Los Angeles Times 07/17/05 Page 1

[+yourBuddyBill]

In the B section (California) was an article on left side of page 1 about a day with the Bomb Squad. The article was by Steve Lopez steve.lopez@latimes.com

 

The bomb was near a park near Vista del Mar Blvd near LAX airport. In the last column of the article, mentions are made that the bomb squad had come to the same park 2 years earlier to remove

'had answered a pipe bomb call and found a harmless cannister made to resemble a bomb and containing clues to an Internet treasure hunt game played with Global Positioning System devices.'

 

The item this time was

a salami-sized cannister with a fuse.

After the object was carefully handled by the bomb squad, there was some paper with the letters 'GPS'.

 

Steve Lopez ends the article as follows:

 

I don't know what kind of morons would play games with devices made to look like bombs, but I left the scene thinking the same thing the bomb squad often thinks.  Could have been worse.

 

Now, Mr. Lopez did not refer to geocaching or navicache or any of those directly. Perhaps his information is about an evil cousin. Does anyone know of any alternative Internet game involving GPS where the participants are ENCOURAGED to make their caches bomb-like? Them I might call morons.

 

There is probably an opportunity here for some PR with the Times and the LA bomb squad.

 

Oh, and a lesson to remember to put that GEOCACHE stencil on the outside of our caches ... and leave the fuses off.

[+TeamAO]

Ok, I've seen enough threads started from "bomb-squad finds cache", "geocaching related to bombing in london". Start a thread when you find an article that we haven't see so many times before in different cities under the same circumstances.

[+robert]

Oh, and a lesson to remember to put that GEOCACHE stencil on the outside of our caches ... and leave the fuses off.

Definitely great advice. Helps potentially solve a lot of problems if the cache is labeled properly.

[+Team Neos]

Actually, the article has some good information that we can use to understand the phenomena of panic that place our caches in jeopardy. It is a good insight into what goes on from the bomb squad point-of-view, and may help us learn how to place caches that aren't so readily seen as 'suspicious'. I found the entire article at:

Good Day for Bomb Squad is No Blast

 

The reporter sets the stage by relating the variety of calls the squad gets, and only at the end comments on the appearance of the container in question. I would like to see a photo of the actual container to see what a 'salami sized container with a fuse' looks like--but after reading the entire article, I can better understand why the container would be cause for concern. The article even says that the bomb squad veteran felt that the container would be another geocache, but had to follow SOP anyway. Sounds reasonable to me!

Unfortunately, the report chose to end his story with some questionable commentary and the use of a "loaded" word (meaning a word with a very negative connotation).

[+yourBuddyBill]

Start a thread when you find an article that we haven't see so many times before in different cities under the same circumstances.

I used the Search feature, but I did not see the 07/17/05 LA Times article mentioned in a prior post. I apologize that I was unable to find another mention, thought I had a FTF, and thereby offended you TeamAlphaOmega.

[+robert]

Start a thread when you find an article that we haven't see so many times before in different cities under the same circumstances.

I used the Search feature, but I did not see the 07/17/05 LA Times article mentioned in a prior post. I apologize that I was unable to find another mention, thought I had a FTF, and thereby offended you TeamAlphaOmega.

Don't sweat it, I appreciate the story being posted. As more and more of these situations come up it's important that we are all aware of them so we can use the information to make our own caches more "muggle friendly".

 

Thanks for posting it!

[+sept1c_tank]

...Steve Lopez ends the article as follows:

 

I don't know what kind of morons would play games with devices made to look like bombs, but I left the scene thinking the same thing the bomb squad often thinks.  Could have been worse.

 

Now, Mr. Lopez did not refer to geocaching or navicache or any of those directly. Perhaps his information is about an evil cousin. Does anyone know of any alternative Internet game involving GPS where the participants are ENCOURAGED to make their caches bomb-like? Them I might call morons.

Even if Mr. Lopez knows of a game that encourages disruptive behavior, his editorial comment at the end of an otherwise good article is unprofessional. I'm surprised the editors did not cut it.

[Yankees Win!]

Didn't Richard Reid have "geocache" stenciled on his sneakers?

 

No, I suppose he didn't.

 

Getting back on topic, I strongly support the editor's decision to include Mr. Lopez's "editorial comment." I see no reason to make geocaches more "muggle friendly." The problem is people who intentionally create caches that appear threatening. Lopez is right; those people are morons.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Yankees Win!

[+Miragee]

...Steve Lopez ends the article as follows:

 

I don't know what kind of morons would play games with devices made to look like bombs, but I left the scene thinking the same thing the bomb squad often thinks.  Could have been worse.

 

Now, Mr. Lopez did not refer to geocaching or navicache or any of those directly. Perhaps his information is about an evil cousin. Does anyone know of any alternative Internet game involving GPS where the participants are ENCOURAGED to make their caches bomb-like? Them I might call morons.

Even if Mr. Lopez knows of a game that encourages disruptive behavior, his editorial comment at the end of an otherwise good article is unprofessional. I'm surprised the editors did not cut it.

I think his comment was directed at people who would hide something that looks like a bomb, complete with fuse:

a salami-sized cannister with a fuse.

 

If I ever found a Geocache "disguised" like that, I would think the hider was a moron as well . . .

[+EScout]

I read this article in the paper today. First, I doubt it had a fuse. Probably a string or wire for hanging it. We do not know what the container is-- could be a tennis ball container... Two of my containers are metal cylinder shaped with wires hanging in trees.

 

Regarding the editorial content, everyone knows he is an editorial writer in a newspaper with very specific biased views. For example they take no ads for g uns and do not publish the fishing reports anymore (daily landing figures). My guess is that they would favor outlawing caching since they favor laws controling other aspects of peoples lives and hobbies.

[Cape Cod Cacher]

Ok, I've seen enough threads started from "bomb-squad finds cache", "geocaching related to bombing in london".

AO, you've been here 2 weeks, settle down, you ain't seen nothin' yet... This is the most repetative area in the forums, give it a couple years...

[+Amtraker]

Well the cache mentioned here was mine:

 

GCJ3YE Vista Del Mar Park - Pen Exchange

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...51-0dbf85f14287

 

This park is along the beach about 1/2 mile from LAX in an area that used to be expensive housing tracts. When LAX expanded and they took knocked down the houses and all that's left is this tiny park that looks down on the Pacific Ocean.

 

Lots of people come here to eat lunch and/or watch planes take off over their heads. This park is not well known and the point of the cache was mainly to point out this way cool little park to watch planes and the ocean from.

 

The cache was a small piece (1-1/4" diameter by 6") of PVC pipe to hold pencils. It was located inside a fence pole that was cut off at ground level. The cache was about 1" below the ground (held up by a stick I put down the deep hole) and had fishing line on it to pull it out. The top of the cache had sand glued to it to resemble the other cut off fence poles filled with sand.

 

Recently I went to the park to check up on the cache. The fishing line was missing so I attached a twist tie I found in the park to the top as a temporary fix. This is the "fuse" mentioned in the article.

 

The cache was originally clearly marked with GEOCACHE and geocaching.com, etc. but over time it had worn off some. I was going to re-write the geocache notices soon but I was too slow. Still, I think they would have blown it up even with GEOCACHE written on it. That's what the Bomb Squad has said before in other newpaper articles.

 

One problem was that occassionally the fence pole would fill up with water and the cache would float up out of the hole. I periodically went to the park to remove the water but I've been busy lately and haven't done that for a while. I would guess this happened as a muggle would be highly unlikely to see it otherwise.

 

The biggest problem was when someone put the cache down the wrong hole and it could not be retrieved. That one is still at the bottom of that fence post hole.

 

Sorry to have put geocaching in a bad light. I've found many PVC pipe caches but I won't be placing anymore...

[+sept1c_tank]

Sorry for your bad luck, Amtracker.

 

It's sad that we live in a society so posessed with terror and paranoia.

[+Team Perks]

I occasionally read Steve Lopez's articles in the LA Times; while I've enjoyed some of his past columns, his snide attitude is typical of his writing style and (in my opinion at least) should be taken as such.

 

Although I have never found Amtraker's cache, I have been to that park many times. It's a great spot to watch the airplanes and enjoy the sea breeze, and to quickly escape from the city.

 

I'd find it hard to believe that someone would go through the trouble of building a pipe bomb just to detonate it at an under-utilized park in an otherwise completely vacant area. But it's asking far too much to expect that the public use common sense.

[ju66l3r]

I'd find it hard to believe that someone would go through the trouble of building a pipe bomb just to detonate it at an under-utilized park in an otherwise completely vacant area. But it's asking far too much to expect that the public use common sense.

Most bombers don't build their own bombs. A chemist/bomb "expert" builds the bombs and then hands it off to the suicider. A nearby park at the airport would be a very easy access place that the delivery could occur.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to see something resembling a pipe bomb regardless of where they find it and to report it to authorities. Amtracker has the right idea, just don't hide PVC "bomb-like" geocaches.

[+BillsBayou]

Dear Bomb Squad,

 

I'm building small canisters in my basement which I will be hiding all around the Los Angeles area. I was wondering if you could send me a list of bomb pictures? I'd like to make these containers look like something you'd never recognize as a bomb.

 

I'll be writing "THIS IS NOT A BOMB. DON'T BOTHER THE BOMB SQUAD." on my canisters. That way you'll know it's me.

 

Sincerely,

Not A Bomber,

Bill.

 

P.S. Some of my friends will be coming by to check out my hidden canisters from time to time. So they'll know what time it is when they come by, I've placed watches in these canisters. So, it's okay to ignore the ticking ones.

[+Renegade Knight]

Given that geocachers in general don't make bombs, how in the hell would we know how to make something look like a bomb? I make caches, others come along and assume bomb, then tell the world "It was made to look like a bomb" Um.. yeah, and when I get to rid shotgun with the bomb squad maybe I'll know what real bombs look like.

 

Recently at the Buffalo Airport someone left behind a package of Star Wars Toys. Some kids going to be disappointed. Lets try the same spin on that. "Airport Authorities shut down the main terminal after a package of star wars toys crafted to look like a bomb was discovered. After the package was found to be harmless a press pundit said "What kind of moron buys toys that can be confused as a bomb?"

 

Star Wars Toys, Shoes, Personal Effects, Caches. These don't look like bombs. They look like what they are. Bombs may or may not look like these things. We need to keep reporting suspicious things, but we don't need to blame people for our own false alarms.

 

If anyone has them, send me links to other false alarms. I want to collect stories about all the stupid things that get reported just to illustrate the point that it’s not the things, it’s the price of vigilance.

[Jeremy]

If anyone has them, send me links to other false alarms. I want to collect stories about all the stupid things that get reported just to illustrate the point that it’s not the things, it’s the price of vigilance.

I have a google alert for "bomb turned out to be" but it doesn't catch a lot of them. If you have better keywords, let me know.

 

I picked up the Star Wars toy one, a gift wrapped package one, and at least 1 or 2 a week, but I'm sure there are more.

 

The unique thing about bomb scares is you can pretty much pick up anything, say it is a bomb, and someone will take you seriously. I don't recommend testing this theory, however.

 

So yeah. Don't make things look like bombs people! Whatever that means.

[+caderoux]

Apparently the dancing Elmo looks like a bomb. We brought one to my nephew through airport security last Christmas, and he got the anal probe and explosive residue wipe down.

 

The package wasn't wrapped, but he was still attached into his cardboard backing.

 

Still, that did not deter the fine TSA staffers.

 

I do wonder how many actual bombs have ever been caught by these reports before going off.

[ImpalaBob]

First let me state that the Price of Vigilence is sometimes your life! Being Ex-Army and Ex-Nam training in booby traps .... It was the normal looking item that you touched or moved that took your life.

 

We are all taking a leap of faith when we open any closed container if we stop and think about it!

 

I've bought clear PVC tubing for my pond, and opening a clear tupperware tub seems pretty safe. So ..... adding a clear panel to any container so the contents can be seen seems like a prudent idea if you are concerned about the bomb squad being called. Proper labeling also helps as well as painting over the ammo info on ammo boxes used as cache containers.

 

The older you are the more rediculous all this seems. Gee ... The lawn mower I used as a kid had no stickers to tell me to keep my fingers/toes out from under it, and it did not shut off when I took my hand off the handle ..... How did I ever survive? ImpalaBob

[+BillsBayou]

We are all taking a leap of faith when we open any closed container if we stop and think about it!

Let's just say that when I found the cache, a can marked "Mixed Nuts", I had a good idea what was going to happen when I opened it.

[+HereFishyFishy]

In this day and time we should all be very aware of our surroundings. If a muggler finds one of our caches and it gets blown up, as has happend many times before, we should all try to learn from it and not make the same mistakes again that made it appear as a bomb for whatever reason. There is no reason to get angry and start name calling by either side. For those of you who don't have an understanding of basic electronic devices and explosives, you would not believe how easy simple small bombs would be to make. I learned at 11 years old and purely by chance how to make a small explosive device that could cause minor injury and I wasn't even trying to make one. With the information available today from the internet, the threat is greater than ever. If the bomb squad blows up one of my caches because it's suspicious then I say good for them. If they were not to blow a bomb that looked like a geocache and someone got hurt I wonder how many opinions on this subject would change. I believe the old saying here is it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Jeremy]

So ..... adding a clear panel to any container so the contents can be seen seems like a prudent idea if you are concerned about the bomb squad being called.

Not true. Transparent containers have also been detonated by bomb squads. No physical container is safe.

 

Edited to add: However, a clear container makes it less likely that the bomb squad will be called in the first place. Also, sadly, many caches wrapped in trash bags seem to go untouched - some in plain sight. It is the uniqueness of the containers that draw so much attention. No one would think twice about a McDonalds bag. And sadly, a rare few would pick it up and toss it in the garbage either.

Edited July 18, 2005 by Jeremy

[ju66l3r]

Yes, Jeremy, but I believe his point (and a fair one) is that the person who calls 911 concerning their find may be less likely to do so and more willing to consider it harmless if he/she can see inside.

 

EDIT: Darn you, you edited.

Edited July 18, 2005 by ju66l3r