Can I Claim This Cache?

[+Dave and Vicky]

I recently looked for a cache in Northumbria .... but it had gone. I emailed the owner and described where it had obviously been hidden so he that he knew it had gone. He confirmed I had been in the right place and that it had indeed gone. W

 

What do others do? Do I claim it or not? I'm very unlikely to be in the area again for years.

 

Dave and Vicky

[+McDeHack]

If you did not find it although it has gone, You did not find it.

You could clain a DNF.

 

Also I thought that the 'Log had to be signed to verify a find.

Edited August 7, 2005 by McDeHack

[+Cave Troll and Eeyore]

I would ask the owner whether he is happy for you to log it.

[Dave from Glanton]

I would ask the owner whether he is happy for you to log it.

The cache in question is one of mine.

 

From the info I got from Dave & Vicky by email, I'm convinced that they would have found the cache if it had been there to find. Based on that, I would be OK about them claiming it as a find, but...

 

There have been a few discussions here recently about how far you can stretch the concept of DNF-but-claiming-a-find-anyway. Quite a few responses were along the lines of if the log wasn't signed, then it can't be claimed. This particular case is different because there wasn't a log book at the time. The description of the site given by Dave & Vicky corresponds to exactly what the cache location looks like on the ground.

 

I suggested posing this question on the forum, as I didn't want to find myself doing something unpopular by saying that it was OK for them to claim this cache as a find.

 

Incidentally, seeing as I had to go hunting to see where my cache box had gone to before reinstating it, I wonder if I can claim a find for my own cache???? Just a thought......

Edited August 7, 2005 by Dave from Glanton

[+Chris&MaryB]

We've found several caches that have gone missing, and other cachers have visited the correct place and found one of our caches missing. We always claim them as DNF, as have the people visiting ours. After all, you didn't find it.

[+Cave Troll and Eeyore]

If it was my cache and they had found the remains after it was muggled I would allow it.

However if the cachers had travelled a great distance to find it and where definately in the correct place and it had gone I would consider allowing a find log.

Just my own opinion though.

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

At the end of the day, it's your cache and your decision. Just do what you personal feel is right.

 

Dave

[+S&G.Davison]

Have done both - both on the OK from the owner. One was in ths US (we're in the UK) where we would be unable to revisit and had sent loads of photos to say where we were. Then another in the UK we did a DNF then wnet on to do a find when it was replaced.

 

Sue

[+Snosrap]

General rule (stated several times elsewhere in this forum): Log not signed, no find.

 

However, in my view this rule can be trumped by the higher function: the cache-setter can define his/her own rules!

 

Therefore I'd say it is entirely at the cache-owner's discretion whether a claim is allowed or not.

 

If it were one of mine and if you logged a DNF and then you were good enough to e-mail me separately to describe the spot and advise me that you thought it had gone; I would first check that the cache had indeed disappeared, and then, if I was satisfied that you had visited the scene of the crime I would e-mail you back to say 'claim it'.

 

But, if someone were just to post a 'found it' without authorisation I would immediately delete the log.

[+Team Maddie UK]

On a personal note I feel that the spot had been found and logbook was missing...I would allow the find as a way of appreciation for letting me there was a problem.

I have seen several caches where signing a log was impossible for there either being no log book or it was full or it was damaged writing implements missing etc.. I now carry a spare log book with me for when it is neded. If it had not been missing than a less than honest person could have logged it and the owner would not run right out and check that the book had been signed or that the cache was indeed in tact.

I think that honesty deserves its own merit and should the owner feel that the reward should be a find then GREAT!!

 

Lynn

[+Wadders]

Log not signed......not found! Has to be.

[+HazelS]

I have had a cache that's been muggled, and allowed the cacher who told me it'd been muggled to log it... it's obvious he found the right spot etc,. so I allowed it... Upto the cache owner I'd say!

[+Stuey]

The clue is in the name..... "Found". If one doesn't find it..... One has DNF'd.

 

On a big day out on Dartmoor a few months ago four of us discovered that one of the eleven micros had gone from one of the tors. Did we log it as a find? No... of course not. I'll go back to try to "find" it when I am back there in the area (it has since been replaced after being muggled).

[+Simply Paul]

Just a suggestion, but you could sign the replacement log on their behalf. That way the new cache carries their name, they've visited the location and located the cache-shaped-hole. Doesn't seem unfair to me at all.

 

SP

[SlytherinAlex]

General rule (stated several times elsewhere in this forum): Log not signed, no find.

Rule??? There are not rules.

 

Do whatever you feel comfortable with.

 

Your stats and find count are nobody's business but your own.

 

The cache owner seems happy for you to log it. Forget the "cache police" - do what you think best, and move on. This is just a game after all.

 

-

[+BlueDeuce]

Yeah, cache police make or break it.

 

I worked on one that required quite an effort, found the location. No cache. The owner confirmed that the site was exactly where the cache should be. He offered to allow a find.

 

Waited until the cache was replaced and drove back (It took an hours driving time) to sign the log book.

 

Sure an owner will 'allow' a find without a logbook.

 

No thanks.

[+Couparangus]

This has come up before and seems to create division amongst 'cachers. I have no problem allowing a "find" on one of my caches that has gone awol or where the log couldn't be signed for some very valid reason. I don't believe there is any rule that says you have to sign the log book at all. As another pointed out, you click on "Found it" not "Signed Log". The whole concept of log signing goes out the window with virtual caches anyway. I've declared successful finds myself where it was impossible to find the cache container due to hints being invalidated or containers being absent or not accessible due to snow, mudslide etc. This is only a hobby people. If you start feeling overly strongly about some aspect of it I think you have to ask yourself if it has become an unhealthy obsession. There was a time when the cache container was secondary to the area it was in or the adventure to get to the location. Colour me old fashioned, but I'm still of that mindset.

 

Cheers!

Coupar-Angus

[+Jan and the Percey Boys]

I think you have to ask yourself if it has become an unhealthy obsession.

don't tell the wife - I say I do it for my health!!!

 

My view

1) Found place no cache - DNF tell log owner

2) Found place could see cache out of reach - find

3) Signed log - found

4) Concerned about location or placement - DNL (do not look) tell owner

 

BUT

There is always discretion - the Dee borecache which requires a photo I have allowed once when a cacher visiting one of my other caches described this odd phenomena on the river (he hedn't even read about the earthcache). His word picture was in my opinion adequate and I suggested that he might log it - which he subsequently did

 

If you are happy and the owner is happy I say go for it COTM atings are not that number dependant (anyway will it let you catch up the girls or rutson - doubt it!

 

Bob

[Sparticus]

(anyway will it let you catch up  rutson   

Would you want too!!

[+Happy Humphrey]

My opinion is: it's only a game, it's not a big deal if you don't find the cache although you looked in the correct spot.

 

I can understand how frustrating that is, but nevertheless just log a DNF - even if it turns out the box wasn't there anyway.

 

If you feel the need to log a find just because you got to the right place, you may be taking it a bit too seriously!

 

HH

[+The Hokesters]

I haven't read the whole thread but this is a topic which comes up quite regularly.

 

My opinion is that you play this 'game' for yourself and no one else. If you want to log this 'find' then who the hell should care?

 

Is any of us playing for money or prizes? No!

 

Apart from the Cacher of the Month table there is no contest and frankly unless you are angling for the coveted top (or bottom ) slots then log away IMHO.

[+Happy Humphrey]

you play this 'game' for yourself and no one else

 

Fine up to a point, but remember that your log on geocaching.com does affect other cachers.

 

For instance, I'll often check through the recent logs when deciding whether to try for the cache. If I'm at the cache site and struggling to locate the box, I may check the logs to see whether it's been found recently - if it was logged the day before, I'll keep on looking even if I thought I'd found the correct location.

 

Also, if several geocachers in my area began logging finds when they didn't find the caches, I don't think I'd be geocaching for much longer - why bother busting a gut to find a tricky cache when there are no "rules" and you can just say you had a quick look in the right place and didn't see anything, so you consider the cache "found"?

 

Is any of us playing for money or prizes? No!

So why not register a DNF if you're not sure that you actually completed the cache?

 

IMO if you want to be freed from the constraints of actually finding caches, why not just skip the logging process altogether as well. Then you can enjoy going on the cache hunt, getting as close as you consider necessary, then return home without needing to bother with any of the tedious admin side. No one else will be bothered, as they won't know anyway!

 

HH

[+John Stead]

IMO if you want to be freed from the constraints of actually finding caches, why not just skip the logging process altogether as well.

I almost agree with HH except that not bothering to log is in my opinion an insult to the owner of the cache.

I can think of one series where most of the log books have entries including a FTF at the final one, but the loggers have not logged on line. How does the owner know what people thought of their caches until they pay their next maintenance visit? And what about the dawn risers (not me) who thought they were getting a FTF and did not - or did they?

I think some comment on the cache page is a reward to the owner for his trouble in setting up the cache and should be more than "5th of 10 on the day". And helpful comments short of spoilers are valuable to the next seekers.

[+The Hokesters]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - you are playing the game for yourself. If you want to log it because you clearly got to the place that the cache existed then why not. I hear you when you say that the found log may throw you off the scent but one would assume that the person who found the box muggled will speak with the cache owner before logging it and by the time it is logged the owner should set as 'temp. unavailable'?

[+John & Hazel]

Step 4 – The Find

Huzzah! You found the cache! Congratulations! Now what?

 

Usually you take an item and leave an item, and enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book. It’s an accomplishment enough to locate the cache.

Make sure to seal the cache and place it back where you found it. If it had some rocks covering it, please replace them. It’s pretty straightforward.

Remember that waypoint we suggested you create where your car/trail was located? Use that now to get back! You’ll be glad you had it.

When you get home, email the person who hid the cache and let them know you found it! They’re always happy to know the condition of their cache and it’s nice to know that people are looking for them.

Great work! After several trips to geocaches in your area, you’ll be ready to place your own. Welcome to the exciting world of Geocaching!

 

 

This is from GC.Com Finding Your First Cache

Is this maybe a compromise for those that don't log their finds online?

[+Happy Humphrey]

one would assume that the person who found the box muggled will speak with the cache owner before logging it

This is my point, really: perhaps the box hadn't been muggled, but the cacher was exercising his/her right to log the cache on their own terms, i.e. without actually locating the box.

 

John:

 

except that not bothering to log is in my opinion an insult to the owner of the cache

 

I was suggesting that, for people that prefer to ignore the etiquette of caching, the game could be that they merely satisfy themselves that they did what they intended to do: in this case, navigate to the vicinity of the cache. Once in the general area, there's no need to find the box or sign the log book, and on returning home, no need to log your "find" either.

 

Not my cup of tea, but it wouldn't bother me as I'd never even know about it.

 

I'd rather keep the game simple, realising that it's just a game and if you can't find the cache (whether your fault or not), log a DNF.

 

HH

[+John Stead]

one would assume that the person who found the box muggled will speak with the cache owner before logging it

This is my point, really: perhaps the box hadn't been muggled, but the cacher was exercising his/her right to log the cache on their own terms, i.e. without actually locating the box.

 

John:

 

except that not bothering to log is in my opinion an insult to the owner of the cache

 

I was suggesting that, for people that prefer to ignore the etiquette of caching, the game could be that they merely satisfy themselves that they did what they intended to do: in this case, navigate to the vicinity of the cache. Once in the general area, there's no need to find the box or sign the log book, and on returning home, no need to log your "find" either.

 

Not my cup of tea, but it wouldn't bother me as I'd never even know about it.

 

I'd rather keep the game simple, realising that it's just a game and if you can't find the cache (whether your fault or not), log a DNF.

 

HH

This time I completely agree with you - it was the case where finders signed the logbook but didn't then log on line which I felt unfair to the owner - if he didn't know they had been at all then noone was any the wiser or sadder.

[+Tharagleb]

I recently looked for a cache in Northumbria .... but it had gone. I emailed the owner and described where it had obviously been hidden so he that he knew it had gone. He confirmed I had been in the right place and that it had indeed gone. W

 

What do others do? Do I claim it or not? I'm very unlikely to be in the area again for years.

 

Dave and Vicky

A DNF is not a personal failure on your part, it is just a record of what actually happened.

 

Sign Log = Found It

Didn't sign log = DNF

[+Dave and Vicky]

Just to point out ... we did log it as DNF.

Dave and Vicky[/size]

Edited August 8, 2005 by Dave and Vicky