Jump to content

Archive Or Replace My Cache? Advice Sought.


Recommended Posts

In October 2004 we placed our first hide, Bridge over the River Something. We put a lot of thought into it, trying to make it something other than tupperware under parrallel sticks. I guess we suceeded, the logs talked about the fun surprise at the end and I think many were amused by the differing ways of retrieving the cache, some surprised me!

 

Let me tell you some about the cache and the area and why it is a surprise. Lexington MA has some areas full of 2 story high tech buildings, IBM, Varian and small startups you've never heard of. It is probably 50 feet from the Minutman Bike Path, one of the countries oldest Rails to Trails program bike path. This path is heavily travelled. We found a spur off this path that meanders between high tech office parks. You are surround by trees and some wetlands. Most people I've spoken with didn't know the area existed. Hence the idea of a cache placement. Finding new areas is one of the things I just love about caching.

 

Along the path, which is only about 1/2 mile long, there is a small railroad bridge. It is perhaps 10 feet high from the stream which is maybe 10 feet across at the widest spot and less than a foot deep. The bridge is strong, trains used to cross it! My wife used to work near there and spent all the nice days on the bridge on her lunch hour, enjoying the peace and quiet in such an unexpected place.

 

She quit her job there and a year or two later we went to place the cache. The place had changed. It was a very rainy summer and debris had been caught at the base of the bridge and a natural dam had been created. There was now a 2 to 4 acre pond behind this dam. No problem, it was just as beautiful.

 

We did note some path erosion on one side of the bridge when we placed the cache. The cache is tucked up into the bridge structure and required some wading and/or climbing to retrieve.

 

Time passes and the erosion get worse, much worse, and in Dec 2004, just months after it was placed, the bridge has "Do Not Cross" yellow tape on it. Very sad, but I pull the cache and wait for the bridge to be repaired.

 

I check on it once in awhile, have others check on it. No repairs.

 

So, do I replace the cache now? The "Do Not Cross" tape is long gone. It is pretty clear that the path will never be repaired. The cache, if placed again, will be a bit harder to retrieve but not impossible. I'll likely bump the terrain from a 2.5 to 3, that alone is a clue, a 3 in the middle of an office park?

 

The other is issue is the pond. Summer has been very dry and the pond is still there but the water flow is just a trickle. It is covered with a green scum and, quite frankly, it smells bad. Surely it will clear up as the summer ends or the rains come again.

 

So what to do? Archive a cache that others have enjoyed, or restore it but in a slightly changed state?

 

My wife and I are of mixed minds. I'd like to restore it because the hide was so enjoyable, she'd like to archive it because the path is no longer as pleasant as it used to be, the pond is scummy now and you can really no longer walk from one end to the other, the bridge is essentially impassible. (However, once you've retrieved the cache, clearly you are agile enough to make it to the other side.)

 

Thanks!

 

Paul

Link to comment

Depending on the severity of the erosion and how badly the bridge needs repair can it be an Eagle Scout project or several Eagle Scout projects to return the area to a nice place?

 

I would not archive the cache, up the difficulty to the appropriate level and put the conditions/warnings on the cache page.

Link to comment

This project is just too big for a non-professional group to fix. You would need a front end loader and dozens of cubic yards of gravel to fill both sides of the bridge, not to mention widening the path for the front end loader. Then again, dozens of people with wheel barrows would also work. Strong people with great endurance...

 

As for clearing the dam, man, I'm really leary of that. You would need a big honking pump to drain the pond, power for that pump and probably EPA permission since you would be draining wetlands, never mind that the pond wasn't there a year ago.

 

Organizing this is, sadly, beyond my desire.

 

Paul

Link to comment

I would suggest replacing it in a way that still makes it accessable in the vicinity of the bridge, but doesn't require using the bridge or getting underneath of it. I'm not certain what may be available to use in the nearby area for a different hide, but after having done your two MIT caches, I'm certain that whatever you choose will still result in an exceptionally well done cache.

Link to comment

Wetlands are defined by the soil type. Not just the presence of water. They take time to form. You can't just back water up and make it a wetland. If it was wetlands before the pond it will be wetlands after the pond is gone. Wetlands are also under the Jurisdiction of the Army Corps of Engineers and not the EPA. I've had good luck working the them.

 

As for maintance there are two kinds. Fixing the problem, and keeping it from getting worse. The latter is simpler. There are people and places you can go to for help and with some of them the former is possible. Force account work is cheap. For government agencies it's a sunk cost.

 

If you don't want to tackle the project then I'd put your cache back anyway just to draw attention to the problem. If you do want to tackle the problem email me for advice anytime you need it.

Link to comment
I would suggest replacing it in a way that still makes it accessable in the vicinity of the bridge, but doesn't require using the bridge or getting underneath of it. I'm not certain what may be available to use in the nearby area for a different hide, but after having done your two MIT caches, I'm certain that whatever you choose will still result in an exceptionally well done cache.

The bridge is integral to this cache. You're supposed to be walking down this really tame path expecting to veer off into the brush looking for a pile of sticks or a stump and all of sudden you're there, and it isn't all that easy anymore. Then you double check the difficulty, and you realize that I did warn you.

 

Funny thing now that it is even harder still, I'm not so comfortable with tricking the finder like this.

Link to comment

I worked for the Corps of Engineers HQ up until Feb this year. I can give you the address in DC if you want to contact them, I can also give you the persons name to put on the envelope. But they will tell you to talk to your local Engineer District Office first. Sometimes the best way to go if you feel it's important enough is to write your congressman and tell them whats going on. Then the Congressman assigns a Congressional Tasking to the Corps of Engineers and then the Corps must at least give a look see at the area.

 

This is just a bit of info and if you're interested just email me.

 

Dawn

Link to comment
Wetlands are defined by the soil type. Not just the presence of water. They take time to form. You can't just back water up and make it a wetland. If it was wetlands before the pond it will be wetlands after the pond is gone. Wetlands are also under the Jurisdiction of the Army Corps of Engineers and not the EPA. I've had good luck working the them.

I didn't know that. Thanks!

 

Paul

Link to comment

you noted earlier that you think this might be too big of a project for the Boy Scouts, but as a former Boy Scout that helped a fellow scout out with his Eagle Project I'd say it might be possible. His project was to rebuild some cement and stone step on a hiking trail. Doesn't sound that bad, until you realize these steps are a good two miles away from the closest parking lot (and place to mix the cement), and those two miles are all uphill. A steep enough hill that steps are needed for parts.

 

So, the project entailed hauling freshly mixed cement in wheelbarrows up this mountain trail for two miles, and quickly enough to still have usable cement at the project site. Man, its a good thing we had 20 or so scouts taking turns running cement. Of course, when it wasn' tour turn behind the wheelbarrow, we were hunting large stones to use.

 

Anyways, my point is don't underestimate the power of youthful exuberance and the drive for that Eagle Scout rank :huh:

Link to comment
  Wetlands are also under the Jurisdiction of the Army Corps of Engineers and not the EPA.  I've had good luck working the them.

I didn't know that. Thanks!

 

Paul

Actually, that is not entirely true. In Pennsylvania, wetlands are regulated by the State Department of Environmental Resources. The Feds have nothing to do with it other than to make sure the state program is in complience with the federal regulations. Permits for the type of project you are describing are also issued by the same agency in PA. I know all this because one aspect of my job as a state fisheries biologist is to review these permits for possible wetland and riparian disturbances. However, I don't know how the process works in your state.

 

I may have confused you more, but if you are interested in "fixing" the location, I would contact local agencies first and they will advise you if you need to take it up to a higher level.

 

Salvelinus

Link to comment

That's easy enough to fix. Just make it a three-stage puzzle offset.

 

Stage 1: is a safe but boring location, with maybe a sign with numbers on it. (ANYTHING with numbers on it.) Numbers plus some other numbers equals bridge coords.

 

Stage 2: Go to bridge. Find some other number equation, maybe number of former railroad ties or something. Numbers plus some other numbers equals final stage.

 

Stage 3. Happy little cache box in a safe-for-cache location, boring or otherwise. :huh:

 

No problem! :o

Link to comment
...Actually, that is not entirely true.  In Pennsylvania, wetlands are regulated by the State Department of Environmental Resources.  The Feds have nothing to do with it other than to make sure the state program is in complience with the federal regulations.  Permits for the type of project you are describing are also issued by the same agency in PA.  I know all this because one aspect of my job as a state fisheries biologist is to review these permits for possible wetland and riparian disturbances.  However, I don't know how the process works in your state.

 

I may have confused you more, but if you are interested in "fixing" the location, I would contact local agencies first and they will advise you if you need to take it up to a higher level.

 

Salvelinus

If your state has an agreement with the Corps of Engineers then your state is working under their authority, and the role of the Corps of Engineers becomes one of making sure the state is doing what they have agreed to do. Ultimate responsibility remains with the Corps. The details can vary by state. We deal directly with the Corps in Idaho. However I work through biologists who in turn work directly with the Corps so I'm one step removed from the process, but I also deal with a lot of other aspects of the environment.

Edited by Renegade Knight
Link to comment

I hope this doesn't serve as a spoiler, but...

 

Instead of having folks climb down under the bridge, suspend the cache from a rope at the very beginning of the bridge. They haul it up, log it and let it back down (hopefully to a place where it isn't too visible to adventurous kids who explore underneath bridges.

 

Make the clue something like "no noose is good noose."

Link to comment
Instead of having folks climb down under the bridge, suspend the cache from a rope at the very beginning of the bridge.

The bridge as actually difficult to get onto now because of erosion. But anyways, That's actually backwards from what I intend them to do. I want them to have to wade (only about 5 feet in about 1 foot of water) and then climb up about 2 feet or so.)

 

That's the surprise, you expect to find a rotten stump and well, you don't!

Link to comment

reviving a 2 year old thread....

 

The holes were mysteriously fixed recently! I guess waiting 2 years paid off. Glad I kept the cache in place, I just read over most of the logs, 2 years of fun.

 

This is what caching is about.

 

Paul

I read the first post and my initial reaction was "Oh no! Don't archive it -- I loved doing that one!" and only then did I notice that it was two years old ;)

 

It's one of those caches where finding it is only about a quarter of the battle; once you know where it is, the real challenge starts -- followed by a ridiculously-pleased-with-yourself feeling when you get it. Especially if you're my height (5'1"). A few months after I got it, I accompanied skeeterwart when she found it, and since she is a lot taller than I am, she had an easier time -- she was actually able to reach up and hold the base of the bridge for support while walking across the dammed-up sticks. I couldn't reach anything to hold on to, and had had to practically crawl across to avoid falling! ;)

 

Putting it back was even hard than retrieving it -- after swinging it up over my head back into its spot, the momentum nearly sent me sailing into the water.

 

Thanks for the fun memory.

Edited by the hermit crabs
Link to comment
and since she is a lot taller than I am, she had an easier time -- she was actually able to reach up and hold the base of the bridge for support while walking across the dammed-up sticks. I couldn't reach anything to hold on to, and had had to practically crawl across to avoid falling! ;)

 

and you know what? When they fixed the big holes they also removed the dam. You now have to wade, like I intended it, or be really acrobatic!

 

Thanks for telling me about it, that's why we hiders place them.

 

Paul

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...