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Ftf -- Am I Wrong To Have Claimed It?


Bear Paughs
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I'm offended by a note someone posted, and I'm wondering if I'm just being touchy or if it was in fact meant to diminish my accomplishment as FTF. Either way I know I'll have to just let it roll off my shoulders, but the sting of the comment is still fresh so it will probably be at least a day or two before that happens. I'd like community input on this, as well as on how to handle similar situations if they occur in the future.

 

I'll stipulate that being FTF doesn't mean much other than bragging rights in some friendly competition, but being new to this it's still a rush for me to be able to claim FTF -- especially when there were others who also went after it at the crack of dawn, so it was apparently desirable for them, too.

 

Here's what happened:

 

I was the first on the scene to a new cache listing this morning, joined soon after by a second and then a third cacher. We made our introductions, had some pleasant conversation, and compared notes. After some time had passed I eventually found the cache, after almost an hour of hunting. The others were in other areas still searching. I grabbed the container, moved away from the hiding spot, and announced to the others that I had found it -- giving them the option to just come and sign it, or to wait while I rehid it so they could continue the search for themselves. Both joined me and signed the log and the three of us compared notes on the coordinates given vs. where our units said it actually was. We said our goodbyes and left.

 

The second cacher beat me online and wrote a very nice log, thanking and congratulating me for being the first to find. I post my log, mentioning also that I was FTF. The third cacher also mentioned me as FTF in her log. So far so good, right? Well, someone else (who wasn't there) wrote a note after my log, saying "Congrats on the SHARED 3 way FTF."

 

Am I wrong in thinking this is some kind of pointed jab at me and trying to take down my accomplishment? I don't understand it why they would do that, but I think the bolded text makes their intention clear.

 

So, I guess I'm looking for input from the community -- Should I be able to make the sole claim of FTF, or do you think it is "SHARED"? If I had signed the log and rehid the cache before or without telling the others present that I had found it (which I could have easily done) would that make any difference? How do you guys generally sort out FTF rights?

 

Also, any ideas on how I should deal with the writer of the note? Obviously there's nothing I can do about it, and as I mentioned in the opening paragraph I know I'll just have to let it go. But this is a very prolific area hider (in fact, his cache hides are ALWAYS my favorites). I don't what warranted his note, but now I'm going to feel like I'm "not wanted" if I try to find his caches. Any advice?

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First, Congratulations on the FTF!!

 

I'm not sure what to make of that note, but maybe they find and log caches a bit differently in your locale when people are in a group.

 

When I first started caching with someone else, we would let the second person find the cache on their own after stating we had found it. After a while, the first person to find the cache would just point out where it was after finding it.

 

The other day I cached with two additional people. I wasn't hardly out of the third vehicle before the first cache had been found and the log was being signed by one of the people for all four of us . . .

 

It was interesting to see this "style" of caching . . .

 

So, maybe they consider all members of a group to be equal, although your companions seemed to understand who was really FTF.

 

. . . just thinking outloud here . . .

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I have to agree, it does seem a little pointed, especially with the smiley attached to the sentence, but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Either you are misinterpreting the comment, or it is a dirty little dig by one of the many self- appointed "log police".

 

Either way, it isn't your problem. You found it first, hence, you are "FTF"- you were perfectly legit in claiming it, especially since the others backed you on it.

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Let me preface all comments by saying I am a cacher without angst. I have had signed a fresh logsheet only to get home and see that someone who found it after me but logged it online before me claimed FTF. Oh well...water off a ducks back. I don't hold that against them. I honestly can't remember the name of the cacher that did it. No grudges here.

 

If you know you were the FTF and the other two cachers know you were the FTF, what else matters? What the note poster thinks really doesn't matter.

 

Perhaps you could write him an email and ask what he meant. It could lead to a greater understanding of each other and possibly even a caching friendship. Or, it could lead to a big fight. Depends on the amount of angst present. :lol:

 

I would still go look for the note posters caches.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Margo

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Gotta agree. I would assume that he/she was congratulating all three of you - not making it a point of saying that any one of you was less deserving then the others.

 

I've seen a lot on this topic lately and frankly don't get it. In my 450 or so finds I have around 25 FTFs (never kept track - best guess). Sometimes it's fun to rush out and try to beat the others, but it's not that important.

 

I've had this same situation occur where I was the first finder amongst a few on scene and when I logged it I didn't even mention the FTF claim (although he did in his log after me - after waiting for me to log).

 

Now I'm rambling....point is that you've stated it's no big deal - now just believe that! :lol: Don't let others ruin your fun (as I'm sure it wasn't intended to do so anyway).

 

Now that I think about it, the cache owner updated the page after our find giving us both credit (see cache) - doesn't bother me at all.

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Am I wrong in thinking this is some kind of pointed jab at me and trying to take down my accomplishment?

Maybe. It's best to take the most positive possible interpretation of written remarks, since you have no context, tone of voice or body language to help you interpret them. Taking the most positive interpretation avoids a lot of angst and potential conflict.

 

Should I be able to make the sole claim of FTF, or do you think it is "SHARED"? 

You found it first - that's the definition of First to Find. But in the scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. And a shared FTF is still a FTF.

 

If I had signed the log and rehid the cache before or without telling the others present that I had found it (which I could have easily done) would that make any difference? 

No. You handled the find exactly right by giving the other cachers the option.

 

How do you guys generally sort out FTF rights?

A shared FTF is still a FTF, so we don't worry about it.

 

Also, any ideas on how I should deal with the writer of the note?  Obviously there's nothing I can do about it, and as I mentioned in the opening paragraph I know I'll just have to let it go.  But this is a very prolific area hider (in fact, his cache hides are ALWAYS my favorites).  I don't what warranted his note, but now I'm going to feel like I'm "not wanted" if I try to find his caches.  Any advice?

You've answered your own question. Let it go, let it go, let it go. The note doesn't imply that you're "not wanted" as a finder. It doesn't even imply that you weren't FTF. It's most likely an effort to be generous with the congratulations.

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You absolutely should not have claimed FTF. That special honor is reserved for a cacher who is traveling alone!!!

 

Since you were in a group, none of you should have claimed that FTF honors and instead left the area until someone else had logged it online. Then, and ONLY then, could you have returned to sign the log and posted your find online.

 

Frankly, your blatant disregard for the rules of this game only cheapen the REAL accomplishments that we in the FTF honor society have made!!! I'm very discouraged to see people supporting your cheating in these forums....shame on you ALL!!!!!

 

 

</sarcasm off>

 

Seriously, I could care less how you logged the FTF..solely or with the group. Since you truly found it first AND the others with you congratulated YOU on the FTF, I don't see how anyone could say it was a "shared" FTF. Ultimately, none of it matters anyway! Enjoy your FTF and keep on caching!!!

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I my neck of the woods, the FTF is the person who signed the log first, even when ther are several people seeking looking for the cache together. How hard is that to figute out.

<sarcasm on>

Pretty hard: When two people spot the cache at the same time, do you knock each other down getting to the cache? Do you fight over the log, tearing it to pieces? Do you stab the bigger, stronger cachers with a pencil before he or she can sign, or does might always make right?

<sarcasm off>

 

If you recognize that this a game and politely take turns signing the log, then the person who signs first is arbitrary. If you all found it together, who cares who signs the log first? Share the honors - it's only a game!

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To the OP:

 

For the next two months, be a Geocaching manic on FTF's. Check for new listings ten times a day. Rush out to be FTF on everything you can.

 

Well, everything EXCEPT caches posted by your "SHARED" friend. Don't seek that person's caches at all.

 

Or you can take the non-petty approach and just do what I do: Smile and nod your head.

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No matter how you slice it there is always a first person to sight it, or grab it. The rest is how you play the game. The person who commented on your shared FTF was out in left field since how you logged and played was between you and the other two.

 

The groups I cache with tend to use the thee muskateers style. All for one and one for all. We would log it as a shared FTF. However if there was a cool FTF prize the first one who actually found it would be the one to have first dibs.

 

Other groups cache in a way to where everone has to find it in turn. The first to find will walk away and say "found it" then everone else keeps looking until they all do.

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Any stats I keep are for my own curiosity. I don't cache for FTF's. This week alone I could have claimed about a dozen FTF's in my area without any problems at all. Instead, I wait until I have a reason to pass by, then I grab them. If they happen to be FTF that's fine. Even then I don't say anything about FTF in my logs any more. I did attempt and find four of those new caches this week and 3 happen to be FTF's with the 4th one being FTF by another cacher about an hour before I arrived.

 

But some cachers just gotta get that FTF. On the way to my work place a few months ago I stopped at a new cache and just happened to be the FTF. I made a trade and left a TB then signed the log. About 10 hours later when I got home I went online to record my find. There were already some other cachers who had made the find that day. And one was claiming FTF. That's fine with me but I was curious as to why. I could have emailed and asked but I just wasn't THAT curious. Let the guy have his glory is my motto. :lol:

 

This is a game which I enjoy playing. There is no reason nor desire for me to police or control how others play the game. Nor is there any reason to allow any actions or lack of actions of other players to take away the joy I get from caching.

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Just in case anyone needs clarification. First to Log online is not First to Find. Logging above the real FTF in the physical log doesn't change the First to Find. It looks like some people have competition (and sometimes one sided) and the competition gets a tad confused.

I haven't seen too many FTL's around here. And I'd have to agree that the "one sided" competition can be entertaining at times. I do recall seeing somebody's home page with a FTF, STF, FTL, etc. stats listed. That's one neat thing about caching - we can pretty much choise what we want to keep records of. I use to keep a log of the items I traded and when they were picked up just to see how long the swag would stay in one spot. But after a couple of hundred caches it was just too much work for results which really meant nothing. I finally saw the light and gave that part up.

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To the OP:

 

For the next two months, be a Geocaching manic on FTF's. Check for new listings ten times a day. Rush out to be FTF on everything you can.

 

Well, everything EXCEPT caches posted by your "SHARED" friend. Don't seek that person's caches at all.

 

Or you can take the non-petty approach and just do what I do: Smile and nod your head.

I should add that when two people are looking at the same time, the one that spots the cache get FTF and Also signs the first

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Thanks to everyone for your input. I do feel better. There's still a little of the bad taste in my mouth from this whole experience, but I'm hoping that will go away.

 

My biggest concern was the feeling that the person who made the comment has some kind of problem with me. Obviously that's not something I want, as I really enjoy looking for his caches. We have emailed back and forth a few times about verification of coordinates for puzzle caches and hints, and he even sent me a note to let me know the location of a yellow jeep because he saw that I was looking to find one. I definitely felt grateful as a newbie for the help he provided. That's why I really can't imagine why he made the comment he did.

 

But I do still feel like it was meant to be some sort of jab. Of the many, many logs I've read for the caches in my area, not one has any kind of comment like that from him or any other poster, which is why I feel this comment is specifically directed toward me. But I'm going to try to ignore it and convince myself that it wasn't meant in the way I read it. I'm going to still look for his caches. The way I figure it, I either did read too much into it, or I didn't -- in which case, seeing all the logs from me should just annoy him to no end, which alone should be just deserts. Thanks again to everyone who responded.

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I have been the second finder of a cache, and when I logged online, I saw that the FTF has not placed an online log yet.

 

As a courtesy, I always wait (within reason) until the FTF logs their find online. I have never had to wait more than 24 hours...I'm not sure how long I would wait if the FTF took moore than a day or 2.

 

Ed

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I don't see anything wrong with logging online before the FTF. Mention that someone else beat you to the cache if you want to make it clear you aren't claiming to have been the first. If anything, I'd say it's polite to go ahead and log, so that other people checking for new caches don't get their hopes up about potentially being FTF themselves. (I know somebody who once said that when they were FTF they'd deliberately not log for a day or two, because they thought more people would visit the cache that way, and they thought the cache owner would appreciate the extra traffic. I'd be kind of peeved if a FTF on one of our caches did that.)

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I don't see anything wrong with logging online before the FTF. Mention that someone else beat you to the cache if you want to make it clear you aren't claiming to have been the first.

Yup, I agree. I didn't care at all that others had logged online before I could get to it. And the second finder was gracious in their log to give me credit. No problems there.

 

Truthfully, I wasn't concerned so much about having the rights to claim FTF as I was worried that I made a newbie faux pas and claimed it innappropriately and alienated the local cachers. But given the feedback I've received on this thread and the messages sent to me outside the forums, I see that I didn't do that. There MAY be ONE cacher who has some other issue with me, but it shouldn't be over my claim of FTF.

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my credentials as a prominent FFwhore are firmly in order. i have gotten up at 0400 to travel across two states to get one.

 

once (and only once) i started to count the number off FFs i had. i stopped before i got to the end of the list because i didn't want to know.

 

that said, as far as i'm concerned it's just not that important. if another cacher joins with me in a hunt, WE found it. it matters not to me which one of us. we went in as a team.

 

if you want to claim it for yourself, do. you know what happened, whether or not everyone else who reads the logs does.

 

once a guy claimed online he was at a cache before i was. i did not bother to correct him; both of us know, and i don't care enough to make a fuss.

 

life's too short to worry about getting credit. graciousness goes a long way.

 

that new guy who teamed up with me and my usual partner to get a FF not so long ago will remember that we insisted it ws a team effort long after everyone forgets the cache itself. we will have set an example of the kindness we believe in; the ripples spread.

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My biggest concern was the feeling that the person who made the comment has some kind of problem with me.  Obviously that's not something I want, as I really enjoy looking for his caches.  We have emailed back and forth a few times about verification of coordinates for puzzle caches and hints, and he even sent me a note to let me know the location of a yellow jeep because he saw that I was looking to find one.  I definitely felt grateful as a newbie for the help he provided.  That's why I really can't imagine why he made the comment he did.

 

It does seem like a jab. But maybe the person was having a bad day. You did nothing wrong. I would likely ignore it, but an alternative, especially since you have corresponded with the person before, is that you could send a polite friendly email that goes something like this:

 

"Hi! I saw your note on X cache mentioning a shared FTF. I hope you didn't think something was odd there? I ran into some cachers on the search, found it before they did, and then stepped back and let them find it themselves after I did. I wasn't sure if your note was expressing some sort of disappointment with me, and I sure would like to clear up any concerns! Thanks! :anibad:"

 

Note the angst avoidment exclamation points and smilie! :lol:

 

But you know, in the end you could just ignore it. Some people get really serious about FTFs. Sometimes people also just get snippy and have bad days. I wouldn't sweat it. Like I said, you did nothing wrong.

Edited by carleenp
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Everybody has their own set of rules. My profile has my FTF list. I used to include in my FTF list the caches I found while out with a group (some were planned group outings, many just turned into group outings as time went on!)

 

*My rules* state that I include in my FTF list the caches where *I* actually found the cache first. I have a separate list I maintain for group outings where I was with the FTFer.

 

It gets a little harrier when dealing with multis, when I found wp1, but somebody else finds the final. I include that in my "other" list.

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I think Flask summed it up perfectly.

 

that said, as far as i'm concerned it's just not that important. if another cacher joins with me in a hunt, WE found it. it matters not to me which one of us. we went in as a team.

 

I (note that I'm saying "I", here) wouldn't claim something for myself that two other people had just as much a part in. Chilehead is a good case for that. I've always thought that his group finds list was a great idea. I've been first with Proline (who you were first with) and many other cachers on numerous occasions, but never felt the need to exclude them from being first with me, and vice versa. They helped look for it just as much as I did. Don't worry, it's not directed to you, just all the people in general who don't think a FTF is something that can be shared with the people who're there with you.

 

I also don't even care about first to finds, so don't think I'm sour about it (plus I was 130 miles away :anibad:). I would have appreciated an email about your concern, though. I bet you wouldn't have had that bad taste in your mouth for so long if you'd have just contacted me directly. :lol:

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