Adopt A Cache

[+2-poco]

I need a Geocacher in the Quesnel Area, BC to adopt my cache that will not be approved by Geocaching.com in Bowron Lake Provincial Park Canoe circuit.

 

Please contact me if you are able to do this.

 

Bowron Chief Scout Cache

Edited August 12, 2005 by 2-poco

[+TrimblesTrek]

I need a Geocacher in the Quesnel Area, BC to adopt my cache that will not be approved by Geocaching.com in Bowron Lake Provincial Park Canoe circuit.

 

Please contact me if you are able to do this.

 

Bowron Chief Scout Cache

I'm afraid the link to your site won't work...'cause the cache isn't approved!

 

Just wondering... why would anyone adopt your cache if it's unapprovable???

[+dogbreathcanada]

Why won't it be approved? Too far from your home area to maintain?

 

If the cache did go missing (or if it started leaking, or any number of things), how did you expect to maintain it, btw?

 

Try to convince your approver (mtn-man?) to approve it, since the cache is in place. Promise him you'll work like heck to find an adoptee in the meanwhile.

 

If the cache is in the middle of the canoe/kayak circuit (2 days in, 2 days out), maintaining it will be a PitA for anyone, even if they are from the area.

[+dogbreathcanada]

An idea to find prospective adopters (since only a minority of cachers even check these forums) ... do a Nearest search from your proposed cache. Contact all cache owners who have placed wilderness caches in a 50 - 100KM radius. One of them may be interested.

[+Tidalflame]

Why won't it be approved? Too far from your home area to maintain?

 

If the cache did go missing (or if it started leaking, or any number of things), how did you expect to maintain it, btw?

 

Try to convince your approver (mtn-man?) to approve it, since the cache is in place. Promise him you'll work like heck to find an adoptee in the meanwhile.

 

If the cache is in the middle of the canoe/kayak circuit (2 days in, 2 days out), maintaining it will be a PitA for anyone, even if they are from the area.

I've seen caches that (supposedly) require a week's worth of hiking (round trip.) Seems kind of a shame to prevent such cases just because they're hard to maintain...

[+dogbreathcanada]

I've seen caches that (supposedly) require a week's worth of hiking (round trip.) Seems kind of a shame to prevent such cases just because they're hard to maintain...

Not saying that should be a reason for not approving a cache ... I think more caches like that should be available ... just saying it might be hard to find someone who's willing to commit to that sort of maintenance. Bowron Lakes isn't a day hike. Depending on where he hid the cache, it could very well be a 4 day investment of time and energy.

 

As for not approving the cache, I believe 2-poco is from the Vancouver area. And Bowron Lakes is well over 500KM away, in the interior of British Columbia. Not to mention that it is a canoe circuit that's about a 4 day round trip. So the non-approval was likely the fact that he lives nowhere near the cache.

[+2-poco]

Our cache is not being approved as I personally do not live close to the cache. I live in Greater Vancouver, 500 km from Bowron Provincial Park.

 

I set up a terrific cache up on the Bowron Lake Canoe circuit with our Scout troop. Even though our Scout Troop goes to Bowron Lakes annually, Geocaching.com cache approver is being really inflexible in not approving our cache now as I do not live in the area and can not run up and quickly run up and visit the cache if there is any problem with it. I understand their policy in terms of urban caches but they are being really inflexible with this 5***** terrain cache (5 stars because you need a canoe to reach the trail the cache is on).

 

I have got a note from the cache approver that he will approve cache if I can get some one who lives locally take it over. (The cache is in a good container with log book and includes a Canadian geocoin). It would be the second cache on the Bowron Canoe circuit. The first cache has been there 4 years and although never visited by owner was approved when geocaching was being less rigid with the rules.

[+dogbreathcanada]

Our cache is not being approved as I personally do not live close to the cache. I live in Greater Vancouver, 500 km from Bowron Provincial Park.

 

I set up a terrific cache up on the Bowron Lake Canoe circuit with our Scout troop. Even though our Scout Troop goes to Bowron Lakes annually, Geocaching.com cache approver is being really inflexible in not approving our cache now as I do not live in the area and can not run up and quickly run up and visit the cache if there is any problem with it. I understand their policy in terms of urban caches but they are being really inflexible with this 5***** terrain cache (5 stars because you need a canoe to reach the trail the cache is on).

 

I have got a note from the cache approver that he will approve cache if I can get some one who lives locally take it over. (The cache is in a good container with log book and includes a Canadian geocoin). It would be the second cache on the Bowron Canoe circuit. The first cache has been there 4 years and although never visited by owner was approved when geocaching was being less rigid with the rules.

Well, if you visit annually, then it shouldn't be a problem (imo). Anyhow, it's not like anyone can just run over and fix the cache, should there be a problem (it's at least two days in, and a major undertaking, even if you live 20KM from Bowron.) The fact that you visit annually is more often than 90% of the visitors who do the Bowron Lake circuit (local or not.)

 

And that other cache on Bowron, the owner doesn't even cache anymore, they haven't used their account since 2003.

 

There's a cacher here in Vancouver who recently placed a cache in Nova Scotia, even though they live in BC, and it was approved. I doubt they get to NS more than once a year (though perhaps they have a family member or friend who will help with maintenance).

[+dogbreathcanada]

Our cache is not being approved as I personally do not live close to the cache. I live in Greater Vancouver, 500 km from Bowron Provincial Park.

 

I set up a terrific cache up on the Bowron Lake Canoe circuit with our Scout troop. Even though our Scout Troop goes to Bowron Lakes annually, Geocaching.com cache approver is being really inflexible in not approving our cache now as I do not live in the area and can not run up and quickly run up and visit the cache if there is any problem with it. I understand their policy in terms of urban caches but they are being really inflexible with this 5***** terrain cache (5 stars because you need a canoe to reach the trail the cache is on).

 

I have got a note from the cache approver that he will approve cache if I can get some one who lives locally take it over. (The cache is in a good container with log book and includes a Canadian geocoin). It would be the second cache on the Bowron Canoe circuit. The first cache has been there 4 years and although never visited by owner was approved when geocaching was being less rigid with the rules.

Ask someone like Tidalflame to take it over (he has a cache within 100KM), but promise him you'll do the maintenance if, and when, necessary.

[+The Blue Quasar]

To present the other side of that issue:

 

First off, if someone can only do maintenance once a year and they live 500 km away then there is no way that the cache should be approved.

 

Maintenance requests should be addressed within two weeks. And it is in a Provincial Park... they will want immediate results. Provincial Parks across Canada are just starting to come to terms with the activity of Geocaching.

 

Second of all, pointing out that a cache that was placed fours years ago does not affect current rules. In fact, the guidelines quite clearly state that older cachers that were approved are not grounds for new ones to be, and many have been 'grandfathered' for that very reason.

 

Four years ago, Geocaching was brand new and the people setting up Geocaching were dying for new caches. They would accept anything. Times have changed and rules have adapted to reflect these changes. Using the arguement that a cache should be approved because another like it was four years ago would lead to people saying that all Virtuals and Locationless cache submissions should be approved without question.

 

Another thing to consider is why haven't the locals set up more caches in this area already? Perhaps there aren't enough people interested. Or this isn't the sort of challenge they are looking for.

 

Let locals place caches locally. I can tell you that when people around our caching area see a cache placed by someone that lives 100km away we get annoyed. Poaching, or stealing spots is not nice.

 

The comments that are made here in this thread make it quite clear that the Reviewer did the right thing... this is a vacation cache, there is no method for maintenance, and coupled with the fact that it is in a Provincial Park all suggest that this cache should not be listed, but should be removed.

 

What if some one else finds the cache, and destroys it.... who is gonna clean it up? What about the next finder that spend hours or days by canoe, maybe even portaging for this incredible find? Then they post "Needs Maintenance" and it doesn't get fixed for 8 months. How is that going to look to the Provincial Park staff? Exactly like litter and abandoned material, which is exactly what it is.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+Olar]

Well folks, this can be debated till we are all blue in the face but the fact remains that the cache is in place, identified as a geocache, and there it will sit until the OP returns one year from now to retrieve it. Based on the circumstances the best course of action may be to go ahead and approve it for the time being.

This is obviously a true wilderness cache and maintenance visits are going to be few and far between regardless of where the owner lives. Here is the opening paragraph of the other cache on this canoe circuit.

 

This Cache is somewhere on the Bowron Lakes Park Canoe circuit. It is a 10h drive from almost anywhere, and a 5 day paddle over a +100Km curcuit once you get there.

 

This ain't no Sunday afternoon stroll out on the Bruce Trail. This is the BC interior we are talking about here. You may have a problem finding any locals living in the area let alone a nearby cacher that could possibly adopt the cache. At least if it's approved and listed there is a chance of a find or two over the next 12 months. The listing could have a statement in it requesting that anyone planning to hunt this cache please be prepared to perform a little maintenance if necessary or something like that. Most geocachers would be more than willing to pack in a few extra items for this purpose. Even an empty container in case the original has been damaged and needs replacing.

 

Cheers, Olar

[+dogbreathcanada]

The listing could have a statement in it requesting that anyone planning to hunt this cache please be prepared to perform a little maintenance if necessary or something like that. Most geocachers would be more than willing to pack in a few extra items for this purpose. Even an empty container in case the original has been damaged and needs replacing.

 

Cheers, Olar

Excellent idea. The finder-maintained cache. Any cacher planning to do the Bowron trip and find the cache along the way, probably wouldn't mind bringing along a spare logbook, pencil, and container in the event the cache is missing or damaged. I'd spell out this requirement (request) in large bold coloured letters on the cache page.

 

(Hopefully the instructions for finding the cache are well laid out, so that a cache not found is not mistaken for one gone missing. As well, good instructions for finding the cache help reduce environmental impact as well.)

 

Perhaps 2-poco, you can point your approver (mtn-man?) to this thread as well.

 

Hopefully you get the cache approved ... or that your case can be made to the approver via this thread.

 

To Blue Quasar: as Olar pointed out, any cacher willing to do a 4 to 7 day canoe journey is more than likely willing to pack in a few small items to help maintain the cache if necessary and if requested on the cache page.

[+mtn-man]

Proper procedures are being followed, thank you.

 

Thanks Blue Quasar. Your post is right on the mark.

 

The suggestion to search for caches nearby to find someone locally who has placed a cache is the second best suggestion, next to taking it to the forums as 2-poco has done. The focus of this topic is whether you want to adopt this cache, not the semantics of the guidelines.

 

The nearest cache is this one. It is good ways away from the cache location. EDIT: Notice that the cache was only visited once this year (and only by the OP no less), once last year and twice the year before that. If you are going to adopt this cache you must be ready to maintain a cache that is pretty far out and is a terrain 5 cache (you must own a boat).

 

This map shows the approximate area of the cache but are not the exact coordinates.

Edited August 14, 2005 by mtn-man

[+dogbreathcanada]

Well, the proper procedures are just guidelines. And as guidelines they are in place not as hard-and-fast rules. I think you're a good approver mtn-man, but in this case a lack of knowledge of the area is limiting you.

 

Living within 50KM of Bowron doesn't allow for more frequent maintenance visits, it doesn't even allow for a more qualified cache owner. Due to the nature of the Bowron Lakes canoe circuit, an owner who states that they visit the circuit yearly is certainly a frequent enough maintenance visit, given the nature of the area and its remoteness. Abiding by a strict set of rules is doing no one any favours, and in this situation those "strict rules" should be guidelines (as they are stated to be in the site documentation.) Each cache should be measured on its individual merits and the merits of the cache owner, they shouldn't be weighed and measured against a set of inflexible rules, rules that were mostly set-up with urban caching in mind.

 

The other Bowron cache you mention is a poor example. It doesn't even have a valid owner any longer, and any maintenance being performed on the cache is being performed by the very cachers that find it. Which sort of proves that with the proper text on this new cache's page, that minor maintenance can be performed by cache finders until the owner takes his yearly trip for more complete maintenance.

 

The cache is already in place. So I don't see what good not approving it does anyone.

[+Amazon Annie]

I have done the Bowron Lakes circuit (admittedly it was probably 30 years ago) and the area is remote and the circuit took us 4 days to complete.

 

Any cache placed in there would be subject to animal invasion (constant bear sighting while we were there) and the owner would need to be willing to attend to the cache within a short time frame - would this be possible?

 

Even urban caches are subject to discovery by little critters - the thought of a cache abandoned and scattered around a campsite in the Bowron Lake area makes me shudder. It was one of the most memorable canoe trips I have taken and I'd hate to think of reportings of an abandoned cache in that park.

 

Please, keep 'em close and keep 'em maintained so that the sport/hobby/obsession stays fun for all of us.

[+Tidalflame]

Don't want to take sides here, but the closest towns to the other Bowron cache appear to be McBride and Wells. The Geocaching population in those two towns (put together!) could probably be described in one bit (it's either one or zero.) The closest city with a decent Geocaching population is probably Prince George, which is where I live, but that's still at least 200km away by car. Thus, even if someone closer (ie. me) adopted the cache, it wouldn't make maintainence easier... I've never been to the Bowron Lakes, and I doubt I could get out there once a year, let alone more than once a year. (And besides, I do have a canoe, but I'm not too fond of the idea of spending four days in one!)

 

Dogbreath has a good point, though. As you said yourself, Annie, the circuit takes at least 4 days to complete. Nobody can really rush out and get to the cache within a few days of a problem being reported, regardless of where they live. Making a trip like this takes a lot of planning - I'd imagine most of us would need at least a month to prepare to get out to this thing (it's not easy to get time off!)

 

The way I see it, there are some places where a cache just cannot be easily maintained. However, I don't think that that should necessarily prevent a cache from being placed in such a place. When you go out to do a cache like this (or any other 4+ terrain cache), you pretty much have to accept that you're going to spend a great deal of time and effort and you may not find the cache anyway.

 

Well, whatever happens, I trust mtn-man's judgment.

[+dogbreathcanada]

The way I see it, there are some places where a cache just cannot be easily maintained. However, I don't think that that should necessarily prevent a cache from being placed in such a place.

Exactly. And living 20KM or 500KM from Bowron makes little difference. Hopefully mtn-man will look at this cache again, and instead of viewing the gc.com guidelines as strict rules, instead view them as the guidelines they were meant to be, and take each cache at its individual merits (and the merits of the cache owner.)

[+mtn-man]

OK, lets say the cache is listed.

 

1. What if two years from now, the cache has a problem and the cache owner turns out to be just a short time cacher (as happens all too often). They cannot be contacted and have not visited the site for 18 months. Email is bouncing and the user shows as "Not Validated".

 

2. What if caches get banned in that area and the user has dropped out?

 

Who is going to fix problems with the cache?

Are you volunteering dogbreathcanada?

 

The drop-out rate for cachers is the reason for the guideline. Better to address the situation *now* while the cacher is still active than to cross our collective fingers and hope for the best. Past experience shows over and over that listing caches like this is *not* the correct course of action.

 

The reason why guidelines exist is because of real world experience.

Edited August 15, 2005 by mtn-man

[+dogbreathcanada]

OK, lets say the cache is listed.

 

1. What if two years from now, the cache has a problem and the cache owner turns out to be just a short time cacher (as happens all too often). They cannot be contacted and have not visited the site for 18 months. Email is bouncing and the user shows as "Not Validated".

 

2. What if caches get banned in that area and the user has dropped out?

 

Who is going to fix problems with the cache?

Are you volunteering dogbreathcanada?

 

The drop-out rate for cachers is the reason for the guideline. Better to address the situation *now* while the cacher is still active than to cross our collective fingers and hope for the best. Past experience shows over and over that listing caches like this is *not* the correct course of action.

 

The reason why guidelines exist is because of real world experience.

All good points ... except 2-poco is not a short-term cacher. Just checking his membership and caching history shows that. He's been a member since 2003, and has been placing caches since April 2004.

 

Perhaps 2-poco would be happy to adopt that other Bowron cache as well, doing a maintenance check on it next year.

 

As for my adopting the caches if 2-poco were to go AWOL. If I thought I could get out to Bowron every year, I would gladly do so. But when I do the circuit, I will be sure to check with the cache owners ahead of time and bring all necessary items (small L&L, small logbooks, pencil, sharpener) to assist them with maintenance.

 

And if there is a problem, all that is required is a note posted on the cache page by an approver requesting that the next cacher in remove all the cache contents so that the cache can be archived. You did that very thing with a cache on the slopes of Black Mountain here, and in two weeks the cache (all that remained of it) was collected and removed from the mountain, and the cache was archived permanently.

 

Anyhow, the cache is already in place. Right now the cache could become a problem and no one would know about it. At least if the cache is approved, any problems become public knowledge and the community can help rectify the situation.

[+mtn-man]

Anyhow, the cache is already in place. Right now the cache could become a problem and no one would know about it. At least if the cache is approved, any problems become public knowledge and the community can help rectify the situation.

Wrong.

 

Right now only one cacher knows where the cache is. Even if a community member does go check it, how are they going to know if it is gone if they don't know *exactly* where it is?

 

Once again, this topic is NOT for discussion of caches place while traveling. This topic is about trying to see if anyone will adopt this cache. If you want to discuss the semantics about caches placed while traveling:

 

1. Please use the search option to research this well discussed topic.

2. Then if you feel you have something new to add please start a new topic in the Geocaching Topics forum.

3. Email your concerns to the contact address.

[+dogbreathcanada]

Well, unapproved, if the cache becomes a problem it is still a reflection on GC.com if a parks authority locates it, since I assume it contains GC.com material. If it were approved, then the community could deal with any issues that arise because of it.

 

And the point of adoption is that jsut because a cacher lives near Bowron doesn't make it easier for them to maintain the cache. You're looking for an adoptee based on a fallacy.

 

Doing Bowron requires at least 2 weeks preparation, so living 50KM from Bowron, or 500KM is of little consequence. It seems the adoption rules are misguided in some respects.

 

2-poco, as someone who visits the site yearly, is the perfect person to own a cache in the Bowron area (even if he lives in the Vancouver region). You don't need to find an adoptee, because you've already got a cache owner more than qualified for the position.

 

If you're not going to allow 2-poco to own a cache there, you might as well disallow all caches in Bowron Provincial Park, because distance of home coords from the park is of little consequence. As long as the cache owner lives in BC, in this instance, that's qualification enough.

[+mtn-man]

Third and final notice.

 

Any further off topic posts may subject the user to warnings and/or disabled posting. Please stop derailing this topic. If you would like to adopt this cache, please feel free to help out.