+thekueglers Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 An interesting story in the news today. Who will caim the FTC (first to cache)? Waterfall "discovered" Quote Link to comment
WH Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Its in a National Park, so unless its gets listed as a virtual, nobody. Quote Link to comment
+thekueglers Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 Ahh, yes. Still, even as a virtual, hard to find a place so few have seen! Quote Link to comment
+VegasCacheHounds Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Man, thats cool. Too bad it is a NP, otherwise that would make a killer cache site. I wonder...would that have enough 'Wow' factor? I mean, it is just another waterfall, right? Quote Link to comment
+BillsBayou Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Go there and claim it for the "Beauty of Waterfalls" locationless cache. Quote Link to comment
+KKTH3 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Unless something changed - that isn't a National Park. When I lived in Redding, that area was part of the Shasta-Trinity-Whiskeytown National Recreation Area. I have no idea what the caching policies are for that area, but I do know of caches in other NRA places such as Flaming Gorge NRA on the Wyoming-Utah border. My dad had a close friend named Dick McDermott from when we lived in Redding when he worked for the Fish & Game up there. I have no idea if its the same guy mentioned in the article, but its possible. I guess as much time as my dad spent in Whiskeytown in the 60s its possible he may know about the falls as well. It seems like it was more well known at that time and was more "forgotton" than now recently "discovered" Quote Link to comment
Apollo Bob Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Don’t go chasing waterfalls. Please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you’re used to. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 At what point does a creek running down hill become a waterfall? Is there a certain degree drop that makes the diff? Quote Link to comment
+Team Red Oak Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I thought the same thing about placing a cache when I saw the article today. If it can be done, it would be a nice area find a cache in. Quote Link to comment
+tabulator32 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Don’t go chasing waterfalls. Please stick to the rivers and the lakes thatyou’re used to. Quote Link to comment
+VegasCacheHounds Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 National Rec Areas are managed byt the same folks as National Parks, and therefore fall under the same regs. Near Las Vegas there is the Lake Mead NRA, and there used to be a few caches within its boundaries. They are all gone, as they got yanked due to the policy. Quote Link to comment
+VegasCacheHounds Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Don’t go chasing waterfalls. Please stick to the rivers and the lakes thatyou’re used to. Great, now I'm gonna have that song stuck in my head Quote Link to comment
danook Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Don’t go chasing waterfalls. Please stick to the rivers and the lakes thatyou’re used to. Great, now I'm gonna have that song stuck in my head There are worse songs to have stuck in your head. For example, the "Rubber Ducky" song is almost impossible to get out of your head once it's in there. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Thaks. As it turns out, I'd rather have 'Rubber Ducky' roaming around in there. Quote Link to comment
+bigdog999 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) Let's have a chorus "Rubby Ducky you're the one who makes bathtime lot's of fun......" Edited August 12, 2005 by bigdog999 Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Oh Rubber Ducky I'm awfully fond of you. Quote Link to comment
+OHMIKY Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) just because they (National Parks and National Rec Areas) are managed by the same people is no reason to assume they are subject to the same rules - if you really want to know, I suggest you shoot off an email rather than jumping to contusions. (edited to fix grammar) Edited August 12, 2005 by OHMIKY Quote Link to comment
+sept1c_tank Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 - if you really want to know, I suggest you shoot off an email rather than jumping to contusions. (edited to fix grammar) Jumping to contusions is not healthy. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 just because they (National Parks and National Rec Areas) are managed by the same people is no reason to assume they are subject to the same rules - if you really want to know, I suggest you shoot off an email rather than jumping to contusions. (edited to fix grammar) Based on two years of reviewing geocache submissions, I think it's quite safe to assume that any land managed by the National Park Service is subject to a ban on geocaching, unless and until proven otherwise. It doesn't matter if it's a National Park, National Recreation Area, National Monument or whatever. I can point to at least three examples of caches placed WITH PERMISSION in National Recreation Areas within my review territory. In each case, after I noted the NPS ban, the cache hider contacted the local ranger and reported back that permission was obtained. So, I listed the caches. Again in each case, once supervisory personnel within the National Park Service learned that the caches were present, the caches were removed by park rangers. Permission given at a lower level was rescinded at a higher level. Here is a sample of a recent "Should be Archived" log for one of these caches: Ladies and Gentlemen, The {XYZ} Cache was removed from the site and confiscated by National Park Rangers on July 11, 2005. The site location is on public lands managed by the {Name of National Recreation Area}. Geocaching on public lands of the National Park Service is illegal and subject to regulations established by Congress. The Park Service encourages the adherence to all park laws and regulations for the benefit of public lands for future generations. What contusion would anyone like to jump to? Quote Link to comment
+VegasCacheHounds Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) just because they (National Parks and National Rec Areas) are managed by the same people is no reason to assume they are subject to the same rules - if you really want to know, I suggest you shoot off an email rather than jumping to contusions. (edited to fix grammar) Hey, all I was saying is that all the caches in the Lkae Mead Nat. Rec area got yanked, and the reason cited was the NP ban, and that new caches will not be approved there for the same reason. Whether or not this applies to other NRAs is unknown to me, I was just saying..... Plus, I'd rather not do any jumping that results in contusions EDIT: Ah, heck, KA went and backed up my earlier post while I was busy backpedelling, now I look foolish Edited August 12, 2005 by VegasCacheHounds Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Just edit you post and fill it full of bravado. Quote Link to comment
+Hemlock Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 just because they (National Parks and National Rec Areas) are managed by the same people is no reason to assume they are subject to the same rules Actually, all lands managed by the National Parks Service, or the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, *are* off-limits to geocaches. Read the guidelines, specifically the first point under "Off-limit (Physical) Caches" It should be noted that not all NRAs are managed by the Park Service. Some are, but there are many that are not. Quote Link to comment
+Colorado Cacher Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I agree if the parks department wants to get there let them build their own trail. The less traveled the better. Quote Link to comment
Tahosa and Sons Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Cool. You never know what you will find in the boonies. Quote Link to comment
+TresOkies Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Not to derail the conversation from whether you have a right to leave a cache there, but I'm curious where it actually is. Looking at Crystal Creek on Garmin US TOPO, I see some likely places, but none really jump out at me. Three tiers dropping 400 feet would be noticable on a map. There are a few places with sharp elevation changes, but there are roads or campsites nearby. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it would've been "found" before now if it were near a road or campsite. I'm going to wager a guess that it might be at or near N40 36.382 W122 41.236 or N40 37.076 W122 40.183 The second one is labeled at "stream" in US TOPO but it feeds into what is labeled Crystal Creek a little further down. Any other guesses? Quote Link to comment
blocko1000 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 what is meant by "three tiers"? Is that equivalent to three stories? Quote Link to comment
+Cache Viking Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 The following is from the National Park Service page for the Whiskeytown area. It indicates that of the three parts of the Whiskeytown - Shasta - Trinity National Recreation Area, the Whiskeytown Unit is the only unit administered by the National Park Service. Depending on where the falls are may make a big difference. In any case contacting the management unit for the area should answer all your Whiskeytown Fall Cache placement questions. As for songs sticking in your head this one usually does it. Quote Link to comment
+Cache Viking Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 (edited) oooops ... wrong thread. Edited August 13, 2005 by Cache Viking Quote Link to comment
+TeamAO Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 It would be awesome if a geocacher found a huge land formation and placed a cache where this formation was undiscovered by even locals and geologists. Great story, too bad it's NPS regulated. Quote Link to comment
57chevy Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Badgers, Badgers... We don't neeed no stinking Badgers!!! Quote Link to comment
fzyo0001 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Don’t go chasing waterfalls. Please stick to the rivers and the lakes thatyou’re used to. Great, now I'm gonna have that song stuck in my head There are worse songs to have stuck in your head. For example, the "Rubber Ducky" song is almost impossible to get out of your head once it's in there. this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people starteds singing it and the'll continue singing it Quote Link to comment
WH Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 (edited) this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that doesn't end it goes on and on again some people started singing it and they'll continue singing it forever just becasue...... Edited August 14, 2005 by WH Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 (edited) At what point does a creek running down hill become a waterfall? Is there a certain degree drop that makes the diff? The only "official falls" in Michigan's Lower Penninsula is Ocqueoc Falls. It's largest drop is five feet. It really looks like just a small rapids, but someone has designated it a falls. There's a World Waterfall Database I found recently; they don't even count any of the many falls in the Upper Penninsula (nothing under 300 feet is good enough for them, unless it has a large volume). The site has some amazing pictures. I saw the posted story a few days ago. I'm stunned that something like this can still be out there. It sounds like there are even trails right to it, it's just that few people take them. Edited August 15, 2005 by Dinoprophet Quote Link to comment
+The Blind Acorn Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 As for songs sticking in your head this one usually does it. why must you torment us like that.... Quote Link to comment
+Cache Viking Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 As for songs sticking in your head this one usually does it. why must you torment us like that.... ... why not? Especially when there is also this one. BTW I sure hope someone puts a cache as close as possible to the Whiskeytown Falls. I would like to know better where it is. Quote Link to comment
+Ladybug Kids Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 (edited) National Rec Areas are managed byt the same folks as National Parks, and therefore fall under the same regs. The National Recreation Areas outside of Fairbanks fall under BLM jurisdiction. BLM is pretty geocaching friendly except for very specific sensitive or research areas within the boundaries of the jurisdiction. National Wildlife Refuges (like Arctic National Wildlife Refuge) fall under US Fish and Wildlife, which just removed on cache from ANWR and halted approval of a second. Edit: What Hemlock said a ways above...should read entire thread before posting...didn't realize NRAs could fall under National Park jurisdiction, too. Edited August 15, 2005 by Ladybug Kids Quote Link to comment
+hidegoseek Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 BTW I sure hope someone puts a cache as close as possible to the Whiskeytown Falls. I would like to know better where it is. Vader Spade logged Whiskeytown Falls as a locationless cache last week. Thanks to him I hiked out and found the falls the other day. A sign at the trailhead lists the falls as 1.7 miles, but the trail crew told me it could be a few years until they are finished. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 National Wildlife Refuges (like Arctic National Wildlife Refuge) fall under US Fish and Wildlife, which just removed on cache from ANWR and halted approval of a second. No caching there, but it its OK to drill for oil. Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Earthcache Yep! Waymarking, including the Earthcache category, is well-suited to NPS-managed land. Quote Link to comment
+TeamAO Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Waymarking will open a big door for cache-less caches in National Parks. Quote Link to comment
+MtnMike Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 When is NRA not NRA. The same NRA with the waterfall has previously had one virtual registered. It just had a small cache published, "X" GCQ23Z. Perhaps it is the proximity to the road but this is the first non-virtual in the NRA. If there are exceptions, it would be nice to understand the reason. Quote Link to comment
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