Designated "nice Swag" Caches?

July 9, 2005

Since so many people seem dissatisfied with the usual quality of trade items in caches, I was wondering how people would react to owners declaring their caches to be nice swag caches. They could stock them with nicer items and check up on them to make sure that the quality remains high, while the nice swag designation would let disillusioned finders who never trade anymore know that they might want to bring some good trading items to this one. I suppose this would work like theme caches or TB hotels, where the trading "rules" are described on the cache page and there isn't any actual enforcement. Is there any reason why someone would be upset about cache owners making this sort of declaration about their caches? Has anyone tried this?

11.3k · July 9, 2005

There is a cache here that I found a few months ago. The cache owner asked that the items follow a specific theme and have a value of about $5.00.

By the time I was looking at the logs, he had posted a note saying something like:

Well, that didn't last very long . . .

July 10, 2005

Since so many people seem dissatisfied with the usual quality of trade items in caches, I was wondering how people would react to owners declaring their caches to be nice swag caches. They could stock them with nicer items and check up on them to make sure that the quality remains high, while the nice swag designation would let disillusioned finders who never trade anymore know that they might want to bring some good trading items to this one. I suppose this would work like theme caches or TB hotels, where the trading "rules" are described on the cache page and there isn't any actual enforcement. Is there any reason why someone would be upset about cache owners making this sort of declaration about their caches? Has anyone tried this?

The problem with putting rules on the cache page is that lots of time folks seek a cache without looking at the cache page. As an example I have a couple hundred caches loaded in the GPS and when I am out and about if I have the time I will just go to the nearest cache. I use pocket queries to filter out the puzzle caches since often you have to have info from the cache page to do them. Normally if I am planning to cache I will look at the cache pages and plan which one's I want to hit, but not always.

So, at a minimum the rules would have to be in the cache as well.

But... I almost never read anything in the caches because it's just the normal GC.com page for muggles to find and log book. It would take an ammo can sized container with the inside of the lid containing the note with large letters before I would notice it.

I think if one wants to attempt this is would be wise to take a few precautions. First, make it a cache that is at least 1/4 mile from nearest possible parking. The further it is the better it eliminates most of the families with little kids who come with the toys they don't want anymore. Nothing against families with little kids and I know some do trade fairly, but a family with 4 kids all trading junk toys will pretty much turn a cache into a junk toy cache in a heartbeat.

Next, put a large note inside the cache with clear, polite trade expectations. Perhaps laminate it so it is stiff and can't be folded up.

Lastly, decide if you want to limit the number of visitors by making a puzzle cache. If you force the person to bring the cache page with them in order to find it there is a better chance they will come prepared for trading if they care to.

If after all that the contents still degrade give it up.

38.2k · July 10, 2005

Has anyone tried this?

I have a cache that started with one pretty nice item (It was a new Petzel headlamp). The "rule" was that each person would bring one "nice" item to trade. I even put the rules in a large laminated card inside the cache. It started out well, with things like a new Leatherman, a collectible doll and other neat stuff, including a Garmin GPS passing through. Last time I stopped by there was a used deck of cards inside .

July 10, 2005

We placed our first cache today and we are looking forward to placing more. We have 2 theme ones in mind. A take a quickfish, leave a quickfish type and a trade a handmade item type. The instructions for both will be on the cache page as well as very noticible inside the cache. Of coarse I do realize that people don't always listen/read and know it won't stay the way we want it to but we'll do our best anyway.

24.7k · July 10, 2005

They were doing that in 2002. It works as well is if you didn't make the request at all. Consider anything you put in the cache a gift.

5.7k · July 10, 2005

"Since so many people seem dissatisfied with the usual quality of trade items in caches..." Perhaps these folk ought to consider a new hobby/game. Do they have an Amateur Whiner's League?

July 10, 2005

"Since so many people seem dissatisfied with the usual quality of trade items in caches..." Perhaps these folk ought to consider a new hobby/game. Do they have an Amateur Whiner's League?

no, perhaps the people who don't understand "trade even, trade up, or don't trade" should consider a new hobby, like hanging out at Mc'Ds trading Happy Meal toys

July 10, 2005

This is a gripe that's been around since people started exchanging gifts.

The whine goes just the same. "I gave so and so a real nice present and this all I got in return. whine whine whine."

"We need to set some rules. I don't want to spend money on something nice and get junk." etc. etc.

For me I look at what ever I "give" in a cache or a present for some occasion it's just that a gift. My pleasure is thinking somebody got some pleasure out of my gift. (You can change gift to swag item if you like). If at some point I find something neat, I consider it a bonus.

If you want to leave something that has very little monatary value but could have a lot of desirability, leave something that you made. I leave a "Byron's Famous Stump Pin". It's has very little monatary value. It's made by me without spending a huge amount of time making them. I consider each and every one a gift from me to whom ever should find it. Key word "gift". I don't expect anything in return. As a result what I get in return money can't buy.

Byron

July 10, 2005

This is a gripe that's been around since people started exchanging gifts.
The whine goes just the same. "I gave so and so a real nice present and this all I got in return. whine whine whine."

"We need to set some rules. I don't want to spend money on something nice and get junk." etc. etc.

For me I look at what ever I "give" in a cache or a present for some occasion it's just that a gift. My pleasure is thinking somebody got some pleasure out of my gift. (You can change gift to swag item if you like). If at some point I find something neat, I consider it a bonus.

If you want to leave something that has very little monatary value but could have a lot of desirability, leave something that you made. I leave a "Byron's Famous Stump Pin". It's has very little monatary value. It's made by me without spending a huge amount of time making them. I consider each and every one a gift from me to whom ever should find it. Key word "gift". I don't expect anything in return. As a result what I get in return money can't buy.

Byron

so when you leave one in a cache you don't take anything, right?

July 10, 2005

Last time I stopped by there was a used deck of cards inside .

Oh Darn, I meant to leave a urnial mint too.

July 10, 2005

This is a gripe that's been around since people started exchanging gifts.
The whine goes just the same. "I gave so and so a real nice present and this all I got in return. whine whine whine."

"We need to set some rules. I don't want to spend money on something nice and get junk." etc. etc.

For me I look at what ever I "give" in a cache or a present for some occasion it's just that a gift. My pleasure is thinking somebody got some pleasure out of my gift. (You can change gift to swag item if you like). If at some point I find something neat, I consider it a bonus.

If you want to leave something that has very little monatary value but could have a lot of desirability, leave something that you made. I leave a "Byron's Famous Stump Pin". It's has very little monatary value. It's made by me without spending a huge amount of time making them. I consider each and every one a gift from me to whom ever should find it. Key word "gift". I don't expect anything in return. As a result what I get in return money can't buy.

Byron

so when you leave one in a cache you don't take anything, right?

I'm obviously not him, but I'll bet in most cases, you're right. You can tell by his posts that he's not abotu the swag.

Why don't you email us all your home address Dave, and when those of us who just don't care find something cool or valuable in a cache we can send it to you to make up for all the lame caches you've found. Maybe you'll sleep better at night knowing all your effort to retrieve swag wasn't wasted.

July 10, 2005

I make it a habit of putting a note in my log something along the lines that there is "nice loot" in the cache. And then I always trade even or up. I like positive reinforcement.

July 11, 2005

I had a cache I named Nice Swag Cache. The description said the idea was to thank the local cachers who hide caches for us to find, and asked traders to keep the spirit of gratitude in mind when trading. The cache is still there, but 3 months after I placed it I renamed it, since the nice swag was all gone.

cache page

It's OK. A few of the cachers I wanted to 'thank' got nice items, as intended. Since trading 'nice' is subjectve, and means different hings to kids and moms and truckers and programmers, I knew it was only a matter of time. Still, I was surprised at how little time it took. It's still an excellent location, and the hike itself is trade enough for a deserving cacher.

July 12, 2005

This topic does seem to come up allot. Obviously then it is an issue with more than just a select few.

Why must people be berated and called belittling names? I like to hike, I like to see new places AND I like to trade. Some of us do, some of us don't, is any one group better than the other?

I found a cache recently filled with what looked like someone’s junk mail. Being bothered by this does not make me greedy, or 'in it' for the wrong reasons or a whiner.

July 12, 2005

Why don't you email us all your home address Dave,

nah, I will snail mail it to you after you email me your home address :lol:

July 12, 2005

Since so many people seem dissatisfied with the usual quality of trade items in caches, I was wondering how people would react to owners declaring their caches to be nice swag caches.

The problem will be that one cacher thinks his golf ball & McToy are an equal trade for your $20 item. It happens a lot.

We're probably all somewhat guilty of it one time or another in someone else's eyes.

Everybody thinks a little different.

I believe the best outlook would be to look around & say "hey, crappy cache but I've got most of my fingers & toes plus I was able to wake up this morning on the green side of the grass & arrive at this cache so maybe everything's not so bad after all". :lol:

July 12, 2005

This is a gripe that's been around since people started exchanging gifts.
The whine goes just the same. "I gave so and so a real nice present and this all I got in return. whine whine whine."

"We need to set some rules. I don't want to spend money on something nice and get junk." etc. etc.

For me I look at what ever I "give" in a cache or a present for some occasion it's just that a gift. My pleasure is thinking somebody got some pleasure out of my gift. (You can change gift to swag item if you like). If at some point I find something neat, I consider it a bonus.

If you want to leave something that has very little monatary value but could have a lot of desirability, leave something that you made. I leave a "Byron's Famous Stump Pin". It's has very little monatary value. It's made by me without spending a huge amount of time making them. I consider each and every one a gift from me to whom ever should find it. Key word "gift". I don't expect anything in return. As a result what I get in return money can't buy.

Byron

so when you leave one in a cache you don't take anything, right?

Mostly. Like I said above, if I find something I would like to have, I take it. I don't take just to take. I leave because I hope somebody will enjoy what I leave.

I don't worry about what other people do when it comes trading. I can't control it, so why fuss about it?

Byron

2.5k · July 12, 2005

Actually, I have a themed cache, and it's doing well... Of course, most cachers in Middle Tennessee don't trade.....

Seriously, though, those who have traded have stayed on theme, the cache stays nice and dry, it's a nice find to get, and best of all, it's on the Middle Tennesee Greatest Hits List.

The key is to decide between personal value and monitary value.

2.6k · July 12, 2005

I recently found a cache where the owner had really gone out of his way to stock it well. It was a big tupperware with a bunch of nice, new stuff in it, mostly in blisterpacks. It obviously cost him a pretty penny to set it up. Unfortunately, it's a big plastic box in the woods, under an unnatural pile of sticks. It was wet inside. Not really, really wet...just ordinary condensation from the environment. The cache had only been out a few months, and it was already picking up that wet dog smell.

I felt bad for him (though I consoled myself with the probability that he doesn't check it often and doesn't know). I dabbed it out as best I could and traded for something. There's a limit to how nuts you can get with stuff left in the outdoors in all weather.

July 12, 2005

Speaking of crappy stuff that you find in caches...how about all those so called "signature items" that are unlaminated pieces of trash??? I'm not talking about the business cards that some people can barely afford because I understand that. I'm talking about the religious literature that has been filling up local caches. Geocaching is not the place to proselytize(sp?). I can't believe that some people would fill up otherwise cool caches with this stuff. Geocachers don't need saving...unless they forgot to mark where the car was!

July 12, 2005

I hate to say this but it seems like an invitation to the 1% who try to ruin things to do you bad.

I REALLY hated to say that.

But it is true.

July 13, 2005

As newbies to the geo-caching world, my husband and I were wondering what to put in the caches. I went to Target and went to the $1 section and found some really cool keychains I thought I wouldn't mind finding. After our first few caches we discovered that these were pretty good compared to what we were finding. Then we went to the $1 store. We picked up the following (each for a dollar, small enough for most caches): Mini radio, 2-pack of mini cards, flashlight, clip watch, a few other similar things. After doing a few more caches, we discovered that what we had was way better than most of what we found. And nothing cost us more than $1! We don't really care that there was nothing we wanted in most caches, we just left something behind anyway. We're just wondering why others can't do the same smart shopping we did? You've already spent the money on a GPS, can't you afford to spend another $1?

July 13, 2005

The target dollar spot is great! We got some of those key chains and some compasses. We also have a box of coins from when my grandparents went on a tour of the world in the early 70s. It's frustrating because when you complain or vent about the trash that you find it gets turned into you being greedy or looking for some high$ items, like you said dollar store stuff can be great to find, it's the trash and broken stuff that bothers us.

July 13, 2005

like you said dollar store stuff can be great to find, it's the trash and broken stuff that bothers us.

Yup,

And the best thing to do to stop is come to forums and whine about it. Must work since so many seem to do that.

July 14, 2005

Thank you Byron, I guess the best way to stop people from 'whining' is to come to the forums and whine about it.

July 14, 2005

Thank you Byron, I guess the best way to stop people from 'whining' is to come to the forums and whine about it.

That doesn't seem to work either, does it?

July 14, 2005

Is it any wonder more GeoCachers don't utilize these forums?

2.5k · July 14, 2005

I'm talking about the religious literature that has been filling up local caches. Geocaching is not the place to proselytize(sp?). I can't believe that some people would fill up otherwise cool caches with this stuff.

Around here, even some of the signature items are like that... One person uses the Get Out Of Hell Free cards, another person I found used more space on his sig card with bible verses than he did with caching or personal information.

I find it annoying at best. Religious and Political propoganda does *NOT* belong in caches. (Note that I'm not opposed to religious trade items... It's when the flyers say you need to be saved or some equally annoying bit that I get upset) I know of at least three cachers in my area who aren't Christian.

July 14, 2005

I know of at least three cachers in my area who aren't Christian.

Lion food?

July 14, 2005

Is it any wonder more GeoCachers don't utilize these forums?

I thought it might be a literacy problem.

Or lack thereof.

Truthfully I think there are a lot of thinskinned people out there who get their feelings hurt too easily.

Like me. Boooo Hooooo.

July 14, 2005

Religious and Political propoganda does *NOT* belong in caches.

Would religious or political propaganda be okay if it were of the same beliefs you shared? Just curious?

2.6k · July 14, 2005

Religious and Political propoganda does *NOT* belong in caches.

Would religious or political propaganda be okay if it were of the same beliefs you shared? Just curious?

Well, I'm not the person you address, but it wouldn't be alright with me. I traded out any election-related stuff I ran across last year, because I thought the presidential contest in the US was way too ouchy a theme for a nice little game like geocaching. And, believe me, I had an opinion on the matter.

Religion and politics. There's a reason Mama told you not to discuss them at the dinner table.

July 14, 2005

Religion and politics. There's a reason Mama told you not to discuss them at the dinner table.

One time, in a episode of "All in the Family", Gloria had to remind Mike (the meat-head) that he knows that he shouldnt discuss religion, politics or anything else with Archie.

July 14, 2005

I thought it might be a literacy problem.
Or lack thereof.

Truthfully I think there are a lot of thinskinned people out there who get their feelings hurt too easily.

Like me. Boooo Hooooo.

In my line of work, and being prior military (ok ok Air Force) trust me I am not thin skinned!

Having said that, I don't have much patience for some of the B.S. that goes on in these forums, whether it be directed at myself or others. (watch the 'if you don't like it go away and don't whine' posts come like thunder) I won't be bullied.

July 14, 2005

I have several caches, and there doesn't seem to be any pattern to which ones end up full of junk, and which ones don't. Even my puzzle cache, with its tough to locate nature and relatively few hits hasn't escaped collecting junk. On the other hand, I have two caches, not really near each other, that get frquent visits and ALWAYS seem to have nice trades in them when I do a maint. run. Odd.

And while I do my best to stay out of the "politics" of this forum, I am suffering a toothache and in a bad mood today, so.... I don't think it's necessary to call posters "whiners" for making an observation, suggestion, or even a complaint. It just isn't nice, or necessary. And, I know you don't care, and will probably tell me so - and that's fine - but I think many people, especially new people (or not) avoid this forum because many people seem to have forgotten their manners.

JMHO.

2.6k · July 14, 2005

And while I do my best to stay out of the "politics" of this forum, I am suffering a toothache and in a bad mood today, so.... I don't think it's necessary to call posters "whiners" for making an observation, suggestion, or even a complaint. It just isn't nice, or necessary. And, I know you don't care, and will probably tell me so - and that's fine - but I think many people, especially new people (or not) avoid this forum because many people seem to have forgotten their manners.

Ibuprofen. Seriously. It's the best thing going for toothache. My dad prefers it over Percocet.

Or three fingers of gin. That'll do the trick, too.

Or both.

Woohoo! Party at CL's house! We can all get tiddly on gin and ibuprofen and empty our swag-bags into a big pile on the floor and...and...swap swag. Naughty!

July 14, 2005

I'm on advil #6 for the day.

Gin. Hmmm, maybe I'll start drinking!

A swag party at my house sounds like a FABULOUS idea! All the "whiners" who would appreciate some decent goodies can come on over!

24.7k · July 14, 2005

... Religious and Political propoganda does *NOT* belong in caches. (Note that I'm not opposed to religious trade items... It's when the flyers say you need to be saved or some equally annoying bit that I get upset) I know of at least three cachers in my area who aren't Christian.

As a sig item they are valid. I know cachers who are Wiccan, Christian, and Neo No Clue (since they belive in a higher power but don't know what that means) and so on.

As for trade value, unless it's an I Like Ike button I tend to agree they don't have much value. Though a Salvation Army Pin from 1929 would be cool as well. It's all relative.

18.9k · July 14, 2005

I trade with stuff from Dollar stores all the time - new stuff that cost me $1 to $3. No matter what I find in the cache - I always leave something - new and nice. I too have tried the "nice" cache approach and as long as I get out there and take the junk and add new nice stuff it works!!

July 14, 2005

I've been to at least 3 of your caches, Starbrand, and all 3 were stocked quite nicely. That last one was so well done that we added a fair bit more new items to it to be sure it stays stocked well.

Our caches haven't been out very long - I think the first one we placed is less than 2 months old - so seeing as we live in a fairly remote area where caching isn't as popular as other areas there has not been much turnover. Tonight we are placing a few more caches (just got all of the next batch good to go last night) including a regular sized and large sized cache. They both have items that I consider to be pretty decent, so it'll be interesting to see how long they last in decent shape. I'm working hard to get a puzzle cache up that I intend to have a mix between true higher dollar items and outdated, but collector worthy items (think I even have a brand new in the box Apple ][c in my garage somewhere - not sure if that is collectable or just trash.) My biggest problem with that one isn't going to be cachers not trading well enough - I expect that to happen. I just don't want a hiker that stumbles off the trail to accidentily find it and plunder it.

My other hang up on that cache is that it will be the final cache in a series and it won't make much sense to place it before I get the others done. I have the puzzle pretty much ready to go and it'll only take an hour to fill a container and not much time to get it placed, but I have a lot of work to do to get the other caches done since some are only in the early conceptual stages. Hmm... I seem to have strayed way off topic... oh well, back to the planning (war) room.

22k · July 14, 2005

declaring their caches to be nice swag caches.

Perhaps if there was only one trade item in the cache and the trader would have to post what they left, then the owner could decide if the dropped item was up to par. (you can't leave that up to the cacher).

Then if it wasn't up to par the owner could......hmmmmm.

Well ultimately, with the worst case scenario the owner would have to restock the cache.

I guess I'm not sure how with would be different then the current practice. I don't think policing the cache would help much. Ya ain't got that much control in the first place.

Edited July 14, 2005 by BlueDeuce

11.3k · July 14, 2005

Well, for caches with nice swag, this one can't be beat.

Just check out what is in it now . . . :laughing:

July 15, 2005

Ok, so the cache idiosyncratic linked to stipulates 'no trade no find' could a cache owner stipulate that you absolutley had to list what you traded (TNLN not an issue) if not log doesn't count?

I think accountability goes a long way. I do understand tho that there are logs out there seemingly admitting a bad trade.... it is very subjective and that is a can of worms, I'm more trying to get at the issue of those who know that they are downtrading.

I'm not looking for the usual fight on this topic, just looking to discuss this thank you.

Edited July 15, 2005 by teamjack&birdie

2.1k · July 15, 2005

This topic does seem to come up allot. Obviously then it is an issue with more than just a select few.

Why must people be berated and called belittling names? I like to hike, I like to see new places AND I like to trade. Some of us do, some of us don't, is any one group better than the other?

I found a cache recently filled with what looked like someone’s junk mail. Being bothered by this does not make me greedy, or 'in it' for the wrong reasons or a whiner.

THANK YOU !!!

And if you READ the issue, I believe that you will find that it is NOT that we can't find good swag for the most part -- it is that WE place these caches with NICE stuff and within a week or two they are full of garbage -

Placing good caches takes a lot of time, a lot of work, and in some cases they ain't cheap either! Now, we understand that what we put in there are 'gifts' and we can hope that the 'gifts' continue past the first 10 people to find the cache. I say 10 because I generally put about 10 items in a cache to start it off. Come back in a couple weeks to check it out (or after someone gives me the heads up that it is full of geo-junk) and what I find is pretty discouraging. It is one thing to FIND a cache full of rocks, marbles, golf ball, wet baseball cards and the like, most of us are pretty used to that - but when it is your own caches it gets old. I have a feeling this has a lot to do with the multitude of micros out there - no room for swag - no sweat - small - easy to hide - etc.

So for those of you out there who hate micros and don't want to trade nice - listen up ...

cc\

Edited July 15, 2005 by CompuCash

2.1k · July 15, 2005

I trade with stuff from Dollar stores all the time - new stuff that cost me $1 to $3. No matter what I find in the cache - I always leave something - new and nice. I too have tried the "nice" cache approach and as long as I get out there and take the junk and add new nice stuff it works!!

good on ya!

The Dollar store is great for stocking caches with neat stuff -

bought 10 really neat LED flashlights - was very surprised to find them for $1 as you can pay up to $10 for very similar items -

cc\

9.5k · July 15, 2005

Ok, so the cache idiosyncratic linked to stipulates 'no trade no find' could a cache owner stipulate that you absolutley had to list what you traded (TNLN not an issue) if not log doesn't count?

I think accountability goes a long way. I do understand tho that there are logs out there seemingly admitting a bad trade.... it is very subjective and that is a can of worms, I'm more trying to get at the issue of those who know that they are downtrading.

I'm not looking for the usual fight on this topic, just looking to discuss this thank you.

Attempting to gain accountability is a good idea.

What you will find happening though, is anybody who finds a cache and signs the log book will invariably cry foul because they did find the cache and signed the log, which is the premise of being able to declare a find.

IF I were a downtrader (and I'm not), I would simply get around the rule by stating TNLN. There goes your attempt at gaining accountability.

So... if I was dumb enough to admit to taking that cool $5 item and traded with that hot wheel car, a couple of e-mails go by and I still have the neat swag but now there are at least two angry people. Is it worth the extra angst? Only you can weigh the balance of that for yourself.

Me? I'd rather not go to that extra trouble and worry over it. That just makes the game too serious for my taste. I'll do my cache maintenance, make sure the contents are dry and in good condition and not worry about the value or the content of the trinkets unless they go awry of the provided guidelines.

Now back to that $5 trade and the hot wheel car... that car may not be monetarily valued the same as the $5 trade, but you look at a kid's face when he pulls that car out and it becomes priceless. As you noted, value is subjective and that kid's subjectivity made that car more valuable than the more expensive swag by the sheer pleasure of finding it. Also, if someone was savvy enough, it might be that rare hot wheel car that makes it a collector's item thereby increasing the value of the trade not originally perceived. Golf balls are the same way. 60 years ago, that leather skinned feather filled ball was trash. Today? They're collectibles and highly valued even when ripped apart.

So, if you're going to go after accountability, you first must agree upon matching subjective value or monetary value. That alone will start flame wars because now you're trying to tell someone how to play "their" game.

July 15, 2005

Yes, I know (as stated) that it is subjectable. So you’re saying that finders would downtrade and then so as not to be accountable would log tnln? Hmm, I think I have to agree with you (yikes) on that one, I guess maybe now I'm thinking of... how to word this, um what keeps popping into my head is 'keeping honest people honest' in that if there are those out there actively and consciously downtrading, well nothing will stop them, but maybe being required to log the trade would get those who just don't bother to think about it... well, thinking about it.

Edited July 15, 2005 by teamjack&birdie

9.5k · July 15, 2005

I'm afraid the only thing you will legitimately be able to enforce, TNLN not withstanding, is to have the trades logged with the find or have the finds deleted and not worry about the fact the cache will degrade over time.

July 15, 2005

Exactly!! It would be an interesting experiment. I am hopefully placing my first cache this weekend, I have decided to make it a members only cache, and I am now going to consider this approach, however it is my first cache so maybe I should just keep it simple .

Designated "nice Swag" Caches?

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