528 Rule And Refining Locations

[tossedsalad]

What happens when the coordinates of an approved cache are refined and the 528 rule is violated? If the location can not be changed without a lot of grief (specially made container) does the cache get canned? I am talking about a few feet here, not anything significant.

 

I have seen some caches where they are very close to another. When I used my GPS to check the location relative to other existing caches, I found one that was less than 0.1 miles by a few feet. If the coords are updated to show this will the approver get upset? How much does a few feet matter? I'm talking less than 20 feet. Of course my reading may be off by 20 feet, but still the question remains.

[+Olar]

I believe I read in the forums here a while back that any coord correction that exceeded a certain distance would flag an alert to your approver. I don't recall what distance was mentioned but it didn't strike me as being unreasonable. If you require less than 20 feet then you are probably well within the limit.

 

Cheers, Olar

[+Hemlock]

20 feet is within the margin of error of consumer GPS units.

 

So I don't care.

[+TeamAO]

Make your coordinates fit the rule. I check a 40' ring around the 0' reading, and so do other most likely, so having coordinates off by 20' wouldn't hurt.

[+Miragee]

Uh . . . that's REALLY bad advice. The coordinates of the cache should be THE coordinates of the cache, not some made up coordinates that are 20' off!

 

There is already a margin of error depending on the brand of GPSr and other variables, we shouldn't be deliberately contributing to it.

[+sept1c_tank]

...How much does a few feet matter? I'm talking less than 20 feet. Of course my reading may be off by 20 feet, but still the question remains.

The question remains, who cares?

[+briansnat]

20 feet is within the margin of error of consumer GPS units.

 

So I don't care.

Agreed. You adjust it by 20 feet and you're likely to come back a few days later when the sats are aligned differently and find the coords to be back where they were in the first place or 20 feet in another direction.

Edited August 14, 2005 by briansnat

[tossedsalad]

...How much does a few feet matter?  I'm talking less than 20 feet.  Of course my reading may be off by 20 feet, but still the question remains.

The question remains, who cares?

If the cache is a well hidden micro, it would seem unfair to expect someone to search an area larger than the combined errors of the two GPSrs. If I am placing a cache, I want to get the coordinates as close as possible. Adding a 20 foot error seems pretty unfair and would tick me off.

 

In fact, I got FTF on a cache in the woods once, but only after searching for over an hour in the wrong place. Not only was it the wrong place, it was up a *very* steep hill, in dense woods, with lots of stickers. Then I walked by it by accident on the way out and realized that pile of rocks could be it. Turns out the coords were some 50-60 feet off which put it just off the hill and dozens of times easier to access.

 

So I guess you could say, *I care*.

Edited August 14, 2005 by tossedsalad

[+WascoZooKeeper]

Don't forget, the 528 rule, like just about everything else, is a guideline. While it seems to be adhered to fairly strictly, I think the reviewers are more interested in enforcing the intent of the rule than the literal "letter of the law". So if it was originally 540' feet away from the nearest cache, and updating the coordinates made it appear to be only 520' away, (1) I'm not sure a reviewer would even squawk about it in the first place, and (2) I suspect a polite note explaining the circumstances (cache really hasn't move, just refining coordinates, special container, yadda-yadda-yadda) would assuage their concerns.

 

Don't forget, the purpose of the rule is to avoid cache saturation. You're not effectively increasing the density of caches in the area, and it's pretty unlikely that your refinement of the coordinates is going to also "unlock the door" for a bunch of other caches to squeeze into the same general vicinity.

[+caderoux]

In my experience, the 528' guideline is usually handled realistically by approvers. So I wouldn't expect them to really worry if it was _only_ 450' or so.

[+Kai Team]

As was noted above, the cache listing software allows you to change the cache coordinates a short distance for just this reason (refining coordinates).

 

Try updating the coordinates on your cache page. If you exceed the allowed distance (which is more than 20 feet, if I remember correctly), it will tell you that you'll need to submit for reapproval.

 

If you do need reapproval, explain it in a nice note to the reviewer. If not, don't worry about it, since all you're doing is refining the coordinates (not actually moving the cache)!

 

Edit: correct wording of the first sentence.

Edited August 14, 2005 by Kai Team

[+Kai Team]

Make your coordinates fit the rule. I check a 40' ring around the 0' reading, and so do other most likely, so having coordinates off by 20' wouldn't hurt.

Really, REALLY bad advice.

[+treasure_hunter]

Make your coordinates fit the rule.  I check a 40' ring around the 0' reading, and so do other most likely, so having coordinates off by 20' wouldn't hurt.

Really, REALLY bad advice.

What he said.

 

If its not out in the open then move it, if its a micro, coords need to be dead on or you will get complaints and bad logs.

[+TeamAO]

Really bad advice? Today I found a cache off by 150 feet, and the accuracy was on 20 feet at one point. I still checked the circle because when I got within 20 feet of the coords I bumped a satellite. If your accuracy is 15 feet, and you make your coords fit the 528' rule even though the cache is 520', the margin of error plays in, and the next person to find it, might find the coordinates were right on with their GPSr unit's reception. I would move it the extra 20' feet out, but this person wants to know if they just have to get it to fit, but doesn't want to move the cache.

 

I'm closing myself from this topic, since I don't think I'll ever cross a path that this problem will occur. Just finishing off my first 2 cents that got shook up.

[+TeamAO]

Make your coordinates fit the rule.  I check a 40' ring around the 0' reading, and so do other most likely, so having coordinates off by 20' wouldn't hurt.

Really, REALLY bad advice.

What he said.

 

If its not out in the open then move it, if its a micro, coords need to be dead on or you will get complaints and bad logs.

If it's a micro, I agree, if it's a 50 caliber ammo can, which I assumed the OP meant because I'm a one-track minded person from SW Pennsylvania where micros are scarce in my area. An ammo can can be off, because hiding spots can be spotted from 60 feet away sometimes. Micros NEED to be dead on, as I've found out from the few I've found.

[+Kai Team]

Really bad advice? Today I found a cache off by 150 feet, and the accuracy was on 20 feet at one point.  I still checked the circle because when I got within 20 feet of the coords I bumped a satellite.  If your accuracy is 15 feet, and you make your coords fit the 528' rule even though the cache is 520', the margin of error plays in, and the next person to find it, might find the coordinates were right on with their GPSr unit's reception.  I would move it the extra 20' feet out, but this person wants to know if they just have to get it to fit, but doesn't want to move the cache.

 

I'm closing myself from this topic, since I don't think I'll ever cross a path that this problem will occur.  Just finishing off my first 2 cents that got shook up.

Because someone else had inaccruate coordinates (quite possibly unintentionally), that means we should advise others to intentionally dummy up their coordinates? The logic reminds me of when my son was about 6 years old - "But Jimmy's mom let him do it!!!".

 

The fact that someone else had inaccurate coordinates doesn't mean that you should, or that you should advise others to, regardless of the cache type. It's still really, REALLY bad advice.

[tossedsalad]

Yes, I understand that this is a guidline. But I remember a recent thread about a cache where the starting coordinates, not the actual coordinates of a cache was too close by only a few feet to another cache. The reviewer did not seem to be pursuaded by the poster's lamentations. I just don't know how techey the reviewers are about this. I just know I have seen some "horror stories" (so to speak) of reviewers sticking to "the rules" even if they are just guidlines.