FRS/GMRS user will have the same problems develop that happened to the almost dead CB radio

It won't be nearly as bad because UHF (FRS/GMRS) frequencies simply don't carry as far as 27MHz CB. There's no sporadic-E skip conditions on UHF so its highly unlikely you'll be able to have communications too far over the horizon. That said, I've heard illegal "FRS" stations using commercial grade 25W mobile radios and higher gain antennas to increase range. If you live in a high-rise apartment you can certainly get city-wide coverage even without a high-powered illegal setup like this.

would there be radio police that would triangulate your location

The G-men, and some radio amateurs too, certainly have access to equipment that can find transmitters. The most popular is the Doppler system, or one of its competitors. It gives very accurate bearing, but the distance is difficult unless the transmitters radiated power is known and the receiver used with the doppler is calibrated. There is one model I've seen that will give range. Its basically 2 doppler systems used together and calculates the triangulation.

All joking aside I wonder if, as in HAM radio, there are individuals who police these bands?

Oh, no doubt! Being a ham I've done some radio direction finding myself locating sources of "interference" on VHF. Almost always the culprit is male, in their 20s or 30s, unemployed, living with Mum & Dad, or in subsidized housing. There's often a drug or alcohol component, lower intellect and self-esteem issues involved.

 

Speaking of these types, its probably a good idea to let your kids know that they should never divulge their location or any information for that matter, to anyone they don't know on a FRS/GMRS (or CB) radio!

 

Cheers!

C-A

[+PDOP's]

Aren't you more likely to be nabbed when you register the warranty with a Canadian address? IIRC people use to get caught for GST/PST by doing this.

[+V-I-cacher]

you could choose not to register the warranty

[+AV Dezign]

Aren't you more likely to be nabbed when you register the warranty with a Canadian address? IIRC people use to get caught for GST/PST by doing this.

Wait a minute, why would they nab you for this? How do they know how you would make use of it, you could use it in the states but live in Canada, you could work in the States and reside in Canada, you can geocache in the states and use the GMRS and Geocache in Canada and use the FRS channels. How can they prove that you would use it illegaly or not?

 

I doubt very much that there would be any nabbing involved here on the part of Garmin. They did their job by not making this product available in Canada, anything beyond that is none of their concerns, or for that matter, none of their business. They are not the police or the goverment.

[+Old Sailor]

Probably nothing will happen, unless it throws a lotof interference on some other device ie: TV's etc and it happens to the same person continously, they complain to the DOC/MOC who can then search for said interference. THEN???

[+Newfiezedder]

Triangulation is one thing, but lets not forget that you could also be broadcasting your loaction out if the option is on. Would make you real easy to find.

[+Riverside]

1. It is illegal to used the all the GMRS channels in the US, low and high powered without a license but not illegal to own a Rino or use one in the US. Simply turn off the GMRS when crossing the border and use the FRS ones.

2. In Canada one can use the FRS or GMRS low channels without a license.

3. It is not illegal to own a Rino 530 built in the United States. It is illegal however to use the high powered GMRS channels in Canada without a license. You can get a license for them. But you will be licensed only to use the channels not used by existing services.

Bring it the country and turn the high powered channels off until you get a license or until the laws changed, which will be soon.

 

Spetrum Managament Canada has sent notices out to existing users about the change and possibly interference because of what they call "graymarket" units.

(not Blackmarket)

 

Spetrum Managament Canada GMRS.

 

Table 1 - GMRS and FRS Frequencies

462.550 GMRS 467.550 GMRS

462.5625 (1-FRS) GMRS/FRS Shared 467.5625 (8-FRS)

462.5750 GMRS 467.5750 GMRS

462.5875 (2-FRS) GMRS/FRS Shared 467.5875 (9-FRS)

462.6000 GMRS 467.6000 GMRS

462.6125 (3-FRS) GMRS/FRS Shared 467.6125 (10-FRS)

462.6250 GMRS 467.6250 GMRS

462.6375 (4-FRS) GMRS/FRS Shared 467.6375 (11-FRS)

462.6500 GMRS 467.6500 GMRS

462.6625 (5-FRS) GMRS/FRS Shared 467.6625 (12-FRS)

462.6750 GMRS 467.6750 GMRS

462.6875 (6-FRS) GMRS/FRS Shared 467.6875 (13-FRS)

462.7000 GMRS 467.7000 GMRS

462.7125 (7-FRS) GMRS/FRS Shared 467.7125 (14-FRS)

462.7250 GMRS 467.7250 GMRS

 

3. The Impact of GMRS Radios on Existing Land Mobile Service Users

The frequencies set out in Table 1 for GMRS radios, are currently assigned to the land mobile service. (Footnote 2)The 16 new frequencies identified for GMRS radios currently accommodate a large number of land mobile. The Department’s licensing database indicates that there are approximately 127 mobile licensees across Canada, operating 108 base stations and 4590 mobile devices on the 16 newly- designated proposed GMRS frequencies. (Footnote 3)

 

The existing land mobile users in the 16 new frequencies include those licensees who provide critical communication services for hospital, public safety, public utility and transportation purposes. In the case of hospitals and health care facilities these frequencies are used for medical telemetry purposes such as heart monitors. Consequently, the Department has sent a notice to hospitals and health centres to advise of the potential for interference to medical telemetry equipment from gray market GMRS radios.

 

COMING SOON

In anticipation of GMRS radios being permitted for sale in Canada, the Department has ceased licensing the land mobile service in the frequencies identified in Table 1 for GMRS radios. With the release of this policy, the Department is officially announcing a licensing moratorium for the land mobile service in those 16 frequencies. Upon the introduction of GMRS radios, mobile service operation in these frequencies will have similar status to licence-exempt GMRS radios. As such, land mobile licensees that choose to remain in these frequencies may receive interference and may not claim protection.

Edited October 8, 2005 by Riverside

[rynd]

, and with all the privacy channels, it's not too hard to get away from most of the chatter.

 

couparanus

 

Could you please explain PL. tones, the way the so called "Privacy Tones /Privacy Channels" work, and the interference thier misuse can cause. I would try but I'm not very good at explaining things. Mabe it just me but I think it almost crimanal and it is definatly deceitfull the way Frs/Gmrs is marketed at least here in the US.

 

Thanks

 

KE4UUU

[+Team Rubicons]

I very much doubt there is anyone policing the GMRS frequencies. I'm afraid that the average FRS/GMRS user will have the same problems develop that happened to the almost dead CB radio craze of the 70's. Illegally boosted CB radios would dominate the airwaves and all the average user could hear was a bunch of noise that originated far, far beyond the legal range. You may think the chatter at a geocache event sometimes gets annoying wait till you hear motor-mouth 30 miles down the road going on and on about nothing just above your factory-set squelch level while you are trying to hear your partner 500 metres away.

 

Olar

The nice thing about the Rino radio is the fact that you do have the squeltch adjustment for starters. The Second item is that you can individually set each radio channel to include a "Frequency Code" that is exclusive to you and fellow users. So for instance, a typical radio channel, lets say channel 12 on FRS, can be fragmented into an additional 17 sub codes or 12x17. from there you can also enable a voice scrambler that will make your traffic unrecognizable to anyone else that may happen onto your channel and your sub code.

 

The scary thing is...... if criminals catch onto this they could almost work in stealth mode at very long distances over one of the repeater channels and scramble it so big brother cant easedrop. In addition the Rino 530 can also send text messages between units over the FRS/GMRS radio!!!!! which can be totally encrypted based on your radio settings!