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Why Even Have A Jeep Contest?


mcl143

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I found my first Jeep Rubicon about three weeks ago and my second one last weekend. I keep the first one for a while so I could show it to my Rubicon deprived fellow cachers :D. Next I had to find a “Rubicon Worthy” cache to place them in. They are both back in circulation now. I don't know how anyone in good consentience could just keep them forever.

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Well, I found my first Jeep TB last week. I wasn't even looking for one - I just opened the cache ( that I almost gave up on), and there it was. But here's the thing - this may sound crazy to all of you, but I didn't know if it was OK to keep it or not. I knew that Jeep had a contest which involved TBs, and that these were coveted to some degree. So I was thrilled when I found one. Yes, I know that Travel Bugs are supposed to travel, but I wasn't sure if this was different - after all, if thousands are sent out in each contest, and this is not the first, why are they so hard to find?

 

I went to the contest site, and saw that I couldn't use the TB for more than one photo, but there was nothing that asked me to return it to the wild. Still, I wanted to know for sure, so I looked through this forum and decided that it really should travel. So I held onto it just long enough to do my photo (and give the jeep some mileage), then turned it loose.

 

So here is my suggestion - in the contest page(s), simply add a polite reminder to turn them loose after doing the photo. Sure, it won't stop the hoarders, but I wonder if there are others like me who thought maybe they were supposed to keep them.

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You guys have to understand that the people are holding these bugs for a reason. Some of you have said that what is the point? You can only submit one photo per Jeep for the length of the contest. People are holding them because it helps them win. The theory behind it is simple, the less TB's out there, the less entries there are, hence the better my chances are.

 

I am not agreeing with the people at all. Actually a fellow cacher I know and I are trying to get the people around here to unleash them. We went to an event and this one guy alone had about 10.

 

My worst experience? I placed a WJ in a cache and then a guy logged the cache upset that it wasn't there. I thought, I just placed that there. SO I went to check it out, and the person who took it logged in the cache log, "Took Jeep, left crappy car AF DW". These people are fast at being crappy people. SO there is my piece. The more people Horde them, the less chances for everyone to enjoy the game. Let's stop killing the game and share the love.

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So here is my suggestion - in the contest page(s), simply add a polite reminder to turn them loose after doing the photo. Sure, it won't stop the hoarders, but I wonder if there are others like me who thought maybe they were supposed to keep them.

First, congratulations on your first jeep find!

 

From the Jeep pages:

 

"So make sure to leave the Travel Bug, or drop it off in the next cache so it can continue its travels!" [from contest details]

 

"If a participant finds a Travel Bug and that participant relocates the Travel Bug, (any such location must be in 48 contiguous U.S./DC), as a courtesy to fellow participants, the participant is asked to record the cache listing of the Travel Bug’s new location and then access www.geocaching.com and log the new geocache location of the relocated Travel Bug by following the instructions on www.geocaching.com/track." [from contest rules]

 

But I agree, the wording needs to be stronger. The second statement in particular reads like it's an option to move the bug, but I believe it is worded that way to account for the possibility of someone finding it in a cache, taking a photo at that site, and leaving it in the same cache as found without moving it. I don't think it's meant to imply that it is an option to keep it vs. keeping it in circulation.

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You guys have to understand that the people are holding these bugs for a reason. Some of you have said that what is the point? You can only submit one photo per Jeep for the length of the contest. People are holding them because it helps them win. The theory behind it is simple, the less TB's out there, the less entries there are, hence the better my chances are.

The sad thing is, that's not the only reason why people are hoarding them. In a lot of cases the hoarders aren't even submitting photos for the contest. They're just keeping them to collect them or something.

 

I just wish people would play fair! Between hoarding them, switching photos submitted for the contest after the deadline has passed and judging has begun, sending them overseas... and I'm sure other things I'm not even aware of... it just sucks, especially for those people who are trying to preserve the spirit of the game.

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I won't suggest that there are not those who are keeping Jeeps as tokens, or are planning to. Like WH, I have talked to those who have stated as much, and they know what I think about it. What I am suggesting is that there are those of us who are taking part in this contest legitimately and are being lumped together with those who are not.

 

Pick a travel bug, any travel bug and look at its movements, specifically the times between pickup and dropoff. You consistently see bugs that are held for 2 or 3 weeks before being placed again. Were they being hoarded? No. They moved. They moved like travel bugs move: sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but almost certainly in fits and starts.

 

This issue with most of these Jeeps is just that: they're moving like travel bugs move. What makes it seem so out of the ordinary is the timeframe of the contest. When any other TB moves twice in a month, it's typical, but apparently when a Jeep does the same, all of the sudden it's being "hoarded". Heck, the last WJTB I found I had for 2 days before dropping it into a new cache (an FTF, if you will), and it only took 3 more days to get a concerned email that the cache hadn't been activated yet!

 

I only know of 3 reasons that finding a Jeep is such a big deal:

 

1) You want a chance to win a GPSr, or a Rubicon.

You don't need to find a Jeep to win a Jeep, you just need to register on the Jeep website. As for winning a GPSr, you don't need to find a Jeep in a cache to enter that part of the contest either.

 

2) You want to add the Jeep icon to your stats page

If this is the case, I would personally be more than happy to share the tag # so you could do that. Or you could attend an event where there are Jeeps and find someone else who is willing to share the same.

 

3) You simply want to personally find one waiting for you in a cache.

You have as much chance of that as anyone else looking for a TB in a cache. Better, in fact. How many other TBs have 4999 identical brothers and sisters? You can't reasonably expect for them to be dropped close to you, or for others to wait till you have the time or means to go get them.

 

Maybe next year Jeep should just mail a Jeep TB to every cacher, except there would still be those who wouldn't be satisfied.

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The ones that really chap my hide are the people that got them in early June at an event , and still have them, you can look at the WJTBs and see 0 miles traveled. That's hoarding.

IF they really need the Token Walmart has them, Toys r Us, and ebay. Give others a chance at them, it's not all about you.

Yes, you can enter without logging a Jeep, and you can also win a Million dollars from PCH without buying a bunch of magazines too.

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It's been my unfortunate experience that almost anything desirable that you put in a cache will be traded within just one or two visits for a single jack rock, a 10 cent plastic toy, or a refrigerator magnet not suitable for display in anyone's kitchen. I think it would almost be better if people wouldn't even bother trading anything if they're going to stock your cache with junk because eventually you have to get rid of it.

 

Over the last two years, I've bought and started 12 USA Geocoins and almost every one disappeared from circulation in only a few weeks. I don't think there's any yellow jeeps within 100 miles from my location now. The same holds true for Moun10Bike coins which I've never seen listed in an actual cache. It's sad but if you ever want future cachers to have access to an item that would credit them with an icon, it seems the worst place to put that item is in a cache where it will most likely quickly disappear and never be seen again. I found two white jeeps about a month ago when they first started and I put them back out almost immediately. One was taken the following day and it's now stalled in the user's account. I put the other white jeep in my most remote cache that hadn't been found in over a year and, happily, it's still there. However, I know when it's eventually retrieved it won't last very long out in the wild either. :laughing:

 

I've received a few German geocoins and Michigan geocoins in the last week and I wouldn't even consider actually putting them in a cache. That would be a complete waste of time and money.

Edited by Cache-bert
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We have found 8 so far. But to get these we have traveled from state to state in hopes of getting one. After finding one. we usually set up a new cache in our area and post it within 2 weeks (usually 1 week) of finding the WJTB. we agree that hording them is wrong. Walmart sells them for 1.97

 

We live in Indiana, near Michigan and went across Illinos to Iowa and Through Illinois to Wisconsin to get them! My point is, if they wont come to you, then go to them and bring them into your area.

 

The fun is finding them and then seeing others scramble to find them in a new cache. They make a great FTF prize!

 

We don't expect to win anything, but we are having fun traveling state to state to find them on the weekends.

 

Check out our Entry

Edited by 501_Gang
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THere was a White Jeep dropped into a "Temporarily Unavailable" cache in my area last week.  Cache owner TU'd the cache saying it was still there but due to recent changes in the area was going to be relocated when a suitable spot could be found.  Then a week later drops a Jeep in it.  I wonder how many other suckers have went wandering around the area looking for it.

I've been watching this as well.

 

I went out there to the 'TU' cache today just out of curiousity..... I guess I found where the cache would have been hidden, or at least where I assume it was based on the coordinates and the clue and the looks of the site.

Strange situation with the Jeep being 'dropped' in it after the 'TU'-ing and no re-activation of the cache. Half of me hoped to find the Jeep in a ziploc on the ground, the other half of me was horrified at that possibility. Nothing there, though.

Guess it is just taking longer than anticipated to replace the cache....?

I have no idea what she's doing with it. She was originally going to drop the Jeep in the cache when she TU'd it. I'd been to the cache before and the area is MUCH different now. All those trees were standing before, but the area where the cache was is still intact. There's a ammo-can sized "hole" in the "moss and concrete".. that's where it was. I went out there about 2am, it was either the day she logged it or the next one. Nobody has logged it out. Only thing I can figure is she "dropped" the bug in her TU cache figuring nobody would be watching it... to get the "you've had this TB in your possession for more than 14 days with no activity" nag message off her account page???

 

Bad part is, it's never been in a cache. She "grabbed" it June 16th and has had it ever since. I thought it was strange that Knoxville didn't get any WJTBs. The only one I've seen in the area was the one I picked up from the "Jail" in Maryville and brought to Ktown. I had it just under two weeks and guessed as well as I could as to what the other challenges would be. Took pics of it in as many situations as I could because after finding the "Lost" YJTB from last year.. I figured this owuld be the last one I got my hands on.

 

On a side note... There was a GETGC event Saturday... there are 9 WJTBs and 4 YJTBs listed on that event page.

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My point is, if they wont come to you, then go to them and bring them into your area.

What a fantastic idea! If you're not willing to travel for one then I guess you don't really want one. I drove about 100 miles just to get a geocoin back when they were scarce. Okay, I wanted to do the cache it was in too, but the point is still valid. It all depends on how badly you want it.

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Vargseld? ™,

It doesn't have to do with only how bad you want one. I am currently doing a search within 100 mile radius of my house and there are 0 WJTB's. So yes, I guess I could go further, but why bother if those caches will be empty when I get there?

 

Don't ignore the fact that these are too scarce. If you look at the numbers 5000 WJTB's were put out. There are 189461 active caches in the world. Also, I believe there are roughly 100,000 in the US. This means that 5% of the caches should have WJTB's if no one kept them. So in a 25 mile radius of my house there are 383 caches. So in a perfect world there should be 19 WJTB's in caches. Now yes, some are micros, so they can't hold WJTB's. However, remember there are 0 in 100 miles of my house. I understand people hold them, but this has been the way it has been since they came out in June. There was only 2 that showed up in local caches and 1 disappeared, the other was grabbed quickly.

 

Also, a local cacher just moved a WJTB by handing it off to his friend. This has been the case with almost all WJTB's that are local. No one sees them except the people who originally got them and their close friends.

 

This is the issue, this is what will kill the game.

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I've seen a good suggestion in skimming these posts and have two suggestions myself.

 

Place them in extremely hard to get to caches. (I read this and did this myself with the one I found. Not too hard of one, but one where a Jeep could drive to.)

 

Place them in Premium Members Only caches. (The elitist in me comes out in this suggestion.)

 

Call out the jerks who are keeping them. (My more vindictive side.) :rolleyes:

 

Anyway, my $.02.

Edited by saabinmike
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Call out the jerks who are keeping them.

 

I would love nothing more than to announce the names of those individuals who have told me directly that they intend to keep WJTB's in their posession. However, the only good it would do is alienate people, create hard feelings and won't do anything to solve the larger problem.

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I've seen a good suggestion in skimming these posts and have two suggestions myself.

 

Place them in extremely hard to get to caches. (I read this and did this myself with the one I found. Not too hard of one, but one where a Jeep could drive to.)

This was exactly the suggestion by our local distributor, and it was a great idea for the initial release. For the most part, the cachers who found these first few Jeeps felt enough of a sense of accomplishment that they purposely re-released them back into other challenging caches. This was a nice start to the contest around here.

 

It really wasn't until the Jeeps started finding their way to less "remote" caches that they started to slow down in movement or disappear altogether.

 

The bottom line is that when the Jeeps become more accessible to a wider number of cachers, you're bound to have some less considerate (possibly even less experienced) cachers find them and sit on them.

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Some of the worst behavior I see is when an experienced geocacher logs a WJTB/YJTB as being found in a new cache and writes "took the Jeep TB as a First Finder's prize."

 

Dudes, they're not prizes. In fact, they're not trade items. I get frustrated when I have a cacher go to my sites and log something like:

 

T: Cool laser level and 4 AA batteries

L: BlahBlah TB

 

Since my wife and I have stocked our caches with cool stuff, I've started upgrading the level of difficulty to reduce the junk piles in them. That's the same rationale for my placing a Jeep TB in a really hard wilderness cache. I know it makes it almost impossible for less capable cachers to get one, but at least I moved it promptly, and the next finder will have to put some effort into obtaining the desired find/TB. I don't bother with placing them in multis- a lot of people who have solved the multi will just walk to the last stage and pull the jeep out at 2AM since they know where the last stage is.

 

I think to be fair, to enter the contest you should have found the Jeep TB in a cache that was a new find for you. Too many people just watch the local caches and go out at midnight to a previously known/found cache, without the need for GPS, and raid the container to get one. I guess that's okay if you plan to play the game and move it, but getting a Jeep TB in a new find was a real treat for me.

 

Rich

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I've seen a good suggestion in skimming these posts and have two suggestions myself.

 

Place them in extremely hard to get to caches. (I read this and did this myself with the one I found.  Not too hard of one, but one where a Jeep could drive to.)

This was exactly the suggestion by our local distributor, and it was a great idea for the initial release. For the most part, the cachers who found these first few Jeeps felt enough of a sense of accomplishment that they purposely re-released them back into other challenging caches. This was a nice start to the contest around here.

 

And that's the reason I went for SYZYGY.

 

By the way Yime, have you found that one yet? I could use an extra set of eyes on the puzzle stage.

 

Email me if you are interested.

 

Oh, back on topic. My feeling from the beginning has been that this is something rare. To get it you have to go out of your way. In got mine by running through thorns, some have had to solve puzzles, and some have had to do much more. It also makes it much more rewarding when you earn the jeep.

 

Joe Smith

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I've seen a good suggestion in skimming these posts and have two suggestions myself.

 

Place them in extremely hard to get to caches. (I read this and did this myself with the one I found.  Not too hard of one, but one where a Jeep could drive to.)

This was exactly the suggestion by our local distributor, and it was a great idea for the initial release. For the most part, the cachers who found these first few Jeeps felt enough of a sense of accomplishment that they purposely re-released them back into other challenging caches. This was a nice start to the contest around here.

 

And that's the reason I went for SYZYGY.

 

By the way Yime, have you found that one yet? I could use an extra set of eyes on the puzzle stage.

 

Email me if you are interested.

 

Oh, back on topic. My feeling from the beginning has been that this is something rare. To get it you have to go out of your way. In got mine by running through thorns, some have had to solve puzzles, and some have had to do much more. It also makes it much more rewarding when you earn the jeep.

 

Joe Smith

Hey Joe! Yes, sadly I must admit having avoided Syzygy for far to long. Having known the cache owner for a long time, I'm somewhat aware of the sheer insanity he's placed into this adventure. That being said...this is indeed the kind of "Jeep Worthy" cache that I was getting at. When someone takes the kind of time to provide you with such a memorable experience, you tend to appreciate it more. And the kind of folks that appreciate things like that are less likely to pocket a WJTB they find there.

 

I want to clarify that I don't mean to sound like this is an "experience" thing. Cachers that are newbies are moving WJTB's along just fine, but it's also a matter of frequency. Here's an example: Say there's this relatively easy cache that's been hit by over 70 different cachers during it's lifetime. If a WJTB is placed in that cache, then you have 70 different cachers that know exactly where it is, and 70 different possibilities that someone might sneak in and pocket that WJTB without anyone knowing otherwise. You would hope that they would at least log the grab, but only their conscience can force them to do that.

 

It's a catch-22 for this contest if there ever was one. GC.com and Daimler/Chrysler want the Jeeps to hit EVERYWHERE, so that they get the advertising exposure to the most possible people. Ironically, it's in that broadcasted exposure that the vehicles (pun intended) of their advertising campaign get stolen or horded, and thus removed from the campaign.

 

I suppose that's why they sent out 5000 of them. :rolleyes:

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Why even have a Jeep contest? Because it could be fun (once the kinks are worked out), and because it generates revenue for gc.com (which benefits all us).

 

Jeep contests versions 1.0 and 2.0 were both good attempts at a fun game that had unanticipated consequences. In 1.0, the rules sort of encouraged hoarding, since the more Jeeps you got the better your chances were. In 2.0, they tried to make hoarding pointless, by specifying that you could only submit one contest entry per month, and only one entry per bug for the entire duration of the contest. They didn't foresee that people would still steal them "hold them" indefinitely, regardless of how it affected their own or others' contest-entry possibilities.

 

They did attempt to address the stolen/unlogged TB issue in 2.0 by allowing contest entries for an honest attempt at finding a bug that was listed in a cache but was no longer there, but there are a couple of problems with it:

  • The unfortunate contest-judging rules for 2.0 make it almost pointless. Given how many photo entries there are that violate the contest rules, most likely people who are attempting to judge them will zip past all of the ones that don't look right: "not this one, it's been photoshopped -- not this one, there's a person in the picture -- not this one, it doesn't fit the contest category -- not this one, the cacher submitted multiple entries -- not this one, there isn't even a Jeep in it", etc.
  • This rule seemed to give some cachers justification to steal hold onto bugs: they rationalized that they aren't hurting anyone else's chances in the contest, since no Jeep is really needed to enter. All they have to do is an occasional lie virtual drop of the Jeep into a cache, and now everyone has the chance to enter the contest by going to the cache to chase the bug that was never in it.

I don't know if they arranged this part or not, but at the same time as the bugs were being released, identical versions of the Jeeps were being made readily available at Walmarts across the country for just $1.97. Maybe Jeep/GC guessed that if someone really wanted the toy that badly, they could just buy one for less than the cost of gas it could take for them to get to a cache and steal it. Sadly, they guessed wrong (even though it seems pretty reasonable).

 

So after learning the lessons of 1.0 and 2.0, it seems that if there's a 3.0 next year, it shouldn't include a TB component at all, since they'd be pretty much guaranteed to be hoarded again. There are a lot of other possibilities:

  • Maybe they could do something with "one-log-only" TB-like tokens, where once you find it and log it, it can't be used again, so feel free to go ahead and keep it. (I don't know what the logistics of distribution for these tokens would be.)
  • Maybe something similar to other contests, where there would be a bunch of caches being designated "Jeep Contest Caches", and they'd have something inside them like a stamp or paper-punch; you could print out a form from the contest website and fill it with stamps or punches and mail it in. The stamps/punches could be securely attached to the caches with cables. Hopefully the people that for some reason feel no compunction about stealing holding Jeeps would still balk at using bolt-cutters to vandalize the cache and remove the stamp/punch.
  • Something similar to that one, except instead of stamps or punches, the contest caches contains the coordinates of places to go to take a contest photo. Jeep could make these designated spots as commercial or non-commercial as they wanted.

These ideas are just off the top of my head and they are probably as flawed as the current and previous ones, but it's worth thinking about what would make a good contest that is fun and doesn't leave a lot of people bitter and upset about others' behavior. (I didn't particpate in the Magellan game -- was everyone happy there, or was there just as much angst about that contest as this one? Would there be any components of the Magellan game that would translate well to the Jeep contest?)

 

Judging & scoring should also revert back to being the responsibility of Jeep or GC. I'm not sure why they changed it from 1.0 to 2.0 -- I think I remember reading some grumbling that the essay contest that eventually won (or was one of the winners) blatantly violated the word-count limit, but was a funny parody of a popular song, so it won anway? So maybe in 2.0 they decided to absolve themselves of the judging responsibility and passed it back to cachers. Unfortunately, what that means is that the winning contest entries may have less to do with the quality of the photos than with how many friends you can convince to vote for you, or how worthy your "charitable cause" is.

 

There's definitely potential here; it just needs some tweaking.

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I was not around for the first contest so I know nothing about that experience. I agree that Jeep, etc wanted to make this a fun experience. I think in the future they could use the same idea as this year except if you want to enter the contest you have to provide your own Jeep. Go to Wal-Mart, get a $1.97 jeep toy and then you can do what you want when you're finished with the contest since you own it. They could set criteria to take pictures with your Jeep like this contest. You can enter once a month with your personal Jeep and it must meet the criteria etc. Then before posting the pictures for voting they could remove the ones that don't qualify. I know that this would not stop some from complaining (can't please all the people all the time) but I think it would definitely stop the hoarding problem.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Felberta - my picture

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We have a puzzle cache here that has a YJTB and a WJTB in it so far there has been one person that has compelted the puzzle to find the cache 7 of us can't even find the first micro, so I'd say this is a jeep worthy cache. All the local cachers have been finding them and placing back in caches for others to find. As for myself I've found 4(should have been 5 but I grabbed the wrong one first and got beaten by a day to the other one now its headed for the east coast) so far 3 were released either the same day or within 2 days of finding them. I'm not worried about the contest I just like finding them. I've still got the fourth and will release it in my next cache, just have to get the FTF prize in, a South African Geocoin) and the cache items themselves. Hoping I can make it at least a 3/4 cache.

 

As far as the hoarding issue I don't thinks its so much the jeeps themselves but the tb tag attached to it that ppl want. Maybe one solution would be to have multiple tags on each jeep one with the tb number on it the others have all the same info but in place of the number have a blank spot where people could write in their own tb numbers (there is a site that issues up to 5 free tb tag numbers) then go buy a jeep and have their very own jeep tb.

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Some of the worst behavior I see is when an experienced geocacher logs a WJTB/YJTB as being found in a new cache and writes "took the Jeep TB as a First Finder's prize."

 

Dudes, they're not prizes. ...

They're not real Jeeps either, but we still call them Jeeps.... If I just raced an unknown number of other cachers out to a cahce that had a WJTB, and got there first, you bet yer sweet bippy I'm calling it a prize. Why would that automatically mean I'm keeping it? Besides, I hardly believe any geocacher, experienced or otherwise, would write in a logbook that they took a WJTB if they intended to keep it.

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...good attempts at a fun game that had unanticipated consequences. 

HC, It's almost like NECTF all over again, isn't it? I think contest TB's might just be cursed! :rolleyes:

I was thinking that exact same thing as I was typing that stuff :unsure:

I guess the bottom line is that you can't have a perfectly "fair" game or contest in this kind of arena when there's no way to actively enforce rules.

 

In the end, it's your choice to play, and if you play to accept the situation as is. I know it's said over and over and over so I'll just turn on the cliche here (*click*, there we go...) If you don't like it, then don't play. If you do play, you have to agree to take it as it comes.

 

If you want to take part in a geocaching contest with prizes and rules that have people out to enforce them for the length of the game, come on up to North Central MA for the Great Northern Tier Geocaching Tournament. You'll forget all about the WJTB's by the end of the weekend!

 

Heck, you might just get one while you're out here.

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All this talk about hoarding...I have a question.  Has there ever been a cacher who has taunted people by logging that they deliberately plan to keep the TBs they found?

There was a guy in the Midwest that had "Kidnapped" about 100 of them, he was boasting about it. It was in the Forum about 3-4 months ago.

Edited by Cruiserdude
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"July 17 by TJLolo (503 found)

I'm making a virtual drop of 4X4 White Jeep TB, Charlton. "

I was looking for a WJTB in Arizona and found this at Ari-zonia GCN4KW. I haven't been geocaching for long but this log make no sense. Seems typical of the WJTB. Gone in an instant or never there at all.

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My 12 y/o son, prophessor007, signed up for his own account yesterday. Today, he went out to officially find his 1st cache and log it. The one that he wanted to be his 1st official was my 1st hidden ammo can. He went out there and found a WJTB placed by moun10bike, I had no idea that it was there! He got his 1st find and WJTB on the same day! He thought that was pretty cool. He also thinks that it is pretty cool that he has a WJTB and the old man doesn't! This weekend we are hiding his ammo can and he wants to put it in there for the first person to find it and keep it moving. Since I am helping him with the hide I won't cheat and "find" it just log the WJTB. I'll have to wait to find one the hard way. I hope it has a long and prosperous journey as he will be tracking it to see what it does.

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I wonder how much flack I will get for how I am handling the WJTB that I have?

 

I live in Washington State. A geocacher, who lives in Rhode Island, was planning a visit to my small hometown, which is somewhat on an island like area that is isolated from the rest of the Puget Sound, ie Seattle, Tacoma et cetera.

 

The person from RI offered me a chance to have a WJTB(I mentioned to him that they are hard to find in this area) and brought one with him. Upon his arrival, he subsequently placed into one of my difficult to find caches. Afterwards, I retrieved it and placed it into my TB motel cache, thus making it available to other cachers in my area. As a matter of interest, that is exactly what has happened, and will continue to happen, since I have other locals that want to use it for the contest as well.

 

WJTBs are few and far between in my area and have been placed into difficult to find caches or are in the hands of those that won't pass them around.

 

To counter this problem, I have done the following:

 

I have now removed the WJTB from my TB motel cache and placed it on top of my computer monitor, but it is still listed as part of my TB motel caches it's inventory. Furthormore, there are specific instruction on the cache page stating that if anyone wants to use it for the contest, to contact me by E-Mail and then arrangements can be made to get the WJTB to that local cacher. All that I ask of that cacher is to return it to my TB motel cache so another local cacher can use it.

 

Yesterday, I received an out-of-town/county inquiry regarding the WJTB. Having stated that I intended for it to be used by local cachers and the fact that the inquiring person, in subsequent E-Mail, had no real intentions of driving the distance to this area, accused me of of "hording"(bad spelling) the TB, not to mention a reference to some other cacher in her/his area that had their membership suspended for doing something wrong. To me, that sounded like an implied threat, if I didn't do as (s)he requested.

 

Is this a "big to do about nothing" or what? What's your take on this?

 

If I'm to get hassled about trying to keep a WJTB in my area for locals to use for the contest, then I'll make arrangements for it's return back to Rhode Island.

 

/\/**\/\

Edited by Fledermaus
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Fledermaus,

You must already realize what you are doing is against the rules, or you wouldn't have posted the way you did. My question to you is why you think it is right to have a TB "sitting on top of your computer monitor", instead of "TRAVELING" around.

 

Yes, take pictures, whatever.... But when you are done, put it back out there for everyone else! If it's in your area, put it back in a hard cache, or any cache for that matter.

 

Why is it so hard for people to understand the rules? If you keep it and "loan" it out to cachers, you are acting like you own it. Well, you don't, Jeep/Groundspeak does. So do what is asked and set it free when you are done.

 

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand WHY you are doing what you are, but it does not help the rest of us who are playing the game correctly.

 

My final question to you, is would this WJTB sit on your monitor forever? If not, when did you plan on releasing it? Why?

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Yes, Fledermaus, We've heard of your antics on the east coast. They do not seems to be well received amongst your fellow Washingtonians.

I will admit to holding a WJTB a few weeks to get what I think is an appropriate contest entry. Then the Jeep move onward. One I sent to my brother in Seattle. It seems to be in a cache called Mount Wilson.

Jeeps are meant to move!

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Except for the fact that you need the White Jeep to enter the contest, I'm not sure Fledermaus doesn't actually have a decent idea. If he holds the Jeep and puts some sort of code (or something similar) in the cache for finders to use to contact him for the travel bug number to claim the WJTB find, at least he's making a white jeep available for those hunting one just for the icon. Granted, he shouldn't have to do that and that's not what Jeep had in mind. However, if the jeep is physically put in accessible caches chances are it will soon just disappear into somebody's pocket and, in all probability, it will be permanently out of circulation entirely.

 

As evidence, how many yellow jeeps do you see in caches these days?

 

What's better - a virtual jeep find or no jeep find at all?

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i just shipped mine overseas where they dont complain about them or hoard them...they are just so dadgum happy to see one they want everyone to see it...so far the two i sent overseas were warmly welcomed and the more i pick up the more will go overseas. at least they pick up miles that way and do not get stalled in someones personal collection. though i think i would probably keep the Dennis WJTB...well no i wouldnt i would like to log it for stupid reasons like it is my name...

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i just shipped mine overseas where they dont complain about them or hoard them...they are just so dadgum happy to see one they want everyone to see it...so far the two i sent overseas were warmly welcomed and the more i pick up the more will go overseas. at least they pick up miles that way and do not get stalled in someones personal collection.

What you've done is just as bad as hoarding, make no mistake about it. You have effectively lessened the possibility of finding a jeep for those people who are eligible to enter the contest. Like I said previously, wait until November 1st to send it overseas. After that, who cares -- but in the meantime, keep the jeeps in the areas where those that find them are able to enter the contest. That's what they are for, afterall. If you don't want to place one you've found in a cache yourself, then by all means send it to someone else to do so. I'm sure many people would volunteer to do it for you. You could always check their history to see if they've kept the jeeps moving in the past if you wanted, but please, keep them in the US, at least until the contest is over.

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I know where you can find 3 white jeeps and a yellow jeep. Check out this cache: Box of Stuff in the Woods. It started off with one of each, but subsequent finders have each added another. Hoarding really hasn't been an issue here and besides who really cares enough to whine about hoarders instead of enjoying the great outdoors?

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i just shipped mine overseas where they dont complain about them or hoard them...they are just so dadgum happy to see one they want everyone to see it...so far the two i sent overseas were warmly welcomed and the more i pick up the more will go overseas. at least they pick up miles that way and do not get stalled in someones personal collection. though i think i would probably keep the Dennis WJTB...well no i wouldnt i would like to log it for stupid reasons like it is my name...

You've added to the problem since nowhere outside the US 48 can enter the photo contest. You could have at least waited until the contest ended on 11/1.

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i just shipped mine overseas where they dont complain about them or hoard them...they are just so dadgum happy to see one they want everyone to see it...so far the two i sent overseas were warmly welcomed and the more i pick up the more will go overseas.  at least they pick up miles that way and do not get stalled in someones personal collection.  though i think i would probably keep the Dennis WJTB...well no i wouldnt i would like to log it for stupid reasons like it is my name...

You've added to the problem since nowhere outside the US 48 can enter the photo contest. You could have at least waited until the contest ended on 11/1.

I'm agreeing with AG on this one if not a few other points. The contest is for the lower 48. Sending it oversees, where it has no value before 11/1 is pointless and selfish. I know this sounds harsh but jeez man, think about it. :lol: You could have waited until after 11/1 and still be a hero/nice guy, over there.

 

For me, I rec'd 3 WJTB's and was asked to place 2 about an hour and half north of here. I did that. I was told to keep one for myself. I made the photo (blew it) but I placed it at an event. I grabbed another and photo (correctly this time) and then placed it. I looked for another and found it, 50 miles from here. I got it and will be placing the August photo this weekend. I'll place it sometime next week and hope I can find another for September. I think that was the intention of the contest.

 

Bang away!

 

:huh:

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HORDING? It's time to go back to school!

 

HOARD:

Noun - a stock or store, esp. if hidden away; a treasure.

Verb Transitive - to store secretly.

Verb Intransitive - to lay up or store.

 

Take note of the words "Hidden" and "Secretly".

 

For those that have a WJTB and don't share with others:

 

SHARE:

Noun - part allotted; portion; unit of ownership in public company entitling one to share in profits.

Verb Transitive - to give or allot a share; to enjoy with others; to apportion.

Verb Intransitive - to take a share; to partake; to participate.

 

Take note of the words "Public Ownership" and "Participate".

 

WJTBs and/or YJTBs:

 

1. It's sitting on my monitor.

2. I share it with others.

3. It will be available at local events.

4. It won't disappear into a collection.

5. It won't fall into a black hole.

6. It's not going overseas.

7. They are rare in my area.

8. Wal-Marts in my area don't have them.

9. Pay $9.99 online and buy a new one.

 

IMHO:

 

If I place it into a seldom visited cache, it will just sit there for days, weeks or months at a time, with no one will picking it up and using it. Where it sits, until someone picks it up for proper use, seems to be the key issue. If I set it "Free", it will probably disappear, just like the others around here. That's my judgement call based on my experience.

 

THE FACTS:

 

There have been at least 10 or more of the WJTBs distributed in this area and I can account for less than 3 at this time. This also happened with the YJTBs as well. That will not happen to this one, if I have any say about it. I claim no ownership, but I will see to it that it is used by those that need it for the contest. After the contest is over, it will becomes a regular TB and will be set free for some uncaring cacher to put it into his/her collection.

 

Will the first innocent geocacher please step forward and cast the first georock?

Edited by Fledermaus
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I say we strip all WJTB hoarders of their icon. :lol:

;) You forgot "Tar & Feathers", "Walking The Plank", "The Iron Maiden", The Rack" and "Nailed To A Cross". Oh, I almost forgot the geocachers' equivilent to "The Inquisition" called "Forums".

 

:huh: BTW, it's not "Hording", it's spelled "Hoarding"!

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Yes, Fledermaus, We've heard of your antics on the east coast.  They do not seems to be well received amongst your fellow Washingtonians. 

I will admit to holding a WJTB a few weeks to get what I think is an appropriate contest entry.  Then the Jeep move onward.  One I sent to my brother in Seattle.  It seems to be in a cache called Mount Wilson. 

Jeeps are meant to move!

:lol: What you know about where I live and others in my area could be placed into a "pico-cache"!

;) High high is your "High-Horse" and is it on a carousel?

 

:huh: OOOPPPSSS! I used an old fashion inference and you are probably too young to understand it!

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Except for the fact that you need the White Jeep to enter the contest, I'm not sure Fledermaus doesn't actually have a decent idea. If he holds the Jeep and puts some sort of code (or something similar) in the cache for finders to use to contact him for the travel bug number to claim the WJTB find, at least he's making a white jeep available for those hunting one just for the icon. Granted, he shouldn't have to do that and that's not what Jeep had in mind. However, if the jeep is physically put in accessible caches chances are it will soon just disappear into somebody's pocket and, in all probability, it will be permanently out of circulation entirely.

 

As evidence, how many yellow jeeps do you see in caches these days?

 

What's better - a virtual jeep find or no jeep find at all?

You answered your own question with your first statement. You need the physical Jeep to enter the contest. OK, sure, Jeep said you can enter even if you didn't find the Jeep in the cache... but HOW? WHAT do you take a picture of? Do you honestly think the people voting for the pictures are going to choose a photo of a GPSr and an ammo can to win the contest?? :D:D

 

But, hey, if someone is willing to give out Jeep tracking numbers so I can log 'em.. SURE!! Send 'em my way! I've got a White Jeep sitting next to my computer too. Only difference is, mine doesn't have a Jeep tag 'cause Wal-Mart doesn't include them for $1.97. But heck... If I got a Jeep and a tracking number, why can't I just take a picture of my Jeep and say it's WJTB "Whoever the tracking number belongs to?" :rolleyes::blink::P

 

I've read through all these posts.. .written a couple myself. Here's what I'm getting out of it. No matter what the rules are someone is ALWAYS going to break them. How do we stop that? Don't have the contest at all. That's the only way. Do we want that? Maybe some of us (the ones wanting to send all the Jeeps to Russia pop to mind) do, but I'm guessing the majority of us like the extra challenge and fun involved.

 

All we can do is ask that people act their age and play fair. If you find a Jeep in a cache.. HURRAY! GOOD FOR YOU! Take your picture and send it on it's way so somebody else gets a chance. Yeah, you can keep it and lessen the competition for the photo prizes.. but is it REALLY a competition if you're denying anyone else the right to enter?? Not in my eyes.

 

As for people taking the law into their own hands and holding the bugs to keep them from being held???? Uhhhh.... :blink: Just let it go. It's not yours. It belongs to Jeep. Yeah, sure, Jeep didn't ask for them back, but they asked us to help them move. It's not moving if it's sitting on your desk.

 

"But I want it to stay in my area so locals can use it." Yeah, don't we all... heck, for being such a big town, there are no accessible Jeeps in the area. They're all in people's hands (except for that one in the Unavailable cache... but that's already been discussed). THey get bounced back and forth from event to event. I've not had the opportunity to make it to one of these events. But everybody that goes to one picks up and drops up to 9 Jeeps. But they remain in the event cache for weeks after the event is over ... until the next one rolls around and they mysteriously make the drive to another event without setting tire in a physical cache. Jeep dispursed the Jeeps the best they could. They tried to start them out in different areas... I've been told the cache density of an area dictated the number of Jeeps sent to that location. BUT Jeep did not specify they were to stay in that area. Travel bugs will travel. I picked up my first YJTB a few months ago and dispite the fact there were no others in the area (IN CACHES) I took it with me on a trip to Utah and left it out there. That little bugger's moved more out there than it did in this area, that's for sure. Still rolling (got an email a couple days ago) too. If Jeep wanted them to stay put, they'd have given them state names or something indicating where they belonged.

 

Let 'em do their thing. If they get stolen, it won't be the first TB to turn up missing will it. But at least they disappeared doing what TBs are supposed to do... TRAVEL. The main thing to remember here is we don't own the Jeeps so it's not up to US to make the rules. Jeep laid out the rules. If we all follow them to the best of our ability, we set an example for the ones who don't. And maybe they'll see how much fun we're having catching and releasing our Jeeps and decide to join in next time instead of hoarding one Jeep all year.

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IMHO:

 

If I place it into a seldom visited cache, it will just sit there for days, weeks or months at a time, with no one will picking it up and using it. Where it sits, until someone picks it up for proper use, seems to be the key issue. If I set it "Free", it will probably disappear, just like the others around here. That's my judgement call based on my experience.

 

THE FACTS:

 

There have been at least 10 or more of the WJTBs distributed in this area and I can account for less than 3 at this time. This also happened with the YJTBs as well. That will not happen to this one, if I have any say about it. I claim no ownership, but I will see to it that it is used by those that need it for the contest. After the contest is over, it will becomes a regular TB and will be set free for some uncaring cacher to put it into his/her collection.

 

Will the first innocent geocacher please step forward and cast the first georock?

Toss .....

 

I'm innocent. I have had two White Jeeps. The first I picked-up on business while in the US, brought it back to Canada, brought it to an event, sent it to another event -- it is away from me with anther cacher and I assume it will go to more events or into a cache.

 

The second Jeep is in my hands (since last night). It is going into a cache.

 

Why? Because the company -- JEEP, bought the rights to a Travel Bug. They paid for the toy, they paid for the tag, they set the rules, they own the JEEP.

 

We can talk of this until we are blue in the face. These are Travel Bugs -- plain and simple. I hear there's some sort of contest attached to finding these -- so what? You can enter a few dozen contests every day of the week. I'm sure there's some sort of way to enter this contest by writing to JEEP. I can't enter the contest (Canada) -- so my Jeep is just going to do this CRAZY thing -- it's going from cache to cache (event caches, CITO caches, multi caches, puzzle caches, Traditional Caches)

 

My next drop (within 14-21 days) will be into either a traditional or multi.

 

So... I toss the rock. I am innocent of any activity that disrespects the wishes of the owner of this Travel Bug -- if someone else is a thief, I chose not to be a thief.

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