Delorme To Introduce Handheld Gps

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I think this is a big deal. I'm going to try and find out if it will accept only proprietary raster (scanned) imagery. I just put up a post with more info at...

 

http://gpstracklog.typepad.com/gps_tracklo...view_delor.html

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[+Renegade Knight]

A Raster GPS came out about 3 or 4 years ago and it was greatly anticipated. I read notes by one person who bought it and then never another word.

 

This sounds like it's more user friendly, but that you will have to upgrade to Delorme Maps if you don't own them already.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

A Raster GPS came out about 3 or 4 years ago and it was greatly anticipated. I read notes by one person who bought it and then never another word.

Was that a professional unit? The only GPSR's I know of that accept raster images are pricey pro units or (non-ruggedized) PDA's.

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[+tflight]

Didn't they announce this back in early January?

[+Renegade Knight]

...Was that a professional unit? The only GPSR's I know of that accept raster images are pricey pro units or (non-ruggedized) PDA's....

It's been too long. I don't recall if it was meant to be a professional unit or a high end GPS for raster maps for the few who had need of the better maps. It was a goofy GPS though, I do recall that much.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Didn't they announce this back in early January?

That might be. They said they announced it at this year's Consumer Electronics Show. From a quick web search, it looks like that is held in January.

 

Do you know anything else about this unit?

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[peter]

It's been too long. I don't recall if it was meant to be a professional unit or a high end GPS for raster maps for the few who had need of the better maps. It was a goofy GPS though, I do recall that much.

Sounds like the "Digital Navigation Assistant" (DNA) by Navitrak. Instead of a screen you looked into a little viewer on the side which gave a much larger apparent image but was less convenient. It also had memory expansion cards (SD?) and I believe it sold for around $700. Marketing was to forest service and parks employees, search & rescue teams, etc. as well as to hikers and other outdoor enthusiasts. It used USGS 1:24000 topo maps and also had some GIS capabilities.

 

Seemed to only be on the market for a short time around 2002 and then disappeared.

[+M4T]

Can one of you guys explain to the noob (me!) why this is a big deal?

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Can one of you guys explain to the noob (me!) why this is a big deal?

Here is a brief primer on the difference between scanned / raster maps and the vector imagery that can be transferred to a GPS.

 

The DeLorme product will likely utilize a proprietary format, but I'm assuming you will be able to transfer 7.5' topo map images and aerial photos to the unit. One of these days, I hope we'll have an open format, ruggedized GPSR that will allow us to use our own scanned and calibrated maps, as can be done now with PDA programs like OziCE.

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[+tflight]

Do you know anything else about this unit?

Probably nothing more than you know although I will be down at DeLorme in the next few days and I'm planning to try and get some info. Back in January they said the unit would be released in July, it didn't come out then and it didn't come out with the other products they released in August.

[robertlipe]

If they're interested in GPSBabel support, send 'em my way.

[+JohnnyVegas]

Do you know anything else about this unit?

Probably nothing more than you know although I will be down at DeLorme in the next few days and I'm planning to try and get some info. Back in January they said the unit would be released in July, it didn't come out then and it didn't come out with the other products they released in August.

It could be they are having problems getting the unit to operate properly, or it could be they did not get enough orders to justify going into production.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I checked the link,

 

A new version of DeLorme Topo USA is planned for release in conjunction with the Earthmate GPS PN-20, tentatively scheduled for the first half of 2006

 

It looks like it's going to be a while. First half of 2006 gives them up to another 9 months.

[+Renegade Knight]

It's been too long. I don't recall if it was meant to be a professional unit or a high end GPS for raster maps for the few who had need of the better maps.  It was a goofy GPS though, I do recall that much.

Sounds like the "Digital Navigation Assistant" (DNA) by Navitrak. Instead of a screen you looked into a little viewer on the side which gave a much larger apparent image but was less convenient. It also had memory expansion cards (SD?) and I believe it sold for around $700. Marketing was to forest service and parks employees, search & rescue teams, etc. as well as to hikers and other outdoor enthusiasts. It used USGS 1:24000 topo maps and also had some GIS capabilities.

 

Seemed to only be on the market for a short time around 2002 and then disappeared.

That sounds like the one. Thanks.

[+M4T]

Can one of you guys explain to the noob (me!) why this is a big deal?

Here is a brief primer on the difference between scanned / raster maps and the vector imagery that can be transferred to a GPS.

 

The DeLorme product will likely utilize a proprietary format, but I'm assuming you will be able to transfer 7.5' topo map images and aerial photos to the unit. One of these days, I hope we'll have an open format, ruggedized GPSR that will allow us to use our own scanned and calibrated maps, as can be done now with PDA programs like OziCE.

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

Thanks for the info!

[stevesisti]

I don't see what all the fuss is about.....The definition of the unit is "handheld" and as such you're still looking at a screen and resolution size that would not take advantage of all the info on a std. USGS 1:24K topo map. The next question is...since there is no way to get any vector, or routing data from a raster map, this is probably going to be some sort of "hybrid" map either converted in the unit or beforehand with proprietary software, but either way, someone will have to supply the vector/navigation data and you can bet it's going to cost you.

 

Another intersting note...each USGS topo quad averages about 5megs of image data (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so the storage consideration would be enormous. I would also assume the processing demands would be equally large.

 

I would wait till more details come out, but you can be sure your not just going to be throwing the freely available usgs quads into one of these things and it's " off you go".

[+user13371]

I think one of the "big" things about this announcement doesn't have anything to do with the possibility of getting raster maps into the GPS.

 

As DeLorme is first and foremost a MAP company . I expect their own vector maps on this unit will blow away anything you can load on a Magellan, Garmin, or Lowrance unit.

 

Raising the bar, just a little.

[+JohnnyVegas]

From the delorme maps on CD etc that I have seen. they could be better, thought they are better than what Garmin or Magellan offer. They are still not as good as a USGS map.

 

regardless, any Topo map on a handheld GPS screen is not all the good. When you zoom in to get detail you lose the surounding area, when you zoom out to se more map you lose topo detail. You cannot beat a paper map.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

From the delorme maps on CD etc that I have seen. they could be better, thought they are better than what Garmin or Magellan offer.

I'm not sure what scale DeLorme maps are based on. I recently heard that even though Magellan and Lowrance show contour lines much closer than Garmin, all this software is based on the same data. The ones that show more detail appear to be interpolating!

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

[+tflight]

I recently heard that even though Magellan and Lowrance show contour lines much closer than Garmin, all this software is based on the same data.

I have a copy of Street Atlas 2006. What is interesting is that they don't appear to use the same data source as others, or perhaps the one they have is a more recent version. Every map I have ever seen of the tiny street I live on is drawn perpendicular to where it should be. Garmin, Lowrance, Google, MSN, etc all have it drawn incorrect.... except DeLorme. For whatever reason (that I'd like to find out) they are the only ones that have drawn it correctly.

[kerecsen]

I have a copy of Street Atlas 2006. What is interesting is that they don't appear to use the same data source as others [...] Garmin, Lowrance, Google, MSN, etc all have it drawn incorrect.... except DeLorme.

There are only a handful of data providers (especially when it comes to routable maps), and everyone is using their data. The two biggest ones are NavTEQ and TeleAtlas. NavTEQ is more expensive but has somewhat better routing and street level detail in most areas of the US. TeleAtlas, on the other hand, has a better POI database and better coverage of the byways and unpaved roads.

 

In Europe TeleAtlas is generally preferred, especially in the eastern regions.

(In general TeleAtlas's technology is rumored to be better, and their standards are considered to be higher than that of NavTEQ. The reason why TeleAtlas kind of sucks in the US is that their US maps come from the acquisition of an American company called Etak, and they haven't yet invested enough money to correct (or re-build) that data.)

 

Garmin, Google Maps and MSN Maps (as well as yahoo maps, mapquest, and pretty much everyone else) use NavTEQ, so you should see the exact same mistakes on all those maps -- unless they are using an obsolete version. Based on some press releases, I'm guessing Lowrance uses NavTEQ too.

 

Garmin used to use Etak up until City Select (v5), and then switched over to NavTEQ -- about the same time when Etak was bought out by TeleAtlas. There are some people who still use the Etak-based versions because of their superior off-road coverage...

 

The only publicly available map I know of that uses TeleAtlas data is Google Earth. Take a look, they too may have gotten your street right.

 

DeLorme makes its own maps, and my understanding is that their electronic maps aren't up to par with the big two's.

[peter]

Garmin used to use Etak up until City Select (v5), and then switched over to NavTEQ

Good summary of the map sources. But Garmin's City Select-NA and City Navigator-NA products were always NavTech (now NavTeq) based. Those products started with v4.00 and continue through today's v7. It was version 4 of MetroGuide-USA that was TeleAtlas/ETAK based and starting with version 5 it was switched to NavTeq maps consistent with CS and CN.

[+geobc]

I don't know how well rasterized maps will work on a handheld GPS...unless the only view you're interested in is at 100%. With OziExplorer, zooming out on a rasterized map results in a sometimes difficult to read image. I imagine it would only be worse on a tiny handheld display.

 

If they made something the size of, say, a small Windows tablet or portable DVD player, then the screen would be large enough that a rasterized image would be ok.

 

GeoBC

[kerecsen]

Good summary of the map sources.  But Garmin's City Select-NA and City Navigator-NA products were always NavTech (now NavTeq) based.

Thanks for the clarification, I was trying to skimp over the detail just there

 

And to highlight another historical curiosity: v5 wasn't "City Select v7 NA", it was "North American City Select v5". I'm sure there is a perfectly valid weird marketing reason for that change...

[robertlipe]

Garmin, Google Maps and MSN Maps (as well as yahoo maps, mapquest, and pretty much everyone else) use NavTEQ, so you should see the exact same mistakes on all those maps --

[ ... ]

The only publicly available map I know of that uses TeleAtlas data is Google Earth. Take a

Nice summary. In the name of completeness, I'll offer that Magellan (via DirectRoute and Topo/3D) also licenses the the Navteq, nee Navtech, street and POI data. Careful observation will turn up the same data - even down to the same mistakes - in both CitySelect/City Navigator and DirectRoute.

 

I think Google Earth is transitioning to Navtech data.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

I don't know how well rasterized maps will work on a handheld GPS...unless the only view you're interested in is at 100%.  With OziExplorer, zooming out on a rasterized map results in a sometimes difficult to read image.  I imagine it would only be worse on a tiny handheld display.

These are excellent points about topo maps, but don't forget aerial photos. As provided via TerraServer, these come in resolutions of 1, 4, 16 and 64 meters per pixel, with the Urban color imagery offering an additional resolution of 0.25 m/pixel. I don't recall, right off the top of my head however, how DeLorme handles zooming aerial data packets (ADPs), their proprietary format (and the likely format for this new device).

 

Rasterized topos probably wouldn't be the best handheld application, though being able to switch to them for a 100% detailed view might be nice. Consider however the option of being able to toggle between, or layer, vector maps and aerial photos. I can think of some great uses for that sort of technology.

 

Rich Owings

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

www.GPStracklog.com

 

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey

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[+tflight]

I asked my DeLorme contact about raster imagery and he said "that's all yet to be worked out".