Sba Etiquette...

[+Old Bill]

Hey everyone,

 

OK, so I'm paperless, and now that I've done a few PQ's and such, I've found a few around my area that have gotten no attention at all. One hasn't been touched by the owner since early March, another hasn't been found since February. And the owners haven't been on since much longer before that. I've deleted them out, and told GSAK to not bring them back in, but I feel it would be a public service if they were to be archived. Can anyone bring me up to speed about how to do this? Namely, what is the protocol for doing so? Who do I contact, and how do I approach it? Seems a waste to have the PQ's pull them up when they obviously aren't being found.....

 

TIA!

[+Prfctly Mad]

The easiest way is to Log your visit to the cache as "Needs to be Archived" This has worked for me whenever needed

[+caderoux]

Unless you are 100% sure the cache is gone (people who have found the cache before have reported the site bulldozed), you really do need to visit the site.

 

Then email the owner or enter a note to see if they plan on maintaining it.

 

Then enter an SBA.

 

This happened on a local cache. Most of the prolific finders found it. I visited and it was gone - I could even see how it was hidden. I emailed the owner but got no response. I asked a finder at an event and they confirmed the hiding method. I saw that another local cacher logged it as a find and replaced the cache container. I went out a couple days later and the cache was gone again. It was in a mini-muggle-intensive area and I knew the cache would not be maintainable. Since I had never had an email back from the owner (I offered to send a photo of the attachment area so he'd know it needed maintenance), I entered an SBA. Given the history, an approver archived it almost immediately, but I have seen cases where they'll archive a cache after also giving the owner a chance to check their email.

 

Having said all this, IF you honestly think the cache should be archived for some reason, I think there is not problem with entering an SBA at any time.

[+robert]

CO Admin said it better.

Edited August 4, 2005 by robert

[+CO Admin]

SBA the cache. This brings it to the attention of the local reviewer. They will try to contact the owner and if all else fails archive the cache. This is why the SBA is there. Its a way to get the reviewer involved. There is no stigma in posting a needs to be archived notice.

 

It makes my job easier when people do this instead of allowing a cache that needs help to just sit there.

[+wimseyguy]

I think the OP needs to clarify his question. Are there multiple DNF's piling up on these caches, or are they just not being looked for? Have you looked for them yourself? Have you posted a DNF? There is no harm or shame in DNF's although some players still refuse for reasons I cannot understand to post them.

 

I think it's bad form to punch the SBA unless you have posted a DNF yourself, and there are a few others before yours. Don't just sit at your desk and play cache police. A polite email to the cache owner along the lines "hey I was thinking about looking for your XYZ cache this weekend, but noticed there are several DNF's posted. IS everything OK with this one?"

[+Rick618]

I've hit the SBA twice so far. In both cases there were multiple DNF's including atleast one of mine and the cache owner had not been on the site in atleast a month. Even if it is archived, there is a simple way to have it unarchived that is listed on the page. It's not right to jump the gun just for a dnf, but in both these cases the cache was obviously missing. Just another part of the game.

[+Old Bill]

I think the OP needs to clarify his question. Are there multiple DNF's piling up on these caches, or are they just not being looked for? Have you looked for them yourself? Have you posted a DNF? There is no harm or shame in DNF's although some players still refuse for reasons I cannot understand to post them.

 

I think it's bad form to punch the SBA unless you have posted a DNF yourself, and there are a few others before yours. Don't just sit at your desk and play cache police. A polite email to the cache owner along the lines "hey I was thinking about looking for your XYZ cache this weekend, but noticed there are several DNF's posted. IS everything OK with this one?"

The ones I was keyed in on have multiple DNFs since earlier this year.

 

The one is this one, and another is this.

A third is here.

Maybe I'll post an inquisitive note and/or email the owner to check these. I don't want to be overly "police-y" about this, but with the logs, it seems to be a waste of time to visit them just so I can add a SBA to them....

 

Thanks for the advice....

Edited August 4, 2005 by Old Bill

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Hey everyone,

 

OK, so I'm paperless, and now that I've done a few PQ's and such, I've found a few around my area that have gotten no attention at all.  One hasn't been touched by the owner since early March, another hasn't been found since February.  And the owners haven't been on since much longer before that.  I've deleted them out, and told GSAK to not bring them back in, but I feel it would be a public service if they were to be archived.  Can anyone bring me up to speed about how to do this?  Namely, what is the protocol for doing so?  Who do I contact, and how do I approach it?  Seems a waste to have the PQ's pull them up when they obviously aren't being found.....

 

TIA!

Old Bill,

 

We check on our caches on a regular basis, but do not post notes most of the time. The only time we do, is if there was a note or DNF or someone E-mails us about one of our caches. Then we respond after we have checked it out with the results - as in - "Yup, still there - fixed up the cache - put in new goodies - replaced container" - or whatever the issue was. (We have been pretty lucky & not had to post much since there have not been to many problems).

 

So, what I am saying is, the owner might be regularly checking on his cache without any note stating the fact - not a terrible thing....

 

The other item that it sounds like might be bothering you is...."One hasn't been found since February". This is not a bad thing either. If it is out in the boonies (remote areas do not get a find sometimes for a year or more), a 4X4 or quad trail (not everyone has 4x4's or quads), a hike (in 100+ heat?), a multi (they do not get as many people looking for them), a puzzle (same reason as a multi), or just not many cachers having enough time in that area to go find a cache (there is a life other than caching). In other words - there are many reasons for a cache not to be "found" for a long time period. It doesn't mean that the cache is bad or gone - just 'not found'. So - go find it to verify that it is still there & viable. Then if you do not find it or do find it & it is trashed, let the owner know so he can go check on 'His cache' before you go SBAing anything.

 

Whatever you do - give the owner a chance -

 

Just because you see no action on the site might just mean that they are checking in without logging in...it is easy to do. Or they are just watching their E-mail & when there is a problem - they then go fix it.

 

We have learned patience, live & let live, have fun, go find caches & benchmarks and most of all don't worry about others. We have never had to use the SBA, we have sent a couple of E-mails or made a note on the cache page when the cache was trashed or in need of repair (several times we have used some baggies or other items to help a cache along). The cache was then taken care of or archived by the owner.

 

I would think it would feel really terrible if a cache were to be archived by someone else, without getting any note or E-mail first, so we could go check it out ourselves & do whatever needs to be done ourselves. After all is said & done...it is our cache.

 

Shirley of 2oldfarts

[+Salvelinus]

Interesting...I recently was very successful at doing this. Check out the history of This cache.

 

The owners are nice people and seem to have other interests so they just needed an extra personal "push" to finally remind them to get this cache taken care of. The approver rightly gave them plenty of time to deal with it too. I think in the end it went very well. Now I have to find time to get my cache in there like I said I was going to do.

 

Salvelinus

[+Salvelinus]

I would think it would feel really terrible if a cache were to be archived by someone else, without getting any note or E-mail first, so we could go check it out ourselves & do whatever needs to be done ourselves. After all is said & done...it is our cache.

 

Shirley of 2oldfarts

 

You should be happy to know that situation can never happen. Only the owner or an approver can archive caches. Approvers will ALWAYS give the owner a chance to fix the problem by posting a note on the cache page.

 

Salvelinus

Edited August 4, 2005 by Salvelinus

[+Glenn]

I would think it would feel really terrible if a cache were to be archived by someone else, without getting any note or E-mail first, so we could go check it out ourselves & do whatever needs to be done ourselves. After all is said & done...it is our cache.

 

Shirley of 2oldfarts

 

You should be happy to know that situation can never happen. Only the owner or an approver can archive caches. Approvers will ALWAYS give the owner a chance to fix the problem by posting a note on the cache page.

 

Salvelinus

I'd be careful when using words like ALWAYS. I have a cache that was archived and I wasn't given a chance to fix the problem. The first "note" I even saw from an approver was the archived log.

[+Allanon]

...There is no stigma in posting a needs to be archived notice...

No, but it sure pisses off some cache owners...even though there have been multiple DNFs on the cache in question.

 

My opinion, if there are mutiple DNFs and a cache owner doesn't check the cache and verify it's OK, post a SBA.

 

If it's there and just in poor condition, post a "Found" and note the condition of the cache that way. Cache's in poor condition are not necessarily SBA material for that reason only.

 

Again, just my opinion.

[+Old Bill]

The other item that it sounds like might be bothering you is...."One hasn't been found since February". This is not a bad thing either. If it is out in the boonies (remote areas do not get a find sometimes for a year or more), a 4X4 or quad trail (not everyone has 4x4's or quads), a hike (in 100+ heat?), a multi (they do not get as many people looking for them), a puzzle (same reason as a multi),

Hello Shirley,

 

No, it's not that it's bothering me, rather, I don't believe that these caches are being looked after even with multiple DNF's. They are not out of town, so it's not a big deal to get to them.

 

I do appreciate the "live and let live" philosophy, but it seems silly to let these caches go like this and keep having cachers looking for them. Sorry if this is sounding like a rant. Just think that it needs attention, that's all. I don't lay awake at night mulling this over, so I won't be all that concerned if nothing gets done. After all, I know to not go looking for them....

 

FWIW, I did send a reviewer a quick private note about the 3 in question. Didn't demand anything other than he may want to look at them, and thanked him for his time.

 

Thanks for all the advice though!

[+JohnnyVegas]

Unless some trys to find a cache, they should not submit a SBA.

I check mine from time to time, but I do not log that I have been there.

If one of my caches has a DNF loged by some one that has only had a few hides I am not going to check on it, chances are it is still there.

I had one person log a DNF lost world on one of mine they had no finds (they said they looked in every place a cache could be) and to check the cache would have reqiuired a 3 hour hike. Well some one found a week later. I guess the person that posted the DNF did not look in the tree stump .

 

lots of DNFs do not always indicate a problem

Some caches are just very hard to find.

Edited August 4, 2005 by JohnnyVegas

[+budd-rdc]

Here's an etiquette for myself for an SBA situation, which agrees mostly with what others have posted:

 

1. No armchair SBA'ing - visit and try to find the cache first.

2. Post a DNF/Note/e-mail of the search if the cache is likely missing.

3. If the cache is in state of disrepair, see #4 first

4. Check the owner's profile for recent activities

5. Reread the guidelines to see if the cache is in compliance

 

I've found a good number of caches (usually dislocated) after previous visitors have posted DNFs, so I'm hesistant on posting SBAs.

 

Has anyone tried putting a cache on a watchlist AND ignoring it? If that works, then that'd be the way to avoid Pocket Query annoyance, but at the same time keep an eye on its activities.

[+Renegade Knight]

I've had the SBA used on my caches because they didn't like my cache, or they thought it should of never been approved in the first place. I deleted the SBA log. As far as I know the reviewer realized the SBA log was worthless and left well enough alone. I do need the occasional poke because there are things more important than getting out to check a cache. Actually most things are more important and so it can take some time.

 

Unless you have personally sought the cache you should generally not use the SBA log. There are exceptions. However those exceptions start with trying to contact the owner.

[+Miragee]

I was surprised to see several logs on a cache recently where people said the cache "should be archived." Well, the log had gotten wet was all. The cache was there. So we just put in a new dry log and the cache is good to go.

[n0wae]

How long does it take for a SBA request to be acted on? I'm guessing the approver e-mails the cache owner and waits x amount of time before taking action. Can a SBA request fall in a crack? The reason I'm asking is I'm watching a cache with the first of 5 DNFs posted in Feb and the first SBA in May and another SBA in July... The cache is still listed. Just wondering.

[+mintaka]

Just throwing my 2 cents in.

 

The owner of the first cache Old Bill mentioned last logged on in April. This could be understandable with summer and vacations, etc. Maybe they just don't cache in the summertime. I would give this one a little more time.

 

The second ones owner hasn't checked in since March 2004. I would say they are definately MIA. An SBA might be warrented.

 

The thirds owner was last here in November 2004. Maybe not an SBA yet but watch it for a few more months.

 

Around where I am, we had a cacher come back after missing for a year.

 

Cache on!

[+Old Bill]

Bump...

 

Just a follow up. One of the local reviewers responded to a gentle email by temporarily disabling 2 of the caches, and the owner (at the reviewer's prompting...) archived the 3rd. He even sent me a quick reply telling me that it had been taken care of. While I won't make a habit out of shooting off emails to reviewers everytime I find a neglected cache, for the ones that are more obvious, it wouldn't hurt to do so. (Just be friendly and easy going about it....)

 

At least it'll save some cachers time and effort, goal achieved.

Edited August 9, 2005 by Old Bill

[+Ed & Julie]

OKay...new question:

 

How about posting a SBA note for a cache that has been disabled for ages (months) by active cachers.

 

The owners of these caches disabled the caches (most of which I have either found in the past or DNF'ed), then have never replaced or repaired.

 

SBA?

 

Chico Bug Motel

14 Mile House

It Ain't So Biggs!

CannonBall Transporter

 

There are a ton of others in my area that have been disabled for 4-6 weeks.

Edited August 9, 2005 by The Badge & the Butterfly

[+Team Neos]

OKay...new question:

How about posting a SBA note for a cache that has been disabled for ages (months) by active cachers.

...

There are a ton of others in my area that have been disabled for 4-6 weeks.

Probably could use a new topic being started then....

 

but, there are plenty of reasons to have a cache archived for a few weeks or even a season.

 

constuction in the area causing loss of access

some kind of danger that only applies to one season (ice makes it TOO slippery, there is are killer bees in the area, its hunting season)

illegal activities being investigated by police (who ask you to disable your cache for a while).

the owner had to go overseas in the service and couldn't find someone to watch the catch, but will be back

[+Cache Liberation Front]

When you log an SBA, who sees the note? Everyone? Just admins and the owner?