Jump to content

Paperless Benchmarking?


mcl143

Recommended Posts

I am getting into finding benchmarks. However, I was wondering what everyone else did for paperless benchmarking.

 

I download .gpx files and convert them to Cachemate files for geocaching. However, for benchmarking it seems we can only get the .loc files. These do not seem to have the discriptions of where the benchmark is located.

 

Is there a way to get the descriptions in a downloaded .gpx file? Or does the .loc have this information and I am just missing it?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Link to comment

Matt,

 

Have you tried searching the archives of this forum? The topic comes up regularly, and contributors have outlined several different approaches.

 

I futzed around with paperless benchmarking for a bit, but decided it worked better for me with hard copy on a clipboard. YMMV.

 

-ArtMan-

Link to comment

mcl143,

 

I can't speak to the Paperless methods, though I don't have any qualms with it. I prefer the latest copy of an NGS Datasheet on a clipboard. It is all laid out to see, I can write recovery notes on the back. That serves as a paper brian until whenever. You can even use it for logging you measurements and other field notes about the Station.

 

If I am stopped and questioned by anyone, I have an official US Government Document in my hand for use in corroborating my reason for being where I am. That very piece of Paper will put a lot of people at ease, as you become a Surveyor type just doing a job in their eyes really quick. A digital copy of this on a PDA is not official enough in the heat of a moment. Parents especially will involve themselves in your business, by either inquiring on their own or asking the police to do so if you look suspicious and you are where kids play.

 

In this day and age, that piece of paper is and can be worth a lot.

 

Worth Considering.

 

Rob

Edited by evenfall
Link to comment

I've been paperless benchmarking for a while now.

 

Down load data sheets by county:

Data Sheets

 

Program to convert data sheets file into GPX (drag and drop):

Conversion Program

 

Then I use GPX Sonar to open the GPX files. I can carry the whole state of Texas on my PPC with no work and no problem.

 

There's another topic here with other methods that use other programs: Paperless BM

Link to comment
If I am stopped and questioned by anyone, I have an official US Government Document in my hand for use in corroborating my reason for being where I am.

This very thing happened to me not two hours ago. I was looking for a SY0036 and its reference marks and came up on new housing from the back side (woods). I was met by a the new home owner and questioned. Having that piece of paper made a better impression than if I had just showed him my coordinates on my GPS or PDA.

 

The funny thing is, we were almost standing on RM3 while we had this conversation. I looked around a bit and said "See? There's one now."

 

So, I'm in agreement with Rob. To me, this little experiance justifies having a printed sheet to show around as needed.

 

R_C

Link to comment
If I am stopped and questioned by anyone, I have an official US Government Document in my hand for use in corroborating my reason for being where I am.

This very thing happened to me not two hours ago. I was looking for a SY0036 and its reference marks and came up on new housing from the back side (woods). I was met by a the new home owner and questioned. Having that piece of paper made a better impression than if I had just showed him my coordinates on my GPS or PDA.

 

The funny thing is, we were almost standing on RM3 while we had this conversation. I looked around a bit and said "See? There's one now."

 

So, I'm in agreement with Rob. To me, this little experiance justifies having a printed sheet to show around as needed.

 

R_C

 

Not really. We were stopped looking at our laptop on the side of the road, when a Sheriff's Deputy pulled up to ask us if we needed help, then he saw the laptop, digital camera & GPSr & asked what we were doing. We asked him if he had heard about Geocaching.com. He smiled and said yes. We proceeded to show him a picture of a couple of benchmarks on the preview screen of the camera & explained it was another area of GC. & we had all of the info that we had downloaded on the laptop as to where all of the benchmarks are that we were hunting.

 

He thanked us, told us to have fun & be safe, then with a smile, drove off.

 

I think he was thinking...."just a couple of old farts".

 

So, we have our laptop with all of the info on it, for both benchmarks & caches, so we have done away with all of the paper mess for about a year & a half now & would never consider going back. I can even make notes in GSAK for either the marks or caches to have when we log our finds or notes. It is so nice to have all of this in one spot.

 

If anyone has any questions about how we do this, we will gladly answer any PM or E-Mail. Just ask...we have all kinds of answers. :rolleyes:

 

Shirley~

Link to comment

No, Not, Not really Shirley. It does not seem productive to attempt to discredit R_C's experience, and the fact he is agreeing with my observation should be of no consequence either.

 

R_C just had a Valid experience. It really happened and the Datasheet helped him. A number of recent threads here in the forum have been about restrictions to Photography as well, in fact there was one a month back. I have had the exact same experience as R_C, and more times than I can count. It goes with the Job if you work in the Survey industry. Contact with the Public is inevitable. Your Milage does vary, but that was just your experience once. Not everyone takes along all the gear you do Shirley, Furthermore, you met a nice Cop, and in the city, they ain't all nice. Not always. It is nice to hear you had a favorable experience too. Not everyone, everywhere will Buy into what you have on your Laptop. An electronic file is not as credible as a piece of paper to many folks.

 

In the past, I have worked in the Beverly Neighborhood in Everett, for a company who has a Big Gravel Pit in the area. Everett Cops are Pretty Particular in that area as this is very close to the Main Boeing Plant at Paine Field, Where the 747, 767, 777 and 787 are built. I have worked on Paine field in the past as well, But these days we all do so after a Background Check.

 

A little over a year ago, I was working the Ballard Neighborhood of Seattle, and working Geodetic Stations inside the Ballard Locks, On Army Corps of Engineers property, along the same time and after this was going down:

 

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&...cks&btnG=Search

 

And Yes I was asked what I was doing... But I checked in with the office on my way in, I wore my Work Vest, Hardhat and you can bet I had a clipboard full of datasheets to show everywhere I wanted to look... The Guy saw my GPS and Digital Cam too... I had very little problem when I told him I was Searching for USACE survey markers which were included in the NGS Database so I could update their status. He did look at my clipboard. I am sure i was watched the entire time.

 

I have on other occasions, had to call the USCG to obtain permission to enter their areas to recover stations, I have had to obtain parking passes to get where I wanted to go. I had to leave those Passes on my Dashboard to prevent my vehicle from being towed. I have had cops make note, by driving by slow on me many times.

 

Those of us in the field can go on for hours about all the times we are questioned or given the skeptical eye. Sometime the situation can become downright tense. Yes as a mater of fact I have had Cops come and tell me that private property owners were nervous about the surveyors. I have asked permission to go somewhere and have not only been refused but told I might not want to Dawdle while leaving either. So before you give that piece of paper the Brush Think it over. When Printed, it is a legitimate document. If you want to go without it, fine, but most folks travel lighter than you, and that piece of Paper is all the credibility they have.

 

So take it from me before you scoff at the paper. It has it's place. Whether you choose to use it or not, is your personal choice.

 

Geocachers have had their run-ins with the Bomb Squads more than once. It is worth keeping that in mind. It is after 9/11 these days... Civil rights are not what we remember... Many people in this country really are afraid of things. I guess it is time for everyone to brush up on their Auldous Huxley...

 

Rob

Edited by evenfall
Link to comment

Oh Robbie,

 

I am very sorry if that little 'not really' bothered you & I meant no disrespect to Red_Cedars (I am apologizing to you also). I understand in your profession that you have to go into all sorts of areas that we would never be allowed to go & we would never think about going. If we see a 'no trespassing sign' or a locked gate, we simply make a note on the benchmark page that the mark is inaccessible & why & special permission will need to be gotten (if possible) to log that mark. Your job requires you to have your 'official look' - meaning the hard hat, clip board, etc. & I understand that you are watched the whole time, I am glad that is you & not me, I would feel very uncomfortable, that is why we do not go find urban caches much. Give me the vast open spaces with the beautiful views anyday!

 

I just wanted mcl143, the original poster to understand that you 'can' go paperless, that it is fairly easy & it 'saves trees' & is so convenient. It saves having to go through tons of paper to find the one that is next in line. If you are very organized, this is probably not a problem...but I am one of the most disorganized people in the world, so this has been a blessing to me. We tried a PD to begin with, I had a lot of trouble with that tiny little screen. So, John was so sweet & bought me a laptop/notebook. I personally will never go back to all of the stacks & stacks of paper again.

 

We have had several people in 'authority', RR Security, State police & County Sheriffs from three different states, etc. either question us or as you had happen - drive by slowly & I noticed they were talking on their radios, so I assumed they were calling in our license plates. When questioned, we are polite & tell the person what we are doing.

 

We have been asked to leave the area only once (the rail road) but the RR Security man was very nice about telling us who to get in touch with to get the permit we needed to be on that particular RR property and that we could then find/recover all of the survey marks then. The permit would include the safety facts & concerns of the rail road & you would need to sign a waiver for liability reasons.

 

Maybe it just helps to have a 'Grandma' along. :cry: Anyone want to hire me to be your 'nice little ole' Granny that talks to the nice man in authority'? :laughing: I think most of the people that have checked us out have thought that we are a more than a little crazy to be out either Recovering Benchmarks or Geocaching and now the State Police & the Sheriffs just whiz on by us with a wave. And I can imagine with the thought..."Those crazy old farts are at it, again!"

 

If anyone needs any info on how our set-up gets us where we are going, we will be happy to pass along the information. It is so much fun!

 

Robbie, again, please take no offense. None was meant to you or your profession.

 

I just get carried away when I can tell people just how great it is to have all of the data at my fingertips & how sweet it is to have GSAK. The filters are so cool...you can sort to find all sorts of special marks to go for. We found the neatest mark that had been logged as destroyed by a fellow GCr, AND it had a "Blazed Triangle" as a reference mark! It is a really good one too.

 

The mark is 'Dry Park Lookout'.

 

Sorry for the long winded post, but I just wanted people to understand where I was coming from...I do not mean to be pushy or brash, I am a nice little ole' Granny....really....

 

Shirley~

Edited by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)
Link to comment
I just wanted mcl143, the original poster to understand that you 'can' go paperless, that it ... 'saves trees' ....

One way I save trees is to "liberate" paper from my office that has been printed on one side and then discarded. I just print out datasheets (and anything else that doesn't have to be clean and pretty) on the blank side.

 

Feel free to call me a cheap bas***d; I just feel it is partial environmental penance for burning up all that gas on benchmarking trips.

 

-ArtMan-

 

(edit to correct typo)

Edited by ArtMan
Link to comment
I just wanted mcl143, the original poster to understand that you 'can' go paperless, that it ... 'saves trees' ....

One way I save trees is to "liberate" paper from my office that has been printed on one side and then discarded. I just print out datasheets (and anything else that doesn't have to be clean and pretty) on the blank side.

 

Feel free to call me a cheap bas***d; I just feel is partial environmental penance for burning up all that gas on benchmarking trips.

 

-ArtMan-

 

Ooooh, Liberating paper is a good thing! :laughing:

 

And, no, I will not call you cheap or a B......d either!

 

Shirley~

 

PS: We probably burn up more gas where we are than 10 of the benchmark hunters in the east combined. :cry:

Link to comment

Oh Shirley,

 

It all comes down to the way you say it... See the Oh at the head end of your name there? Does it seem to imply that I am feeling something more than just speaking to you would? Since I am mirroring you, perhaps you see, we can mean a lot of things we barely say, yet it isn't necessarry. Some things are better to think and not say. I was not taking away from paperless benchmarking either. I agree wholeheartedly that it is a viable alternative, but this is the world we live in, and I felt the way you said what you said was Cutting R_C off at the knees.

 

If we really want things to go back to the usual sense of decorum around here, we need to practice treating people with a basic level of respect. If we disagree, that is fine, but we can do so in a way that still respects other peoples opinions and points of view.

 

I realize also that we seem to have a bit of negative history between us and I have a strong sense that his quote of my previous advice may have helped to motivate you to write what you did, as it is not your usual comeback.

 

I am only interested in helping people here. They take what they need and leave the rest. Sure I make my living this way but I am not charging for what I have learned, and some of it was learned the hard way. Experience is a teacher.

 

So, you and John have your methods and I mine, the rest of these nice folks can adapt what works for them. But let's try keeping the tearing down of one another to a minimum. You don't have to like me or respect me and that would be fine, but I will expect that your communications to me and about me be respectful towards me and others here in this public forum. As you have seen in the recent past, I am more than happy to point this out when I feel it necessary and I will continue to. You were reasonably well spoken in this last comment. However, what I am saying would include addressing me as Rob or evenfall, as the belittling and patronizing innuendoes towards people's names are not necessary either, no matter how cute and grandmother like they may seem to you.

 

Thanks, Rob

Link to comment

"I got 'dis same car."

"Really?"

"No."

 

I don't think I can add anything of value to this conversation, I prefer to use paper datasheets and paper toposheets. Of course, both my cars have manual transmissions, I think Rubber Soul on vinyl sounds better, and I prefer the Canon FTb to the Canon Powershot.

 

I know that several (many?) good benchmark hunters are paperless. I think CallawayMT is. I wonder what system Me & Bucky uses. I kill trees.

 

But using paper also helps me find benchmarks. I read the datasheet before I decide to hunt for the mark, I read it again when I print it out, I read it again when I plot the station's approximate location on my paper toposheet, and I read it again when I draw my schematic ("34.33 feet southeast of the road and 4.5 feet southwest of the pole") on the bottom of my paper datasheet. It's a lot of grinding preparation, I know, but, by the time I go into the field, I have a pretty good idea of where the mark is well before I get close enough to park my truck.

 

I (generally) don't go where I'm not supposed to. But when I'm somewhere that I think I can be and run into someone who thinks I shouldn't be there, I do show them a datasheet. Seems to work. On two occasions, I've been asked to produce ID. After I do, I politely but firmly request that they address me as "Colonel". That seems to work too.

 

w

Link to comment
I kill trees. 

 

But using paper also helps me find benchmarks.

 

. . .

I do much the same sort of thing if a particular mark looks like it'll be more difficult than usual.

 

But I have the advantage of working for the largest paper recycler in Washington State, The Seattle Times. We generate more waste paper here than any other single producer in the state. And it all goes back to Weyerhauser for recycling. After the hunt, my little pittance of a few sheets of recycled bond goes in with the daily tonnage.

 

Suffice it to say, there are good arguments for both sides. Me, I prefer the "papered" path. In the end, I think it all comes down to the type of hunting you do versus the type of personality you have.

 

Personally, I try to keep things as simple as possible on the technology end. For most of my hunting, I don't even use the GPS except to confirm coordinates AFTER I've found the mark. Unless a mark is burried, I seem to do better that way. I mean, most of the marks were placed before GPS was widely used, weren't they? The descriptions are supposed to be good enough to find the mark, so that's what I go by. Especially for "Scaled" co-ordinates.

 

$0.02,

R_C

 

(ebited four speeling)

Edited by Red_Cedars
Link to comment

Seven,

 

You did add Value, and often do. It does seem that The Old Farts, BlackDog and I seem to be having a tough go at it though... Hopefully soon they will drop the innuendoes and just help out. The deer in the headlights look is all well and fine, but at the end of the day, I know that what I am driving at is understood by them, and if not, we can repeat the lesson until it is. What I do isn't about me, and I have known this all along. I am not all that competitive with you guys, but I do enjoy helping out and leading people to easier fun and high quality game play. I like seeing it be fun for all and I have been happy about the point that this forum runs a bit smother than many others. I hope we can maintain the respect we have for one another so it continues as it has for the most part.

 

R_C, you make a good point. If the paper helps you think it through, the paper may be a good choice. I keep my field notes for the hunt on the back of my Datasheet. The datasheet is the most complete document I can get for help. Field notes, written in a notebook are a part of my stock in trade anyway, but I do not advocate that people should or should not do this, but rather if paperless hunting makes you happier then fine. It is my opinion that the NGS datasheet in hand helps give a hunter a bit of legitimacy if questioned in the field. Without it may be a tougher road to travel depending on who's asking. It is just my experience. In any case, it is an individual choice and to each their own.

 

Rob

Link to comment
I am getting into finding benchmarks.  However, I was wondering what everyone else did for paperless benchmarking.

 

I download .gpx files and convert them to Cachemate files for geocaching.  However, for benchmarking it seems we can only get the .loc files.  These do not seem to have the discriptions of where the benchmark is located.

 

Is there a way to get the descriptions in a downloaded .gpx file?  Or does the .loc have this information and I am just missing it?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Matt,

 

I think what you're looking for is probably GSAK by Clyde English. After you download the county list from the NGS and drag and drop it on the BMGPX icon you get a GPX file that GSAK can use. It will have most of the information on the datasheet in an easy to read format that can be downloaded to a PDA (I'm not sure of the steps for this, though.) if that is your style. Us 'oldfarts' like the BIG screen of the laptop better.

 

The other nice factor about GSAK is the ability to sort the county marks in so many ways and to output to a mapping program with several types of filters (as in along a route or so many miles from a point.).

 

If you have any questions about GSAK, Clyde monitors the GSAK thread in the GPSr & Software forum. You can also ask us either here or by PM/e-mail if you choose.

 

By using the laptop & GSAK we can connect our GPSr to the computer, run Mapsend and get a live route log for the back roads showing where we are and have been and where we need to go. The laptop has all the info about the mark we are looking for so unless we have to hike very far (a PDA would be nice for this.) to get the mark, the datasheet isn't needed. The mapping program also shows other benchmarks that are nearby if we have the extra time to go for them. We just pull them up on GSAK and read the datasheet on the laptop and go.

 

As for needing the datasheet to show the "authorities", it isn't necessary. Just give a straight answer when they ask "what are you doing?", such as "I'm looking for a "Survey Marker". If you say "Benchmark" then you will need to explain what you mean by benchmark as they may think in terms of 'milestones' for a project of some type.

 

If a civilian asks what you are doing just tell them you are trying to locate a "Geodetic Interactive Spacial Referencing Device" so you can document and record it. :wub: Just be sure and tell them they are safe and none have exploded in the last 6 weeks or so! :(

 

They are quite a few who use a system similar to ours if you have any other questions they will be able to "chime-in" and help.

 

Hope this helps to answer your questions?

 

John

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...