Mass Cache Destruction, I.e. Katrina

[mapwom]

I relized this topic pales in comparison to the propety distruction and human suffering caused by this disater, but has anyone taken a guess as to how many caches might have been destroyed by Katrinia? Would a wholesale disabling of caches in the effected area make sense? If a cache wasn't crushed, buried, floated, or blown away, than the eventual reconstruction of an area might finally do it in anyway.

 

Mapwom

[+Renegade Knight]

I think it's worth discussion.

 

This is my opinion. In time people will seek them out and find them or not and things will take care of themselves. Plus the ownes will eventually check up on them and take care of it. However it's just not going to be a priority. Everone who would seek them and who might benifit from having them disabled, is busy. Given time it will all sort out.

[+StarBrand]

This is my opinion. In time people will seek them out and find them or not and things will take care of themselves. Plus the ownes will eventually check up on them and take care of it. However it's just not going to be a priority. Everone who would seek them and who might benifit from having them disabled, is busy. Given time it will all sort out.

I agree - much more important matters at hand - let things settle down and searchers will let us know and owner checks can verify. Don't want to create geo-litter by disabling or archiving prematurally.

[+dkwolf]

Maybe the solution would be to add another option to the disable/archive options.

 

"Cache area affected by recent disaster/event"

 

This could be used for areas hit by wildfires, floods, tornadoes, earthquakes, and hurricanes, and could maybe be blanket applied to all caches in a known affected zip code. Could have it's own flag on the search page,maybe the cache title in a different color, or italics to show that the condition of the cache is unknown. Then finders would have the choice of seeking out the cache or waiting for the owner to check on it, and anyone who finds the cache in good condition then has the option to remove it from the 'affected' list and return it to a normal listing. Having the system automatically insert a log into the cache page describing the date and nature of the event would be good for cache history, and later reference.

 

This would be a good feature to add to the website, and as such, I will post it in the website forums.

 

(Mods, if you wish this to be removed here to avoid dual posting/discussion, let me know, or feel free to do so yourselves.)

[+KKTH3]

I agree as well. About a year ago I was in Louisiana on vacation walking the same streets that are now covered with water. We found a number of caches on that trip and it was the only time I have ever been caching in an area where the cache density was so great you could actually pick and choose what to look for rather than take everything available because so little was available. We found maybe half of the caches we actually looked for, but even of the ones we did find we saw a lot of ingenious hides that certainly had a chance of surviving that storm. A blanket disabling really wouldnt be fair. Eventually life will be back to some degree of normalcy along the Gulf Coast and people will have the time to start up caching again. From what I saw there was a very active caching community in the area and I expect the spirit of that will return as well. Many caches will be lost and of those some may not even have a shot of being replaced, but those decisions will come down the road at their appropriate time.

[+robert]

disabled or not, I don't know that people are going to be seeking them anytime soon.

[Pto]

I looked at Buxley maps of Mississippi The New Orleans Area Alabama

 

there are an aweful lot of caches right near the water- so presumably they are ALL

gone. As was stated- Far more important things are needed before anyone cares about geocaches......

 

Praying for a quick recovery . .. .

[+wimseyguy]

I'm heading to NO in a week or three to help my brother who just moved there at the beginning of the summer. Instead of a visit filled with food, music and caching, I'll be scraping the muck out of the home he just bought, emptying out the refrigerator of month old spoiled food, and helping him, his wife, and three young children put his life back together.

 

So instead of debating rediculous topics like this one, discuss micros, waymarks, or some other angsty topic. If you want to discuss the hurricane, do it in a productive manner like how can we help those people, some of whom we have gotten to know via these forums, and haven't heard from since Monday like drat19, billsbayou, caderoux, etc.

 

OP or moderators-please shut this one down.

[+GeoJunkie]

I've got a good friend we haven't heard back from yet. Also, drat19 helped me with a couple caches while I was in Biloxi on business. This is very surreal. I really hope everybody's OK.

[Pto]

So instead of debating rediculous topics like this one, discuss micros, waymarks, or some other angsty topic. If you want to discuss the hurricane, do it in a productive manner like. . .

 

I agree with the logic of your post- I have family and freinds in the area- so I understand your concerns, but. . . .Sometimes, people like to hide from the real world, and escape the daily tragedies occuring everyday in the world around us.

 

THis is a Geocaching board, where all things geocaching related are discussed by Geocachers. This topic is located in the "Geocaching topics" forum, and the OP's post IS geocaching related. The OP addresses some of your concern by starting out with I relized this topic pales in comparison. . . which lets you know they arent ignoring THAT part of it, but rather asking a Geocaching related question.

 

I personally Dont want to discuss the hurricane - If I did, then I would go to an appropriate board, and post There. (CNN, newspaper sites, redcross.org, etc)

 

HERE, we are talking geocaching.

 

If you would rather the discussion be about the things you mention- those topics would Not be caching related, and therefor Off Topic, and subject to moderation.

 

See the difference?

 

Its not that I dont care about what happened, its just that THIS isnt the place for That kind of discussion.

[+tabulator32]

God bless everyone in the three state area affected by Hurricane Katrina.

 

As for the topic of caches in Louisiana...why the heck not?!

 

I have concern for the lives affected and I care about what happens to them, however, I'm not one to stand around traumatized by the whole thing for weeks on end.

 

Take action if you want. Do something beneficial to the cause. Help out where you can. I've already donated to the Red Cross through both of my jobs.

 

Just don't attack people for asking a question about caching on a caching forum. Its not like we're not allowed to discuss anything else about Louisiana. I agree its way down there on the priority list but geocaching will go on and part of the return to "normalcy" is getting caches up and running eventually.

 

Good question, Mapwom. I was curious myself.

 

[+mtn-man]

I am the reviewer for MS and LA.

I think those people have much more to worry about than whether to archive their caches or not.

 

How about we give these people a bit of a break. My biggest worry is whether they are alive, not whether I should be looking at whether we need to archive their caches or not.

[+Happy Bubbles]

I don't see why disabling them all would be needed. The point of disabling is to let finders know something's up, and that should be pretty obvious to anyone who could be caching in that area for awhile.

[+briansnat]

Geocaching is just one of many things in the victim's lives that won't be the same for a long, long time. Though in the scheme of things its unimportant, it is still a legit topic for this forum.

 

I'm sure there are many other hobbists who are are discussing the affect of the hurricane on their hobby, sport, or activity in their own forums. Boaters are probably discussing the loss of marinas, youth soccer coaches are probably discussing the loss of playing fields, archaeologists are probably discussing the destructon of archaeological sites, gourmands are probably discussing the loss of restaurants, football fans are probably discussing where the Saints will be playing, etc...

 

Taken by themselves, each of these actvities can be dismissed as "unimportant in the scheme of things", but as a whole they are part of what makes life normal.

Edited September 3, 2005 by briansnat

[+mtn-man]

I didn't close the topic because I agree it could be a topic for discussion. I just don't think there is anything you can do at this time but wait. There are some important questions you have to ask.

 

How do you determine how far out you disable caches? What about Florida? It got hit too, so do you start disabling caches down there too? Where do you draw the line for where you step in?

 

Last year Florida got hammered by four hurricanes of differing strengths and crossing different paths. Eventually all of these caches worked themselves out without intervention. I went to seek two during last year's season. I got to one and the Suwannee River was way over flood stage. The GPS pointed into the water and the cache was an ammo can. I posted a SBA note I think. Later on during the trip, I knew where a TBug hotel was in Orlando near the airport. I did not look at the cache page and went to trade some TBugs. A big snarl of trees was down crushing the fence the cache was behind. I looked anyway but saw no cache. I went back and looked at the cache page and the cache owner had gone out and found his box and had moved it slightly to keep it active. I think the cacher had roof damage and all, but they still fixed their cache.

 

I think you have to allow things to work themselves out here too. Until someone goes to see if they can find the cache, you have no idea what the condition is. It might be in an area that has very little water, it could be a magnetic micro and therefore it could be fine. Only the cache owner or the next cacher to seek the cache will be able to help determine that.

[+The Leprechauns]

One of my micros along the Allegheny River survived being under several feet of water during the Hurricane Ivan floods last fall. I disabled it, checked on it after the city cleaned up the mess, and it was dry as a bone, magneted right where it was supposed to be. The cache is hidden somewhere near the trees and brush on the left side of this photo:

 

 

I would've been very upset if some sort of automatic process had been used to disable the caches in our area. By and large, the local cache owners did a good job in checking on their caches and disabling them when appropriate. And on Geocaching.com's side, extra time was given for flood-affected caches to be repaired -- not the usual month or two before a reminder notice was sent.

 

Of course, none of the above prevented certain individuals from posting their hopes that the flood would sweep away all the terrible microcaches. Apparently that was more important than the hundreds of homes and businesses damaged or destroyed in the floods. You do encounter all kinds of people in this game.

[+southdeltan]

I've got a good friend we haven't heard back from yet. Also, drat19 helped me with a couple caches while I was in Biloxi on business. This is very surreal. I really hope everybody's OK.

Drat19 is alive and well (relatively speaking). He and his wife are at his cousin, TarribleT's house. Drat lost his house but T's house is standing (not sure the condition).

 

DRat sent me several brief text messages from his phone 2 days ago to tell us he was ok.

 

Those are the only cachers we have heard from. I know many of the NOLA cachers evacuated before but not sure about all of them.

 

The MSGA is setting up a list of geocachers we know live in that area. Unfortunately not all cachers supplied us with locations so we may miss some. There are also cachers who not very active (or were new, geocached a brief time and quit) so we will probably not be able to provide info on them. There are a core of 10 or 20 cachers down there that we will POSSIBLY be able to find out about.

 

There is also a thread on the LA Geocaching Assoc. website for people to check in. We have the same (or at least a place to post people until we get a more comprehensive list).

 

Anyways - Drat19 and TarribleT are ok. We'll let you know more when we know more.

 

Keep MS and LA in your prayers.

 

southdeltan

[+LSUFan]

Mapwom, I asked the same question the night of the hurricane. I guess emotions were running pretty high that night because I had to lock the forum down after the responses started getting ugly. It does seem cooler heads are prevailing now and posting in your forum. I also thought it was a legitimate question to ask, but I guess my timing was bad.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=107181

 

Mtn-man, you better rest up. When everybody's lives get's back on track in LA and MS, you're going to have a ton of caches to approve.

Edited September 3, 2005 by LSUFan

[+backinthesaddle]

I agree with wimseyguy, give it a rest. My brother lost everything in the Lakewood neighborhood of NO. The enormity of this tradegy is just overwhelming. He is safe in Baton Rouge in a relative's "camp", but spending his time with his wife and 3 yr old boy pondering his future, anxious to find what he can save, but dreading it at the same time.

This is the first week since I began caching, that I have not been out to cache at all. It just seemed trivial and silly with everything that is going on, not to mention the sudden spike in gas prices. But I am recovering, as New Orleans will recover too. In a mont or so, when the waters recede, I will take a weeks vacation to help him clean out his house, or help him move, if that is what his decision is. But while I am there, I am sure I will place a few caches, and find a few too!

 

Happy Trails!

[+southdeltan]

The following people have checked in on LaGeocaching. They are ok. (And scattered all across the South).

 

whatchacallits

rpecot

menace21

shortcircuit2

mausdad

miata2k

Buck8Point/LaAnthropology

BillsBayou

caderoux

BigDoggy

GatorGrl & BF

ClayJar (CJ lives in Baton Rouge I beleive, but since people have asked - he is ok).

 

I will post more as information becomes available.

 

We still have not heard from any other MS GulfCoast cachers besides Drat19 and TarribleT. There are only a handful of active geocachers on the Gulfcoast. It's unlikely they have a way to communicate if they did not evacuate.

 

sd

[+wimseyguy]

A huge THANKS to Southdeltan for the update on the geocachers in the affected area that some of us have gotten to know over the years. Please keep them coming, and I am glad to hear that you and yours are mostly OK. I was very concerned about drat19. I know he lives right on the water in Biloxi.

 

Thanks to Mtn-Man and Lep for putting the proper perspective on this trivial thread.

 

To anyone who thinks I was attacking the OP or going off topic in my earlier post.

Bah- I was trying to direct the topic onto the poeple, not the trivial things they may have lost. That is very much a geocaching topic. If it weren't for the people we meet here and have FUN with, well, this wouldn't be that much fun at least for me.

 

You'll know an attack when I make one though.

[+GrizzlyJohn]

The following people have checked in on LaGeocaching. They are ok. (And scattered all across the South).

 

Southdeltan -- thanks for all of that information. Some of those names I know some I don't but it is good to hear about all of them.

 

Just a suggestion. Maybe you want to pull this info out to it own thread. It may get lost in this one. Then others as well can add in those they have heard from and it would all be in one place. Again just a suggestion, thanks for the info.

[+mtn-man]

Many thanks southdeltan. I continue to be worried, but that helps out a ton. I hope Oilman, Bamboozle and 30/90 are OK but just have not been able to check in. There are so many others.

 

I too want to thank Leprechauns for his post. Very good example and perspective on the situation. Having found that cache I was surprised it was OK but it shows that you just never know and we have to wait so see first hand, not just make assumptions. Things will work themselves out one way or another.

[+mtn-man]

Just a suggestion. Maybe you want to pull this info out to it own thread. It may get lost in this one. Then others as well can add in those they have heard from and it would all be in one place. Again just a suggestion, thanks for the info.

Unfortunately, the two issues of whether cachers are OK and what to do with their caches are somewhat intertwined. We can discuss the bigger issues, and we seem to have come to something of a concensus about the bigger issues, but as we find out who is where and what their futures are then some caches may need to be dealt with.

 

Eventually this topic probably should be moved to the Southeast Forum area. For example, if it was determined that I was OK but could no longer geocache, it might be good to use this topic to see if people want to keep my caches going through adoption. This will be a life changing event for many and we need to see how things shake out for everyone.

 

I am sure the moderators will discuss this topic and decide when and/or if it should be moved. I am pleased that the discussion is staying on topic and constructive.

[+TeamK-9]

After the Hurricane Ivan floods, a local cacher got pocket queries for names of all the local caches, and put them on a website. People could then mark the caches as missing, unkown, or verified in place. Maybe something similar could be set up for the areas affected by Katrina.

 

But please guys, let's not start worrying about whether the caches are there until they can actually finish the first stages of rescue/recovery work...

 

The question posted is valid though, and I think it is something to be discussed, even if immediate action is not necessary..

[+GrizzlyJohn]

Unfortunately, the two issues of whether cachers are OK and what to do with their caches are somewhat intertwined. We can discuss the bigger issues, and we seem to have come to something of a concensus about the bigger issues, but as we find out who is where and what their futures are then some caches may need to be dealt with.

 

Eventually this topic probably should be moved to the Southeast Forum area. For example, if it was determined that I was OK but could no longer geocache, it might be good to use this topic to see if people want to keep my caches going through adoption. This will be a life changing event for many and we need to see how things shake out for everyone.

 

I am sure the moderators will discuss this topic and decide when and/or if it should be moved. I am pleased that the discussion is staying on topic and constructive.

To some degree I do get your point. But for right now I think the real concern is about the people that we all know in some way in that area.

 

If a cache exists or not in any of these areas right now, really does not matter. You can't get there anyway. I think it is worth talking about the caches in that area and how to best handle them as areas begin to open up and regular people can start going back in that area and trying to get back to normal.

 

I think both issues are important. My original point was only to say that maybe it would be good to just have one place where everyone could check in and see who someone has heard from. Or maybe a place where someone could check in and say they are OK, if they are able. I would like to see that type of thread to remain in this forum. And maybe eventually a thread that deals with the issues of caches in the southeastern forum. But I am not suggesting to move this thread anywhere for right now.

 

My thinking on this is that people everywhere are concerned right now about folks in that area and would like to know what we can about them. The issue of caches in that same area and how to handle them going forward may only best be answered by people in that area and likely not until much of what is going on shakes out some more. I don't think anyone right now is expecting to be caching in NO or the gulf coast any time soon.

 

Sorry I think both points are important and worth talking about. I just think they are different. I want to hear about who we know is OK, I really don't care much about the caches in that area right now. That time will come soon enough. It was just a suggestion, if everyone else is fine with the two points being together hey that's fine also.

[+MountainMudbug]

Thank you, southdeltan, for the update on La area cachers - great to hear that many of them are confirmed OK. Our condolences go out to those who have lost so much.

 

My folks, Lily Pad and Zorro, were able to safely evacuate from the Slidell area. Yesterday they drove back to see what remained and thankfully last night word was relayed to me that their houses are still standing with mininal wind and water damage. Trees fell on their vehicles and their small warehouse was reportedly flattened by a large live oak.

They own caches that mostly likely suffered damage (at least two that were most likely destroyed) but that is so far down the list of things now. Still, I can't help but be curious if our small magnetic cache right along the lakefront on the northshore managed to hold on to its hiding spot against that incredible surge of water....

 

Still waiting on word about so many friends and neighbors along the Coast.

[+treasure_hunter]

disabled or not, I don't know that people are going to be seeking them anytime soon.

Exactly, there probably is no caches to seek. In places they said the water was over 20ft high, that would pretty much wipe out all the local caches. There are probably ammo cans and film canisters lying everywhere now.

[+mtn-man]

disabled or not, I don't know that people are going to be seeking them anytime soon.

Exactly, there probably is no caches to seek. In places they said the water was over 20ft high, that would pretty much wipe out all the local caches. There are probably ammo cans and film canisters lying everywhere now.

I think you must have not read Leprechauns post.

[+mtn-man]

My original point was only to say that maybe it would be good to just have one place where everyone could check in and see who someone has heard from.

That place is the Louisiana Geocachers forums. I know the GGA Forums have had a topic going about the status of friends and relatives of GGA members. I think it is nice of southdeltan to update us here with information that is being posted in the local forums. I have posted updates on my family in our GGA forums, but I also posted in the Cheers topic here in the OT section once I found out that they have been praying for me and my family (many thanks to the Cheerios; their prayers seem to have been heard).

 

This is an emotional topic.

[+1stimestar]

It will take a minimum of 3 months for the water to be pumped out. It also depends on if they can get all the pumps back up and running and how much rain they get in the mean time. The last report I heard was pumping capacity was one inch per hour.

[+southdeltan]

I think you must have not read Leprechauns post.

I think you don't know the difference between a flood and a storm surge. Many of the caches in NOLA may survive and some of those on the gulf coast may as well. But come on - the water picked up buildings and boats and threw them hundreds of yards inland. In some areas 90 percent of the structures south of I-10 are gone.

 

It's almost as if some posts are trying to minimize the damage in MS and LA. They are still evacuating people from NOLA. They are still looking for survivors in both places. NOLA will be empty for months. It may take that long just to get the water out.

 

Caches are unimportant. It just seems like people aren't grasping the magnitude of this disaster. Even if those caches are there - nobody will be looking for them anytime soon.

 

-----------

 

We will put up a page showing the status (have they been heard from) of MS Gulf Coast and SE LA cachers. This will be difficult because they will likely have no means of communication and for most who weren't active geocachers letting people know will be of little or no importance to them. I do expect to hear from other active geocachers as soon as they get in a place where they can. We still are waiting for news from folks like LeftyGator and the KayakingTwillbecks - as well as our friends over in NOLA such as Bamboozle.

 

I do urge you to go ahead and help in whatever way you can (be careful about donations, go to people you've heard of... scam artists are were already seeking donations as early as Monday night).

 

We will be posting more as the info comes in. We will also be doing any and everything we can to help our geocacher friends and others in these areas.

 

sd

[+robert]

It just seems like people aren't grasping the magnitude of this disaster. Even if those caches are there - nobody will be looking for them anytime soon.

This is precisely the point I was trying to make earlier. Disabling them is pointless, and as was suggested, the owners will check them when the time comes. Forget the caches, find the people and get them food and water first, then worry about the caches.

 

You can replace the caches.

[+Miragee]

The impact on the people is unfathomable to me. After the devastating fires in Southern California two years ago, I was without electricity for five days, but I had a roof over my head, a working bathroom, and could sleep in my own bed.

 

My heart goes out to all those people.

 

To get an idea about the damage to the infrastructure, check out the pictures here.

 

Look at the damage to I-10.

[+treasure_hunter]

disabled or not, I don't know that people are going to be seeking them anytime soon.

Exactly, there probably is no caches to seek. In places they said the water was over 20ft high, that would pretty much wipe out all the local caches. There are probably ammo cans and film canisters lying everywhere now.

I think you must have not read Leprechauns post.

I guess you didnt hear that "Katrina may eventually be classified as the worst natural disaster to hit the United States to date."

"At 12:40 a.m. CDT (0540 UTC) on August 28, Katrina was upgraded to Category 4. Later that morning, Katrina went through a period of rapid intensification, with its maximum sustained winds reaching as high as 175 mph (280 km/h) (well above the Category 5 threshold of 156 mph (250 km/h)) and a pressure of 906 mbar by 1:00 p.m. CDT. Nonetheless, on August 29 the system made landfall as a strong Category 4 hurricane at 6:15 a.m. CDT near Buras-Triumph, Louisiana with maximum sustained winds of 145 mph (235 km/h)."

 

Ivan is small compared to Katrina.

 

Im not saying that there are no caches there still standing im just saying that, if there are its a miracle. Just because one cache withstood Ivan, doesnt mean that other caches withstood a worse Hurricane.

[+Miragee]

This cache, the "View Carre," is still there . . . but it will be a long while before anyone can get to it.

 

Read the logs and notes . . .

[+Team Dromomania]

I did a search of New Orleans caches. There are a little less than 700 caches within a 100 miles radius. Since last Monday there have only been a few finds within that radius and they were made by a FEMA person taking a break 70 miles away (direct line) in Baton Rouge.

 

I give a big NO to disabling any of those caches. When geocaching returns to that area the owners and cachers will determine what needs disabling. There is no need to do any armchair guessing about their status.

 

A final note: If I were with FEMA, Red Cross, Military, etc. I *WOULD* search for caches on any free time I might get (I know that's very unlikely) - if for nothing else just to see if I could find some that survived. But if they had been disabled then my PQ wouldn't pick them up for me to do a search.

[+southdeltan]

From the MSGA forum:

 

Got a rare opp'y to be in a powered and connected building today and get online, so if any of y'all post replies I may not see them for a while.

 

Our families are all alive and reasonably well. Some perspective: My wife and I lived in a group of 3 family homes in East Biloxi...next door to us was my Dad-in-law and 2 of my wife's siblings, and next door to that 2 of my Dad-in-law's siblings.

 

We rode out the storm on the 2nd floor of my Dad-in-law's house, going under the same assumption as everyone else - "it couldn't be worse than Camille was". My Dad-in-law's house did not flood during Camille...the 3 houses are at around 20 ft elevation...a "neighborhood high spot" if you will.

 

Wrong. All 3 of our houses were flooded by Katrina (around 6 ft), and all contents, except what we could salvage the last few days, ruined. However, it was a blessing that we stayed....we pulled out 4 neighboring families as the water rose and they rode out the storm with us upstairs.

 

We are also blessed in that we are able to stay at our cousin (and fellow cacher) TarribleT's house in West Biloxi...he sustained a bit of roof damage but otherwise is in good shape.

 

So, while I'm technically "homeless", I consider myself and my family members to be FAR more fortunate than so many others throughout the Coast (and N.O. of course) who are in far, far worse shape. We will be OK.

 

Thanks to all for thoughts and prayers, and we'll talk again as I am able.

 

-Dave R. ('drat19') in Biloxi

 

sd

[+mtn-man]

Funny. I am a bit of an weather nut. I watch the weather channel quite often actually. I am one that has written to them asking if they will release Trammel Stark's music that is played during the updates on the 8's. Yep, I'm a weather geek. It drives my wife crazy sometimes.

 

treasure_hunter, I knew exactly what was coming. When my dad told me that my aunt had only gone to Covington (across the causeway to the other side of Pontchartrain), I asked him why they didn't go to Oklahoma. I'm not exaggerating, that is exactly what I said. I was serious. The storm was almost the size of Texas. I endured 100 MPH winds in Auburn, AL during Opal in 1995, and that is about 125 miles away from the coast. Going through one teaches you a lot. It teaches you to get out -- period. At this time one of my relatives is still missing, thank you. I totally understand what happened.

 

Yes, I do know the difference between a flood and storm surge. Frankly, I am surprised that the surge along the Mississippi coast was not higher and did not go further inland that it in fact did. Let me show you with actual factual information.

 

http://digitalglobe.com/katrina_gallery.html

 

Digital Globe has provided some incredible pictures of the damage throughout the gulf coast. Some of the images show that my aunt's house is indeed in the 17th Street levee breach flood area in New Orleans. They also graphically show the effects of the storm surge along the Mississippi coastline.

 

 

Looking at this image from the Digital Globe PDF document titled "Hurricane_Katrina-Mississippi_Coastline.pdf", you can see that basically the storm surge picked up all of the houses, crushed them into small pieces and deposited them 2000 feet inland. Other pictures show similar damage, except near the Biloxi peninsula. It was pretty much overrun, probably partially due to the lack of heavy vegetation. Debris running into other trees, vegetation and other structures slow the storm surge progress as illustrated in the difference in the rural areas and the casino areas.

 

Bringing this home and back on topic, the storm surge is a very small area of destruction when you look at the big picture. The area appears to be roughly 1/2 mile wide, while the wind destruction goes inland for at least 200 to 300 times that distance. Yes, I would imagine that almost every cache within the 1/2 mile strip of the storm surge area is probably gone. Still, we have all seen some miraculous stories of survival in other areas. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

By the way, Google Maps have now added a Katrina tab showing the satellite photo inline with the rest of the maps. The images are very dark though. Google is amazing. It includes the area near my aunt's house and you can see how I-610 dips in and out of the water.

 

(Edited since my web hosting company appears to have gone down tonight. I uploaded the image to my mindspring account so it will display properly.)

Edited September 4, 2005 by mtn-man

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I just got back from an assignment that had me circle southern Mississippi. I volunteer as a radio operator for the Salvation Army Team Emergency Network (SATERN) and the American Red Cross Emergency Services (ARCES) and expect to be sent south again tomorrow.

 

My route took me from Birmingham, AL. across I-20W to Jackson MS, then down Hwy. 49S to the Harrison County Emergency Operations Command (EOC) at 17th and 24th in downtown Gulfport, then up Hwy. 53N to the Poplarville EOC, then I-59N to Meridian and I-20E back home.

 

Everything within that circle is a disaster. The news so far has focused on the coast and particularly New Orleans, but we saw massive damage as far as 150 miles inland.

 

We (I and a buddy geocacher and fellow ham operator, Moonsilver, KI4IBQ) simply ran out of time, being somewhat otherwise occupied by our mission, but did discuss geocaching while in Gulfport.

 

We camped in a closed campground near Hwy. 49 and I-10 but couldn't get a wi-fi signal in that area to pull a PQ. Well, we actually did have a signal at one time, but it was weak and slow and I fell asleep waiting on IE to load!

 

FEMA and related agencies had wi-fi up and running at the Harrison EOC, but we figured downloading PQs wasn't a very wise use of their bandwidth!

 

Anyhoo - on the topic of geocaches - please leave them alone.

 

I don't know if you have ever been in a hurricane or tornado zone, but the way they work is pretty weird - one house may be leveled and the house next door undamaged. Some areas as we drove down the highway were perfectly normal - maybe miles where not a single broken tree limb could be seen, followed by miles where every structure and quite a lot of the forest is one tangled heap.

 

In such a situation I believe that, above the actual storm-surge or flood areas, there is no reason to believe that the majority of caches did not survive.

 

Having seen a couple thousand caches now I believe that flooding is the only natural calamity to affect most caches. Of the 90,000 square miles affected by Katrina only a small portion experienced any flooding.

 

Yes, we will lose some caches, and many will be inaccessible for months, but let 'em sit - geocachers and cache owners will check on them in due time.

 

I will be working this disaster for quite some time, and fully intend to find some caches in my downtime wherever I am sent. I won't be surprised to see other relief volunteers doing a bit of caching on their off hours as well!

 

Y'all be careful out there! Love those around you and treat them every minute as if it was the last time you'll see them - it may well be.

[+southdeltan]

From the LAGeocaching forums:

 

GatorGrl posts:

 

Bam checked in with me; they're at View Carre doing okay (for now).

 

Bam would be Bamboozle.

 

--

 

Also:

 

Oilman and Fuzzylogic have checked in ok.

 

sd

[+drat19]

If you read Southdeltan's post above where he posted a copy of my post to MSGA, then you now know my status. Thanks to all for everyone's concern, thoughts, and prayers.

 

I'll be back on the trails eventually!

-Dave R. in Biloxi

[+lilbluyze]

I note a bit of anger in some of these responses. Which is normal. Yes, I think it is most important to ask what we can do to help the victims of this tragic event. I, myself have worked as a member of a Flood Recovery team for an area that was flooded several years ago. I also worked the Disaster Recovery Center for in Port LaVaca, TX after Hurricane Claudette.

 

No, I don't know what it is like to be a victim of either of these tragedies. But, I do know the stories and emotions these people their friends and their families feel and tell. They are horrible, very painful to hear and hard to imagine. One thing we can do to help is stay away unless you are planning to help and are qualified and healthy enough to do so.

 

I understand the concern for the geocaches in this area and the concern for the Geocache community. I don't believe it is anyone's intention to minimize the disaster, the pain or loss of any person affected directly or indirectly.

 

At this point these caches are insignificant. But there are people out there that won't think things through and attempt to find them (because they aren't diabled) thinking they are still accessable. Some may even use this as an excuse to go see what has happened.

 

If you've never been a part of such a thing you have no idea how dangerous it is to go into this area. The flood waters are TOXIC with waste, chemicals, etc. that have seeped into or disolved in the water. The diseases mentioned are a REAL and a MAJOR concern. Going there unprotected and unprepared could make you sick or even kill. The debris can be fatal for any one trying to climb around.

 

Considering archiving these caches may be a wise decision on the part of our moderators.

Lilbluyze

[+Team Dromomania]

Going there unprotected and unprepared could make you sick or even kill. The debris can be fatal for any one trying to climb around.

 

Considering archiving these caches may be a wise decision on the part of our moderators.

I still disagree. For one I don't see an army of geocachers rushing in those areas. But the real problem is which caches would you archive? 1/2 mile in from the coast. 10 miles in? 100 miles in? Until a cacher or the owner can get into these areas nobody will know. As a listing agent Geocaching.com will list what they are told are out there and they will remove what they are told are missing. The way I understand things the reviewers will only step in when they get a complaint and/or can't contact the owner a cache. Of course, they know the rules much better than I.

 

Last year a major fire burned through the mountains near me. The owners of several caches are out of the area. When it was safe I hiked 18-20 miles over hills and mountains to check upon the caches in the burnt area - mainly because I was curious. I thought all but a couple would be lost. To my surprise only one was destroyed and one slightly damaged. The fires did reach the others but various factors prevented damage such as the ammo box in an empty water trough. I found the trough's wooden legs burnt off and sitting on the scorched earth but the ammo box and contents were just fine. My armchairing was wrong.

 

You can see some of the pictures here.

[+Team Dromomania]

I just checked the caches within a 100 miles of New Orleans. As expected there are no signs of normal caching within a 100 miles with only a few being done by FEMA members. Some owners are disabling their own caches until they can check upon them. I think things will work out on their own as they always have in the past. There is no need to invent new rules and regulations IMOHO.

[+GeoBlank]

The rule of 528 feet between caches must not have applied in new orleans?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/map/getmap.aspx?...17&lon=-90.0965

 

Amazing number in this one park alone.

[+Jeep_Dog]

IMO, "floods", "storm-surges" and archiving/disabling are all moot. I continue to keep all folks who live in the entire area affected by the hurricane in my prayers.

 

The main reason I think the archiving discussion is moot revolves around the fact as to whom the archive is intended. Well, I would guess this would be for any possible cachers wanting to go geocaching in that region. I am thinking that if anyone can manage to get into the region, the last thing they are thinking about is searching out caches. This rules out the necessity of archiving or disabling said caches. Those in the region are either trying to get out or are relief workers. From the photos I have seen, I doubt that either groups are interested in caching.

 

I admit, after the hurricane I peeked at the caches based upon zip code. I was hoping to find a recent disable or archive... but not for caching reasons. I figured that if a cache owner has the presence of mind to disable or archive their cache, then they are probably alive and relatively fine, and one less geocacher that I had to keep in the "immediate need of prayer" list.

[+KKTH3]

The rule of 528 feet between caches must not have applied in new orleans?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/map/getmap.aspx?...17&lon=-90.0965

 

Amazing number in this one park alone.

Yes, there are a ton of caches in City Park, but that park is absolutely huge. We did several caches there last year and for the most part we had to drive between caches as there was a fair distance between them despite being in the same park. Audobon Park in the Garden District also has a fair number of caches which most likely survived the hurricane as that part of town is above sea level. The French Quarter has a decent number of virtual caches that most likely are still intact. It will all sort itself out in time and I am quite sure that of the very few people that will actually be caching in the area in the near future, they already know what risks and obstacles they may encounter.

 

Just give it time.

[+The Leprechauns]

It is heartwarming to see a handful of new geocaches being hidden in other, unaffected parts of Louisiana away from the Gulf Coast. No new ones in Mississippi. And a few 'found it' logs on inland caches hopefully mean that some people are finding geocaching to be part of being "normal."

 

It is *sad* to see new caches hidden in New Orleans right before the hurricane, that are still waiting for FTF logs.

[+AEGIS SPY]

I am one of those who weathered the storm here in South Ms. I came through better than most, but had damage to my house and my truck. During and after the storm, I was thinking about the many caches we have here on the coast, and how many of them would need attention after the storm. I will do what I can to check the status of the caches during my travels through the areas that were affected. Granted, I will not be able to do them all, but I will post on GC.com as to what I find at the caches I am familiar with.

-Bandit