Oui, Your Cache Is Dangerous

August 15, 2005

I continually get comments about placement of my caches. "Your cache is near a lake and I saw a gator in there once, You should remove it so small children don't get eaten". "Yourt cache is dangerous. I can't climb a tree". "I saw poison Ivy near your cache. You should warn people". Are these people nuts or do they just not have a mind of their own?

I tell them, "You should never do a cache that you feel may put you or a loved one in danger". Then they really get mad.

Is it me or the "new" cache mentality?

Thanks for letting me vent.

GatorBruce :rolleyes:

9.2k · August 15, 2005

How do you get French people to visit your caches? :rolleyes:

3.9k · August 15, 2005

One of the benefits of geocaching is it gets people away from the TV and the "safety" of thier home. :rolleyes:

August 15, 2005

it seems to me like it is a new mentality. I'm all about adventure and taking risks. I don't mind going after an "extreme" cache but to each his own. and I guess tey don't like the envelope being pushed.

August 15, 2005

Hmmm, while I would never have a problem with climbing trees, rocks, mountains, etc...I do believe being near/around gators kind of draws the line between fun caching and endangerment.

I'm 34 years old, and I'll tell ya what...you wont catch me dead anywhere near where gators live.

I do the sport/hobby for fun, physical fitness, love of the great outdoors etc, but putting myself anywhere near where things can eat me seems just plain silly.

Geocaching (in my opinion) isn't supposed to have the same risks as say...Indiana Jones.

Thats like hiding a cache in shark infested waters. Some may call that "fun geocaching", but I think its unnecessary risk. The sport can be challenging without being life threatening.

Just my .02

OTRA

Edited August 15, 2005 by OldTimeRadioAddict

August 15, 2005

you sould move the cache closer to the water :rolleyes:

?French people?

August 15, 2005

Hate to double reply, but I want to add that there are too many people who think of geocaching as strikely a "family" sport, but it isn't necessarily.

People who geocache with families have to understand that not all caches are designed with children in mind.

They have to understand this, and shop around for geocaches that are more suitable for them, and not just assume all caches have their children in mind.

I have two kids who love to cache, but I am always specific when picking out caches for them to do with me. I always pick more challenging ones when its just me and the wife.

OTRA

5.9k · August 15, 2005

Whiners

August 15, 2005

Whiners

that one would be perfect for those who are tree climbers!

August 15, 2005

Now, I think that cache looks like a blast. I'd climb that tree in a heartbeat.

OTRA

August 15, 2005

As long as you mention those things on the cache page, I don't see what the problem is.

I hate bugs climbing on me and squeal like a little girl every time I see one but my husband laughs at me, brushes it off and on we go. I don't complain about there being bugs in the woods near the cache though.

In my opinion caching gets me places I never would have gone otherwise, so it's all good. Once I get there I can decide to either climb that tree or not, but if I choose not to climb that tree it doesn't mean there shouldn't be a cache in the tree. It's all in the journey. :rolleyes:

August 15, 2005

As long as you mention those things on the cache page, I don't see what the problem is.

Agreed completely.

As a "caching family" there's nothing worse than loading the kids up, driving to the cache site, and finding that the cache-hider forgot to mention on the cache page that you need to scale an active volcano to reach the rope bridge to cross the alligator pit to walk barefoot across the field of broken glass to reach the first clue of a 12 stage multi where this was the "easy find". And, oh yeah, the terrain rating is a 1.5. :rolleyes:

Descriptive cache write-ups or accurate use of the difficult/terrain ratings helps. We just save those caches for when the kids are visiting their grandparents!

6.5k · August 15, 2005

It's like deja vu all over again. :rolleyes:

If you get to a cache and you do not feel comfortable going after it, walk away. Do not complain(unless it is rated a 1/1) , do not whine, do not suggest that it should not exist. Others may go out caching just because of those hides.

I cannot stand caches hidden in playgrounds. :lol:

24.7k · August 15, 2005

You should put a warning label on your caches.

"Warning, this cache is part of the process of natural selection. If you should die trying to attempt this cache, you are too stupid to live and your genetic code will be eliminated from the human race."

In the fine print you can add.

"If your children survive you can rest assured that the stupid genes did not get passed on. If you are not up for the challenge and recognize this, that too is natural selection and your survival instincts will be passed on. Be careful, there are some who think staying home and eating twinkies is not the highest form of human evolution that in a pinch the skills you learned while geocaching may save your life in a time of crisis. Natural selection is tricky like that."

Edited August 15, 2005 by Renegade Knight

22k · August 15, 2005

Your cache is near a lake and I saw a gator in there once, You should remove it so small children don't get eaten".

uhm, shouldn't you assume any lake, pond, kid's wading pool, etc in Florida has a gator in it, whether you saw one there or not?

I'm not suggesting being paranoid, just cautious. I don't go into the woods of Canada wondering if bears live there.

August 15, 2005

Reminds me of a sign I saw in an hiking goods store:

You could get mauled by a bear and die

You could get bit by a snake and die

You could fall off a cliff and die

You could get gored by a bison and die

You could get struck by lightning and die

You could get shot by a hunter and die

You could get attacked by fire ants and die

Or you could stay at home on the couch, eat potato chips and die

3.8k · August 15, 2005

Near a lake, in a tree, surrounded by poison ivy?

That’s not dangerous; try one of these caches placed by Insp Gadget. The comments are excerpted from an interview in Today’s Cacher, Feb. 2005

Gonna make you sweat 4

Sept1c-- How do you answer those that think this is just too dangerous?

Gadget-- Several people have told me that they don't feel vertigo is safe enough and my answer to them is by all means don't try. If someone is not comfortable enough in taking a risk and reaching this cache they should not do it. I would feel terrible if anyone ever got hurt trying to find one of my caches. And while I understand many people go caching with their children a lot of us do not. I prefer a cache that is very risky, difficult to reach or very physically demanding. I get a real rush out of something like that.

Gonna make you sweat 4 is probably the most difficult and dangerous cache that I've ever hidden. Only one person has found it and I do not expect many more to find it. This cache is on the face of the Sugarloaf Mountain in Campbellton. It is located about three quarters of the way up the mountain on a ledge approximately 1 foot wide. In order to get here you have to climb to a spot approximately 600 feet above the ground. You then have to walk about 10 feet on this 1-foot wide ledge with nothing between you and certain doom.

The cache is very symbolic in that it is located at the base of a small Red Cross that is painted on the face of the mountain, which symbolizes the death many years ago of a young girl who fell from the top of the mountain.

Vertigo!

Gadget--Vertigo is a cache I hid in the city of Bathurst in northern New Brunswick. It's basically a micro with a magnet attached that is hidden under a bridge. This bridge is approximately 200 feet above the water and the only way to reach the cache is to walk on an extremely narrow catwalk about halfway across and jump down onto a concrete pier and walk about 10 feet over to reach this cache. Only a few people have found it and others have told me they don't want to take the chance in trying for it.

:lol: :rolleyes:

August 15, 2005

If I weren't so far away I'd attempt Vertigo.

August 15, 2005

How do you get French people to visit your caches?

Do NOT put underarm deodorant in it... :lol:

22k · August 15, 2005

If I weren't so far away I'd attempt Vertigo.

Not me. I get dizzy just reading about it!

20.7k · August 15, 2005

Near a lake, in a tree, surrounded by poison ivy?

That’s not dangerous; try one of these caches placed by Insp Gadget. ...

Those caches are perfect examples. Both have inherent danger. They should be ignored unless a cacher is going to take proper safety precautions. If the proper precautions are taken, neither cache is very dangerous.

August 15, 2005

I continually get comments about placement of my caches. "Your cache is near a lake and I saw a gator in there once, You should remove it so small children don't get eaten"

You should place the cache right at the edge of the shore with instructions that the Geocacher should cover his/her hand with bacon grease and briskly move it through the water to locate the cache. :rolleyes:

1.1k · August 15, 2005

To your whining cache loggers:

If it doesn't hurt, then why do it? :lol:

I have to agree with wimseyguy's post... unless it's a 1/1, all bets are off. If you're too much of a pussy :rolleyes: (cat, of course) to go after something that has some element of risk to it then back away. Leave the good stuff for the rest of us who thrive on a little challenge.

I like it, by God. And those are the cache I'd MUCH prefer to go after. (Altho, I must admit, water with a potential gator in it doesn't sound too tough compared to a fall off a cliff, or slipping off 15' high rocks and getting smashed by the incoming tide as you tumble about in the cavern below as the water rushes in and out... or potentially losing fingers and toes b/c you didn't realize the snow level was as 'low' as it was... or walking out to the end of a fallen tree that's 20' off the ground to retrieve a container in the pouring down rain and the like. Wah! O.k... it might have only been 15' off the ground, but it WAS pouring.)

Do your research and figure out which cache are truly kid-accessible, or leave them at home. It is not your business to presume everyone with (or without) kids is too stupid to know what the capabilities of their children are. (Besides, they're really great to dangle over the water away from the cache to get the gators attention away from the box, you know? Still tender at such a young age and they squirm a lot.)

My favorite disclaimer, found (in part) on most Stingray and Devil Kitty caches, and, in fact, one of my very own:

The following persons should not attempt the final 200 feet of this cache from the top of the falls:

Young children * Elderly People * Out of Shape People

Whiners, Crybabies, and Wusses.

Weenies need not apply.

Edited August 15, 2005 by CurmudgeonlyGal

August 15, 2005

Well, this phenomenon is a shame, but not unexpected. As geocaching grows in popularity, more people want to do it because it is a fad, not necessarily because they really WANT to do it. They don't want to be taken out of their comfort zone. With any sort of activity like this, there will be that element that come in and advocate the "wussification" of said activity, because they don't want to get their hands dirty. Ignore them and stay extreme, if that's your thing.

Wussification. I may have coined a phrase...or maybe not... :rolleyes:

1k · August 15, 2005

I'm 34 years old, and I'll tell ya what...you wont catch me dead anywhere near where gators live.

I grew up near creeks and ponds with gators and snakes and other such critters.

I suppose it all depends on one's perspective.

I hate getting on the interstate each day for fear of some maniac behind the wheel but I still have to get to work.

:rolleyes:

P.S. Did you know a gator's jaw muscles have incredible snapping and clamping strength, however, they have very little muscle and strength when it comes to opening their mouth? You can hold a gator's mouth shut with one hand. (And, in case you're one of those people who want to shut down a cache due to its proximity to potential wildlife, please read the fine print: DO NOT TRY THAT AT HOME!)

38.2k · August 15, 2005

The following persons should not attempt the final 200 feet of this cache from the top of the falls:

Young children * Elderly People * Out of Shape People

Whiners, Crybabies, and Wusses.

I know some "elderly people" who can out hike and out climb 90 percent of us. One 88 year old I've done trailwork with makes me want to follow him around and find out what he eats and drinks, because I want it (unless its eggplant).

Still, I agree with CG and others that if you do your research, you can tell pretty much what is in store for you. Being however that there are many who are too lazy to do the research, I think its a good idea to mention any dangers that are out of the ordinary on your cache page. Other than that, anything goes as long as you rate it correctly.

Edited August 15, 2005 by briansnat

1.1k · August 15, 2005

Eh. I took my kids on the particular cache I was warning other people about as well. They're good up to a Pacific Northwest terrain rated 4 cache. I don't try to push them any further... most of the time.

However, my disclaimer was for this particular cache alone, and doesn't apply to any others. Heck, as far as I know, I'm the only person who's taken a fall off of the log at the top of these falls... the 'elderly' people who have done it, went around. Just who's the dummy here?

I, too, know a few old folks who can run rings around just about anyone. They are an inspiration, and give me hope that I can be a cranky, cantankerous, irascible ambulatory old fart too.

August 15, 2005

I like to read what people have encountered in the logs, whether it be bear, poison ivy or a gator. It allows me the opportunity to skip it, or do it in another season.

Likewise, I will comment especially if it is wheelchair accessible or family friendly, because specifics help those geocachers with special needs or those who lug up to 6 kids at a time.

It all falls back to if they don't want to do it, they don't have to. :rolleyes:

5.9k · August 15, 2005

This is fun game:

If you see a gator in a pond, walk to the nearest bank and splash a stick in the water.

The gator will immediately begin swimming in your direction.

Run like hell

22k · August 15, 2005

This is fun game:
If you see a gator in a pond, walk to the nearest bank and splash a stick in the water.

The gator will immediately begin swimming in your direction.

Run like hell

You forgot a step: Hope there isn't a second hidden gator.

4.1k · August 15, 2005

I, too, know a few old folks who can run rings around just about anyone. They are an inspiration, and give me hope that I can be a cranky, cantankerous, irascible ambulatory old fart too.

:lol:

Thank you..... :rolleyes:

August 15, 2005

Ive seen caches that were located In the City- but in very dangerous parts of town.

Almost anywhere along the banks of the Mississippi, anywhere between downtown Mpls and Fort Snelling - you will find homeless people living in those woods. Not to mention, those of whom who find the outdoor variety of fornicating with each other to be the best idea. Has anyone ever been harmed doing one of these Many caches?

Not to my knowledge- However, I do know several cachers who have some Very Scary stories about run-ins with bums, rabid dogs the bums keep around thier camps, etc-

I just dont do them. Others Love them, but never seemed to run into any of these things. Timing, maybe. Luck, most likely.

Although, I do feel it puts some cachers at risk. I grew up in St. Paul, and have freinds who live nearby to most of these places- I know better than to go there - Let alone at night, alone, etc. Some cachers could come thru from "up north" or from another state- and could be wandering right into a heap of trouble.

I guess I've learned by now to be selective - first of the area, then of the actual hide spot. If I have any doubts, I just dont go. For me, If I am going to get mugged and left for dead- It wont be while geocaching. . . . :rolleyes:

1.1k · August 15, 2005

For me, If I am going to get mugged and left for dead- It wont be while geocaching. . . .

Because... ?

Is there a better time to be mugged or left for dead? At least you were having a good time.

August 15, 2005

OK, flip side of the coin, if you do place a more challenging cache (I have a half-dozen of them) you should expect some folks will post silly complaints like that and be prepared with a thicker skin.

To pervert the expression, just 'cause they are ignorant enough to ignore the 4+ star terrain rating isn't cause for concern on your part.

Enjoy,

Randy

1k · August 15, 2005

This is why the cache attributes were created. You should set the cache attributes appropriately to indicate the conditions that may be encountered. You should also briefly let folks know--through the text of the cache description--what, if any, special hazards or conditions may exist. If I need climbing gear to get to a cache, I want to know in advance (so I can skip it).

It's not just cachers with kids who need this information--it's cachers from other parts of the country. Here in RI, ticks, deer flies, and poison ivy are typical. I don't need to be warned about them. If I find a cache that doesn't have them, I am pleasantly surprised. Folks who are just visiting, however, may not know about the danger of lyme disease, and may not be used to PI.

On the other hand, there is no danger whatever of poisonous snakes in RI, so I don't worry about them. If I am doing a cache in another state where timber rattlers are common, I'd appreciate being warned.

August 15, 2005

Whiners

Do people deliberately ignore the terrain rating, or do they just not know what the four stars mean?

I think Geocachers range from people (kids or no kids in tow) who find a 30 minute walk in the park challenging, over people for whom a 5 mile ascend is still enjoyable, provided the scenic overlook is worth it, to people who consider free climbing "safe". Some of these logs are just inappropriate for a four star terrain. They only document how much these folks overestimated their own capabilities.

Jan

1.5k · August 15, 2005

I continually get comments about placement of my caches. "Your cache is near a lake and I saw a gator in there once, You should remove it so small children don't get eaten". "Yourt cache is dangerous. I can't climb a tree". "I saw poison Ivy near your cache. You should warn people". Are these people nuts or do they just not have a mind of their own?
I tell them, "You should never do a cache that you feel may put you or a loved one in danger". Then they really get mad.

Is it me or the "new" cache mentality?

Thanks for letting me vent.

GatorBruce

Actually just this past Saturday I attempted a cache that was in a 7' tall drain pipe. Myself and 3 others were about 3 blocks back in when the water really started rising quickly. Not sure whether it was caused by the rain or something else, but apparently this hadn't happened to anyone else previously. We turned around and started to run out, but by then the water was too high and we ended up getting washed off our feet and literally body surfed most of the 3 blocks out of the pipe into a creek. Was quite an adventure that ruined about $800 worth of PDAs, cameras, and cell phones, and it was quite unnerving while we were floating through this tunnel. Dangerous? Well, yeah. We all ended up battered and bruised a bit, but nothing major. Would I try this one again? Definitely - just not when it was raining. :rolleyes:

The terrain was labeled as a 4, although most times it's probably closer to a 2. I think we just happened to catch it at a rare 5 star level. :lol: So yes, some of us appreciate the "challenging" ones. If they want safe there are plenty of Walmart parking lot hides they can score.

Pray for Daylight

3.8k · August 15, 2005

...If I am doing a cache in another state where timber rattlers are common, I'd appreciate being warned.

What? Where's you're sense of adventure, your sense of humor? :rolleyes:

Or you could stay at home on the couch, eat potato chips and die

:lol:

20.7k · August 15, 2005

Actually just this past Saturday I attempted a cache that was in a 7' tall drain pipe. Myself and 3 others were about 3 blocks back in when the water really started rising quickly. Not sure whether it was caused by the rain or something else, but apparently this hadn't happened to anyone else previously. ...

:rolleyes:

August 15, 2005

For me, If I am going to get mugged and left for dead- It wont be while geocaching. . . .

Because... ?

Is there a better time to be mugged or left for dead? At least you were having a good time.

Because I wont go into those kinds of areas while Not geocaching.

No, there isnt any good time to be mugged, so staying away from potential muggers helps stay safe. You make your own destiny you know . . . . :rolleyes:

While I agree, at least I'd be having fun - Id rather sit on the couch, eat potatoe chips and die than to get mugged while having fun.

3.8k · August 15, 2005

Actually just this past Saturday I attempted a cache that was in a 7' tall drain pipe. Myself and 3 others were about 3 blocks back in when the water really started rising quickly. Not sure whether it was caused by the rain or something else, but apparently this hadn't happened to anyone else previously. We turned around and started to run out, but by then the water was too high and we ended up getting washed off our feet and literally body surfed most of the 3 blocks out of the pipe into a creek. Was quite an adventure that ruined about $800 worth of PDAs, cameras, and cell phones, and it was quite unnerving while we were floating through this tunnel. Dangerous? Well, yeah. We all ended up battered and bruised a bit, but nothing major. Would I try this one again? Definitely - just not when it was raining.
The terrain was labeled as a 4, although most times it's probably closer to a 2. I think we just happened to catch it at a rare 5 star level. So yes, some of us appreciate the "challenging" ones. If they want safe there are plenty of Walmart parking lot hides they can score.

Pray for Daylight

What a rush! Glad you're OK.

1.1k · August 15, 2005

Do people deliberately ignore the terrain rating, or do they just not know what the four stars mean?

Part of the problem arises when that 4* terrain rating is translated. A 4* terrain is probably going to mean something a LOT different to me, than it is to you (being any other cacher).

Our translations are highly dependent on our experiences and highly where we live. A 4* here in NC is a LOT different than a 4* in western WA. It happens. Hopefully we figure it out, learn to better read the cache descriptions, know just what kind of hides our locals are hiding and how they rate/adjust the terrain as time goes on and are prepared when we get there.

Some of my faves have been under-rated terrain caches... nothing like a few surprises there to make your day!

1.5k · August 15, 2005

Actually just this past Saturday I attempted a cache that was in a 7' tall drain pipe. Myself and 3 others were about 3 blocks back in when the water really started rising quickly. Not sure whether it was caused by the rain or something else, but apparently this hadn't happened to anyone else previously. ...

Well it had been raining lightly for a while, and when we got there there wasn't much water coming out of the pipe... no cause for concern, or so we thought. We were probably in the pipe only about 25 or 30 minutes, all told. So things can change pretty quickly. We just got caught in the middle this time. :lol:

August 15, 2005

Do people deliberately ignore the terrain rating, or do they just not know what the four stars mean?

You mean there is terrain ratings ????? :lol:

Just remember, when dealing with bears and gators;

you don't have to outrun them,

just outrun the person you are with ! :rolleyes:

1.1k · August 15, 2005

Just remember, when dealing with bears and gators;

you don't have to outrun them,

just outrun the person you are with !

Never, ever... geocache alone.

:lol:

August 15, 2005

Do people deliberately ignore the terrain rating, or do they just not know what the four stars mean?

You mean there is terrain ratings ?????

Just remember, when dealing with bears and gators;

you don't have to outrun them,

just outrun the person you are with !

I know that a full grown Bear can run some 30 to 35 MPH (up and downhill), has a fair stamina and that it is impossible to outclimb them. Gators probably don't climb well, but how fast do they run and how long do they last when running?

Jan

August 15, 2005

I continually get comments about placement of my caches. "Your cache is near a lake and I saw a gator in there once, You should remove it so small children don't get eaten". "Yourt cache is dangerous. I can't climb a tree". "I saw poison Ivy near your cache. You should warn people". Are these people nuts or do they just not have a mind of their own?
I tell them, "You should never do a cache that you feel may put you or a loved one in danger". Then they really get mad.

Is it me or the "new" cache mentality?

Thanks for letting me vent.

GatorBruce

Actually just this past Saturday I attempted a cache that was in a 7' tall drain pipe. Myself and 3 others were about 3 blocks back in when the water really started rising quickly. Not sure whether it was caused by the rain or something else, but apparently this hadn't happened to anyone else previously. We turned around and started to run out, but by then the water was too high and we ended up getting washed off our feet and literally body surfed most of the 3 blocks out of the pipe into a creek. Was quite an adventure that ruined about $800 worth of PDAs, cameras, and cell phones, and it was quite unnerving while we were floating through this tunnel. Dangerous? Well, yeah. We all ended up battered and bruised a bit, but nothing major. Would I try this one again? Definitely - just not when it was raining.

The terrain was labeled as a 4, although most times it's probably closer to a 2. I think we just happened to catch it at a rare 5 star level. So yes, some of us appreciate the "challenging" ones. If they want safe there are plenty of Walmart parking lot hides they can score.

Pray for Daylight

seeings how I have a huge fear of the water and enclosed places I never would have attempted it... I would have gone into shock if I had been in your shoes being washed down the pipe

1.5k · August 15, 2005

seeings how I have a huge fear of the water and enclosed places I never would have attempted it... I would have gone into shock if I had been in your shoes being washed down the pipe

Nothing wrong with that. At the same time, as the OP was getting at, this particular cache shouldn't be archived because of our experience. I wouldn't want it to be. Everyone needs to know their own limitations and proceed accordingly. I think it's a really good idea to mention in the write-up if there are specific dangers about an area (gators, snakes, a huge cliff, etc) but caches shouldn't be removed from an area just because of the dangers nearby. Sometimes the dangerous ones are the most interesting and rewarding. To each their own.

3.8k · August 15, 2005

I know that a full grown Bear can run some 30 to 35 MPH (up and downhill), has a fair stamina and that it is impossible to outclimb them. Gators probably don't climb well, but how fast do they run and how long do they last when running?

Jan

From EcoFlorida:

Q: How fast can an alligator run on land?
A: I've been told in the past by a ranger that an alligator can run as fast as 35 miles per hour, but not for a long time. But please -- don't try to find this out for yourself! As with all wildlife, they aren't likely to bother you if you don't bother them. So, stay safe and watch from a distance.

I saw a documentary recently saying that they can move the distance of their body length (12 ft for a big one?) in about ¾ second. :rolleyes:

6.5k · August 15, 2005

Great log and adventure docditto! I'm glad you are mostly OK from it, and I really enjoyed the read. I think you guys are definitely ready to road trip to the most tubular of all The Infamous Tube Torcher :rolleyes:

But please, check the weather report before going.

PS would that be an African or a European alligator? :lol:

Edited August 15, 2005 by wimseyguy

Oui, Your Cache Is Dangerous

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