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Tb Hotel Trade Rules


WH

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Just for the heck of it, I did an informal survey of 80 TB hotels.

 

57 of them had no restrictive rules.

 

23 of them had at least a take one/leave one rule in the least.

 

I looked for any TB hotels with a "always leave (obnoxiously large number) of bugs in the cache, but didn't find any on this short survey.

 

That's not a bad ratio of non-prison TB hotels, really. :rolleyes:

 

Glad they are not in the majority.

Edited by Sparrowhawk
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Travel Bug Prison-Oklahoma Branch

 

Personally I dont care if all the bugs are taken at once or not.

I just have to ask, would you care if a local cacher went and retrieved all the bugs as soon as you put them in there, all the time, every time? I'm sure there's a lot of people who would do that, seeing as it's just a prison, as you call it.

I really would not care. Its just a game to me. If I called this a Travel Bug Resort with a lake view, no one would get upset but the location, concept and design would all be the same.

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Travel Bug Prison-Oklahoma Branch

 

Personally I dont care if all the bugs are taken at once or not.

I just have to ask, would you care if a local cacher went and retrieved all the bugs as soon as you put them in there, all the time, every time? I'm sure there's a lot of people who would do that, seeing as it's just a prison, as you call it.

I really would not care. Its just a game to me. If I called this a Travel Bug Resort with a lake view, no one would get upset but the location, concept and design would all be the same.

Wrong again.

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Loved the get of of jail card tb, hope you don't mind but I'm going to have to copy it as there is a tb hotel a little ways from me that has that stupid leave one take one rule.

I don't mind a bit -- it would be great to have an army of these things out there :P .

 

I released it today (today seemed fitting for it: it's Bastille Day, they day the French revolutionaries stormed the Bastille prison and let the inmates go).

As the owner of a Travel Bug Hotel that "works the way it is suppose to"...no rules, but bugs come in and bugs go out in a timely manner, I hope that people use these "Get Out of Free" cards judiciously to rescue lots of dormant bugs. But just going to a TB Hotel and cleaning out the hotel because it has a lot of bugs doesn't make much sense either.

 

TB Hotels can be a win/win situation. If a cache gets a lot of visitors, it is a good place to drop bugs. Lots of bugs can mean that a cache gets a lot of visitors.

 

Clean out the bugs means fewer visitors and fewer visitors mean fewer bugs. I know that I set up my hotel with the intent of moving bugs (and servicing them so people know what their missions are. But I do appreciate the information about PRISONS. If it becomes a PRISON, I'll shut it down.

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Here's what I did. We have a bug hotel "MSP Bugport" near the Mpls/St. Paul airport. I picked one up at another cache, and dropped it in this one, without taking one. I couldn't help the other one along.

 

So in the log, I said I dropped a bug, but was going to delay picking one up until I was able to help it.

 

So, I'm following the rule of drop one/take one, but I'm just putting a break between the two actions.

 

I want to help the Travel Bugs get where they need to go. If I happen to be out and about in a different city, and find some TB's that need to get back to Minnesota, I'll take them, even if I don't have one to drop off. Of course, I'll check our local bug hotels to see if any need to go where I'm going first, so I might have some to bring as well.

 

My plan is to keep bugs moving, and never have them in my possession for longer than 4 or 5 days.

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Caches don't the travel bug rules make. Travel bug owners make the rules for their own travel bugs. Others just come along and think they might have better ideas, no matter what the bug owner requested. Any cache is a good cache for a travel bug. Hotel/motel/hostel or not. If the cache has rules and you don't like them, leave nothing, take nothing or see what the bug's goal is and help it along anyway. I don't think they'll hunt you down for it. :laughing:

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when I find a travel bug I can help on its mission - I help it.

 

If a hotel owner wishes to maintain a certain level of occupancy I then why not stock the cache with Unactivated tags and let cachers know that they can bring something to make a TB with?

 

That stated, I cache with at least one set of unactivated tags for just such a reason.

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As a cache owner that decided to list our traditional cache as a travel bug hotel because of its proximity to both bridges onto Cape Cod, I've found that the cache has been well utilized with only a few problems over the two year period.

 

I think a primary consideration is whether or not a cache is a traditional cache/travel bug hotel, or if it is strictly a travel bug hotel.

 

In our case, the cache is a traditional/hotel so regardless of the travel bug status, the well stocked cache offers a trading ability for cachers that find it for the first time.

 

A cache that is strictly listed as a travel bug hotel will generally contain a log book, a writing instrument, and travel bugs. Without a travel bug in residence, the travel bug hotel is simply an empty box in the woods with a notebook in it that is bound to disappoint the next finder.

 

A number of travel bug hotels have popped up in the surrounding area, and this has posed a problem for us because we've actually had these cache owner's show up at our cache as previous finders and remove ALL of the travel bugs without trade and then relocate the travel bugs to their own travel bug hotel.

 

Where I listed the cache as a travel bug hotel, I feel that I have some obligation to maintain a stocked status and when a previous finder decides to stop by and retrieve three or four travel bugs without trade, I feel that the overall result is negative... for us, and for anyone that seeks the advertised travel bug hotel with hopes of picking up a travel bug.

 

The common principal in geocaching and suggestion on all of the Finder's Notes is that if you take something, then leave something. To show up at someone else's cache and clean out all of the travel bugs without trade leaves the cache owner with a deficit because whether it is a traditional/hotel or strictly hotel, the cache container is a lot lighter for the next finder.

 

There's a more distal travel bug hotel near the Route 24/Route 495 whose owner is less interested in keeping the travel bug hotel stocked and it has a reputation of being constantly empty. Awful lot of logs from people who made the road trip to find the cache with hopes of retrieving a travel bug, only to find an ammo can with a notebook in it.

 

I doubt that there will ever be agreement on what's ethical or unethical when it comes to travel bugs, but I personally believe in the take something, leave something axiom.

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Considering that Jeremy Irish himself nixed any sort of "keep x number of TBs in cache" rule, then we are free to respect a travel bug's mission... TO TRAVEL.

 

There's travel bugs, and then there are trade items. 2 different things.

 

I don't mind if either of my TB hotels become empty sometimes... I respect the overall rule and need of travel bugs over my own need to have bugs in my cache. I figure a new bug will arrive and hang out eventually. Kinda reminds me of a full bird feeder with no birds on it... hey, one will fly in soon enough. :laughing:

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Kinda reminds me of a full bird feeder with no birds on it... hey, one will fly in soon enough.  :laughing:

How many birds do you get when the bird feeder is empty?

 

:laughing:

Hey no food in caches... and that includes birdseed! :-)

 

That could attract bugs and then... errr... waitaminnit... :unsure::laughing:

Edited by Sparrowhawk
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How many birds do you get when the bird feeder is empty?

 

:laughing:

If the bird gets a smiley and his find count goes up by one, exactly the same number of birds as you'd get with a full bird feeder.

 

I love travel bugs, but I've never gone to a cache -- even a TB hotel -- with the exclusive purpose of snagging a TB. If one is there, that's great. If none are there, I happily sign the log and take my find. If the hotel is conveniently located, rule free and it looks like TB's are moving through it smartly, I'll make a mental note that it's a good place to drop a bug in a pinch (though I always prefer leaving bugs in a regular cache that I thought was especially nice).

 

If more than one is there, I'm likely to take more than one. Especially if I've done my homework and I know a TB hasn't been moved in a while. If you can only take one TB, then a bunch of TB's in a box are essentially competing against each other for attention. An uninteresting bug sinks to the bottom and stays there, even if the bug is awfully special to little Billy Geocacher.

 

I never use the "b" word, not being a general fan of banning and rules, but hearing that people are running around poaching other TB hotels to stock their own TB hotels makes me like the concept even less.

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I'm all for TB hotels (but only the ones placed near airports, interstates, various other travel routes, etc), but am against the TB trade rules. Wanna pick up a TB? Fine do it. pick up 2? 3? 4? If you can help 'em along, go for it, cache owner be darned.

What the pig said.

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I wanna start a thread called "Find Those Prison-like TB Hotels - that have 'keep x number of TBs in cache' rule...'"

 

... but I am afraid of starting a duplicate thread.

 

The point would be to find 'em, mention 'em in that thread, target 'em. post POLITE notes in their logs, and see if we can gently pursuade cache owners to see the light. Report in the thread if or if not, and go on to the next TB "prison".

 

Wonder if it would be a good thread to start?

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Back in January a bug of mine of was dropped in this TB prison, . I left a note on the cache page asking the next cacher to move me bug along with or without a bug to trade, as the bug was mine and not the property of the cache owner. The cache owner deleted my log and told me that my bug "was not in the cache"! End of bug....... obviously if you're going to tell TB prison owners that you don't like the concept of TB prisons, it's a mistake to do it while one of your bugs is in their cache. :(

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There should be no restrictions in our opinion -

 

Bugs want to move - their owners want them to move, other cachers want to move them, other cachers want to pick them up- so why not move them?

 

TB hotels should be for TBs not the other way around.

 

As long as a cacher can move a bug along they should be able to do so -

 

If we set up a TB Hotel , and we may do so shortly, there will be no restrictions-

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Check out the headline size on this one... sheesh.

 

3 bug rule.

 

Self-described prison on this one.

 

Four bug rule on this one.

 

Oh this one is even worse. Check out the text: "Please leave at least 5 bugs, coins etc. in the hotel at all times, if you don't have a bug to trade, just write down a number, log the travel bug out and then back into the cache." Arrrggh.

 

Not a lucky number. Here's the text on this one: "At all times I want this cache to have no fewer than seven (7) travel bugs/coins."

 

This is a "Mansion"? The culprit proclaims: "THIS CACHE HAS A 10 TRAVEL BUG MINIMIUM. THERE SHOULD ALWAYS BE AT LEAST 10 TRAVEL BUGS IN THE CACHE AT ALL TIMES. Place as many travel bugs in the cache as you want to, but only take as many as you place or more if there are more than 10 travel bugs in the cache. "

 

I think I hit the maximum with that last one... I don't think I can find anything worse than that (impolite word)!

Edited by Sparrowhawk
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This is a "Mansion"? The culprit proclaims: "THIS CACHE HAS A 10 TRAVEL BUG MINIMIUM. THERE SHOULD ALWAYS BE AT LEAST 10 TRAVEL BUGS IN THE CACHE AT ALL TIMES. Place as many travel bugs in the cache as you want to, but only take as many as you place or more if there are more than 10 travel bugs in the cache. "

 

I think I hit the maximum with that last one... I don't think I can find anything worse than that (impolite word)!

But just for the record, that mansion has 450+ enties and over 900 TBs have passed through it in two years...and its in Utah, not exactly a highly concentrated population. Doesn't seem like much of a prison to me, although I didn't go through each log to check out DETAILS.

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This is a "Mansion"?  The culprit proclaims:  "THIS CACHE HAS A 10 TRAVEL BUG MINIMIUM. THERE SHOULD ALWAYS BE AT LEAST 10 TRAVEL BUGS IN THE CACHE AT ALL TIMES.  Place as many travel bugs in the cache as you want to, but only take as many as you place or more if there are more than 10 travel bugs in the cache. "

 

I think I hit the maximum with that last one...  I don't think I can find anything worse than that (impolite word)!

But just for the record, that mansion has 450+ enties and over 900 TBs have passed through it in two years...and its in Utah, not exactly a highly concentrated population. Doesn't seem like much of a prison to me, although I didn't go through each log to check out DETAILS.

Then why does it need a ten bug minimum? You think that helps?

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This is a "Mansion"?  The culprit proclaims:  "THIS CACHE HAS A 10 TRAVEL BUG MINIMIUM. THERE SHOULD ALWAYS BE AT LEAST 10 TRAVEL BUGS IN THE CACHE AT ALL TIMES.  Place as many travel bugs in the cache as you want to, but only take as many as you place or more if there are more than 10 travel bugs in the cache. "

 

I think I hit the maximum with that last one...  I don't think I can find anything worse than that (impolite word)!

But just for the record, that mansion has 450+ enties and over 900 TBs have passed through it in two years...and its in Utah, not exactly a highly concentrated population. Doesn't seem like much of a prison to me, although I didn't go through each log to check out DETAILS.

The three most recent visitors there didn't take anything because there were "only" seven bugs in the cache.

If one of those seven were mine, I'd certainly feel like it was imprisoned.

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This is a "Mansion"?  The culprit proclaims:  "THIS CACHE HAS A 10 TRAVEL BUG MINIMIUM. THERE SHOULD ALWAYS BE AT LEAST 10 TRAVEL BUGS IN THE CACHE AT ALL TIMES.  Place as many travel bugs in the cache as you want to, but only take as many as you place or more if there are more than 10 travel bugs in the cache. "

 

I think I hit the maximum with that last one...  I don't think I can find anything worse than that (impolite word)!

But just for the record, that mansion has 450+ enties and over 900 TBs have passed through it in two years...and its in Utah, not exactly a highly concentrated population. Doesn't seem like much of a prison to me, although I didn't go through each log to check out DETAILS.

The three most recent visitors there didn't take anything because there were "only" seven bugs in the cache.

If one of those seven were mine, I'd certainly feel like it was imprisoned.

Where's that Get Out Of Jail Free bug when you need it?

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Where's that Get Out Of Jail Free bug when you need it?

Sitting in a cache of mine waiting for either myself or the next finder to retrieve it.

I think my copy will be called "Slug Bug"

 

Now if I can just find an Elvis item to tie a tag to. It'd be fun to release a little 'Heartbreak'.

 

hmmm, 'stalag 13', Hanoi Hotel'

 

hmmmmmmmmmmm :D

Edited by BlueDeuce
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If Jeremy frows upon TB prison "rules", and the hotel owners are butting heads with the travel bug owners, then an easy solution would to have the cache approvers not approve any hotel with such rules imposed upon the travel bugs, and any hotels which are approved would be done so with a note not to add any rules. But wait, that would be making a new rule about not having any rules and we don't need anymore rules.... :D

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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But just for the record, that mansion has 450+ enties and over 900 TBs have passed through it in two years...and its in Utah, not exactly a highly concentrated population. Doesn't seem like much of a prison to me, although I didn't go through each log to check out DETAILS.

Then why does it need a ten bug minimum? You think that helps?

Yes, absolutely I think that helps. Just like "success begats success", "TB traffic begats TB traffic."

 

The person below you made a good point though. The last three people who visited the cache didn't take a TB because there were only seven. On the other hand, they knew the rules going in, so if they had really wanted to help a TB along, the would have brought a TB with them.

 

Interesting discussion don't you think? I really like the TB aspect of the game, so I've enjoyed seeing other people's perspectives.

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I had an really strange email this morning simply asking me: are you responsible for liberating the 7 bugs?

 

WHAT 7 bugs?

 

Hey, if there are 7 bugs to be liberated somewhere, and someone gave me a free plane ticket and some coords, I can go travel to liberate some bugs whereever-that-is, I guess.

It would be easier just to ask some local cacher to do that, though. :(

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The person below you made a good point though. The last three people who visited the cache didn't take a TB because there were only seven. On the other hand, they knew the rules going in, so if they had really wanted to help a TB along, the would have brought a TB with them.

Lets assume thats true, according to the minimum level they still couldn't have helped a TB out, even if they had brought one in! 7+1+1+1 = ten (finally)

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Yes, absolutely I think that helps. Just like "success begats success", "TB traffic begats TB traffic."

I think we differ on what or who we are helping.

Actually I think we are in agreement in the most important area: We both want travel bugs to travel.

 

We just disagree with what method works better. I think we have to agree that the "ten bug motel" is moving bugs.

 

I think that it is moving bugs because it is attracting "bug moving cachers" to it because they know that there will be bugs looking to move.

 

You feel that more bugs would move if there wasn't a minimum number set.

 

To that I think we will have to agree to disagree.

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What would I do? The same thing you need to do! SHARE & PLAY FAIR! If you take a TB then you need to leave a TB. Be an adult.

I drop off every travel bug that I pick up in another cache. Therefore, for every travel bug that I pick up, I am dropping off another one either in that same cache or another cache. Overall that is a one-to-one exchange of travel bugs. A few days ago I picked up 20 travel bugs and geocoins in one cache, and dropped off one travel bug. However, over the next few weeks I'll make 20 travel bug drops so this will be an overall even exchange.

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

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I doubt that there will ever be agreement on what's ethical or unethical when it comes to travel bugs, but I personally believe in the take something, leave something axiom.

 

There is extensive widepsread agreement already and only a very very few people who cannot grasp a simple straightforward concept; the Travel Bug, along with the geocache, is one of the basic gamepieces in geocaching. A Travel Bug is owned by a geocacher and there are only a few people who simply cannot acknowledge this extremely simple and straightforward concept. A Travel Bug isn't a trade item, it isn't a reward for finding a cache, it isn't an incentive to visit a cache, ethics are not involved, there is no question in regards to how they should be handled, a Travel Bug should be handled as the owner intends.

 

Geocachers that cannot grasp and promote this simple concept are the problem. Setting up a cache that instructs geocachers to handle a Travel Bug in a fashion other than that intended by the owner is self-centered, rude and disrepectful of the Travel Bugs owner.

 

Explain why you feel that there is some type of ethical question here?

Do you not acknowledge that every travel Bug is the personal property of another geocacher?

Are you questioning the Travel Bug owner's right to determine how they would like their bug handled?

What possible reason do you have for holding up some axiom that questions a TB owner's right to decide how their TB is handled by other geocachers?

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I doubt that there will ever be agreement on what's ethical or unethical when it comes to travel bugs, but I personally believe in the take something, leave something axiom.

 

There is extensive widepsread agreement already and only a very very few people who cannot grasp a simple straightforward concept; the Travel Bug, along with the geocache, is one of the basic gamepieces in geocaching. A Travel Bug is owned by a geocacher and there are only a few people who simply cannot acknowledge this extremely simple and straightforward concept. A Travel Bug isn't a trade item, it isn't a reward for finding a cache, it isn't an incentive to visit a cache, ethics are not involved, there is no question in regards to how they should be handled, a Travel Bug should be handled as the owner intends.

 

Geocachers that cannot grasp and promote this simple concept are the problem. Setting up a cache that instructs geocachers to handle a Travel Bug in a fashion other than that intended by the owner is self-centered, rude and disrepectful of the Travel Bugs owner.

 

Explain why you feel that there is some type of ethical question here?

Do you not acknowledge that every travel Bug is the personal property of another geocacher?

Are you questioning the Travel Bug owner's right to determine how they would like their bug handled?

What possible reason do you have for holding up some axiom that questions a TB owner's right to decide how their TB is handled by other geocachers?

While I agree with what your saying wavector, I don't think you're likely to get a reply. This thread is TWO YEARS OLD, and you can not expect someone who was posting in it back in 2005 to just pop up and give a response :D:o .

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While I agree with what your saying wavector

 

The main thing is that new geocachers get to see that there is widepsread agreement on the proper handling of Travel Bugs. I will repeat the advice even if the thread is 5 years old. It gives established cachers an opportunity to check in and express agreement, this strengthens the argument even more for new cachers. Another valuable side effect is that those people who cannot grasp that TB's are one of the basic gamepieces get an opportunity to re-assess their cache pages and remove restrictions.

 

A Travel Bug isn't a trade item, it isn't a reward for finding a cache, it isn't an incentive to visit a cache, there is no question in regards to how they should be handled, a Travel Bug should be handled as the owner intends.

 

Two years old, I actually never noticed that! :lol:

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I happen to like the idea of TB hotels - that makes it easy to find TB's in an area you don't travel to too often, as well as giving me a place that I can dump my TB's if I need to - I know there is a big enough container to hold them.

 

Prison rules? I say no... Let em' move!

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Imagine a cache with a 4.5 Star terrain rating that specifically wants only Geocoins and declares you MUST make GC for GC trades only. There have only been a total of 16 visits since publication in April 2006.

 

A quote from the cache page:

"This cache contained five geocoins when placed. One can be taken as a FTF. The rest are a test: can you resist taking the coins? The cache is setup so that if you take one, you must leave one."

 

Currently holds 3 GC's (yaay, someone with integrity did a rescue against the "RULES") that have been there since 16March2007.

 

Would you want YOUR traveler here? I sure wouldn't. I can't help but question the integrity of the individual who would create a trap to snag unwary travelers.

 

It's one thing to have a TB hotel. It's quite another to make up your own rules for other peoples property.

 

I'm 100% with WH on this.

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