Help Us Go Paperless, Please!

[+Team Wolf - Indy]

Hi there! We are kinda new to geocaching but we are hooked! We are at the stage where we will do a few then have to run home to print off some more. We are ready to go paperless and have a few questions. We are using a hand held Etrex (a camo one). I want to buy a cheap Palm pilot to run pocket queries ect. Here are my questions:

 

1. Will a Palm V be adequate (memory, ram ect) I've seen these for cheap on Ebay. If this isnt a good unit what type of Palm based device would you recommend? (we dont care if its older, just want it to work well for geocaching apps)

 

2. What applications are the best to use (or what will I need) to load our device with all the caches near us?

 

3. Will we be able to log our finds via the Palm Device and upload our logs straight to the website?

 

4. Is there a tutorial/ walk-thru for Noobs like me to get all set up for paperless caching?

 

Sorry if any of these questions are totally stupid, Im just so excited to get this set up!! Thanks for any help!!

[+CondorTrax]

I'm no expert but this is what I have and have done:

1. I have a very old IBM WorkPad with 2MB RAM. This is very similar to very old Palm Pilots. It has Palm OS 3.3.

2. Loaded on the unit is Cachemate software available for $8 as a registered user. This is the Palm App that lest you view your cache database

3. I've been using GSAK (also as a download). As the name implies, it's a full featured Geoaching utility. GSAK has various export functions one of which is the ability to convert your waypoints into cachemate PDB. The very cool thing is once you create an export to cachemate, GSAk actually preapres and creates the pdb and then prompts you to do a hot-synch on the Palm device. You'll need to tinker and play to get the settings the way you like them. Overall it's fairly painless.

4. Once on the palm, you can then review your cache files and modify them accordingly on the plam. I don't believe you can upload your changes back to GSAK so it may be a one-way communication.

5. If you're not already a Premium Member, I advise to go for it. This'll let you run Pocket Queries so you can receive your caches over email and download them as GSX file format . You'll be up-to-date on the caches you've selected.

6. When you update the geocaching.com logs etc, you can then download the GSX file format to GSAK and then export to your palm.

7. You may be able to find a tutorial by looking through the geoache.com pages and/or searching under "paperless". IIRC, there's a good tutorial under the Geocacher U section that goes into great detail and provides lots of hint/tips/software selection.

 

Anyway....... that's how I'm doing it. Works great for me. Good luck and enjoy.

Edited July 11, 2005 by CondorTrax

[+Semper Questio]

Yes, The Palm V will do what you want. I used to use a Palm IIIxe till it finally died (I had used it a long time). I now use a Tungsten E.

 

I use GSAK ($20 one time), CacheMate ($8 one time) and GC Premium Member ($30/yr) PQ's. Makes it all very easy and both GSAK and CacheMate have tutorials on their sites and elsewhere on the web - just Google for them and for 'paperless caching'. I'm sure someone else will eb able to provide specific links.

 

The latest version of GSAK does have a method that lets you move your log info from CacheMate into GSAK and from there to your logs somehow but I don't use it (I do VERY abbreviated notes in the field than enter the full notes when I log) so I can't tell you exactly how it works. For more on that check out the GSAK thread and the GSAK software and help info on the site.

 

None of this is rocket science and you will be able to pick it up pretty easily. Just take it 1 step at a time.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Semper Questio

[+PDOP's]

Geocaching Sans Paper - the Art of Paperless Caching

[+Sputnik 57]

I like Cybret's paperless caching tutorial, but he uses spinner and plucker to get info onto his PDA. That, in my humble opinion, is like teaching someone to sew by saying, "First, let's learn how to spin thread and make cloth." It works, but it sure is the hard way.

 

I second (or third or fourth or whatever) GSAK on your computer, CacheMate on your Palm (I used a Palm m505 until recently upgrading to Treo 650), and Pcket Queries.

 

Have PQ's sent to you via e-mail (a G-mail account is great for this--lots of free storage). Have GSAK go get the PQ's by a click of a button. Slice and dice through the cache info to find those caches you may want to find. Press a button in GSAK to generate a Cachemate file. Sync the palm to your computer, open cachemate on your palm, and you are set.

 

I'm looking for a site that has the details spelled out like the Geocacher U site, but with GSAK and Cachemate. If I find one, I'll link it here.

 

Edit: Florida Caching--Paperless Article.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Sputnik 57

[+hoovman]

Another tutorial:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~teamcoychev/paperless.htm

[+IVxIV]

1. Will a Palm V be adequate (memory, ram ect) I've seen these for cheap on Ebay. If this isnt a good unit what type of Palm based device would you recommend? (we dont care if its older, just want it to work well for geocaching apps)

 

The V would work, but with only 2mb memory it might get full pretty quick and frustrate you. For just a couple $'s more, see if you can find a Palm Vx instead. That one has 8mb memory and a slightly faster processor. In my opinion the Palm Vx is hands down the BEST "humble-basic Palm PDA" for Geocaching use. When new it was the ultimate executive toy and VERY expensive. Not any longer You should be able to find a Vx pretty cheap, and they're nice & slim, fit nicely into a pocket or pack.

[+Marcie/Eric]

Get a Vx, or a similar Palm with 8MB.

[+RheS]

I use a Palm IIIxe (often available on eBay for fairly little), and Cetus GPS software, rather than Cachemate which does seem to be very popular. The IIIxe has 8Mb of memory, and uses AAA batteries, which means I don't have to worry about recharging (there are always spare batteries in the glove box). And it speaks serial, so it will talk to almost any GPSr with a serial cable.

 

The latest beta version of Cetus is capable of downloading the cache descriptions, hints, etc... and will do a sort to determine nearest. I would guess that many people could work from a single 500-cache pocket query of caches closest to home. Since I travel for work all over the cache-filled Chicago metro, I have several PQs downloaded for different areas, plus one for just over the border into Wisconsin, and space left in memory for other things like appointments and human people's addresses.

 

I tried Cachemate, and didn't like the interface as much... I'll probably try it again one of these days, to get logging support. But mostly now, I log from memory, or from scrawled notes on the back of area maps.

 

On the PC side, I use GSAK, plus a set of scripts of my own devising. GSAK isn't as good as some people claim here (and it is terribly slow when dealing with large databases), but it does most of the things that you want... and the only alternative is to write your own, or wait for somebody else (me, maybe) to do so.

 

It's hard to resist buying Microsoft Streets and Trips, which sells at Costco or the like for about $20, and prints lovely maps with little red dots where the unfound caches are (once you have the list of unfound caches, in either GPX or LOC, and feed them through GPSbabel (or GSAK, which uses GPSbabel), to convert them to the tabbed format that MS&T reads). That's the only kind of paper I bother to print, except for puzzle caches. If I were someplace less urban, I might want some kind of topo map thingy, but in this area what I need are roads, and MS&T does fine for that.

 

Hope that helps. Enjoy!

Edited July 12, 2005 by RheS

[+embra]

I tried Cachemate, and didn't like the interface as much... I'll probably try it again one of these days, to get logging support. But mostly now, I log from memory, or from scrawled notes on the back of area maps.

 

On the PC side, I use GSAK, plus a set of scripts of my own devising. GSAK isn't as good as some people claim here (and it is terribly slow when dealing with large databases), but it does most of the things that you want... and the only alternative is to write your own, or wait for somebody else (me, maybe) to do so.

I, too, didn't care all that much for Cachemate the first time I looked at it. However, I've concluded it's the easiest way to get data back and forth from the Palm.

 

Out of curiousity on the GSAK speed thing: how large a database are you working with?

[+damel]

I use CacheMate and GSAK with a premium membership to gc.com. Its all fairly easy and straight forward. I tried to read the geocacher-u tutorial and even began trying to do what is says before I found CacheMate. I could not get things to work easily. I then found CacheMate while reading the forums. CacheMate is simple. Seems too simple at first, as embra pointed out. But after a couple of days playing with it you may just be hooked like us. You can get all your own logs/notes off of CacheMate and into GSAK. There is no automated way to get the logs onto the gc.com website but GSAK has a simple work around where the log in a GSAK window and the online log open at the same time, and you just paste your new info in. Its the closest I have found to total automation (and this seems to be more of a gc.com issue that there is no way of total automation). You can try both CacheMate and GSAK out before you buy them. GSAK will have no limitations (just a nag) and CacheMate will just allow a small number of caches like 10 when not registered but this can easily give you an idea of how well everything works.

 

As for a PDA I use my old m505, but I have heard many people using much less and having no problems. I like that the m505 has a SD slot. Many of the new models also have this feature so you may want to look into some of the cheaper models of these for this reason.

[+wornout]

Since you admit to being a newbie, stick with premium membership at GC.com, cachemate, and GSAK. If you don't like the interface or mode of operation after you log say one or two thousand caches, then do like suggested and write your own. Until then, you can't go wrong with what I listed and many have seconded. These programs just keep getting better.

[+birddog14]

as the others said -

 

premium membership, Cachemate, and GSAK

[+Marcie/Eric]

as the others said -

 

premium membership, Cachemate, and GSAK

Bump ^^^^^

 

[+Team Wolf - Indy]

Thanks to everyone!!

 

All of your responses have been WONDERFUL! I feel like I have a much better grasp of the whole paperless thing! Thank you ALL very much!

 

Happy Caching!!

[ubievol]

sputnik_57 how do you like the treo 650?

[+Sputnik 57]

Slightly off topic, but I really love it. My one complaint was that Palm limited the phone volume, so it was really hard to hear in a noisy setting. A third party app called Volume Care by developer Jeff Gibson solved that problem.

 

I normally use Cachemate, but it is nice to be able to use the web anywhere there is cell service to see the cache listing as needed. The d/l speed in my area (Houston) is about 150kbs using the built in Blazer web browser, so I prefer to go to the WAP site to speed downloads.

 

I really need to get a hard case for it when caching.

[ubievol]

sputnik_57 thanks very much for the info. i've wanted a 650 for a while and may go ahead and pull the trigger on one. i need to figure out whether to stick with verizon or switch carriers but i'm getting way off topic.

 

back to the original post, one thing to consider is the ability to connect the PDA to the GPS. some palms are compatible, and some are not. i've read some conflicting posts on the topic and can't give the final word by any means, but if this is something you are interested in you might want to direct your palm choice accordingly.

[+RheS]

I tried Cachemate, and didn't like the interface as much... I'll probably try it again one of these days, to get logging support.  But mostly now, I log from memory, or from scrawled notes on the back of area maps.

 

On the PC side, I use GSAK, plus a set of scripts of my own devising.  GSAK isn't as good as some people claim here (and it is terribly slow when dealing with large databases), but it does most of the things that you want... and the only alternative is to write your own, or wait for somebody else (me, maybe) to do so.

 

I, too, didn't care all that much for Cachemate the first time I looked at it. However, I've concluded it's the easiest way to get data back and forth from the Palm.

 

Out of curiousity on the GSAK speed thing: how large a database are you working with?

 

((Sorry to take so long in replying... I've been away from the forums....))

 

First, in answer to your question, my large database is about 80,000 caches. This is NOT all the caches in the USA by any means... but it is a lot.

 

Second, since I made the above comment, I've been contacted by Clyde (the GSAK developer) to see if I'd be willing to beta-test some speed enhancements for large databases. I have been doing so, and I see much improvement. So it's clear that Clyde is aware that there are crazy people trying to handle larger databases than he originally designed for, and he's making improvements.

 

In particular, there's a substantial improvement in handling imports of many .GPX files from a single folder, which you might have if you (have premium status with GC.COM and) click on the download .GPX link on a bunch of individual caches you're interested in. This was one of the slowest things for me to do in GSAK, and I'd devised some scripts to work around the issue. But it seems to be fixed in the next release!

 

As for CacheMate, I'm sure I'll try it again... but I haven't felt up to it yet.

 

Palm choice: Older Palms have a serial port rather than USB. They will connect to just about anything. I think I'm going to be running my ancient Palm IIIxe forever. They're still widely available on eBay.

 

Hope that helps.