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Open Carry In The Woods


gudel
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Looking at some pics in interesting caches, I notice that most people geocaching in the woods, deep in the woods. Some people found a certain "special" plant cultivation area, usually the greenthumbs are thugs too.

 

Who here carry guns while geocaching in the woods? Animals is the least I'm afraid of, drug dealers or other two legged critters are the most I'm worried. I use my HK USP45 with USP9 as backup, or the Beretta 92FS sometimes as backup.

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As a gun owner I believe this is a topic that belongs on a gun site, certainly not here. I have seen threads like this started on other sites and they are always started to promote an agenda. It will only degenerate into the pro-gun people quoting NRA propaganda and saying carrying is their God-given right, while the anti-gun people call them Bambi killers and criminals.

 

Please don't do this here.

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As a gun owner I believe this is a topic that belongs on a gun site, certainly not here.

I agree.

 

Do you really want to run into a family looking for the same cache while openly carrying? They might think you're a bad two legged critter.

Edited by hacked0ff
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I pack heat every time I go caching. Joe is 6'1" of lean, mean fighting machine. He's a killer, I tell you! Just ask him.

Ox from "Stripes" just came to mind. :D

 

Being 6'1" and two hundred something, I don't have that much trouble. And being in Texas, you never know who's toating and who isn't. ... To answer the topic, mine is in the glove box of the truck. I've only taken it out once and that was a night cache and I was on the side of the road. A truck came up and slowed down. They were just making sure I wasn't in some kind of trouble. Just down home people. :lol:

 

;)

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Please keep in mind that has been debated in the past, though not very recently. See this thread for the most recent discussion, and how it ended.

 

If the discussion is about those who decide to carry, that is one thing. However if it turns into a debate in the same vain as the last one, it will be closed. As someone suggested, there are other sites to argue the ethics of carrying a gun, this is not one of them.

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Being a gun owner, I never felt the need to carry when geocaching....

 

If you need protection (other than your size or big dog), pepper spray is probably sufficient....

 

As others have stated... Discussion is not needed here because of pro/anti gun issues... Do what you are comfortable with, above all be responsible....

 

IF you encounter cultivated area, quietly turn around and walk away as fast as you can.

 

Dale

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I'm one of the don't carry people. Been hiking and backpacking in the Oregon and Washington Cascades for well over 30 years. I don't own, and never owned a handgun. Owned a rifle and shotgun for a few years. One I stopped hunting animals, I sold them. I'm not anti gun. Note anti hunting. In fact I believe that large preditors need to be hunted to maintain the fear of man. I just don't see the need to carry the extra weight when I'm hiking, backpack, or geocaching. A hand gun will not stop a bear. If I pull a gun on a person, my opinion is that I've greatly increased the probability of my own early demise. My opinion has nothing to do with the right to carry or animal rights, or .... Just an opinion on the need to carry.

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Geocaching has taken me to some remote parts of southern Arizona, and I carry a holstered .357 in those remote places. There are critters, smugglers and situations in which the firearm might come in handy. The likelyhood of an uncomfortable encounter with a family out for a casual walk, who might misidentify me as a bad guy and get the heebie-jeebies, is vanishingly small.

 

That said, expect this thread to quickly turn into a political debate about gun ownership and self-defense. Without any local knowledge, the "anti" side of the debate will accuse you of cowardice (ala the cartoon interlude in Fahrenheit 911) or murderous intent. Level-headed sportsmen and law-enforcement types will come to your defense, only to be drowned out in a bunch of inanity.

 

Fortunately, the thread will get locked pretty quickly. I'm forecasting the process in hopes of accelerating it so that we get to the inevitable lock as soon as possible.

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Looking at some pics in interesting caches, I notice that most people geocaching in the woods, deep in the woods. Some people found a certain "special" plant cultivation area, usually the greenthumbs are thugs too.

 

Who here carry guns while geocaching in the woods? Animals is the least I'm afraid of, drug dealers or other two legged critters are the most I'm worried. I use my HK USP45 with USP9 as backup, or the Beretta 92FS sometimes as backup.

GET OUT THE STICK. This topic is so old and is so open to flaming I'll just let it pass.

cheers

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Those of us who have been around the forums for a long time have seen this topic "cussed and discussed" many time. This post by BrianSnat last December points out some of previous discussions. As a cursory glance will show you, these discussions often get heated and out of hand quickly.

 

The knee-jerk response would be simply to lock the thread down before that happens again. However, my take at the moment is, "Where's the new information?" I don't see this thread bringing anything new to the table that the previous ones didn't also bring.

 

To the Original Poster: Take a look at the previous threads. I think you'll find the information you want there. I'll let you decide if you want to close this one down. If things get out of hand again, the mods will take care of it.

 

Bret

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Most of the time I don't carry. I've long since figured out if my gun is in my pack, I won't be able to have it ready in time for it to do me any good. Once I do figure out a way to carry discretely so it is handy I'll probably carry more often.

 

Overall though I tend to cache in groups and really have only encountered drunk rednecks in the woods 'gathering firewood' at 1 am. I've never had a problem, though some people have.

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Geocaching has taken me to some remote parts of southern Arizona, and I carry a holstered .357 in those remote places. There are critters, smugglers and situations in which the firearm might come in handy. The likelyhood of an uncomfortable encounter with a family out for a casual walk, who might misidentify me as a bad guy and get the heebie-jeebies, is vanishingly small.

 

That said, expect this thread to quickly turn into a political debate about gun ownership and self-defense. Without any local knowledge, the "anti" side of the debate will accuse you of cowardice (ala the cartoon interlude in Fahrenheit 911) or murderous intent. Level-headed sportsmen and law-enforcement types will come to your defense, only to be drowned out in a bunch of inanity.

 

Fortunately, the thread will get locked pretty quickly. I'm forecasting the process in hopes of accelerating it so that we get to the inevitable lock as soon as possible.

:D Why are you so wishy-washy? Just come right out and take a position!

The funniest thing about your post is the irony of your use of the word "inanity."

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Don't take this the wrong way but I carry every day (part of my job); but I think, you the OP are a little overly concerned/obsessed. Your brain is the best weapon that you have - a firearm is a tool of LAST RESORT. It is nice to be able to do what you do but how is your competency level? Do you train on a regular basis; can you hit what you are aiming at? I am a firearms instructor, and trust me I have seen way too many folks who carry and you would stand a better chance of getting hit by a car than one of their bullets. This isn’t the good old west. If you carry, carry concealed - COMPLETELY, you are just asking for trouble having your tools displayed, not to mention all the legal trouble you will be in if you do happen to use it. Do you have the money to defend yourself? When you shoot someone things just don’t stop like in the movies unless you are fortunate to take out the CNS (which anyone is unlikely to be able to do that), talk to someone who has been shot, or in a shooting they can attest to this fact – animals act the same way. Enough of the rambling, do what you want just be careful.

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I made the mistake of dedicating far too much time on this topic previously. (I am not a gun owner -- I have handled guns in several form-factors with the exception of automatic weapons which are banned in Canada).

 

There tends to be a great deal of emotion on both sides of the debate that prevents a discussion progressing very far beyond psudo-empiracal evidence. it tends to be "one time I was...." "I heard of a guy that....." blah, blah, blah....

 

I'd just say that you should do what you feel is right for you and live with the consequences.

Edited by Lemon Fresh Dog
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I enjoy shooting although I am not a hunter. As far as Geocahing goes, if it is taking me to a place that I feel I might need a firearm, I'm not going.

 

Regarding the aforementioned agricultural issue, most large-scale "cultivators" have staked out thier property beforehand and would recognize if there is any regular traffic in the area. The possibility of our group meeting thier group is so remote I would not worry about it at all.

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Don't take this the wrong way but I carry every day (part of my job); but I think, you the OP are a little overly concerned/obsessed. Your brain is the best weapon that you have - a firearm is a tool of LAST RESORT. It is nice to be able to do what you do but how is your competency level? Do you train on a regular basis; can you hit what you are aiming at? I am a firearms instructor, and trust me I have seen way too many folks who carry and you would stand a better chance of getting hit by a car than one of their bullets. This isn’t the good old west. If you carry, carry concealed - COMPLETELY, you are just asking for trouble having your tools displayed, not to mention all the legal trouble you will be in if you do happen to use it. Do you have the money to defend yourself? When you shoot someone things just don’t stop like in the movies unless you are fortunate to take out the CNS (which anyone is unlikely to be able to do that), talk to someone who has been shot, or in a shooting they can attest to this fact – animals act the same way. Enough of the rambling, do what you want just be careful.

And don't forget if you were to shoot yourself or a member of your caching party in a remote location.

 

I do sit on the fence on this topic but feel that the "nature" of the orignal post was stated in a poor verbage. Perhaps a thread of "do you feel that firearms are necessary in geocaching" or " has anyone had to kill an animal that posed a threat to them while caching". Ya see its all in the way that the question is posed.

 

My .02 is free.

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As a gun owner I believe this is a topic that belongs on a gun site, certainly not here. I have seen threads like this started on other sites and they are always started to promote an agenda. It will only degenerate into the pro-gun people quoting NRA propaganda and saying carrying is their God-given right,  while the anti-gun people call them Bambi killers and criminals.

 

Please don't do this here.

I don't think this thread is off topic at all. He's asking if people carry a gun while they geocache. It's no different then asking people if they like to GC with a dog, a backpack, camera, their kids, a tortoise named 'Alan', or any other of the dozens of things featured in: 'do you______while you cache' threads.

Edited by Sonoran Privateers
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Lets start by clarifying where "open carry" is even legal:

 

From http://www.opencarry.org

opencarrymap.png

 

We wont debate open carry vs concealed, since that's better suited for a forum like http://www.packing.org .

 

My (often stated :D) position is a firearm is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

By itself, it is incapable of doing anything, just like a hammer or a car or a first aid kit.

In the hands of a properly trained person, all of those things are quite safe, and very useful. In the hands of the wrong person, they could all be harmful.

 

Carrying a gun for self defense is the same as having a first aid kit, airbag, or fire extinguisher. You never know when you will need them, and you hope and pray you NEVER need them; but if the time ever comes when you do need any one of those items, it could mean the difference between living and dieing.

Just like the first aid kit, or the airbag, you just cant predict when you might need a gun. People get in car accidents pulling out of their driveway, driving in nice neighborhoods, and on the way to or from geocaches. Even in the safest neighborhood, a drunk drive can change your life forever.

 

So it is with a firearm. Bad people don't just work in bad neighborhoods. Vicious animals don't know the difference between a nice park and a not so nice one.

Many times there are other solutions to the incident other then a firearm. A stick, pepper spray or alarm MAY work. But if the time ever comes when nothing else can save your life but a firearm, you and/or your family members may die because you didn't carry one.

 

If you can legally carry a firearm (in most states in the USA that means you have passed both state and federal background checks and taken safety training), and feel comfortable doing so; you should do it all the time. Just like a first aid kit, an airbag, or a fire extinguisher, you never know when it may save your life.

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I never carry open. It's not legal here. I am a sporadic cacher, and a sporadic CCWer, and sometimes those intersect, but not often. I'm still finding relatively easy caches nearby; I haven't ventured too deep into the woods yet, but when I do, I will pack, since there have been a lot of meth labs reported and/or rumored in my neck of Washington the last couple years, and I'm not taking any chances.

 

ed to add: I pack a Makarov in an IWB or a shoulder holster, or in a fanny pack if the weather is too warm to conceal under clothing easily.

Edited by Nyarlotep
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Animals is the least I'm afraid of, drug dealers or other two legged critters are the most I'm worried.

I hope you can aim better than you can write. Yes, I am being a smart a**.

 

I have no problems with people owning or carring guns. The thing I find most interesting is the fact that one should only point a gun at someone if they are prepared to take that person's life. There's no bluffing with a gun.

 

It is very east to sit a computer and banter back and forth. Bravado is easy at a computer terminal. I have read several threads about guns and caching. They all are about the same. "I carry and will kill anyone that crosses me." Yada, yada.

 

I saw a move entitled, A Bronx tale and in one scene the gangster boss catches some neighborhood kids buying guns. He breaks up the group then he pulls one of them aside. He tells this one kid that having a gun doesn't make you tough. You find out who is tough when the other guy has a gun and you don't. The point is, that if you carry a gun, you better be damm well ready to pull the trigger. You don't want to wet yourself when the other person calls your bluff. ;)

Edited by JoesBar
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As somebody else stated: "I am just not going to go anywhere that would require a gun to defend myself."

 

Yes, I know.......strange world we live in but I still haven't lost a basic trust of your average human being.

 

Besides, I carry a far greater power in my heart......nothing to fear...

 

I think you forgot one word. KNOWINGLY.

 

I just don't get this line of thinking at all.

Do these same people think "I am just not going to drive anywhere that I would get in an automobile accident and need a seatbelt/airbag to keep from going through the windshield."?

Do these same people ever say "I am just not going to hike any place that would require a first aid kit if I fell and sprain my ankle or sliced my hand open."?

Does anyone think "I'm just not going to sleep anyplace that would require a smoke detector to wake me up if there is a fire."

 

Bad things happen to good people every single day. Even to geocachers.

When you are planning what caches to hit, you don't know what cache you are going to total your car leaving. You don't know what cache you are going to slip at and gash your knee on a sharp rock. How come when it comes to protecting yourself from animals, both 4 legged and 2, people seem to think they can predict the future?

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I just don't get this line of thinking at all.

 

Do these same people ever say "I am just not going to hike any place that would require a first aid kit if I fell and sprain my ankle or sliced my hand open."?

Does anyone think "I'm just not going to sleep anyplace that would require a smoke detector to wake me up if there is a fire."

 

How come when it comes to protecting yourself from animals, both 4 legged and 2, people seem to think they can predict the future?

Lets see, airbags, seatbelts, etc. = passive safety devices. Fire alarm, pretty harmless, especially in an idiots hands, and a first aid kit ? Come on Mopar, I've heard some piss-poor pro-gun speeches, but you're REALLY reaching here.

 

Alright, just for the record, theres a 12 gauge riot shotgun, a semi auto with two 25 round clips, and a scoped rifle sitting in my upstairs. I quit hunting after the retards from out of town were shooting past me at deer in the side yard of a home, but I still shoot for fun. NOT anti-gun, or anti-hunting by sensible folks.

 

But advocating a gun for most people is a great way of reducing the moron population of the earth, not the criminals, in my arrogant opinion. Most people aren't going to take the time to become proficient enough to be able to save themselves when the moment arises. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from carrying if you feel its necessary, but don't let someone convince you to get a gun through fear mongering.

 

The drug fields ? If it comes to a gun fight, they arent playing fair. Your pistol and couple of clips is laughable when they are throwing down at you with sawed off shotguns and semi or full auto from rifles. They aren't gonna be popping at you with snub nose pistols folks. Face the reality.

 

Most fields are protected by booby traps anyway. If it is guarded by two leggers, they know you're there WAY too soon for you to get the drop on them.

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Lets see, airbags, seatbelts, etc. = passive safety devices. Fire alarm, pretty harmless, especially in an idiots hands, and a first aid kit ? Come on Mopar, I've heard some piss-poor pro-gun speeches, but you're REALLY reaching here.

 

Alright, just for the record, theres a 12 gauge riot shotgun, a semi auto with two 25 round clips, and a scoped rifle sitting in my upstairs. I quit hunting after the retards from out of town were shooting past me at deer in the side yard of a home, but I still shoot for fun. NOT anti-gun, or anti-hunting by sensible folks.

 

But advocating a gun for most people is a great way of reducing the moron population of the earth, not the criminals, in my arrogant opinion. Most people aren't going to take the time to become proficient enough to be able to save themselves when the moment arises. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from carrying if you feel its necessary, but don't let someone convince you to get a gun through fear mongering.

 

The drug fields ? If it comes to a gun fight, they arent playing fair. Your pistol and couple of clips is laughable when they are throwing down at you with sawed off shotguns and semi or full auto from rifles. They aren't gonna be popping at you with snub nose pistols folks. Face the reality.

 

Most fields are protected by booby traps anyway. If it is guarded by two leggers, they know you're there WAY too soon for you to get the drop on them.

I seat belt requires you to make a conscience decision to wear it.

A fire extinguisher and smoke detectors are (usually) not something that is required by law; you must make the effort to buy/install/maintain them. Then you must have a plan on what to do and how to use them if the need arises. A smoke detector wont get you out of of a burning home by itself. The fire extinguisher wont put out the grease fire unless you activate it and use it properly.

A first aid kit you must go out and buy, and then educate yourself or its little more then a worthless box.

Same with a firearm. You must know how to use (and not use) it properly. In most places you must pass a criminal and mental health check as well as show proof of training, so very few real morons legally carry a gun.

I refuse to believe that normal, law-abiding citizens suddenly turn into trigger-happy murderers in the vicinity of a gun. Normal people with a gun do not shoot people for every little issue; just like normal people with a car don't mow people down and baseball players don't beat people with bats for every little issue.

 

Those who jump through the hoops required to legally carry a gun while geocaching tend to be the type of person who takes that responsibility to heart. Only a small fraction of one percent of people who legally carry a gun commit any sort of crime at all. Compared to something like 3-5% of the general public. They also tend to take the time to be proficient, and most private citizens who regularly carry a gun practice far more then your average police officer.

 

Now, to get this back on the topic of open carry in the woods:

I feel that normally open carry is a bad idea. Concealed carry gives you the element of surprise, and it also doesn't alarm the hoplophobes who are afraid a gun might jump out of your holster and shoot them.

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Well Mopar, honestly, how many times are you encountering muggers in the woods that you need to maintain the element of surprise over ? I would think in all honesty, the greater likelihood of needing a fire arm would be against an animal. So, lets say you ACTUALLY have to pull on an animal, how much time is lost getting to your concealed carry ?

 

QUOTE:

In most places you must pass a criminal and mental health check as well as show proof of training, so very few real morons legally carry a gun.

 

I'm in a relatively small city here. I work in a factory LOADED with morons. The really freaky ones ? They have guns in their cars " cause theres a lotta crazy people out there, ya know ?" Again, I'm not against gun ownership, but I don't believe one little bit that the system keeps the guns from the idiots.

 

And I LOVE this one:

"They also tend to take the time to be proficient, and most private citizens who regularly carry a gun practice far more then your average police officer."

 

Yep, them paper targets you line up on, breath a couple times nice and easy, and slowly squeeze the trigger at are great for preparing to take on the attackers we are evidently going to encounter.

 

You cannot convince me that average Joe is gonna have what it takes to decisively come out on top if by some strange freak chance you wind up against the wall while caching.

By the time you drop your GPS, pull your gun, and decide you REALLY have to shoot someone, the individual has realized its now them or you for sure. They've got the element of surprise on you. You are already behind the power curve. THEY have initiated this encounter, so they have already thought this through. You are playing catch up.

 

Oh yea, and for the heck of it, if I'm caching in Alaska, I'm gonna be loaded for bear.

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A GREAT GUN CONTROL POLICY:

 

1.) Make all guns of all types free for the taking

 

2.) Make bullets cost $5,000 each

 

People would think really hard about shooting one off if they cost this much. You would definately not see innocent bystanders being shot because they're just not "worth" it! ;)

 

Sorry, thought I could add a little light hearted comedy to the situation before it degrades to our usual discussion on this topic causing the thread to be locked.

 

Lighten up folks. It's a caching forum, not a gun control forum. The OP asked a simple question: "Do you "carry" when caching?"

 

I don't. Do you?

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As somebody else stated:  "I am just not going to go anywhere that would require a gun to defend myself."

 

Yes, I know.......strange world we live in but I still haven't lost a basic trust of your average human being.

 

Besides, I carry a far greater power in my heart......nothing to fear...

 

I think you forgot one word. KNOWINGLY.

 

I just don't get this line of thinking at all.

Do these same people think "I am just not going to drive anywhere that I would get in an automobile accident and need a seatbelt/airbag to keep from going through the windshield."?

Do these same people ever say "I am just not going to hike any place that would require a first aid kit if I fell and sprain my ankle or sliced my hand open."?

Does anyone think "I'm just not going to sleep anyplace that would require a smoke detector to wake me up if there is a fire."

 

Bad things happen to good people every single day. Even to geocachers.

When you are planning what caches to hit, you don't know what cache you are going to total your car leaving. You don't know what cache you are going to slip at and gash your knee on a sharp rock. How come when it comes to protecting yourself from animals, both 4 legged and 2, people seem to think they can predict the future?

Seriously, you are comparing a gun to a seat belt??!!?? I am certainly not anti-gun, I just don't see or feel any sort of need to pack one - based on any semi-realistic senario I will ever find myself in.

 

Car accidents I've seen. Been in 2 myself. Fires I've seen. Used extinguishers on them myself. Gun toting criminal threatening me?? Not once in 39 years.

 

Carry if you will or not. I don't. Even the cops will tell you how rare the actual "need" for a weapon is.

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Looking at some pics in interesting caches, I notice that most people geocaching in the woods, deep in the woods. Some people found a certain "special" plant cultivation area, usually the greenthumbs are thugs too.

 

Who here carry guns while geocaching in the woods? Animals is the least I'm afraid of, drug dealers or other two legged critters are the most I'm worried. I use my HK USP45 with USP9 as backup, or the Beretta 92FS sometimes as backup.

I'm a (former) concealed carry instructor and the ones that say they plan to carry a backup weapon usually bear lookin' at.

 

I'm not flaming you. I happen to have a great deal of experience in the firearms and self defense fields. Every person I've seen proudly produce more than 1 weapon has been a bit squirrelly. The worst part was that most were in instructor level classes.

 

I was an instructor for over 7 years and in that time I carried my (5 shot) S&W 642 less than 20 times (prolly less than a dozen) and only ONCE geocaching. Only ONE time that I left my gun at home did I wish I'd brought it and only then for the added feeling of security. I got out of that scrape the right way. I ran.

 

I know the handgun laws of my state well. If I can't defend myself with 5 shots, I won't have time to pull a back-up. A grand jury is sure to indict ANYONE that can't PROVE imminent danger to life in a shooting. The surest way to prove that is for the perp to have a few powder burns decorating his wound(s). Leave the back-up weapon at home. You'll save weight and look less paranoid. If you really need back-up, bring ANOTHER armed person.

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