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crunchiespg

Can We Opt Out? As It Doesnt Work Here

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i resent my membership fees being spent on this Waymarking.

especially seeing as it doesnt seem to work for the UK. as when i enter my postcode it doesnt do a thing..

 

so how about seperating it from gc.com

and then spend my membership fee on making pocket queries actually come when ordered. or even better making a simpler database for each country/ state. so we dont have to bother with pq's at all, we can just download all the caches we want in one go. thats why i pay my premium membership. but that doesn't seem to be worth it sometimes when pq's never arrive.

 

i fail to see the appeal of Waymarking, especially as it doens seem to work in my country. but each to their own, if you like it carry on, but dont hinder geocaching to do so.

so please can it be seperated, then those that want it pay for it themelves.

Edited by crunchiespg

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I don't like puzzle caches, so I want my Geocaching.com membership prorated to be $24 per year instead of $30, representing the percentage of puzzle caches in my area. I am just too stupid to do most of them.

 

Great idea! Thanks, crunchiespg!

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especially seeing as it doesnt seem to work for the UK. as when i enter my postcode it doesnt do a thing..

 

Sorry it doesn't work too well in the UK, but the whole thing is still in BETA...I'm sure the other country problem will be fixed soon. There has been a couple other people who have mentioned problems with other countries...so I'm sure Groundspeak is looking into it.

 

-Robbie

Team Robrad

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Can I only have my membership fees go to supporting the pages that I look at? I'm sure the wizkids at GC.com can figure a way to know exactly which pages I pull up; my money should only go to those and to a big barrel of pretzel rods for the Groundspeak office.

 

While I would like to be able to release my funds to go towards Jeremy's new Bentley, I really feel that he should have got the big Mercedes SUV instead. Therefore, I cannot, in good conscience, allow my money to go for that.

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what you are saying is slightly different. as your choosing parts of geocaching. puzzle caches are still part of geocaching.

 

Waymarking isnt geocaching.

 

its like me paying for a letterboxing site when i only geocache.

 

its a completely different thing. so it should stand alone.

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Those of us that liked LCs and virts don't necessarily find it to be a different thing.

 

I guess that I would take this thread more seriously if it were original. Strangely, you are not the first to suggest that your membership fee only be used to support features that you like.

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I guess that I would take this thread more seriously if it were original. Strangely, you are not the first to suggest that your membership fee only be used to support features that you like.

Really? Why would someone's opinion have to be devoid of agreement with someone else for you to give it merit?

 

Strangely, he's not the only one to realize that WM.com is just a tad different than panning on GC.com maps or using the Insta-Notify button.

 

To call WM.com just a "feature" of GC.com only serves to justify why it doesn't have a separate membership. They're hardly the same site as even the owners are quick to point out when someone wants to know why certain things aren't more like GC.com.

 

BUT, to answer the original question of the topic, the only reason you need a membership fee to access WM.com right now is because it's a criteria being used to throttle the use of the site while it's still having issues worked out (like how to create new categories). After it's ready, it'll be rolled out to the general public and I do agree that any PM features at WM.com should have their own fee seperate from GC.com PM features.

 

There are many users at GC.com that lost functionality there because it just wasn't the appropriate framework for those concepts (essentially Locationless and Virtual caches). Those concepts are being moved here and reestablished in a better way.

 

In that sense, paying for GC.com up until now has financed the move of these cache types to WM.com so that they are functional again. GC.com is improved by WM.com being created.

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I guess that I would take this thread more seriously if it were original.  Strangely, you are not the first to suggest that your membership fee only be used to support features that you like.

Really? Why would someone's opinion have to be devoid of agreement with someone else for you to give it merit?

I'm sorry if you thought that this was what I was suggesting. What I meant was this: As in the other recent thread like this one, none of us get to tell Jeremy how to use our membership fees. If you don't like what Groundspeak is doing with your money, stop giving it to them. If you like the functionality that you receive, keep paying them.

...To call WM.com just a "feature" of GC.com only serves to justify why it doesn't have a separate membership.  They're hardly the same site as even the owners are quick to point out when someone wants to know why certain things aren't more like GC.com.

Did someone say that they are the same site? I know that I didn't. I specifically referred to functionality that one gets from his/her membership fees payed to Groundspeak.

After it's ready, it'll be rolled out to the general public and I do agree that any PM features at WM.com should have their own fee seperate from GC.com PM features.

I bet you are in the minority on this. Personally, I would prefer not to pay twice.

GC.com is improved by WM.com being created.

I'm pretty sure that Jeremy explained it in the other thread. Some of the really cool features from WM.com will migrate to GC.com. Moneys used to develop WM.com are not wasted for those that like geocaching, but are not interested in Waymarking.

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I actually thought it was kinda cool that they let premium members get a taste as a way of saying thanks for support. As others have suggested, this site grew out of the locationless and virtual caches being posted on gc.c. So, whether or not it suits your particular liking, it was being developed just as part of the evolution/specialization of the hobby. The fact that it turned into a whole new site? Well, that's just the way it happened. As Waymarking grows in popularity, I imagine that they'll continue to separate from gc.c in functionality and membership. Personally, I hope they'll continue to allow a premium membership from one to cover both.

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While I would like to be able to release my funds to go towards Jeremy's new Bentley, I really feel that he should have got the big Mercedes SUV instead. Therefore, I cannot, in good conscience, allow my money to go for that.

"While I would like to be able to release my funds to go towards Jeremy's new Bentley, I really feel that he should have got the big Mercedes SUV instead. Therefore, I cannot, in good conscience, allow my money to go for that. "

 

Given the impact of gas guzlers on the environment I am disppointed that SBELL111 feels Jeremy should drive such a vehicle. How mach does gas have to go up before drivers resort to more economical cars?

 

Peter

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OK, no sarcasms here. :blink:

 

In defense of Grounspeak, Pocket Queries have been performing significantly better recently. For the infrastructure they have to maintain (database, bandwidth, etc.), I think the current Premium Membership fees are great value, at least for me.

 

A more pragmatic request would have been to separate Waymarking and Geocaching fee structures and ask for a discount in using GC.com only. Otherwise, just demanding them to be separated doesn't make sense, since... they are already separate. :o

 

I see it this way - Groundspeak has given us the opportunity to try something new (Waymarking) while at the same time, tried to resolve the Locationless and Virtual cache headaches without raising the Premium Membership fees. Only time will tell if Waymarking will be successful.

 

But isn't it refreshing to see an entity NOT raise taxes, add surcharges, or make up excuses to bilk the customer? Enjoy the privilege, or simply ignore Waymarking, and no one gets hurt. :o

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The way I figure it, I felt like $30 for a Geocaching.com membership was a bargain. For that price, I got cache listings, forums, an off-topic forum, pocket queries, instant cache notifications, pannable and zoomable maps, members-only caches, and a broken functionality for locationless caches (250 of them, and no new ones since early 2003) and virtual caches (effectively on a moratorium also, although the occasional new one does get listed).

 

Now I get cache listings, forums, an off-topic forum, pocket queries, instant cache notifications, pannable and zoomable maps, members-only caches, and a new wide-open opportunity to replace the locationless caches and virtual caches with something brand new called Waymarking. All for the same $30.

 

Oh, I forgot, I also get benchmarking functionality. I want a refund for that part since I don't log benchmarks, and benchmarks aren't geocaches. Never mind that other people absolutely love them, just like I'm warming up to Waymarking.

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... Given the impact of gas guzlers on the environment I am disppointed that SBELL111 feels Jeremy should drive such a vehicle. How mach does gas have to go up before drivers resort to more economical cars?

While this is fodder for a different thread, I will never give up my SUV, no matter how high gas prices get. A quick search will turn up related threads and my reasoning.

 

I have been considering buying a car in addition to our SUVs, however. There is a E-class on the lot that keeps calling my name.

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Given the impact of gas guzlers on the environment I am disppointed that SBELL111 feels Jeremy should drive such a vehicle. How mach does gas have to go up before drivers resort to more economical cars?

If it makes you feel any better, I fired my chauffeur and sold my Thursday and Friday Bentley. I felt that the Arnage T was too blue collar for my lifestyle anyway.

 

Seriously, if you found out that your $30 went for last Friday's sushi trip would that make you feel any better?

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:D Can I subtract money for forum posts I do not like and even more money to make up for the cretins who have flamed me even though I am innocent of all wrongdoing?

Wait!

I just did the addition and subtraction and Groundspeak owes me money!;)

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How much of my money did they spend to start gc.com?

None, I don't think. I went to gc.com and it isn't owned by Groundspeak. ;)

 

   Domain Name: GC.COM
  Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
  Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
  Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
  Name Server: DNS.HOSTONY.COM
  Name Server: DNS.HOSTONY.ORG
  Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
  Updated Date: 29-may-2005
  Creation Date: 01-dec-1994
  Expiration Date: 30-nov-2006

 

:D

 

--Marky

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How much of my money did they spend to start gc.com?

None, I don't think. I went to gc.com and it isn't owned by Groundspeak. ;)

 

   Domain Name: GC.COM
  Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
  Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
  Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
  Name Server: DNS.HOSTONY.COM
  Name Server: DNS.HOSTONY.ORG
  Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
  Updated Date: 29-may-2005
  Creation Date: 01-dec-1994
  Expiration Date: 30-nov-2006

 

:D

 

--Marky

Whew! Then I haven't lost a penny.

 

Close one!

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Hmm why not add a pay per cache option where you can choose to pay maybe 50 cents per cache that you log? ;)

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A comment on this thread had to do with the WM and that it was a replacement for LC & Virts, but we lost the braging rights, and the ability to add to our 'counts'.

And the WM site, while neat in it's own right (with the exception of the weird rules on some WM for loging requirements), it is in no way a replacement for the virtuals, which taught or brought attention to something.

 

If the search feature can be made to work for other countries, than it would be really good for the whole community. But it is only a BETA, so the issues are supposed to be brought up here to help find solutions....at least that was the original intent of the bb/forums/internet, right?

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A comment on this thread had to do with the WM and that it was a replacement for LC & Virts, but we lost the braging rights, and the ability to add to our 'counts'.

And the WM site, while neat in it's own right (with the exception of the weird rules on some WM for loging requirements), it is in no way a replacement for the virtuals, which taught or brought attention to something.

I think many people would disagree with you on many points. But this topic wasn't about any of that - it was complaining that their $30 was spent on something they didn't like or didn't agree with. The general response is lots of companies do things you don't agree with, but it happens. You can't please everyone. However buying a latte at Starbucks doesn't mean you can tell Starbucks that you resent them spending your latte money on a new frappachino drink you'll never use. (awaits the taking to far of an analogy).

 

Another point is that both sites have the same codebase, and that the enhancements and changes to Waymarking.com will be beneficial to geocaching.com. In fact I expect that Waymarking.com will eventually fund new and better features on geocaching.com - which seems like a win-win to me.

 

If the search feature can be made to work for other countries, than it would be really good for the whole community.

 

I don't understand what you mean by that. The site works with other countries. Can you expand on that point?

 

But it is only a BETA, so the issues are supposed to be brought up here to help find solutions....at least that was the original intent of the bb/forums/internet, right?

 

This is a bit of a red herring. I'm not exactly sure what solutions you are expecting from "I don't like how my money is spent." I'm open to suggestions though I already responded to the OP that the money was spent on Sushi last Friday. It was an all you can eat buffet at Todai.

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However buying a latte at Starbucks doesn't mean you can tell Starbucks that you resent them spending your latte money on a new frappachino drink you'll never use. (awaits the taking to far of an analogy).

Guess we need a smilie of Signal driking a frappachino ;)

Edited by tozainamboku

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Since the topic relates to the $30 USD for Premium Membership, and opting out for a reduced Geocaching.com ONLY option.

 

A Membership to most other online services far exceeds $30 USD Annually (Try "EverQuest" at $15 USD per Month)

 

So, right now my $30 USD is going for numerous things in hardware like servers, High speed data transfer whatever they're called for connecting to the Internet and so forth

 

But yes... I totally agree with the items that were written sarcastically.

 

The $30 USD gives you the PHYSICAL world of Geocaching, the Visual world of Waymarking.

 

Locationless, were dead on Geocaching.. I don't know why, and I don't care to know. I'm not in Groundspeak management. But people wanted to be able to do LOCATIONLESS and VIRTUALS still

 

And now you can! By Waymarking. And yet people keep trying to illustrate how it is not the same... it's totally the same thing. Except now we can have lots more choice. Sure the quality might not be the same as before... but no one ever suggested that we start limiting the number of Geocaches put out to improve the quality of placement.

 

So, while you complain about investing a paltry $30 USD for an add-on version that brought back Locationless and Virtuals let me put it this way...

 

Everyone is either Pro-Virtual (includes Locationless/Webcam/EarthCache) or Anti-Virtual.

 

If you are Pro... then you should be thrilled that they are once again available through the new Waymarking site and at no additional cost.

 

If you are Anti... then you were content to pay $30 USD for the container caches already and ignoring the rest. How is this suddenly so different?

 

;) The Blue Quasar

 

Oh.. forgot... I'm in Canada... Waymarking works just fine here. And let me tell you, the maps that you Americans get for your $30 USD are FAR superior to what we JUST got. I'm not complaining about the maps (although poor - Sorry Jeremy, but they are) as I don't need the maps. It is just hard for people outside of the USA to feel sorry for you that part of your $30 USD went to Waymarking when we have had reduced service for years at the same price. I accepted it, I'm happy for what I have. Choose your own perspective, you're the one who has to live with it.

Edited by The Blue Quasar

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There's a slight "offness" to the reasoning here.

 

I'm not going to Starbucks and griping that they sell a drink that I don't use. Granted, I get no benefits from Starbucks except the venti quad mocha's caffeine.

 

I look at this more like a magazine subscription. If I was paying for Time magazine, and they said "we're no longer taking editorials, but we'll let you know when you can see them again." Some time in the distant future, they came back and said "Ok, you still can't do editorials, but we're going to put this new magazine out that has things like editorials, and we think they're close enough - so there you have it."

 

Personally, I'd be peeved. In the geocaching world, I did come into the game paying my $3 a month last year liking locationless and virtuals. I particularly like locationless caches here in Japan where, of the caches within 30 miles of my house (a whopping 13), I own 7 of them. The newest one is 19.? miles away - which in its location translates to an approximate 4 hour round trip by car. Locationless caches continued to give me an opportunity to "do" geocaching.

 

It's been made perfectly clear that Waymarking.com is NOT Geocaching. You can count dozens of posts that say that somewhere. I signed up and sent money in to pay for Geocaching. If Waymarking is NOT geocaching, then like the others - I have a justified reason to ask why Geocaching subscriptions are paying for Waymarking.

 

Now - before I get flamed for this - understand that at $3 a month ($30 a year for me), I could really care less what they do with the money. But don't discount people that do care and are asking this question. It's a valid question. And the "oh, your subscription paid for bandwidth in February" response just doesn't really fly. At least just tell people - "You're right, geocacher dollars are being spent on Waymarking concepts." And then tell us whether this is going to continue indefinitely or if the sites are actually going to be split after it goes full time public? It's understandable that the launch of the idea is paid for from Geocacher dollars because it's a solution to a Geocaching.com obsoleted functionality.

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There's a slight "offness" to the reasoning here.

 

I'm not going to Starbucks and griping that they sell a drink that I don't use. Granted, I get no benefits from Starbucks except the venti quad mocha's caffeine.

 

I look at this more like a magazine subscription. If I was paying for Time magazine, and they said "we're no longer taking editorials, but we'll let you know when you can see them again." Some time in the distant future, they came back and said "Ok, you still can't do editorials, but we're going to put this new magazine out that has things like editorials, and we think they're close enough - so there you have it."

You forgot to add, "...but since you're already a subscriber, there won't be any additional cost to receive the supplemental magazine containing editorials." :laughing:

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:D OK, even though the Grounspeakers are spending there excessive profits on large and expensive vehicles, I woud settle for a free latte and then be satisfied that the huge 30 bucks for a heck of a lot of services is justified.

But, gee Jeremy, since I helped pay for the Bentley can I use it next fridaynight? :laughing:

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Personally, I'd be peeved. In the geocaching world, I did come into the game paying my $3 a month last year liking locationless and virtuals.  I particularly like locationless caches here in Japan where, of the caches within 30 miles of my house (a whopping 13), I own 7 of them.  The newest one is 19.? miles away - which in its location translates to an approximate 4 hour round trip by car.  Locationless caches continued to give me an opportunity to "do" geocaching.

Having done some caching in Japan, I can understand where NomadVW is coming from. Despite the population density there, caches are relatively sparse, even near military bases in Aomori and Okinawa. Grabbing a locationless along the way to a cache is definitely part of the fun.

 

There's a special feeling when one logs a locationless, and no one else can claim the find. More so when the location and the adventure were memorable. It's a better bragging right than find counts or FTFs IMHO. :D

 

Too bad there isn't an easy way to stall implementation of Waymarking in places where supply of locationless are still plentiful, like in Japan. I'm willing to give Waymarking a chance, especially if it can come up with a way to recapture the "it's MY location and no one else can have it" feeling. :laughing:

Edited by budd-rdc

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However buying a latte at Starbucks doesn't mean you can tell Starbucks that you resent them spending your latte money on a new frappachino drink you'll never use. (awaits the taking to far of an analogy).

If we're using Starbuck's as an example, I think the analogy would be that they stop offering pastries altogether, but nothing changes in terms of their coffee/tea/frappachino offerings. In place of the the pastry counter, they've decided to open up an entire pastry store next door and offer a free pastry to anyone who buys a coffee at the old store. Unfortunately, there were a few dry bran muffins that used to be offered at the old store that are no longer offered at the new pastry store, and if you used to go to the Starbucks to specifically purchase that bran muffin, well, you're out of luck.

 

We think you'll like one of these new pastries. If not, we have really good coffee too! Or perhaps you'd rather get your coffee at McDonald's! [Did he just promote his category again? Why yes, he did!]

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This whole issue of "I only want my money to go to the things I designate it for" is as old as memberships, stockholders, non-profit organizations etc. It will never be resolved to the satisfaction of people who see it as their right to control where their money goes. Some non-profits now allow you to designate contributions go to certain categories, but this is about as far as it goes.

 

In the private sector of business, your only option is: Decide for yourself if the money you spend for membership, stock ownership, or whatever, is money well spent. Do you get enough return in service or investment to make you happy. If not, take your money elsewhere. This is the system and it works as it should.

 

I am happy with geocaching.com so I pay for two premium memberships for myself and my son. Others may not think the services are worth the price and decide not to pay for premium membership. Once you pay for membership, you can lobby for additional features or changes to features, but not specifically where YOUR money is spent. This is exactly as it should be.

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However buying a latte at Starbucks doesn't mean you can tell Starbucks that you resent them spending your latte money on a new frappachino drink you'll never use. (awaits the taking to far of an analogy).

If we're using Starbuck's as an example, I think the analogy would be that they stop offering pastries altogether, but nothing changes in terms of their coffee/tea/frappachino offerings. In place of the the pastry counter, they've decided to open up an entire pastry store next door and offer a free pastry to anyone who buys a coffee at the old store. Unfortunately, there were a few dry bran muffins that used to be offered at the old store that are no longer offered at the new pastry store, and if you used to go to the Starbucks to specifically purchase that bran muffin, well, you're out of luck.

 

We think you'll like one of these new pastries. If not, we have really good coffee too! Or perhaps you'd rather get your coffee at McDonald's! [Did he just promote his category again? Why yes, he did!]

B) Totally cool analogy. :grin:

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i resent my membership fees being spent on this Waymarking.

especially seeing as it doesnt seem to work for the UK. as when i enter my postcode it doesnt do a thing..

 

Interesting idea, I guess for me it comes down to what did I buy with my $30? Was it a gc.com premium membership? or was it a Groundspeak premium membership?

Looking at the subscribe page it seems it latter.

Nowhere does it say what exactly they'll use the money for, or when... One of things it does say is

Not to mention, you'll be contributing to the support and maintainence of the Geocaching.com site. Thanks!

 

In appreciation for supporting the web site, you will be locked in at the current rate as long as you continue to renew. We're continuing to work on additional features that will enhance your geocaching experience. Those features will be included as part of your membership.

Does this mean that if Waymarking is considered an enhancement that I'll be able to use it all for the same rate till I still renewing my membership? or does it mean that I'll be able to use the other things for a while and then it will be severed and I can pay two different fees? B)

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my main point i would like to raise is that until i get the service i pay for i dont think they should be starting new things.

like i pay for pq's, but they often dont work. so until that is fixed then i dont think money should be sent elsewhere.

fine if everything was great and there is money to spare go ahead.

but how about making geocaching work first?

 

we dont proper maps or anything in the UK.. which i dont mind, but i do mind if pq's dont arrive.

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my main point i would like to raise is that until i get the service i pay for i dont think they should be starting new things.

like i pay for pq's, but they often dont work. so until that is fixed then i dont think money should be sent elsewhere.

fine if everything was great and there is money to spare go ahead.

but how about making geocaching work first?

 

we dont proper maps or anything in the UK.. which i dont mind, but i do mind if pq's dont arrive.

I've noticed that my PQs are arriving much quicker than before, and I haven't experienced the "Sunday Night Slowdown" in a long time. Not sure if you have noticed the improvements yet.

 

The software guys at Groundspeak aren't tooting their own horns, but maybe someone should, to make sure I'm not imagining all this. ;)

 

Apple Computer had two failures (Apple ///, Lisa) before they finally got something right with the Macintosh. Expenses were financed by sales of Apple II series in the mean time. Years later, Apple II customers got ditched.

 

I don't see the same happening with Geocaching, because I don't think Waymarking can replace it. I'm satisfied with my Premium Membership fees going to "development costs" for something new, even if it results in a failure or two, as long as the prices don't rise.

 

Sure beats the whining insurance companies who failed at assessing risk and are threatening to raise premiums on us because they didn't do their job of maintaining enough liquid assets, to cover the cost of Hurricane Katrina. :P

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...I look at this more like a magazine subscription. If I was paying for Time magazine, and they said "we're no longer taking editorials, but we'll let you know when you can see them again." Some time in the distant future, they came back and said "Ok, you still can't do editorials, but we're going to put this new magazine out that has things like editorials, and we think they're close enough - so there you have it." ...

I think that your analogy is flawed. This is a better one:

 

Imagine that you subscribe to a 4x4 magazine. The magazine has good coverage of rack crawlers as well as regular 4wd Jeeps and SUVs. At some point, they decide to focus just on the rock crawlers. Soon after, they launch a new magazine which has good coverage of conventional 4wd vehicles. They send this magazine to all of the original magazines subscribers for free.

 

Is there any reason for anyone to be upset by this? Those that just like rockcrawlers get their mag. Those that are only interested in conventional 4wd vehicles get theirs. Those that like them both, still get both.

 

It's all good.

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... There's a special feeling when one logs a locationless, and no one else can claim the find. More so when the location and the adventure were memorable. It's a better bragging right than find counts or FTFs IMHO. :laughing:

 

Too bad there isn't an easy way to stall implementation of Waymarking in places where supply of locationless are still plentiful, like in Japan. I'm willing to give Waymarking a chance, especially if it can come up with a way to recapture the "it's MY location and no one else can have it" feeling. :D

I guess that I am not understanding your point. You can still do this by finding objects that haven't been waymarked in categories that you are interested in.

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... There's a special feeling when one logs a locationless, and no one else can claim the find. More so when the location and the adventure were memorable.  It's a better bragging right than find counts or FTFs IMHO.  :laughing:

 

Too bad there isn't an easy way to stall implementation of Waymarking in places where supply of locationless are still plentiful, like in Japan. I'm willing to give Waymarking a chance, especially if it can come up with a way to recapture the "it's MY location and no one else can have it" feeling.  :D

I guess that I am not understanding your point. You can still do this by finding objects that haven't been waymarked in categories that you are interested in.

Thinking back, yes, I agree that the point I made was moot - people can "claim jump" a location by listing a Waymark, to potentially recapture the feeling of ownership I was referring to.

 

But in the context of the cacher's Geocaching profile where traditional, virtual, and locationless are listed together, I think my point is relevant, especially when one can look back on a trip through "Show all logs for Caches" list or by the Gallery, and reminisce about the adventure and the locationless "conquests."

 

There is another thread dealing with this issue: Do You Want All Finds Listed In One Account?

 

You caught me in my reminiscing mode.

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