Logging 'not Found' As A Note

August 9, 2005

I've seen a couple of notes on cache logs that are obviously 'not founds'.

Why do people do that, I wonder? Is it to keep their average up in some way?

August 9, 2005

I have recently changed a DNF to a note as soon as I realised that the problem was my inability to enter the correct co-ords. into my GPS and my failure to find that micro was not a problem with the cache.

I know some people look at the number of DNFs and if there are a couple of recent ones they don't go out to search for the cache. If I had left the DNF in the logs then that would reflect badly and unfairly on the cache. People who use GSAK can immediately see the number of DNFs in the last four logs without opening the cache page.

If I think the cache is missing and I made a proper search then I will log a DNF as that alerts the owner to a potential problem.

Zensunni ( Ken )

Edited August 9, 2005 by zensunni

August 9, 2005

If it's a multi then I leave a note, anything else like a trad/micro then I put a DNF

August 9, 2005

Hi,

I add a note if I went out and found all the clues, but didn't get to the final spot. It shows the owner that people are looking for the cache.

I only log a DNF if I have had a good look and after reading the hint can't find it.

See ya...Gary

August 9, 2005

It depends on your interpretation I guess.

We log DNFs if we searched and could not find (believe me, there are plenty of them!). If the area was unapproachable because of the number of people about, I would log a note rather than compromise the cache by looking for it and being noticed, though I would usually try to go back a couple of times on the same day to try to get to it (read London caches here!).

Similarly, if for example, the park is closed, I would use a note to let people know the times. The same if we had already logged a find and were dropping off TBs. If we started out but never even got to the site and it was a funny story anyway - another note.

The only other time would be if our 'write up' was too long (not sure whether many people have noticed this, but you are only allowed a certain amount of space to write in!).

I know it sounds like a lot of notes, but really there are only about half a dozen - just lots of different reasons.

2.3k · August 9, 2005

i put a note on two caches yesterday that i could not find

cache one we could not look for because upon entering the park there were loads of kids hanging about, so as travers said we did not look to save the cache

the second cache the coordinates were way out and we ended up in the middle of a beach with no where around to hide a cache

i would not class these as did not finds

1.8k · August 9, 2005

What is the problem with a DNF if you get there and the coordinates seem wrong? Either you have it wrong (a DNF) or the setter got it wrong (a DNF). Have I missed something important????

If you got there and the cache had been stolen, would that be a DNF or another note? The reluctance to post DNFs is beginning to irritate me - I have just chased up on a DNF log on one of the caches I maintain, and discovered that several previous cachers have posted "finds" despite their logs indicating that the cache was missing.

Recently I found an ammo box that had been muggled and posted a find - but also mailed the owner to make it clear that if the owner wished, I would post it as DNF instead - it is now a DNF. Maybe I should have posted a note instead if this accepted practice!

August 9, 2005

What is the problem with a DNF if you get there and the coordinates seem wrong? Either you have it wrong (a DNF) or the setter got it wrong (a DNF). Have I missed something important????

If you got there and the cache had been stolen, would that be a DNF or another note? The reluctance to post DNFs is beginning to irritate me - I have just chased up on a DNF log on one of the caches I maintain, and discovered that several previous cachers have posted "finds" despite their logs indicating that the cache was missing.

Recently I found an ammo box that had been muggled and posted a find - but also mailed the owner to make it clear that if the owner wished, I would post it as DNF instead - it is now a DNF. Maybe I should have posted a note instead if this accepted practice!

Agree with most of what you say, especially as as one of our recent hikes across the moors resulted in a DNF due to old co-ords and our stupid fault in not noticing that the cache had been relocated.

On the other hand, as a cache owner who likes to maintain our caches as best as possible, we'd rather people added a note than nothing at all. There have been a few instances when we've visited a cache where the area is all tramped down but nothing has been logged - I don't really care what people log it as, so long as they let us know that it needs to be checked out.

August 10, 2005

I have more DNF's than finds, but as they are found before I try, and after I have tried, I put it down to either, lack of experience, deviousness, ability, grey cells, or just plain shortsightedness.

On the other hand, I have tried one particular cache (starlight castle) that everyone seems to find except me, annoying cos I can almost see it from my house, I am thinking that El Lobo has a hit squad watching for me, and when I turn up, they remove the cache, video me searching high and low for hours, then replace it when I leave, sit watching the video in a group wetting themselves laughing at my efforts. Or am I just being paranoid? :lol: :lol:

next time I go there it is with my new JCB and planning permission

stay safe

Bill

August 10, 2005

Black and white as far as i am concerned either you found it or you did not. Jackplug

August 10, 2005

I have logged one DNF. I looked for two hours and could not locate it.

When i returned home i went to check my co-ords were right, i was still inputing by hand then.

The reason i logged DNF was to alert the placer it may have been muggled or moved.

don

9.4k · August 10, 2005

This question comes up quite frequently. People respond with some excuse or another about why they don't post DNF's or try to rationalize it in some way. I don't understand why people don't want to post DNF's. It comes down to one simple question:

Did you find it?

If yes, post a find. If no, post a did not find.

Your log should tell the story "I mistyped the coords", "I forgot my flashlight", "I couldn't find a place to park", etc.

Why make it difficult by rationalizing the type of log to leave?

August 10, 2005

A general rule of thumb that we picked up from another cacher is pretty simple to follow:

You get out of the car, you're logging something, either a DNF or a Found.

Of course this does have a grey area when you're on foot or bike. In these cases we make sure we're looking ahead and if we think we're not going to be able to search (due to muggles) then we stop and leave (in these cases we typically post a note). If at anytime though we begin actually looking for the cache, we always log a DNF or Found.

There's nothing wrong with logging a DNF folks, no one is pointing and laughing at you because you've logged 120 DNFs and only 75 Finds. Well, maybe they are, but it's kinda hard to see through the monitor. <_<

AZBliss02

August 10, 2005

I posted 2 notes instead of 'DNF's the other day...i found the 2 locations for sure as there were telltale cache remains at both locations.....so i found parts of both caches.(As other cachers had)..why should i post a DNF for caches that have obviously been muggled ?.After all , i found parts of both caches.

Thats my view on it.

1.8k · August 10, 2005

If a DNF is because the placer got the coordinates wrong, or the cache has been muggled or whatever - a DNF means nothing at all as far as the reputation of the cacher is concerned. I mean, who keeps stats on this anyway? I am not a numbers player, but even if I was, I would rather cache owners and cache searchers got a true record of what was going on - posting notes just confuses the issue, and is cheating the numbers. If people use GSAK to filter out DNFs without reading the logs that is no excuse, it is a problem for those that use GSAK in such blunt a manner.

Another view is to consider the eputation of the cacher - if a person with lots of finds, or a well known reputation for finding difficult caches, I want to know when they DNF - it will provide so much info on the cache - not on them!

2.1k · August 10, 2005

I post a DNF when I hunted for the cache exhaustively, and could not find it (and am pretty sure that it isn't there).

I post a note if I couldn't find it because I had to/wanted to leave before searching exhaustively. If it's 110 degrees, horseflies are thick in the air, I've sprained my ankle, my son is crying, etc. ...then I often call off my hunt, and post a note.

I post DNFs when I'm pretty sure the cache is gone, and want the cache-owner to know about it; I post a note if I couldn't find the cache, but it may very well be there. I do this because this is how I want other cachers to treat my caches. When someone posts a dnf on one of my caches, I hustle out to find/fix/replace it, so I'd just as soon I was alerted every time someone just gave up.

nfa-jamie

2.5k · August 11, 2005

I post DNFs when I'm pretty sure the cache is gone, and want the cache-owner to know about it; I post a note if I couldn't find the cache, but it may very well be there. I do this because this is how I want other cachers to treat my caches. When someone posts a dnf on one of my caches, I hustle out to find/fix/replace it, so I'd just as soon I was alerted every time someone just gave up.

I find this a bit strange, how can you tell it was still there if you did not find it?

Sometimes a string of DNFs tells the cache owner there may be something wrong, even if none of the cachers found a tell tale ripped up log book and broken tupperware.

To me it's simple - if I did not find it, I post a DNF, if I did not look (due to whatever reason, muggles, run out of time, etc) I would post a note.

Mind you, if we can now log things as founds when we know where they were but did not actully lay hands on them, then I am off to retrospectively log Learned Gerbil's Green Park caches, as I know exactly where they were, just didn't sign the logs... :lol: (only joking LG!)

August 11, 2005

I still think there's a place for notes... If I search for a cache and don't find it, I'll post a DNF. If I don't even get as far as searching (gate locked, bull in field, car broke down) I still want to share that with people but don't want to give any implications that the cache might not be findable..

If I search for two hours within "ground zero" of a cache and can't find it, I'll DNF. No probs.

..If I see a conventional DNF, a lot of times it is a prelude to a missing cache. If I see a note, it's often a tale of woe as to why a cache attempt had to be binned/postposed etc.

Just my thinking, apologies if I've repeated views further up the thread.

2.1k · August 11, 2005

I post DNFs when I'm pretty sure the cache is gone, and want the cache-owner to know about it; I post a note if I couldn't find the cache, but it may very well be there. I do this because this is how I want other cachers to treat my caches. When someone posts a dnf on one of my caches, I hustle out to find/fix/replace it, so I'd just as soon I was alerted every time someone just gave up.

I find this a bit strange, how can you tell it was still there if you did not find it?

as per my earlier post

I post a note if I couldn't find it because I had to/wanted to leave before searching exhaustively. If it's 110 degrees, horseflies are thick in the air, I've sprained my ankle, my son is crying, etc. ...then I often call off my hunt, and post a note.

If I am unable to do a complete search, for whatever reason, before leaving, then I don't post a dnf, I post a note saying that I couldn't find it this time, and that I'll be back (which is essentially what you said that you do).

nfa-jamie

Edited August 11, 2005 by NFA

August 11, 2005

I post DNFs when I'm pretty sure the cache is gone, and want the cache-owner to know about it; I post a note if I couldn't find the cache, but it may very well be there. I do this because this is how I want other cachers to treat my caches. When someone posts a dnf on one of my caches, I hustle out to find/fix/replace it, so I'd just as soon I was alerted every time someone just gave up.

I find this a bit strange, how can you tell it was still there if you did not find it?

as per my earlier post

I post a note if I couldn't find it because I had to/wanted to leave before searching exhaustively. If it's 110 degrees, horseflies are thick in the air, I've sprained my ankle, my son is crying, etc. ...then I often call off my hunt, and post a note.

If I am unable to do a complete search, for whatever reason, before leaving, then I don't post a dnf, I post a note saying that I couldn't find it this time, and that I'll be back (which is essentially what you said that you do).

nfa-jamie

Well it's a DNF then isn't it?

I can't understand this argument, if you set out to find a cache and failed then it's a DNF .

2.1k · August 11, 2005

Well it's a DNF then isn't it?

I can't understand this argument, if you set out to find a cache and failed then it's a DNF .

That's your interpretation of the game, and you're welcome to it...prepare for a shock...it's not critical that you understand or even agree with how I play the game...the op asked about notes vs dnfs, I answered.

There are over 100,000 geocaches listed on gc.com that I did not find as of yesterday, I have not posted dnfs for all of them even though I haven't found them; and on a fair number of them, I've looked at the online maps and thought about approaches (does that constitute a hunt?).

There are caches in my area that I haven't found, even though I drive by their location (I know via online maps) everyday...I haven't posted dnfs for those caches either.

I see the DNF as a way to inform the cache owner that I think their cache is missing or destroyed, not a way to keep score. I see the note as a way to communicate with the cache-owner or other geocachers about the cache. Since my logs, other than founds, aren't tracked, I play that portion of the game the way that makes the most sense to me (I am a strict traditionalist about how I log my finds, since they are tracked, and could concievably have an impact on other peoples' game).

If you don't agree, play differently (and feel free to put a black mark in my "permanent record").

nfa-jamie

Edited August 11, 2005 by NFA

1.7k · August 11, 2005

I can't understand this argument, if you set out to find a cache and failed then it's a DNF .

Not in my book.

If I don't find the cache because my batteries die on me. I can't get to the cache site because of muggles. I just get fed up with being soaked to the skin and decide to head for the nearest pub. I find the parking place I picked isn't suitable and leave that cache for another day. I decide I don't like the look of that bloody great hill in front of me and decide to go home and try to scope out a better way of getting there.

All these are notes - or no post on the cache page at all.

If I look for a cache for half an hour. Turn over every stone, look in every likely looking place, bash down 20 feet of head high nettles and still can find the pesky thing - now THAT's a DNF.

The subtle difference is DNF (did not find) against DNL (did not look)

-

August 11, 2005

couldn't agree more, there must be some amount of effort gone into a search before classing it as a no find!

1.1k · August 11, 2005

In my opinion, I don't think it really matters which you use, as the Cache Owner will get a notification of both. The important thing is to log something if you've made an unsucessful attempt.

If you log a note of a dnf, then the cache owner will know that you've made an unsucessful attempt, and depending on your comments, go and check it's still there, or email you to offer advice / gloat about how pathetic your hunting skills are :lol:

Having said that, I'm trying to find one at the moment, but although I drive past it twice a day, I haven't had time to look, hopefully I will tonight on my way home.

August 11, 2005

Of course the old argument of play it as you like. Which is exactly the way it should be (within the guidlelines). So why do we keep getting questions like the one that started this thread?

I'm only stating my position and commenting on your last statement "If I haven't searched exhaustively...". Then you have searched, you've got out of the car, you've attempted the cache, it even sounds like you've got as far as the cache location - to me (and for me common sense tells me) that would be a DNF. If you've driven to the parking area and thought sod it I can't be arsed today then maybe not.

2.1k · August 11, 2005

insert pic of dead horse here :lol:

Edited August 11, 2005 by NFA

August 11, 2005

Here you are :lol:

1.1k · August 11, 2005

Here you go:

August 11, 2005

Or...

August 11, 2005

Blimey, great minds and all that...

1.1k · August 11, 2005

Or the same Google images search! :lol:

Also found:

Edited August 11, 2005 by NickPick

August 11, 2005

If I get to the cache location, but can't find the cache after a reasonable hunt, then I log a DNF.

If I set out to do a cache but can't get within a reasonable distance or start searching (adverse conditions on the ground, too many people around) then I'll just post a note. I haven;t done enough work to warrant a DNF, but at least by leaving a note I let the cache owner know that their cache has attracted my interest.

2.5k · August 11, 2005

I find this a bit strange, how can you tell it was still there if you did not find it?

as per my earlier post

I post a note if I couldn't find it because I had to/wanted to leave before searching exhaustively. If it's 110 degrees, horseflies are thick in the air, I've sprained my ankle, my son is crying, etc. ...then I often call off my hunt, and post a note.

If I am unable to do a complete search, for whatever reason, before leaving, then I don't post a dnf, I post a note saying that I couldn't find it this time, and that I'll be back (which is essentially what you said that you do).

Ah, on re-reading your original post, I think we are actually saying the same thing, so tempting though it is, I will not join in the further baiting of you

2.1k · August 11, 2005

Ah, on re-reading your original post, I think we are actually saying the same thing, so tempting though it is, I will not join in the further baiting of you

on re-reading the thread, I am certain we have all been saying the same thing, so I'm glad you resisted the urge.

nfa-jamie

Logging 'not Found' As A Note

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