Can I Claim It?

[+onetrapper]

Being fairly new to the game I am not sure what’s legal & what’s not. Can you claim a find even if you did not actually find it?

I’ll explain, my sister was visiting her son in California. I called her (not knowing she was in Cal.) to see if she had heard about geocaching & she had not. I explained how it works & she thought it would be fun.

She did not have a GPSr but we thought we would try to find one over the phone. To make a long story short she & her family found the “Dewalt” Cache located in Oceanside Cal. I directed her to the cache by using the logs, the clue & the gallery from the cache page to guide her to where it was hidden. We probably got pretty lucky to accomplish this but we really did.

I would like to know if I can claim the find even though I did not actually find it.

 

Note: My sister now has a GPSr & an account & has 11 or 12 finds, she is now hooked on geocaching.

[+Team Perks]

Since nobody's really keeping score, I suppose it's up to you and the cache owner to decide. Personally, I wouldn't log a find for that cache...and I think the majority of other cachers here wouldn't feel comfortable logging a find either. But it's ultimately your decision.

[+Cardinal Red]

Ditto what Team Perks said.

 

You appear to value the opinion of Forum participants.

 

What was your wildest optimistic estimate of the percentage of posters who would endorse this query?

[+AuntieWeasel]

The rule of thumb is, did you sign the logbook?

 

Now, my very first find was frozen solid inside a log and I couldn't sign the logbook. And, it being my first and all, you BETTER BELIEVE I counted it. I worked hard for that smiley! But I slunk back to it in Spring and signed once I heard the logbook was the sine qua non of the find.

 

Forget that one, though. You gotta get a GPS and join in!

[+welch]

Personally, I wouldn't log a find for that cache...

I wouldn't either.

[+White Hare]

In my opinion you should mark it as a find. I don’t think there is much difference in what you did, than there is in geocacher’s that go out in groups. There is usually one member that spots the cache first, yet all members log it as a find. I have wondered if these people went solo would they be able to find it. You were a big part of your group. I do think however you are supposed to sign the log. I did find one cache that I marked as a find without signing the log. If I would have tried to pick up the cache, I would have been spotted by non cachers and gave away it's location.

Edited July 21, 2005 by White Hare

[+briansnat]

Can you claim a find even if you did not actually find it?

 

Just curious. Why would you want to?

[+reveritt]

In my opinion you should mark it as a find. I don’t think there is much difference in what you did, than there is in geocacher’s that go out in groups. There is usually one member that spots the cache first, yet all members log it as a find. ...

Yes, but you must actually be there and sign the log.

[+onetrapper]

Ditto what Team Perks said.

 

You appear to value the opinion of Forum participants.

 

What was your wildest optimistic estimate of the percentage of posters who would endorse this query?

I do value the opinions of the forum participants. This is the reason I asked the question here.

I have a feeling the percentage will pretty low.

 

I will not claim the cache, but we did have fun finding it this way.

 

Thanks to all that replied.

[+onetrapper]

Can you claim a find even if you did not actually find it?

 

Just curious. Why would you want to?

I didn't know if I could, not that I would. She wouldn't have found it with out a GPSr or me directing her to it. I just thought this was an unusual way to find a cache that I really didn't find.

[+briansnat]

Can you claim a find even if you did not actually find it?

 

Just curious. Why would you want to?

I didn't know if I could, not that I would. She wouldn't have found it with out a GPSr or me directing her to it. I just thought this was an unusual way to find a cache that I really didn't find.

You could claim anything as a find. There are countless instances of people claiming a find and not finding the cache. I even recall one fellow who claimed a find because he "knew where the cache is". .

 

You have to remember that its about the hunt, not the numbers.

[+Team Neos]

Well, even if you don't claim it as a find, you could put a note on the cache page to commemorate your participation. (That is what I would do).

[+Miragee]

In my opinion you should mark it as a find. I don’t think there is much difference in what you did, than there is in geocacher’s that go out in groups. There is usually one member that spots the cache first, yet all members log it as a find. I have wondered if these people went solo would they be able to find it. You were a big part of your group. I do think however you are supposed to sign the log. I did find one cache that I marked as a find without signing the log. If I would have tried to pick up the cache, I would have been spotted by non cachers and gave away it's location.

In that case, you really should have come back another time, or used seriously-stealthy techniques to grab the cache, sign the log book, and return the cache without being seen.

 

Many in the Forums will say if you didn't sign the log, you really can't claim the find.

[+Pork King]

... I did find one cache that I marked as a find without signing the log. If I would have tried to pick up the cache, I would have been spotted by non cachers and gave away it's location.

What if it was like a cache I used to have out, with SEVEN false caches near the real one? Each falsie had things like "A cache this is not", etc written in them.

[+Glenn]

...Can you claim a find even if you did not actually find it?...

Logic dictates that if you didn't find something then you haven't found it.

[+Glenn]

You could claim anything as a find. There are countless instances of people claiming a find and not finding the cache.  I even recall  one fellow  who claimed a find because he "knew where the cache is".  .

 

You have to  remember that its about the hunt, not the numbers.

So how long do you think it will be before we see a log like this "I looked this cache up on google earth. The area doesn't look interesting at all so I don't want waste my time by actually going there. I'm loging it as found because I could see where it is from the satelite map at google earth."

[+TeamAO]

Uh, I don't know if proper etiquette addresses that, but if you can pull off something like that over the phone, you deserve something.

 

Here's a cookie.

[+Team Red Oak]

I'm impressed that you could do that over the phone. I would definately add a note telling how you participated in the finding of the cache.

 

If you and your sister plan to cache together, sign as a team and mark it as a team find, also keep an individual account so you can mark the caches you found solo.

[+globalgirl]

(seems to me) Two good points here: Yup, much like a group "find", as well as team logging (of finds that often only 1/part of the team has gone out for.)

 

In the former, g-knows many folks come in on but the periphery/tail end, yet all claim the "find". Shoot, I've even been on the outskirts - never even touch the cache nor the logbook - whilst the logbook is passed 'round and others happily sign for me. This is done all the time. And yes, oft times its arguable whether all would indeed have individually "found" the joy had they been solo.

 

Then there's the teams. Again, I have no problem with it. But here again, often half/part of the team is the only one who even was on site, yet both/all essentially are claiming a "found".

 

Likewise (in yet another variation of such) my dd and I have deliberately set up a separate account - just for solving puzzle caches long-distance. While we're geographically miles apart, nonetheless, it is I (or she) who actually solves the puzzle and the other who skips out to grab the box (often the easiest part of "finding" the cache) and signs the log... as our team puzzle cache pseudonym.

 

Point izzz... the best part about this game is that each can play it any which way they like. After all, there's no prizes for most caches found - so it's always perplexed me why some seem hell-bent on judging how others play the game.

[+TeamAO]

Point izzz... the best part about this game is that each can play it any which way they like. After all, there's no prizes for most caches found - so it's always perplexed me why some seem hell-bent on judging how others play the game.

Well said.

[+Thot]

It does sound very much like a group find. Almost always only one person in the group is actually the first to see the cache but everyone in the group claims it.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

My own opinion is that if it had been me and if it were my sister doing the find via cell phone guidance, and if I had an account at geocaching.com that is a team account where my sister is a member of that team, then yes, I would claim this as a find for myself. On the other hand, if my only account at geocaching.com were a single-person-member personal account, then I would likely not count it.

 

Getting gack to your situation, well, even it your account is a single-person account, you could always consider that you sister was a temporary part of your "team", and, gee, in this case, each of you certainly did work effectively and efficiently together to find this cache! That fact must not be neglected! Especially so long as she signed the logbook to leave some real-world evidence of the find, I would not get too worried about which interpretation was chosen -- whether you claimed it as a find or not. After all, as a number of other posters have pointed out, many cachers hunt in teams, and even in large groups, often, especially at geocaching events (picnics, etc.) when hunting local caches, and they regularly "share" finds made only by one member of the group. No problem!

[+Kai Team]

Per the geocaching.com guidelines, it's not a find if you don't sign the log. The geocaching.com listing guidelines state:

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

So a cache owner should delete any online "found it" log if there is no corresponding signature in the paper log, since it would appear to be a bogus or counterfeit log.

 

The guidelines don't say anything about how you find a cache. So the "group hunt" and "team" arguments aren't the same thing, as long as each member of a group, and at least one member of a team, signs the log.

 

Sign the log, it's a find. Don't sign the log, it's not a find. The only exception is where the log is unsignable for some reason, and the cache owner grants permission to someone who found the cache to log a find.

[+Lafrog]

No Way! If you're not there, don't count it. This sport/ game was ment to bring "individuals" to a specific place. Be it for a nice view or whatever, but they ALL should personally sign the log. It's the way of the originators. I would really hate to see this become "find by internet" or phone. I spend many, many hours designing special containers just to excite finders. Bottom line-- if you can't or don't want to actually find it--don't log it as such.