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Should Urban Micros Be Allowed Anymore?


driven1

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We had one on our todo list yesterday, that was, I believe was the first light post

right in front of the main door of Target, we passed it by. Placements like that I believe are kind of dumb, plus they usually don't last very long.

I figure the cache owner must enjoy constantly replacing hides like that, so I usually just do them and whatever happens happens. If they're muggled often enough, maybe the genius who hid them will pick a better spot next time. :) Long ago I grew tired of wasting my time and gas returning to a location multiple times over because there are constantly people there. Usually I just ignore such lame hides to begin with, which probably makes both me and the cache owner happier in the end.

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up there ^ a ways, someone suggested the litmus test of "If they were doing a documentary on geocaching, would you use the cache as an example?" to determine if a cache should exist.

 

Personally, I prefer the common test: "Would you feel comfortable playing frisbee/hackysack/tag in this location?" What we are doing is no more wrong than any other game, and in the cases of cul de sacs, small parks, parking lots, etc., the answer is YES, I would feel comfortable playing games there (and have done so in many cases).

 

If someone questions your activities, all it takes is a level head and a short explanation to make MOST people ok with geocaching. (I've also had police called for playing hackysack, and the same holds true). :)

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Personally, I prefer the common test: "Would you feel comfortable playing frisbee/hackysack/tag in this location?"  What we are doing is no more wrong than any other game, and in the cases of cul de sacs, small parks, parking lots, etc., the answer is YES, I would feel comfortable playing games there (and have done so in many cases).

It's not a question of legallity, it's a question of perception -- and not yours, but that of the people who are watching you. If you're playing frisbee/hackysack/tag, people can see what you're doing, recognize it for what it is, and don't care. If you're snooping around the back of a building or in bushes near a building, you're obviously NOT playing frisbee/hackysack/tag so people tend to wonder what you're REALLY doing. Sure, you're not breaking the law, but they don't know that. You look suspicious whether you think you do or not, and some people won't hesitate to call the cops or question you about your activities themselves, and legitimately so. I don't like being questioned or watched with suspicion, so caches on buildings or in areas where I have no business being are very low on my to-do list. Some people must get a rush from trying to be secretive and stealthy, but that doesn't do it for me. I get my kicks hiking up a mountain or spelunking in a cave. Awkward enounters with cops, security guards, or Johnny DoGood don't fall under my definition of "fun". Does that mean we should "ban urban caches" as the OP suggested? Of course not. It just means I'll choose the ones I seek very judiciously.

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As an officer I can tell you that the suspicious person call is not a major issue for most officers. The wasted tax dollars etc. are on the I have a bat in my attic kind or snake in my yard calls.

Suspicious person calls are a very common call and rightfully so. I don't see that these micros are an issue.

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Just thought that for those of you who have put in their two cents, that you might find this interesting and ponder the weight of the following post from another thread.

 

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In my view, geocaching is all about camoflague, stealth and deception. Urban/suburban caches must be approached, recovered, logged and replaced without being detected by casual observers. To do otherwise would compromise the cache - putting it at risk for vandalism or theft.

 

To date, I have masqueraded as:

 

- utility worker

- loan officer

- snowboarder

- drug-sniffing dog trainer

- hunting dog trainer

- land surveyor

- building inspector

- construction worker

- softball player

- freemason

- window cleaner

- photographer

- x-ray technician

- fisherman

- bicyclist

- security guard

- grocery clerk

- package delivery driver

- golfer

- tree trimmer

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Is that what it's all about? Is this normal behavior? Do you think that this person could be arrested when "Masquerading?" Believe me, I'm not judging this person. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. I'm just asking, is this fully acceptable in the world of Urban Caching? And finally, has it become necessary, for successful urban caching, to perform some form of "Stealth" like this or a lesser version of it due to the condition of the nation?

 

Just thought I'd pump up the conversation a bit. Your thoughts? :P

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Just thought that for those of you who have put in their two cents, that you might find this interesting and ponder the weight of the following post from another thread.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my view, geocaching is all about camoflague, stealth and deception. Urban/suburban caches must be approached, recovered, logged and replaced without being detected by casual observers. To do otherwise would compromise the cache - putting it at risk for vandalism or theft.

 

To date, I have masqueraded as:

 

- utility worker

- loan officer

- snowboarder

- drug-sniffing dog trainer

- hunting dog trainer

- land surveyor

- building inspector

- construction worker

- softball player

- freemason

- window cleaner

- photographer

- x-ray technician

- fisherman

- bicyclist

- security guard

- grocery clerk

- package delivery driver

- golfer

- tree trimmer

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Is that what it's all about? Is this normal behavior? Do you think that this person could be arrested when "Masquerading?" Believe me, I'm not judging this person. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. I'm just asking, is this fully acceptable in the world of Urban Caching? And finally, has it become necessary, for successful urban caching, to perform some form of "Stealth" like this or a lesser version of it due to the condition of the nation?

 

Just thought I'd pump up the conversation a bit. Your thoughts? :D

If he is masquerading as a cyclist, golfer, softball player or photographer then I have a problem with that!

 

wait, how do you pretend to do those things without actually doing them :P:)

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I love urban micros. I can actually take my wifey with me to those. She cannot navigate the 2+ terrains, but enjoys the hunts. Especially when she finds them before me. She caught me on a Phone-A-Friend last week and walked right to the cache while I was trying to CHEAT and get directions... :) Certain care should be taken though, as the guidelines point out.

 

The policemen are generally the geocachers' friends. A nice presentation page can be found at Groundspeak.com that explains it so that even the dumbest (dar ain't too many o' dem :) ) cop can understand.

 

HAPPY GEOCACHING!!!

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Is that what it's all  about? Is this normal behavior? Do you think that this person could be arrested when "Masquerading?"

Maybe not normal behavior but as long as it is within the law it doesn't seem to be a big deal. I used a couple of those to pick up the ladies...

I find that just being myself when I geocache and when "picking up the ladies" works the best. :)

 

Salvelinus

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Is that what it's all  about? Is this normal behavior? Do you think that this person could be arrested when "Masquerading?" Believe me, I'm not judging this person. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. I'm just asking, is this fully acceptable in the world of Urban Caching? And finally, has it become necessary, for successful urban caching, to perform some form of "Stealth" like this or a lesser version of it due to the condition of the nation?

 

Just thought I'd pump up the conversation a bit. Your thoughts?  :)

Yes, variations of the game have occurred and this kind of Urban caching is "fun" to some.

 

To me, It's sort of like those reality series. The original "Survivor" was very cool and had a small and very loyal audience at the beginning. As it gained popularity, the inevitable variations to the original started popping up. Some people love them all, some people pick and choose the ones they like, and some are just plain concerned that the original concept is slowly fading away behind a mirad of offshoots.

 

To be fair, there is something very odd about the people in that town and it probably wasn't the cache's fault. Your post has joggled a similar memory for me. About 10 years ago I was working up there. Part of my job with the Fish and Boat Commission that day was to count fisherman along Sinnamahoning Portage Creek and I had to use binocs to see up and down the stream. The next day, while doing the same thing as the day before, I got a visit from a State Policeman saying he got a call about me stalking the girls softball team who happened to be practicing in the ballfield next to the stream! :)

 

Both of us had a good laugh!

 

Btw...Nice to meet you earlier this summer!

 

Salvelinus

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uh oh here goes the micro subject again you know I think micros on the forums should be offlimits as well as talking about locationless. just makes me shudder to think about it. :)

Why?

 

Did it occur to you that the fact that so many threads are started about them, there may be a concern about their use? Some of those concerns may be legimate, some may not, but as long as people want to discuss them, I see no problem with having them. Gee...kinda sounds like the attitude I hear about people who like micro caches!

 

What really makes me scratch my head is someone who post to a thread and offers nothing except to complain that it exists. Don't you realize that everytime you do that it moves it to a more prominent location on the forums?

 

If you don't like um...then don't do um?

 

Sound familar?

 

Salvelinus

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I think there are way too many view points on this subject, and no one ever wins in the end.

 

My opinion, hunt what you like, hide what you like.

 

And for the most part, people follow that as well, but some people carry the "hide" overboard. If you hide 200 micros, yourself, in one city, you are a self-centered cacher. Regardless of size, style, etc. you are trying to influence everyone around you to cache the way you want.

 

Urban caches do raise suspicion, especially when you're on the porch of a Cracker Barrel with families having their meals and staring at you while you search.

 

I agree that urban micros should be more "well thought out" and shouldn't put people in bad situations...like my first cache I hidden, which was a micro.

 

The OP may have been getting at, that, for the most part, urban caches that raise suspicion are usually micros. If it was a regular sized ammo can, it's probably hidden in a place that has less traffic and the hunter can get in, sign the log, get out without rasing suspicion. If you're in New York City on Broadway trying to tear through every possible location you see to find a cache without a hint, you get mad.

 

It's certainly a touchy subject, but one that needs to be instilled in the heads of both new and old cachers.

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I have found plenty of caches on the front porch of Cracker Barrel, and similar locations, without attracting any suspicion at all. Perhaps it is a matter of skill in not looking suspicious. I have also abandoned hunts when I determined that I could not find the cache without attracting suspicion.

 

I have been questioned by law enforcement numerous times in the course of 1600+ cache hunts, and only twice has that occurred while I was hunting a microcache. In one case, the officer stayed and helped our group find the micro because he had a stronger flashlight! More often, I emerge from the woods to find police cars parked next to my cachemobile because I was either parked in an odd spot, or someone saw me go into the woods and thought I looked suspicious.

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I have found plenty of caches on the front porch of Cracker Barrel, and similar locations, without attracting any suspicion at all. Perhaps it is a matter of skill in not looking suspicious. I have also abandoned hunts when I determined that I could not find the cache without attracting suspicion.

 

I have been questioned by law enforcement numerous times in the course of 1600+ cache hunts, and only twice has that occurred while I was hunting a microcache. In one case, the officer stayed and helped our group find the micro because he had a stronger flashlight! More often, I emerge from the woods to find police cars parked next to my cachemobile because I was either parked in an odd spot, or someone saw me go into the woods and thought I looked suspicious.

That may be true, I was making a more vague generalization of urban micros.

 

You may have some "non-looking-suspicious" skill, but for the most part if you hide a micro right beside a window pane of a Cracker Barrel people are going to look at you whether or not you have to poke around to find the cache.

 

My philosophy is, if you are going to hide a cache, make it worthwhile.

 

Most of the Cracker Barrel caches really aren't going to take someone in the area to a place they haven't been before. But may cause suspicion to surround them.

 

And when I go into the woods, I never have a problem. We find the nearest public parking spot, or ask a local if we can park at their place while we hike. We get out our hiking gear, and no questions are asked.

 

Hikers have a more legitmate front usually, and aren't questioned. People poking around in the middle of a high traffic street, or at a Cracker Barrel where possibly the owner doesn't even know the cache is infact there, in my opinion, would draw alot more attention.

 

But that's just how I see it. :)

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In the signature item factory, we've bred a strain of mute hamsters which tend to work the best for not only avoiding suspicion from law enforcement, but also to prevent giving away the cache location to muggles as the cute little rodents cry out to be rescued from the frigid confines of a snowed-in ammo box.

 

Due up next from the lab is our new white mouse signature item. We're finding that, with the proliferation of micro and small caches, it's getting to be more and more of a challenge to find large hamster-suitable caches quickly enough to keep pace with the production of new litters of sig items. The projected switchover to a 33%/66% mix of hamsters and mice on November 1st will hopefully go a long way in alleviating this inventory control challenge.

Edited by The Leprechauns
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In the signature item factory, we've bred a strain of mute hamsters which tend to work the best for not only avoiding suspicion from law enforcement, but also to prevent giving away the cache location to muggles as the cute little rodents cry out to be rescued from the frigid confines of a snowed-in ammo box.

 

Due up next from the lab is our new white mouse signature item. We're finding that, with the proliferation of micro and small caches, it's getting to be more and more of a challenge to find large hamster-suitable caches quickly enough to keep pace with the production of new litters of sig items. The projected switchover to a 33%/66% mix of hamsters and mice on November 1st will hopefully go a long way in alleviating this inventory control challenge.

:) You lost me!

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In the signature item factory, we've bred a strain of mute hamsters which tend to work the best for not only avoiding suspicion from law enforcement, but also to prevent giving away the cache location to muggles as the cute little rodents cry out to be rescued from the frigid confines of a snowed-in ammo box.

 

Due up next from the lab is our new white mouse signature item. We're finding that, with the proliferation of micro and small caches, it's getting to be more and more of a challenge to find large hamster-suitable caches quickly enough to keep pace with the production of new litters of sig items. The projected switchover to a 33%/66% mix of hamsters and mice on November 1st will hopefully go a long way in alleviating this inventory control challenge.

Wouldn't it be a helluva lot cheaper and easier to just duct tape their mouths shut? :)

Now before you all start flaming me-I just said mouths, they can still breathe out of their little noses. :):)

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Personally, I prefer the common test: "Would you feel comfortable playing frisbee/hackysack/tag in this location?"  What we are doing is no more wrong than any other game, and in the cases of cul de sacs, small parks, parking lots, etc., the answer is YES, I would feel comfortable playing games there (and have done so in many cases).

It's not a question of legallity, it's a question of perception -- and not yours, but that of the people who are watching you. If you're playing frisbee/hackysack/tag, people can see what you're doing, recognize it for what it is, and don't care. If you're snooping around the back of a building or in bushes near a building, you're obviously NOT playing frisbee/hackysack/tag so people tend to wonder what you're REALLY doing. Sure, you're not breaking the law, but they don't know that. You look suspicious whether you think you do or not, and some people won't hesitate to call the cops or question you about your activities themselves, and legitimately so. I don't like being questioned or watched with suspicion, so caches on buildings or in areas where I have no business being are very low on my to-do list. Some people must get a rush from trying to be secretive and stealthy, but that doesn't do it for me. I get my kicks hiking up a mountain or spelunking in a cave. Awkward enounters with cops, security guards, or Johnny DoGood don't fall under my definition of "fun". Does that mean we should "ban urban caches" as the OP suggested? Of course not. It just means I'll choose the ones I seek very judiciously.

The public's perception is the key to playing our game harmoniously with law enforcement and the general public. The main problem is not "just urban micros," it is all poorly placed urban caches.

 

This article was written by cacher Dave_w6dps , and really hits the proverbial nail on the head.

 

The hobby of geocaching is quite unusual when compared to most leisure activities. It relies on annonymity and discretion--stealth even.

It relies even more on being able to hide geocaches on other people's property for our colleagues to find. Geocaching cannot exist without discretely placing geocaches where others can find them. This usually means on property we don't own, either public or private. Let's think about how our hobby looks to others.

 

Pretend for a moment that you are a normal person.

You look out your window toward a greenbelt in your neighborhood and see a stranger lurking about with a strange device, obviously trying hard not to be noticed. Then you see several other strangers doing the same thing over the course of a weekend. You might even spot them looking for something hidden, or hanging around for a few minutes and then hiding something before leaving.

 

What would you think? You find yourself overlooking an open area near a train station, or even an airport. A stranger comes to the area, and furtively walks around with a strange device (looks like some kind of homing system or remote detonator like they use in spy movies!). He stops for a while, repeatedly pushing buttons on the device. He then gets an olive drab container with military markings out of his car and hides it! The whole time he has obviously been on the lookout for anyone watching him, and generally looked very sneaky!

 

What would you think?

Suppose you happen to notice a lot of folks showing up, for no reason that you can think of, behind the local convenience store. They seem to crawl around on the ground for a while, feel there way around trash containers and electrical boxes until they find a small container. They surrepticiously take this container a short distance away, all the while looking around to see if they are being watched. They rifle through the contents before, just as secretively, returning the container where they found it and then making a quick getaway!

 

What would you think? Okay, enough trying to think normally!

Let's think like a geocacher planning a cache hide (much easier than thinking normally for many of us). The importance of considering appearances is growing by the day. We need to consider how unusual activity at our cache location looks to observers who know nothing about geocaching. In today's society, most of us recognize that there can only be a limited number of responses by various bomb squads before they start comparing notes and decide that geocaching is a waste of resources and/or a potential cover for other covert activities. If communities begin to consider geocaching in this light, it would be easy for them to decide it should simply be banned. So how do we keep from bringing geocaching to the attention of regulatory bodies who may feel the need to help us keep things from looking bad? By behaving responsibly, and encouraging our fellow geocachers to do the same. Start by always following the spirit of the geocaching.com submission guidelines. This includes getting permission BEFORE placing a geocache, where appropriate. Most of the folks I have approached and discussed geocaching with have been happy to allow geocaches to be placed on property they administer. Obviously, the cache must be placed in an appropriate area, and designed to not cause conflicts or difficulties. If you have communicated with the property manager or owner, it should reduce the likelihood of calls to the police. Be prepared to take "NO" as an answer! There are plenty of places to hide a geocache in southern California. For a bit more information on selecting a cache location, please read: "Ready to Hide Your First Geocache?" We should all encourage other geocachers to place responsible caches. If you find a geocache that you think may draw unwanted attention or is in an area that is questionable for geocaches, you should contact the cache owner and explain your feelings. They may not be receptive, but you will have done your part. A diplomatically worded email could draw their attention to something they may not have considered. We shouldn't have to form the "cache police", but we do need to encourage each other to behave responsibly. If we continue to have bomb squads respond to geocaches, we will draw even more attention of a type we don't want. I am not trying to re-ruffle feathers or salt any recent wounds, but this is a topic we have to discuss openly for our hobby to survive! A bit of background about why I am concerned about where geocaches are being hidden, and why I think we all should be: "Phone Home" at DL 'Pinched'

Bomb squad blows up geocache in Tustin, Ca

Bomb vs. Geocache, the eternal strugle

Caching on Campus

Putting cachers in HARMS WAY!

Geocaches on Private Property

Bomb Squad explodes my Vista del Mar Park Cache

Ammo boxes, bomb squads, and you the cacher. "

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Your list is exactly why I have started to collect newspaper articles of all the inane things that people call in as a bomb or other threat.

 

I want proof handy that the problem isn't people going about our daily lives, but that our vigilance in reporting everything can conflict with our daily lives that it's just a fact of life in a hyper vigilant world.

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The OP may have been getting at, that, for the most part, urban caches that raise suspicion are usually micros. If it was a regular sized ammo can, it's probably hidden in a place that has less traffic and the hunter can get in, sign the log, get out without rasing suspicion. If you're in New York City on Broadway trying to tear through every possible location you see to find a cache without a hint, you get mad.

Dang! Just when I thought I'd done all except five or six caches on Manhattan in the last year! There's one on Broadway?!? You know something I don't know? Did one on East Broadway, at Canal... Some virtuals on or near Broadway. Did them all. New one in Tribeca. Nope, not near Broadway.

I think you'll find that the ones on Manhattan are either extremely ingenious, or they disappear very quickly. You want a really tough cache, try Five Star New York. That one took me almost a year! Yes, a few waypoints are on or near Broadway.

I think that you far underestimate the ingenuity of New York cachers!

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Urban caches are fine, as long as the hider 1) chooses a container that will make it pretty obvious that it ain't a bomb

But, How can you do that ?

Any container can be explosive. Tupperware is not the container of choice

for bombers, but it could be. So, where do you draw the line.

I live in Houston and we have so much Urban, that clever placement, regardless of the container is important, unless it's out in the woods.

I would not, however, use steel pipe, with end caps. I think this is just

asking to have it blowup...

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It's not a question of legallity, it's a question of perception -- and not yours, but that of the people who are watching you.  If you're playing frisbee/hackysack/tag, people can see what you're doing, recognize it for what it is, and don't care.  If you're snooping around the back of a building or in bushes near a building, you're obviously NOT playing frisbee/hackysack/tag so people tend to wonder what you're REALLY doing.  Sure, you're not breaking the law, but they don't know that.  You look suspicious whether you think you do or not, and some people won't hesitate to call the cops or question you about your activities themselves, and legitimately so.  I don't like being questioned or watched with suspicion, so caches on buildings or in areas where I have no business being are very low on my to-do list.  Some people must get a rush from trying to be secretive and stealthy, but that doesn't do it for me.  I get my kicks hiking up a mountain or spelunking in a cave.  Awkward enounters with cops, security guards, or Johnny DoGood don't fall under my definition of "fun".  Does that mean we should "ban urban caches" as the OP suggested?  Of course not.  It just means I'll choose the ones I seek very judiciously.

I tend to be as obvious as I can... Make an effort to park in plain sight, spend time getting out of the car, putting on my vest and hat, getting out my staff. I hold my GPSr in front of me and walk around in circles for a minute. This might raise their curiosity, but, all of it is non-threating and "non-sneaky". Put yourself in their place and the person was in front of your house. would this type of behavior lower your fear a bit ?

BTW..I like the common test, go idea.....

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Just to clarify, the park was a public park. The only thing we did while we were there was got out of the van, looked to get an idea of what area the cache was in in the park, took a couple of spins on the "Merry-Go-Round, and left. Nothing of a suspicious nature other than we were there.

We were not "freaked out" by having to speak to the Trooper, however, if you know anything at all about Pennsylvania State Troopers, you probably should be a little "Freaked" when they do stop you. The Trooper that we spoke to was cool about it after he understood what we were doing.

 

.

Oh, come on !....

Grownups in a kids park, riding the merry go round, is not suspicious.. ?

What if you lived across the street and your kids were in the park and you looked out at 3-4(?) adults, without kids walking around the park and riding the merry go around.. Wouldn't it send signals to you ? It is not paranoid to be careful. Adults walking around a kids park, or in an area where kids are playing, without kids, send a message to the parents.

I don't know any Penn. troopers. But, generally, I find that state troopers are much better than regular city cops. Just do everything the nice man says and explain yourself.

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Is that what it's all  about? Is this normal behavior? Do you think that this person could be arrested when "Masquerading?"

Maybe not normal behavior but as long as it is within the law it doesn't seem to be a big deal. I used a couple of those to pick up the ladies...

I find that just being myself when I geocache and when "picking up the ladies" works the best. :o

 

Salvelinus

Sniff :laughing:

I have round bruise all over my body.

They are from women, pushing me away, with 10 foot poles.....sniff <_<

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Speaking as both a cop and a geocacher, have patience with some of our (police) more uninformed bretheren. The job can really warp your perspective on things and most officers aren't real well rounded (which explains the high suicide and divorce rates to some extent). Calmly explain the purpose of what your are doing and offer to explain it further (and maybe even take them along) if they would like. Most will thank you and leave.

 

On the other hand, it is kind of fun when I get approached by security guards and the like who are wanabies, wanting to get nosy and I just badge them away. :ph34r:

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On the other hand, it is kind of fun when I get approached by security guards and the like who are wanabies, wanting to get nosy and I just badge them away.  :ph34r:

I hate plastic badges. Most Official Law Enforcement I run into while geocaching have a modicum of common sense and let me go about my business.

 

Not most rent-a-cops though. Or City Bylaw Officers. Ugg.

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...Not most rent-a-cops though. Or City Bylaw Officers. Ugg.

Security Guards are hired out by corporate america. Corporations have a collective IQ of about 22 and that's probably too much credit. The guards are given crappy objectives and crappy pay and made responsible for all kinds of stupid things. There are no doubt legitimate reasons to have security. Chasing people off a parking lot doesn't strike me as one of them, but odds are it was the only thing that happened all day.

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...Not most rent-a-cops though. Or City Bylaw Officers. Ugg.

Security Guards are hired out by corporate america. Corporations have a collective IQ of about 22 and that's probably too much credit. The guards are given crappy objectives and crappy pay and made responsible for all kinds of stupid things. There are no doubt legitimate reasons to have security. Chasing people off a parking lot doesn't strike me as one of them, but odds are it was the only thing that happened all day.

I second that. I've had no problems with police officers on my night caching encounters. Most will just leave you be.

 

I feel sorry for Rent-a-Cops. They've been nice to me thus far, but they are always in a rush to get rid of you, and they are just following orders, with their hand itching to pull out their walkie-talkies or cell phones for further instructions. Maybe we are misusing the term "police state" <_<

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I had 2 cars and 3 officers hit me with very bright lights one evening doing an urban micro. I explained what I was doing and they were cool with it. One of the local PD also Geocaches. I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong or breaking any laws. I have little cards I printed out from the Geocaching University web site that explain what it is but I was a bit flustered by the "bust" and forgot to give one to the officers. <_<

 

(I'm not positive what they were doing there with two cars together but the micro IS a very short distance from a popular donut shop.) :P

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Since when did walking around a public park become suspicious? :laughing:

 

I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. ~James Madison, speech, Virginia Convention, 1788

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Since when did walking around a public park become suspicious? :laughing:

 

I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. ~James Madison, speech, Virginia Convention, 1788

When you do it after hours...or if you do it like you are looking for a drug stash...or placing a bomb.

 

With all the "security" scares nowadays, just about any innocent thing you do can look "terroristic". And they'll approach you (while the real terrorists are getting away).

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My philosophy is, if you are going to hide a cache, make it worthwhile. 

This is clearly subjective and differs for each person. I enjoy urban mirco caches, maybe even more than an ammo box in the woods full of great stuff. I love finding a micro in a place that I have driven by everyday for years. I love the feeling of knowing there is a little secret, hidden within feet of people that know no different. Its part of the challenge for me, finding these micros in such public places without anyone noticing. One man's trash cache is my worthwhile cache heaven. I don't need to be taken to some new great place I've never seen before. I love finding caches in familiar places. Then suddenly I look at those familiar places a little bit differently.

 

^^ike

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Do you think that Urban Micros should be allowed anymore?

I tend to think of this as a self correcting problem. My personal thoughts tend to lean against micros, and I'd probably keep quiet if Jeremy suggested banning film cannisters from Burger King landscaping, but then I've always been known for my low LQ, (lame quotiant). That being said, I've done some micros that rated right up with my favorite caches. If a cacher brings me to a beautiful location, or teaches me a bit of local lore, I don't really care what size the container is.

 

There are those among us that honestly believe that dropping a film cannister in every possible parking lot somehow enhances the geocaching experience for the rest of us, and to them I say, "Have fun". Play the game you want, and you'll never be disappointed.

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I should take Jeremy's advise and proofread my posts before hitting Add Reply!

 

I blame it on the syndrome where you mistype perfectly spelled, but wrong, words.  It's like typos, but instead of the wrong letter, the whole word is wrong.  I never did that before I learned to touch type.  Is there a word for this syndrome?  (Other than "dumba**?")

I call them "wordos"

The time which elapses between hitting the "submit" button on a forum post or the "send" button on an e-mail, and noticing your typo, is called an "ohnosecond". ;)

Hey, I have that joke on my Webpage!

 

I also think that micros should not be banned. If people are stupid enough to not use stealth, then they deserve the "close encounters" with the police. Also, where I live, there are mainly micro caches, with the exception off a few in parks.

Edited by Team Phoenix.
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I had a few thoughts on on urban caching.

 

Urban camo for the urban cacher

1) the engineer (for ages 24 and up )

print off the webpages for the caches you're seeking. also make up a spread sheet with your waypoints, coordinates and a check box for each waypoint. print the spread sheet. take all the pages, put all this on a clipboard, with the spreadsheet pages on top and a few blank pages for notes.

wear loose fitting tan colored work clothes that look a lot like the uniforms used by most meter-readers. When seeking, be sure to check the clipboard often.

Look at guard rails, power-poles, railroad track or anything else wihle searching. Do not look directly at other people. If approached by LEO, show them the contents of the clipboard. If approached by average Joe, use discretion bout how to handle him. If you see a bunch of muggles, make a note on one of the blank pages, leave and come back later.

2)the scientist/student ( ages 16 and up )

prepare a clipboard as with the engineer. Take a digital camera and take photos of flowers, bugs and such. Make notes on the clipboard. Count birds. Count cars.

wear casual attire. pick up any litter that you can carry and put it in the nearest waste bin. if approached by Law-enforcement, be honest and direct.

3) the tourist (all ages)

Dress like the tourists (in Nashville, where I am, that is blue jeans, dark shirt, and Cowboy hat) in you local area. The clipboard is a good idea here but leave it in the car. get the $20 gps book of maps for the area. They are marginally useful for getting to the general area and make you look more like a tourist. carry a camera,

 

gclouse

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This has been an interesting discussion but didn't quite head in the direction that I was after. Partially that is my fault. I should have thought the question out a little more before posting. I appreciate all of the replies though and have found, if nothing else, that folks are really defensive of their ability to search for micros, stealthed or not.

 

I can see that definately micros aren't going to go away, and that's a good thing!

 

What I was actually after, is that due to the events since 9/11, the Gulf and Iraq wars, and terrorist factions, has the GeoCaching community felt the need to change their tactics or decided not to do or place certain types of caches due to heightened "security measures" throughout the world.

 

So with that final note I'm closing this discussion. <_<

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